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Old 16th November 2017, 02:54 PM   #401
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For more hilarity, check out Fuiava's Facebook page:
Quote:
Some of the crew spoke broken down English (Jen was on the bridge using the radio and probably didn't notice) and we're not sure if all typhoons are classified as tsunamis.
You can't make this stuff up.

Appel's Facebook page is also interesting. She's been posting videos documenting the alleged damage the Taiwanese fisherboat did, but in fact, the videos show that there was no such damage. Also, you'd think that a dominatrix would be better at tying knots.

ETA: and here's a picture of the boat, out of the water, before the trip. Where's the 6 ton fiberglass and the 2 feet keel extension she claimed she added?
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Old 22nd November 2017, 09:27 AM   #402
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Originally Posted by The Guardian
And their story has received so much attention that some of Appel’s family members in Texas don’t want her back home...

She said she left her wallet on Sea Nymph and was running out of money. Her family doesn’t want to talk to her...

She was also irritated at the bad press. “People think I’m making a movie or a book. I haven’t signed anything yet.”...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-rescue-hawaii
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Old 22nd November 2017, 10:55 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post

From the link;
Quote:
But, they said, a “force 11” storm hit off the coast of Hawaii hours after they left, breaking their rigging and setting them drifting. Appel, 48, said she spent the early nights of the storm braced on the floor of the cockpit in her foul weather gear, muscling the wheel to angle the boat into waves so tall and black that they blended into the sky. They said the storm flooded their engine.
No sails. No engine.

Anyone who has ever handled a boat can tell you that this means it wouldn't matter how much "muscling the wheel" she did. If you have no steerage way (no speed to give the rudder any purchase) then you can't do any steering. At all. Wiggling the rudder around will do only that, wiggle it, and nothing else.

Her partner (passenger?) had this to say about their "Force 11" storm. She slept through it.
Quote:
Fuiava, who had never handled a boat before the trip, said she survived the storm by sleeping below.
“I’m a heavy sleeper,” said Fuiava,
Force 11 is one step below a hurricane on the Beaufort Scale. 56-63 knot winds (64-72 mph), 37-52 ft. waves. You'd be hard-pressed to sleep through it on an aircraft carrier. A fifty foot sailboat would be tossed around like a stick. You'd need to be lashed into your bunk to keep from being thrown out of it and bounced all over the cabin like a handball.

Her defense?
Quote:
Storm records, it was pointed out, showed no big storm off Hawaii the day they left. In response, Appel produced an email from the coast guard confirming that there was a small craft advisory predicting waves of 7-10ft.
That would suggest breezes of about 20 knots. This is what would be best described in blue water sailing as 'good sailing weather'. If you can't cope with that you shouldn't leave the harbor, much less sight of land.

I used to love weather like that when I sailed off of Shackleford Banks and Cape Lookout, and that was on a 16 ft. Hobie Cat.

**************************************

And she's running out of money because she left her wallet on the boat?

She had nothing but cash? No credit cards? No Traveller's Checks? And she forgot the cash?

Who goes on a months long international trip with nothing but the cash they are carrying? And then forgets it?

**************************************
Quote:
She described using rope to rig a self-steering system
It takes more than a rope to rig a self-steering system. Here's a good short article on the topic.

It can be done, but it is non-trivial, and since she already demonstrated that she isn't enough of a sailor to have rigged that boat to sail even with its "damaged" mast, which wouldn't have been particularly difficult, it doesn't seem likely that she could cope with this.

For non-sailors, it isn't just a matter of tying off the wheel.

Of course, the whole point is moot, because if she couldn't use the sails or the engine then she had no steerage way to begin with, and a self-steering rig wouldn't have had anything to steer anyway.

**************************************

Every time she talks about this trip she just makes it worse. She really ought to learn to shut up and quit digging.
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Last edited by quadraginta; 22nd November 2017 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 22nd November 2017, 10:59 AM   #404
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Force 11 is one step below a hurricane on the Beaufort Scale. 56-63 knot winds (64-72 mph), 37-52 ft. waves. You'd be hard-pressed to sleep through it on an aircraft carrier. A fifty foot sailboat would be tossed around like a stick. You'd need to be lashed into your bunk to keep from being thrown out of it and bounced all over the cabin like a handball.
Not to defend her, but I knew a girl who slept through a fire alarm, wouldn't wake up when shaken, and had to be carried outside, still asleep.
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Old 22nd November 2017, 11:03 AM   #405
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Not to defend her, but I knew a girl who slept through a fire alarm, wouldn't wake up when shaken, and had to be carried outside, still asleep.
I think you overdone the rohypnol.

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Old 22nd November 2017, 11:04 AM   #406
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Not to defend her, but I knew a girl who slept through a fire alarm, wouldn't wake up when shaken, and had to be carried outside, still asleep.

In an F11 she wouldn't have needed to be carried out. Just leave the cabin hatch open and sooner or later she would have been thrown out. After bouncing around the cabin for a while.
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Old 22nd November 2017, 11:06 AM   #407
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
I think you overdone the rohypnol.
Zip zop wop boopity bop!

But seriously, she's the one who told me that story. I had nothing to do with it. Honest.
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Old 22nd November 2017, 11:13 AM   #408
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Force 11 is absolutely absurd- I doubt they would have survived, and even if they did the boat would looked completely trashed. If they experienced anything it was a mild gale. Having been out briefly in gale force winds I understand how even this relatively common storm situation can be frightening and might lead one to exaggerate, but Force 11 is another beast entirely. Didn't they have some wind speed instruments on board, or be able to apply Beaufort's criteria to estimate the wind speed?

Well, their story is... curious. I wonder how much of it is just the result of "honest" exaggeration due to a very vivid imagination versus how much of it is intentionally made up.
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Old 22nd November 2017, 11:20 AM   #409
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"It was simpler on the ocean,” Appel said. “There you survive and everything is OK. Here, we’ve re-entered the Matrix – and we left the Matrix for a reason.”
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Old 22nd November 2017, 12:52 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Force 11 is absolutely absurd- I doubt they would have survived, and even if they did the boat would looked completely trashed. If they experienced anything it was a mild gale. Having been out briefly in gale force winds I understand how even this relatively common storm situation can be frightening and might lead one to exaggerate, but Force 11 is another beast entirely. Didn't they have some wind speed instruments on board, or be able to apply Beaufort's criteria to estimate the wind speed?

Well, their story is... curious. I wonder how much of it is just the result of "honest" exaggeration due to a very vivid imagination versus how much of it is intentionally made up.
And a decent sailor cuts the sails as the winds come up. Reef the main, then drop the main, then partially furl the jib until you have what is known as a "storm jib", giving you steerage way.

See a horizontal row of straps hanging on a mainsail? Those are for reefing. Lower the sail until you can tie them around the boom. You use a 'reefing hitch", aka a square knot. Might be a couple rows of them. I never had to do it, but was on the revenue cutter California when they did.
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Old 22nd November 2017, 02:30 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
And a decent sailor cuts the sails as the winds come up. Reef the main, then drop the main, then partially furl the jib until you have what is known as a "storm jib", giving you steerage way.

See a horizontal row of straps hanging on a mainsail? Those are for reefing. Lower the sail until you can tie them around the boom. You use a 'reefing hitch", aka a square knot. Might be a couple rows of them. I never had to do it, but was on the revenue cutter California when they did.
Exactly. Even better as the wind rises still higher: an ocean going sailboat should have a separate (small and tough) storm jib (since furling gear can always break) and perhaps even a boom-less storm tri-sail to replace the main. It is amazing the wind force under which a boat can still remain controllable using these kinds of reduced sail. It is also amazing just how small the bow of even a large sailboat seems under these conditions if you are the crew member sent there to take down the bigger jib sail and put up the smaller one! I found it pretty terrifying in only 30 knots of wind (no roller reefing in the racing boats I crewed on).

After that I've been told to try heaving to (for the non-sailors a way of setting the jib and rudder to stabilize the boat pointing into the wind and waves) or riding a sea anchor set from the bow.

Again for the non-sailors: the general idea is to retain as much control as possible and to avoid being set sideways to the waves so that a wave might roll the boat over or break right on top of the cockpit/cabin. Some sailors try the opposite of "running with the wind:" turning downwind and trying to keep the boat pointing away from the breaking waves, but this requires constant attention and a small error can slew the boat around into a "broach" (a wave crashes on you full force and rolls you around or over). Older, heavier boats run with the wind more stably than the more modern, lighter ones.

In any case there is no way the boat in the OP saw F11, even had such a storm been detected by the weather bureau (which was not).
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Old 22nd November 2017, 02:58 PM   #412
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She sounds in over her head, that's for sure.

My daughter has decent skills for near-shore sailing, she took courses at Community Boating in Boston for several summers, eventually getting her Helmsman and Jib ratings; but I wouldn't expect her to be ready for blue water/open ocean sailing.
I have a brother-in-law who owns a J-30 out of Salem, MA, and he keeps it near shore always; if he wants to sail to Martha's Vineyard or Nantucket he uses the Cape Cod Canal.
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Old 22nd November 2017, 03:29 PM   #413
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
From the link;No sails. No engine.

see above
This seems like a pretty good summary of the situation to me. I checked in hoping that the story had been sorted out by now. Guess not.

Reminds me a bit of the pilot who went down in the California High Sierra sometime after WWII. He hiked out. They couldn't find his plane and eventually a lot of skeptics claimed that his story was a hoax and eventually the authorities believed them and the man's life was hurt a great deal by the incident.

Long after he died some hikers found his plane roughly where he said it was. So skeptics aren't always right, but in this case I suspect the skeptics are.
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Old 22nd November 2017, 03:36 PM   #414
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Originally Posted by davefoc View Post
This seems like a pretty good summary of the situation to me. I checked in hoping that the story had been sorted out by now. Guess not.

Reminds me a bit of the pilot who went down in the California High Sierra sometime after WWII. He hiked out. They couldn't find his plane and eventually a lot of skeptics claimed that his story was a hoax and eventually the authorities believed them and the man's life was hurt a great deal by the incident.

Long after he died some hikers found his plane roughly where he said it was. So skeptics aren't always right, but in this case I suspect the skeptics are.
Yes, but as you say, there is a lot of evidence to contradict their story.

Although I suppose I have slept through lots of non-existent force 11 storms. Just not on a small boat.
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Old 22nd November 2017, 06:29 PM   #415
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Yes, but as you say, there is a lot of evidence to contradict their story.

Although I suppose I have slept through lots of non-existent force 11 storms. Just not on a small boat.
Hell, I've slept through several non-existent Class 5 typhoons and a non-existent 8.6 earthquake.
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Old 22nd November 2017, 08:48 PM   #416
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Hell, I've slept through several non-existent Class 5 typhoons and a non-existent 8.6 earthquake.

Ha. That's nothing.

I've slept through dozens of non-existent 'Dinosaur Killer' meteor strikes, a few non-existent supernovas, and a non-existent Heat Death of the Universe.

That last one was really boring. I couldn't keep awake for it.
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Old 23rd November 2017, 05:51 PM   #417
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Old 24th November 2017, 01:36 PM   #418
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V,dw. But I guess the truth came out?
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Old 28th November 2017, 01:33 PM   #419
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She's doing a weird GoFundMe for $50,000 to promote or force truth in the media. Or something like that. She says the media got so many things wrong about the story of their saga. Her description of the fund is a rambling mish-mash and I don't think she says what she will actually do with the money (which she won't get anyway)...

Originally Posted by Jennifer Appel
Please help us fund an immediate campaign to pursue the media who omitted and obfuscated the facts surrounding our excursion in the Pacific Ocean. They were given a more complete story and chose not to publish it preferring to spin a tale of ocean fearful bungling yachtswomen adrift and not smart enough to call for help until some happenstance fishermen came to save them. Assist us to nudge the media to play more fairly because the next person they might drag through the mud after a personal disaster by only telling selective pieces of a story could be you.

“Fake News” was already a subject of much conjecture prior to our leaving on May 3, 2017. Nearly six months is a considerable amount of time to compress into a few inches of copy or soundbites; however, they were given a more complete picture than what they chose to publish. At present, there are 157,000 different results in google search about our trip and not one that I have seen has provided an accurate account.

From Quarantine in Japan, I sent out clarifications when the first negative media spin occurred and yet.....

https://www.gofundme.com/truth-in-media
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Old 28th November 2017, 02:39 PM   #420
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
She's doing a weird GoFundMe for $50,000 to promote or force truth in the media. Or something like that. She says the media got so many things wrong about the story of their saga. Her description of the fund is a rambling mish-mash and I don't think she says what she will actually do with the money (which she won't get anyway)...
https://www.gofundme.com/truth-in-media

On the page she says she didn't use her EPIRB because using it in anything less than a true life-or-death emergency results in big fines and jail time. Is that true? If somebody's motor conks out or his sail blows loose (or whatever sails do), he's certainly in trouble even if he's not sinking. Would using the EPIRB really be a criminal offense? Or is she just misinformed?

Also, she claims that the spreader broke because it was improperly installed. Would that have been obvious at the beginning? I would think that if I was launching a trans-oceanic passage in a small sailboat, I would spend a few days close to shore just making sure everything worked. If she had done that would the problems have revealed themselves?

Also, what does she think she can do with "the media?" Sue somebody? Buy ads telling her story her way? Self-publishing a book? Or what?

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Old 28th November 2017, 02:59 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Would using the EPIRB really be a criminal offense? Or is she just misinformed?
Based on links in this thread, she was misinformed.
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Old 28th November 2017, 03:05 PM   #422
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Based on links in this thread, she was misinformed.
Based on links in this thread, you are being highly charitable.

Because of course, of you are drifting out of sight of land for several months, it's far more costly to alert the authorities to your exact position rather than a concerned friend or relative notify them and they search tens of thousands of square miles of ocean for you.
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Old 28th November 2017, 03:29 PM   #423
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Based on links in this thread, you are being highly charitable.
I'm usually a bit of a dick, so I have to balance that out somewhere.
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Old 28th November 2017, 03:35 PM   #424
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I'm usually a bit of a dick, so I have to balance that out somewhere.
Ah, misplaced charity. Understood.
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Old 28th November 2017, 03:41 PM   #425
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Based on links in this thread, you are being highly charitable.

Because of course, of you are drifting out of sight of land for several months, it's far more costly to alert the authorities to your exact position rather than a concerned friend or relative notify them and they search tens of thousands of square miles of ocean for you.
Sorry, but what do you mean? Absent a satellite phone, you can't contact friends.
ETA: here's what I think. They exaggerated the danger after the fact, though it might be consistent with their exaggerated fears. Given those fears, they should have used the EPIRB, but they didn't. This is mostly a matter of incompetence coupled with some exaggeration.

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Old 28th November 2017, 03:51 PM   #426
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Sorry, but what do you mean? Absent a satellite phone, you can't contact friends.
I think the assumption being that after some time your friends and family may report you as missing. Even though they have very little idea of your exact location.
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Old 28th November 2017, 04:04 PM   #427
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She's calling it (in the GoFundMe) 'an excursion'? Why not 'a three-hour tour' - at least she'd have a song to go with it...... "Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale....."
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Old 28th November 2017, 04:09 PM   #428
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I think the assumption being that after some time your friends and family may report you as missing. Even though they have very little idea of your exact location.
Maybe so. I'm not a cruiser. But I thought that Jimbob was suggesting the sailors should have contacted friends. That seemed implausible.
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Old 28th November 2017, 04:18 PM   #429
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
On the page she says she didn't use her EPIRB because using it in anything less than a true life-or-death emergency results in big fines and jail time. Is that true? If somebody's motor conks out or his sail blows loose (or whatever sails do), he's certainly in trouble even if he's not sinking. Would using the EPIRB really be a criminal offense? Or is she just misinformed?
Not quite but possibly a fine. Depends where your EPIRB is registered.

I'm open to correction, but in many countries you need a licence (radio operators) to use one. In the US that would be FCC? They can fine for improper use of a radio apparatus.

But I don't think you can get chucked in jail.

I think.
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Old 28th November 2017, 04:25 PM   #430
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Hell, I've slept through several non-existent Class 5 typhoons and a non-existent 8.6 earthquake.
I know you're joking, but I live in Northern California. I didn't feel the 1989 Quake at all. I was working at a hardware store, I asked why the World Series wasn't on, and everyone thought I was joking.
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Old 28th November 2017, 04:42 PM   #431
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
She's doing a weird GoFundMe for $50,000 to promote or force truth in the media. Or something like that. She says the media got so many things wrong about the story of their saga. Her description of the fund is a rambling mish-mash and I don't think she says what she will actually do with the money (which she won't get anyway)...




https://www.gofundme.com/truth-in-media
I can't say I'm surprised to see something like this.

It's cyber-assisted panhandling from what I've seen.
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Old 28th November 2017, 05:32 PM   #432
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
I can't say I'm surprised to see something like this.

It's cyber-assisted panhandling from what I've seen.
Cyber-assisted panhandling. Great meme.

I feel sorry for her. Great idea, bad execution.
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Old 28th November 2017, 06:47 PM   #433
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Not quite but possibly a fine. Depends where your EPIRB is registered.

I'm open to correction, but in many countries you need a licence (radio operators) to use one. In the US that would be FCC? They can fine for improper use of a radio apparatus.
No license is required.
You merely register the EPIRB giving your personal details, and most importantly, register the vessel that the EPRIB is attached to or used on.

In most countries, the boating areas where an EPIRB is compulsory also require the boat to have a radio. That, you do need a license to operate, and would be fined for not being licensed.

Talking to the local water police and coastguard here, most boaters do not get a radio license - the think is, "if I have to use it, i'm quite happy to pay the $200 fine for using an unlicensed radio when I get rescued.".
Quote:
But I don't think you can get chucked in jail.

I think.
Not even fined.
It is also very unlikely that you would even be billed for the rescue (ETA - i'm wrong on this).
If you're sailing in waters where radio and EPIRB are required, you probably have boat insurance anyway. If you don't - you deserve what you get.
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Old 28th November 2017, 07:25 PM   #434
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Also, she claims that the spreader broke because it was improperly installed. Would that have been obvious at the beginning? I would think that if I was launching a trans-oceanic passage in a small sailboat, I would spend a few days close to shore just making sure everything worked. If she had done that would the problems have revealed themselves?
Not necessarily. It would depend on what way it was incorrectly installed.

For example, the spreaders should be angled upwards (angle above the spreader between it and the mast less than 90°). Any of them are not, it would be obvious in even a cursory inspection.

However if, say, the spreader root fittings were marginally too narrow, this would not be easy to spot. Root fittings of insufficient width may cause the mast wall to collapse under the force exerted by a taut shroud. Such narrow fittings might not be a problem with a stronger (thicker walled) mast. Some masts have an internal compression tube running through the mast, which supports the spreader base. Other masts are made using two spliced extruded sleeves and the inner sleeve effectively doubles the mast wall thickness beneath the spreader. It might take a really skilled boatbuilder or very experienced sailor to look at the root fittings and decide if they are of sufficient width. It would require measurements to be taken, and some knowledge of the construction and specifications of the mast itself.
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Old 28th November 2017, 10:43 PM   #435
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I think the assumption being that after some time your friends and family may report you as missing. Even though they have very little idea of your exact location.
That was the assumption, yes.
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Old 28th November 2017, 11:07 PM   #436
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Well, they had water and a year's supply of food. The story can be true.
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Old 29th November 2017, 02:47 AM   #437
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
<snip>

Also, she claims that the spreader broke because it was improperly installed. Would that have been obvious at the beginning? I would think that if I was launching a trans-oceanic passage in a small sailboat, I would spend a few days close to shore just making sure everything worked. If she had done that would the problems have revealed themselves?

<snip?

Didn't she say she had spent a year or so getting it ready? Including (but not limited to) adding "tons" of fiberglass to reinforce the hull and extending the keel for more stability?

Going over the rigging and its anchor points and other hardware would be among the very first things to do.
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Old 29th November 2017, 03:34 AM   #438
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Originally Posted by smartcookie
Not necessarily. It would depend on what way it was incorrectly installed.

For example, the spreaders should be angled upwards (angle above the spreader between it and the mast less than 90°). Any of them are not, it would be obvious in even a cursory inspection.

However if, say, the spreader root fittings were marginally too narrow, this would not be easy to spot. Root fittings of insufficient width may cause the mast wall to collapse under the force exerted by a taut shroud. Such narrow fittings might not be a problem with a stronger (thicker walled) mast. Some masts have an internal compression tube running through the mast, which supports the spreader base. Other masts are made using two spliced extruded sleeves and the inner sleeve effectively doubles the mast wall thickness beneath the spreader. It might take a really skilled boatbuilder or very experienced sailor to look at the root fittings and decide if they are of sufficient width. It would require measurements to be taken, and some knowledge of the construction and specifications of the mast itself.

The boat in question was, according to the U.S.C.G. registry, a 37' Starratt & Jenks. Some doubt about the length seems to exist, as at least one writer has suggested that Starratt & Jenks doesn't make a 37', and has offered the opinion that it is a Starrat & Jenks 45, along with photos of other 45s to support that. Theory being that the wrong length was given to the U.S.C.G. for the registration.

At any rate, Starrats & Jenks has a long history of building blue water cruise and racing boats, and an excellent reputation. There is no reason to think that they would have improperly installed or reinforced the the mounts for the mast spreader on this one boat.

And the point is somewhat moot anyway, since even with a damaged spreader the boat would have been able to sail. Just under limited conditions.
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Old 29th November 2017, 04:07 AM   #439
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Didn't she say she had spent a year or so getting it ready? Including (but not limited to) adding "tons" of fiberglass to reinforce the hull and extending the keel for more stability?
Yes she did say that. And then two weeks ago, she posted this picture on Facebook, with the text "splash back into the water from the 4th haul out to finish the last modifications to the hull". Please tell me where that 6 ton of fiberglass went.

It's one litany of lies.
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Old 29th November 2017, 09:04 AM   #440
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Not quite but possibly a fine. Depends where your EPIRB is registered.

I'm open to correction, but in many countries you need a licence (radio operators) to use one. In the US that would be FCC? They can fine for improper use of a radio apparatus.

But I don't think you can get chucked in jail.

I think.
I don't need a license to use my marine radio. I can't imagine that I'd need a license for an EPIRB.

Perhaps I would face a fine for signaling it when not in danger, but surely a boat adrift could make the case that they were in danger.

I'm not saying that these sailors were lying. They seem to have exaggerated their predicament and still not used the EPIRB, which is odd at best. At this point, I'm willing to guess that incompetence explains their choices, but as a casual day sailor, I'm willing to be proved wrong. (I don't even own an EPIRB, since I don't leave populated areas where a radio suffices.)

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