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27th October 2017, 11:48 AM | #41 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Competent sailors (I'm not one) would have a bosun's seat for doing fixes on the mast at sea. This seat would be raised by the main halyard. I confess I'm not sure what you do if it's the halyard itself that's the problem.
One option might be to used the topping lift, but I don't know that the topping lift is adequate for this job. Of course, I wouldn't describe a jammed halyard as a "broken mast", but maybe the reporter got the terminology wrong or maybe the mast was clearly weakened to the point that it was dangerous to put load on it. A mast coming down under load can ruin your afternoon. |
27th October 2017, 12:10 PM | #42 |
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https://www.yahoo.com/gma/mariners-r...opstories.html
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27th October 2017, 12:40 PM | #43 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Mmm. Old yachtsman's (me) opinion:
- Any extensive use of engine over such distances unrealistic for a yacht that size (seems to be some 35 ft.). It simply can't carry enough fuel. - Once engine is lost, available power is limited. From the video it appears they have a solar panel off the stern. It is at most ½m2, so would provide max. 500 w at noon. - Transmitters carried on yachts this size would have limited power (under 100W) and far from optimal antenna conditions. This will not reach far in the middle of the pacific. - The mast is obviously not broken. - Assuming they lost GPS, for whatever reason, a skilled sailor would still be able to navigate to safety, provided he/she has instruments, solar height tables, and a reliable clock. - A sailboat of this type can sail on any course, given skillful handling (might have to tack). My conclusion, based on information available: Crew lacked backup skills. Once they lost their main power source and, presumably, GPS, they were unable to keep an even approximate course. Probably did not have a sextant and reliable clock or didn't know how to use it. They survived in good health due to a huge store of food and the possession of a water purifying system. Bottom line: Poor preparation for a voyage of a distance and on an ocean that should never be taken casually. At least they took plenty of supplies. Hans |
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27th October 2017, 12:46 PM | #44 |
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That's the weird part to me. 5+ months of food is a lot, way more than even most paranoid long distance Yachters carry.
The water situation vexes me also. Solar Stills don't generate that much and... I mean yeah it is technically possible that a mechanical or electrical desalinator functioned well enough to support 2 people and 2 dogs while almost literally every other piece of complex equipment broke but... those are some finicky devices (and anything this reliable would not be cheap) and a lot less forgiving than radios and GPSs and marine engines. It's possible, but that would be some luck. A scenario in which a small boat that doesn't look like it as a lot of money to throw around heads out to sea, everything that makes it so they could get back to land or contact help breaks/runs out but everything to keep them alive for 5 months doesn't... I mean I can write that story but it's not a very believable one. If the couple live on the boat I'd edge into slightly more believable territory, but not much. |
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27th October 2017, 12:54 PM | #45 |
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27th October 2017, 01:05 PM | #46 |
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27th October 2017, 01:15 PM | #47 |
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I've done recreational sailing and racing in San Francisco Bay, and some very limited coastal sailing. The story seems strange to me. The boat looks functional- in pretty good condition actually. Even if they damaged the jib or main (which is not claimed) they would at least had the other sail, and if going on a long ocean voyage, should have had a good number of backups (even bay sailing one typically has a suite of jibs and a backup main). Their progress might be slow but they still should have been able to do a few knots.
The statements I've read is that they got lost. This is odd too because if they lost the built-in electronics they certainly should have had backup navigation- you would have to be downright stupid not to. And they were planning ahead by packing so much food and a water maker. Up to recently people would learn celestial navigation as a backup to GPS (it is pretty easy to do noon sites to approximate latitude and longitude). But now instead of sextant navigation many sailors just pack several portable GPS units (or smart phones) and extra AA batteries in tightly sealed plastic bags as backup for any built-in GPS unit. What's the chance of four different GPS units all going bad at once? And if you only turn them on for a fix for 10 minutes each day a set of batteries will last a very long time. My guess is that there is much to this story we do not yet know. |
27th October 2017, 01:26 PM | #48 |
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The jib halyard would probably be strong enough to lift a boson's chair, although one would probably have to disassemble the jib furling gear to get to it. But if it was a fractional rig the height at which the jib halyard exits the mast might be too low to allow someone in the bosun's chair to get to the main halyard to unjam it (or to just bring it down to the deck if someone had let it go and it had zipped up to the top of the mast).
I've sailed with some very experienced and very strong sailors who have shimmied up masts without relying on bosun's chairs in emergency situations (using whatever mast fittings/shrouds, stays, etc they could employ). But hell no, I wouldn't try such a thing myself. |
27th October 2017, 01:41 PM | #49 |
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27th October 2017, 02:54 PM | #50 |
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27th October 2017, 03:53 PM | #51 |
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The distance from Hawaii to Tahiti is 4493 km (2371 nautical miles), and a typical yacht motoring speed is about 4 - 5 knots. so motoring 24/7 would take between 20 and 25 days.
This is an ideal estimate, assuming no adverse weather or ocean currents, and strong cross or head winds. The type of motor used in yachts like this usually a low speed "chugger", more often than not, a diesel as they are low maintenance, they have less to go wrong and are cheaper to run than a petrol. If a motor like this is in good condition and well maintained, it should have no problem running continuously for the 500 to 600 hours required to do the job. My neighbour has a 32 ft yacht, its motoring engine is an 8hp Yanmar diesel that consumes about 1 litre/hr running at 2500 rpm (I just asked him this morning) so on that basis, he would need at least 600 litres of diesel (the equivalent of 3 x 205 litre drums). His on board tank is 750 litres and he said he would not attempt such a journey without another two 205 litre drums to add to his reserve. |
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27th October 2017, 04:38 PM | #52 |
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Not a sailor, but I'm pretty sure I could tell by the position of Polaris that I had not crossed the equator and was, therefore, not anywhere near Tahiti.
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27th October 2017, 05:57 PM | #53 |
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I'd really like to hear how simple was the problem with the main engine. Maybe one tank dry, knot know how to switch tanks? Or heard on the dock as they left "The tanks is full, Who needs reserves. let's go to Tahiti!" Sounds like they could be that inept.
Examples: I sailed San Diego /San Francisco, both ways. Two different yachts, two different owners. One way, there was no working bilge pump when I came aboard. Nor any lights above deck. Sailing in the shipping lanes. Other way, the little diesel lost power. Captain was happy to motor from Catalina to S.D. at idle. I crawled below, and pulled the throttle cable back into it's clamp. On a 3rd trip, the crew didn't invite me. Engine wouldn't start off Long Beach, needed a tow in. Loose battery connections cost them $1,000. I think scrambled eggs on a visor denotes Moron. |
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27th October 2017, 06:03 PM | #54 |
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I wonder if the Coast Guard will investigate for possible Ineptitude on the Briney Deep?
Any notes of their experience? Did they sail a first leg, California to Hawaii? |
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27th October 2017, 06:31 PM | #55 |
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its my understanding that the rigging was damaged, not the mast. The bolt holding the spreader to the mast bent after that first gnarly storm. They also lost a cell phone overboard the very first day. The article in the post says that Appel, the captain, had prepared for two and a half years, and had sailed regularly for the last ten. You can buy a nice Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon for 600 bucks, sounds like they would have been found pretty quick.
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27th October 2017, 07:09 PM | #56 |
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27th October 2017, 10:42 PM | #57 |
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Did anybody report them missing? Any evidence that they were?
I'm bored and feeling lucky, so I'm gonna call hoax on this story. What the heck. |
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28th October 2017, 01:23 AM | #58 |
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People can be out of contact for a long time, before anybody reports it.
In recent non-nautical news, two people over here have just been charged with the murder of a woman (they were apparently her carers) who had not been seen by anyone else since 1999. The alarm was only raised a year ago. It's a weird case: she did have family. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-41781297 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-41679631 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-scot...-disappearance http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-38156376 |
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28th October 2017, 01:34 AM | #59 |
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A lot of information in this article in the Guardian newspaper:
'I've never sailed': women rescued at sea admit they weren't properly prepared Jennifer Appel and Tasha Fuiava had planned to sail from Hawaii to Taihiti, but Fuiava had never sailed before
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28th October 2017, 01:47 AM | #60 |
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Does anyone know what becomes of the boat in this situation? I presume it wasn't taken in tow by the USN, but surely it wouldn't just be allowed to drift around empty, as a potential hazard to shipping? One of the crew talked about "hoping to recover it one day".
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28th October 2017, 02:02 AM | #61 |
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28th October 2017, 02:08 AM | #62 |
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Storms, broken mast, no engine, going through 12 months food supply in half that time, fixing a broken water purifier, fearing death every night, shark attacks, losing phone on first day and so on.
Am I being too cynical in thinking that this is a book deal in the making and maybe even a film? I'd be happy to put myself in that much "danger" if I was angling for a multi million dollar deal. Those two woman and their dogs are in the rudest of health and don't seem, at this point in time, to be suffering from the mental strain of facing death every day (according to them) for five months. Talking about film, is there any footage from on-board and, if so, has it hit the net yet? I'm finding the loss of the mobile phone suspicious simply because, if I was out and about with anybody I know, and I mean anybody, and said, "Oops I've lost my phone!". They would certainly reply, "Don't worry, I've got mine." |
28th October 2017, 02:11 AM | #63 |
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28th October 2017, 02:26 AM | #64 |
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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28th October 2017, 02:26 AM | #65 |
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So the likeliest scenario is that some Taiwanese fisherman gets a bit of a bonanza if he can get a line on board?
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28th October 2017, 03:10 AM | #66 |
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I believe there are marine salvage firms who monitor situations worldwide (looking for somewhat bigger fish to be fair) and make millions. They even have a Union.
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28th October 2017, 03:54 AM | #67 |
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Not entirely, under Maritime Law the Salvor is entitled to a reward that is commensurate with the value of what was salvaged. If whatever is salvaged is insured then the Insurance Company will have a claim on it and if they think it is worth it they usually will do this while making the salvors a payment for their efforts in covering it.
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28th October 2017, 04:15 AM | #68 |
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That's if it's ever seen again. There are apparently thousands and thousands of containers floating around that have fallen overboard.
Occasionally some unlucky mariner hits one. |
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28th October 2017, 04:30 AM | #69 |
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Thanks, I knew I wasn't bang on with my info so thanks for clarifying.
You should, if you haven't already seen it, look out for "All is Lost" starring Robert Redford. Its a very, very good film made better when you know that the, then, 77 year old Redford did all his own stunts. |
28th October 2017, 04:35 AM | #70 |
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28th October 2017, 04:49 AM | #71 |
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Interesting article on the making of it. Longtime Redford fan, comes across as a decent guy and a serious pro. Movie now on Amazon list for later.
Thanks. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/f...ied-to-me.html
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28th October 2017, 07:42 AM | #72 |
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As I recall, the movie raised some questions not much different from the ones here. The Redford character was portrayed as an experienced sailor, even capable of making his own hull repairs at sea. His boat was modern, relatively large and obviously expensive. Yet when his radio was damaged, he didn't have a backup. He didn't have a satphone or emergency beacons. When he needed to break out his flares and raft, he had to read the instructions. And he was rescued after he had been adrift in his raft for only a few days. Real sailors found a lot to sneer at.
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28th October 2017, 07:51 AM | #73 |
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So what's your theory? They were in fact found adrift in a disabled boat thousands of miles from shipping lanes without basic emergency equipment. You think they planned it? You think they sailed there and sabotaged their boat? You think somebody towed them there and left them? You think the Navy was in on it? Or what? ....
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28th October 2017, 08:14 AM | #74 |
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28th October 2017, 08:15 AM | #75 |
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People set out poorly prepared. It happens all the time. Of course we can't rule out that the events were staged, but to propose that concept at this point is rather absurd.
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28th October 2017, 08:18 AM | #76 |
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As an aside.
Some experienced yacht dudes were telling me that the cheapest place in the world to buy a used sailing yacht is Hawaii because ( apparently) there's lots of people who want to live the dream and spend their retirement years cruising the South Pacific. Apparently, after making the crossing from California to Hawaii a significant number of these people abandon those plans and dreams after experiencing the reality of an ocean crossing. |
28th October 2017, 08:22 AM | #77 |
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28th October 2017, 08:27 AM | #78 |
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28th October 2017, 08:29 AM | #79 |
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28th October 2017, 08:46 AM | #80 |
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Hilited: That needs to be revised. Where they were heading? No major shipping lanes between Hawaii and Tahiti. But where they were found? Any point 1500 km off the Japanese coast is a major shipping lane.
Not that it effects the story since the fools would've been ten times worse off if they had the thing steered correctly, but it turns out that that part is a tad of hyperbole. |
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