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Tags defamation cases , lawsuits , media criticism , Nathan Phillips , Nick Sandmann , protest incidents , racism charges

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Old 26th August 2020, 04:13 AM   #2481
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It was painful listening to Sandmann's speech, due to the extent that the things he said were correct.

The widespread, knee-jerk responses that vilified him was a gift to Trump -- a gift that we saw opened last night.
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Old 26th August 2020, 07:11 AM   #2482
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First Amendment freedoms

When Mr. Sandmann spoke about his vilification, I could not disagree with him; regrettably, some people never changed their perspective: The Daily Kos wrote, "His claim to fame, as is almost always the case in Trump’s modern GOP, was being an ******* to an American Indian protester."

When Mr. Sandmann painted President Trump as a champion of First Amendment freedoms, I found myself strongly in disagreement.
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Old 26th August 2020, 07:27 AM   #2483
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
When Mr. Sandmann spoke about his vilification, I could not disagree with him; regrettably, some people never changed their perspective: The Daily Kos wrote, "His claim to fame, as is almost always the case in Trump’s modern GOP, was being an ******* to an American Indian protester."

When Mr. Sandmann painted President Trump as a champion of First Amendment freedoms, I found myself strongly in disagreement.
Sandmann leaning into becoming a right wing pundit.

The media definitely did him a disservice, and as much as he seems like a smug little ****, he had a real point about how he got screwed.

Surprisingly literally no-one, he's trying to leverage this incident into becoming some kind of right wing media darling.
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Old 26th August 2020, 08:07 AM   #2484
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Surprisingly literally no-one, he's trying to leverage this incident into becoming some kind of right wing media darling.
It's not only not surprising, it's perfectly sensible. The right wing media stuck up for him. The left wing media tried to destroy him. Why wouldn't he want to keep company with those who took his side?
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Old 26th August 2020, 08:11 AM   #2485
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It's not only not surprising, it's perfectly sensible. The right wing media stuck up for him. The left wing media tried to destroy him. Why wouldn't he want to keep company with those who took his side?
He's always going to be a right wing hero, but so explicitly tying himself to Trump seems like a risk.
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Old 26th August 2020, 09:53 AM   #2486
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Walking a few steps in his moccasins

My recollection of Mr. Sandmann's speech is that he brought up the First Amendment and also brought up objective reporting, as well as discussing being canceled. I agree about the need for careful, objective reporting. The reporting on the Phillips drumming incident was lazy, and the commentary was poor (and has not always gotten better, as the Daily Kos demonstrated).

Freedom of expression is a little trickier. If canceling includes calling for someone to be shunned, fired, or similar, then the cancelers are within their first amendment rights. However, they are not adhering to Archibald Cox's suggestion (in response to protesters at Harvard circa 1973-74) that the antidote for bad speech is more speech. If Mr. Sandmann's point was that no one should be shunned, shamed, or worse for wearing a hat with a political slogan, then I am willing to travel a few steps with him in that regard.

His defense of President Trump with respect to freedom of expression and freedom of religion is where I am happy to part company and to walk a different path. To make a long and complex story short, President Trump's record has been...inconsistent...at best. For example see The Atlantic, or this ACLU article. If Mr. Sandmann wants to be a principled defender of the first amendment and to champion civility in our disagreements, fine, but one has to do so in a non-partisan way (the organization FIRE is a good example).
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Old 12th December 2020, 05:33 PM   #2487
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The Hidden Brain NPR podcast just had an excellent episode called Screaming Into The Void: How Outrage Is Hijacking Our Culture, And Our Minds
I highly recommend this episode for anybody that participated in the rabid online shame mob of a minor with a Trumpian relationship to the evidence of what actually happened.
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Old 18th December 2021, 12:07 PM   #2488
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Nicholas Sandmann reaches settlement with NBC


Three down, four to go.

I'm curious to know if Nick Sandmann is going to end up with more settlement money than than Kyle Rittenhouse. Hopefully they both end up with '**** you' money and then they set their sights on the young turks and sue them out of existence.
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Old 19th December 2021, 03:21 AM   #2489
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Nicholas Sandmann reaches settlement with NBC


Three down, four to go.

I'm curious to know if Nick Sandmann is going to end up with more settlement money than than Kyle Rittenhouse. Hopefully they both end up with '**** you' money and then they set their sights on the young turks and sue them out of existence.
It's going to be funny to watch the Rittenhouse boy self destruct. We all know he will. His destruction will be amusing.
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Old 19th December 2021, 08:22 AM   #2490
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Nicholas Sandmann reaches settlement with NBC


Three down, four to go.

I'm curious to know if Nick Sandmann is going to end up with more settlement money than than Kyle Rittenhouse. Hopefully they both end up with '**** you' money and then they set their sights on the young turks and sue them out of existence.
Yeah because hero George Zimmerman sure did so well out of the Trayvon Martin case.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
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Old 19th December 2021, 08:43 AM   #2491
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Nicholas Sandmann reaches settlement with NBC





Three down, four to go.



I'm curious to know if Nick Sandmann is going to end up with more settlement money than than Kyle Rittenhouse. Hopefully they both end up with '**** you' money and then they set their sights on the young turks and sue them out of existence.
Seems as likely as not that sandmann got a nuisance value to piss off. They'd never admit it and confidentially allows them to say it's a huge victory regardless.

Quote:
Everyone knows Covington Catholic High School’s Nick Sandmann sought $250 million in a lawsuit against major news organizations and individuals within their realms. Word that he settled with CNN in January and with the Washington Post last week has raised questions about how much he actually won. Lawyers who have observed the litigation have almost universally agreed it was not anywhere close to $250 million. (The official settlement amount remains confidential.)

“If you believe this kid got anything more than a nuisance fee settlement, you’re dreaming,” said national security law attorney Bradley P. Moss.
https://lawandcrime.com/media/some-l...-with-peanuts/
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Old 19th December 2021, 09:45 AM   #2492
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Seems as likely as not that sandmann got a nuisance value to piss off. They'd never admit it and confidentially allows them to say it's a huge victory regardless.



https://lawandcrime.com/media/some-l...-with-peanuts/
I wonder if a "nuissance value" is enough to pay for a college education? Or at least a semester?

I suppose we'll never know. What we know is that when all was said and done, Nick came out of this very well, as he should have. I think the self-inflicted damage to CNN, WaPo, and other outlets who reported this initially as MAGA harrassment of native Americans is more significant than any lawsuit.
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Old 19th December 2021, 09:50 AM   #2493
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I wonder if a "nuissance value" is enough to pay for a college education? Or at least a semester?
That's what I was thinking. CNN's cigarette money is life altering to a lot of us. I'd bet closer to a prepaid degree, comfortable new house, and a car in the lad's stocking this year.
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Old 19th December 2021, 03:55 PM   #2494
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Sandmann who??? Rittenhouse will be used up, discarded and forgotten soon enough too.
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Old 19th December 2021, 04:15 PM   #2495
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Sandmann who??? Rittenhouse will be used up, discarded and forgotten soon enough too.
Yeah, no hate in that statement. LOL.
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Old 19th December 2021, 04:38 PM   #2496
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
It's going to be funny to watch the Rittenhouse boy self destruct. We all know he will. His destruction will be amusing.

Doubtful. If nursing school or law school doesn't work out, he can always join law enforcement and command a SWAT team, kid's got some talent.
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Old 19th December 2021, 04:39 PM   #2497
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I wonder if a "nuissance value" is enough to pay for a college education? Or at least a semester?

I suppose we'll never know. What we know is that when all was said and done, Nick came out of this very well, as he should have. I think the self-inflicted damage to CNN, WaPo, and other outlets who reported this initially as MAGA harrassment of native Americans is more significant than any lawsuit.
Can you say that? Why? A "nuisance value" could easily be a small sum. The attorneys for the press outlets could look at how many hours they would have to bill to go through the motions before his suit was tossed out and decide giving him small wad of cash to piss off is a cheaper deal.

Are his lawyers working pro-bono?
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Old 19th December 2021, 06:43 PM   #2498
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Can you say that? Why? A "nuisance value" could easily be a small sum. The attorneys for the press outlets could look at how many hours they would have to bill to go through the motions before his suit was tossed out and decide giving him small wad of cash to piss off is a cheaper deal.

Are his lawyers working pro-bono?
I'm extremely confident he would not have accepted any settlement that left him in debt to his lawyers.

If he didn't come away with a penny, he came out with a positive reputation and publicity as the kid who took on big media.

But I'll bet he also came away with a penny or two.
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Old 19th December 2021, 07:30 PM   #2499
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I'm extremely confident he would not have accepted any settlement that left him in debt to his lawyers.

If he didn't come away with a penny, he came out with a positive reputation and publicity as the kid who took on big media.

But I'll bet he also came away with a penny or two.
I'm thinking, a pretty penny, a shinny dime, a first class quarter, and a sizable stack of cold hard cash to boot.
If he got a tenth of what they were going for it'd still be a substantial amount in the lower eight figure range.
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Old 20th December 2021, 09:15 AM   #2500
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
It's going to be funny to watch the Rittenhouse boy self destruct. We all know he will. His destruction will be amusing.
Why will it be amusing to you?
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Old 20th December 2021, 09:17 AM   #2501
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I'm thinking, a pretty penny, a shinny dime, a first class quarter, and a sizable stack of cold hard cash to boot.
If he got a tenth of what they were going for it'd still be a substantial amount in the lower eight figure range.
If
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Old 20th December 2021, 09:26 AM   #2502
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I'm extremely confident he would not have accepted any settlement that left him in debt to his lawyers.

If he didn't come away with a penny, he came out with a positive reputation and publicity as the kid who took on big media.

But I'll bet he also came away with a penny or two.
At least a few 1909 S VBDs in MS 67+
A few wartime coppers.
And an 1864 Indiand Heads in MS 66+ if one exists
and lots more

IMO no way he walked away with less that 10,000,000. But that is nuisance money to some large companies.

I don't know if he deserved to get it but they difinately deserve to pay it.
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Old 20th December 2021, 09:28 AM   #2503
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Looking at the thread title, is our OP next on the litigious chopping block?
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Old 20th December 2021, 09:37 AM   #2504
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Looking at the thread title, is our OP next on the litigious chopping block?
I don't think Travis has deep enough pockets to make it worth the effort.

Also, we internet yappers aren't expected to maintain standards.

The only role that the OP and posts like it play in this litigation is evidence. The OP repeating the falsehoods of the story is proof that Sandmann's reputation was actually damaged.
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Old 20th December 2021, 09:38 AM   #2505
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
At least a few 1909 S VBDs in MS 67+
A few wartime coppers.
And an 1864 Indiand Heads in MS 66+ if one exists
and lots more

IMO no way he walked away with less that 10,000,000. But that is nuisance money to some large companies.

I don't know if he deserved to get it but they difinately deserve to pay it.
Lol ok.

I posted this long thread from an actual litigation attorney last time this went around. It's a long read but worth it.

https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/s...97289255710720

Two things can be true at once. The news really, really screwed up this story in a way that painted Sandmann in an unfairly dim light. Also, the 1st amendment provides wide protections to the press, including when they get stories dead wrong.

Sandmann's case was always a long shot because it wasn't enough to prove that the press got it wrong, they have to prove that they intentionally got it wrong.

They don't want to waste money on lawyers even on a case they know they'll win, so they throw Sandmann and his attorneys maybe 5 figures to go away rather than squashing them in the dirt. Not a terrible outcome for Sandmann, but not exactly hitting the lotto either.

Quote:
The theme of this coverage should have been: “With his case hanging by a rapidly unraveling thread, the Covington kid decides to call it quits.” Instead, because media has been gutted, a huge portion of people think Sandmann is on his way to becoming a billionaire.
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Old 20th December 2021, 12:15 PM   #2506
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
They don't want to waste money on lawyers even on a case they know they'll win, so they throw Sandmann and his attorneys maybe 5 figures to go away rather than squashing them in the dirt. Not a terrible outcome for Sandmann, but not exactly hitting the lotto either.
I was thinking the same thing. All of the research I've done shows that it's just as likely he walked away with $20k a piece from CNN and WaPo than it is he walked away with anything substantial.

Personally, I think it shakes out something like this:

Lawyers: We'll cover your attorney's fees and give you $20k for this lawsuit.

Nick: I am suing you for $250 million, I want more.

Lawyers: No, but we'll do both of us a favor. We'll make the deal confidential. That way you look like you're coming out ahead, and we get this to go away.

Nick isn't going to be a millionaire, and for all this nonsense I hear about Rittenhouse suing, what's he going to sue for?
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Old 20th December 2021, 04:01 PM   #2507
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I get the sense that some here hope that Sandmann didn't get very much money.
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Old 20th December 2021, 04:23 PM   #2508
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I get the sense that some here hope that Sandmann didn't get very much money.
Well, he was wearing a MAGA hat. Which makes him a white supremacist. Or something.
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Old 20th December 2021, 04:24 PM   #2509
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I get the sense that some here hope that Sandmann didn't get very much money.
I hope he didn't get very much money, but I'm generally sour on litigation.


What happened to him was bad, but not all that bad. I don't see any reason for people to get rich just because something kinda sorta bad happened to them. I think the kid should still have to work for a living.
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Old 21st December 2021, 02:09 AM   #2510
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I get the sense that some here hope that Sandmann didn't get very much money.
Yep - the poor losers of this forum are really full of hate when their little SJW narratives get all spoiled by facts.
They had a young white boy to crucify and they went at him with pitchforks and burning brands. No remorse when it turned out that their precious hatred was based on falsehoods and exaggerations. Now they are trying to minimize his huge wins by pretending to themselves that he got no worthwhile recompense.
Funny how they are mostly the same people that fell for the Jussie Smollet story and claimed anyone who thought it didn't add up was a racist.
What a joke!
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Old 21st December 2021, 02:15 AM   #2511
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I hope he didn't get very much money, but I'm generally sour on litigation.


What happened to him was bad, but not all that bad. I don't see any reason for people to get rich just because something kinda sorta bad happened to them. I think the kid should still have to work for a living.
I'm willing to bet that you wouldn't like to be publicly humiliated worldwide and called vile and despicable things like he was for something he didn't do.
He was hated for even existing. He and his parents got death threats. His school disowned him. His life was hell.
His name will be forever tainted by that hell he was put through.
If you think what he went through publicly was "not all that bad" - why do you hide behind a false name on an obscure forum?
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Old 21st December 2021, 06:46 AM   #2512
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I hope he didn't get very much money, but I'm generally sour on litigation.


What happened to him was bad, but not all that bad. I don't see any reason for people to get rich just because something kinda sorta bad happened to them. I think the kid should still have to work for a living.
I mean, it's not like his litigation strategy was bad. It was meant as a PR stunt as part of a larger strategy to rehabilitate his imagine after being smeared by the press that was very much a success. But let's not kid ourselves that this thing was somehow a multimillion dollar payday.

Sandmann's PR strategy very successfully vindicated his reputation and rubbed the media's face in the mess they made on the carpet, and probably got a bit of pocket change out of it, but you live in a fantasy land if you think he got rich off this.
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Old 21st December 2021, 06:53 AM   #2513
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
I'm willing to bet that you wouldn't like to be publicly humiliated worldwide and called vile and despicable things like he was for something he didn't do.
He was hated for even existing. He and his parents got death threats. His school disowned him. His life was hell.
For a couple of days. Then it got better. See SuburbanTurkey's most recent post.

Quote:
If you think what he went through publicly was "not all that bad" - why do you hide behind a false name on an obscure forum?
Who else is going to listen to me? It's this, or rant at passersby on a streetcorner.

ETA:
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I mean, it's not like his litigation strategy was bad. It was meant as a PR stunt as part of a larger strategy to rehabilitate his imagine after being smeared by the press that was very much a success. But let's not kid ourselves that this thing was somehow a multimillion dollar payday.

Sandmann's PR strategy very successfully vindicated his reputation and rubbed the media's face in the mess they made on the carpet, and probably got a bit of pocket change out of it, but you live in a fantasy land if you think he got rich off this.
Exactly. The kid ended up pretty well off, reputation wise. I'll bet he even got some money out of it. Perhaps enough for a college education and a car. I'll bet he didn't get as much as his lawyers.

ETA2: And, regardless of what he actually got, which I have no way of knowing, my personal opinion is that he should have gotten something out of it, but not a lot.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 21st December 2021 at 06:59 AM.
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Old 21st December 2021, 11:03 AM   #2514
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
I'm willing to bet that you wouldn't like to be publicly humiliated worldwide and called vile and despicable things like he was for something he didn't do.
He was hated for even existing. He and his parents got death threats. His school disowned him. His life was hell.
His name will be forever tainted by that hell he was put through.
If you think what he went through publicly was "not all that bad" - why do you hide behind a false name on an obscure forum?
LoL man, the right really does have a victim complex.

I mean, I'm sure you had this same foot stampy style argument when AOC was targeted relentlessly for the myriad of lies you and your ilk have made about her, right? You jumped up and stood up for her. Talked about how her feelings were hurt. How terrible her life has been.

Rittenhouse is riding the tide to speeches. He's cashing in on what happened. How has he been damaged in anyway? It's as funny as it is stupid.

When was the last time you heard about this guy? Seriously, ******* when? How many times have you heard of him since this even took place?
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Old 27th July 2022, 07:16 AM   #2515
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I'm not sure who this guy is but according to his twitter:

Quote:
A federal judge in Kentucky today granted summary judgment motions from five media companies (NYT, ABC News, Gannett, CBS News and Rolling Stone) in defamation cases from Nick Sandmann.
I was able to find one article on it, but it's behind a paywall. If anyone else finds one I'd be interested to read the details.

All-in-all it doesn't look like Sandmann is walking away with much of anything. Even if he settled with some of them in other cases the attorney's fees for this case probably ate it all up.
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Old 27th July 2022, 01:40 PM   #2516
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There are other sources.

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile...yt-and-others/

https://www.mediapost.com/publicatio...suit-stem.html

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Old 27th July 2022, 03:43 PM   #2517
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
From your link:

Quote:
After years of politically charged litigation, former Covington Catholic High School student Nick Sandmann has lost a round of high-profile defamation lawsuits against five mainstream media companies at the summary judgment stage. That’s according to court dockets and an opinion and order signed by a federal judge in the Eastern District of Kentucky on Tuesday.

Sandmann’s cases against ABC News, Rolling Stone magazine, CBS News, newspaper and television station owner Gannett, and The New York Times are now officially listed as “terminated” on the court record.
Quote:
All parties moved for various forms of summary judgment, and a judge agreed to dismiss the cases by agreeing with the five media defendants and disagreeing with Sandmann’s attorneys.
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Old 29th August 2022, 01:33 AM   #2518
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
If anyone else finds one I'd be interested to read the details.

There was also a video:
Quote:
Covington Catholic MAGA-Goober Court Case CRUSHED BY JUDGE!!! (Jesse Dollemore on YouTube, July 28, 2022 - 8:54)
Jesse talks about the long-awaited decision from the federal judge in the case brought against several media organizations by the MAGA-hat-wearing Covington Catholic student Nick Sandmann. Although CNN and NBC chose to settle early with Sandmann, every other media organization that decided to fight for their 1st Amendment rights ended up prevailing in the matter!
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

CNN and NBC must be kicking themselves for having settled out of court.
I wonder if Sandman is still looking as smug as he did back then. I haven't seen any recent photos.
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Old 29th August 2022, 07:47 AM   #2519
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
There was also a video:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

CNN and NBC must be kicking themselves for having settled out of court.
The conservative media really, really, REALLY rubbed their faces in those settlements, making all sorts of unsubstantiated claims about how huuuuge those settlements were.

So yes, I really hope they are kicking themselves. They appear to have scored a pair of own goals.
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Old 29th August 2022, 07:54 AM   #2520
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
CNN and NBC must be kicking themselves for having settled out of court.
I wonder if Sandman is still looking as smug as he did back then. I haven't seen any recent photos.
Yeah, so all things said and done I'm going to stick with my previous assertion. I think he got less than $50k between CNN and NBC, combined, and now he's getting absolutely nothing else.

Tough stuff for the kid. I bet he really thought he had a payday.
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