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26th August 2020, 04:13 AM | #2481 |
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It was painful listening to Sandmann's speech, due to the extent that the things he said were correct.
The widespread, knee-jerk responses that vilified him was a gift to Trump -- a gift that we saw opened last night. |
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26th August 2020, 07:11 AM | #2482 |
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First Amendment freedoms
When Mr. Sandmann spoke about his vilification, I could not disagree with him; regrettably, some people never changed their perspective: The Daily Kos wrote, "His claim to fame, as is almost always the case in Trump’s modern GOP, was being an ******* to an American Indian protester."
When Mr. Sandmann painted President Trump as a champion of First Amendment freedoms, I found myself strongly in disagreement. |
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26th August 2020, 07:27 AM | #2483 |
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Sandmann leaning into becoming a right wing pundit.
The media definitely did him a disservice, and as much as he seems like a smug little ****, he had a real point about how he got screwed. Surprisingly literally no-one, he's trying to leverage this incident into becoming some kind of right wing media darling. |
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26th August 2020, 08:07 AM | #2484 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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26th August 2020, 08:11 AM | #2485 |
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26th August 2020, 09:53 AM | #2486 |
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Walking a few steps in his moccasins
My recollection of Mr. Sandmann's speech is that he brought up the First Amendment and also brought up objective reporting, as well as discussing being canceled. I agree about the need for careful, objective reporting. The reporting on the Phillips drumming incident was lazy, and the commentary was poor (and has not always gotten better, as the Daily Kos demonstrated).
Freedom of expression is a little trickier. If canceling includes calling for someone to be shunned, fired, or similar, then the cancelers are within their first amendment rights. However, they are not adhering to Archibald Cox's suggestion (in response to protesters at Harvard circa 1973-74) that the antidote for bad speech is more speech. If Mr. Sandmann's point was that no one should be shunned, shamed, or worse for wearing a hat with a political slogan, then I am willing to travel a few steps with him in that regard. His defense of President Trump with respect to freedom of expression and freedom of religion is where I am happy to part company and to walk a different path. To make a long and complex story short, President Trump's record has been...inconsistent...at best. For example see The Atlantic, or this ACLU article. If Mr. Sandmann wants to be a principled defender of the first amendment and to champion civility in our disagreements, fine, but one has to do so in a non-partisan way (the organization FIRE is a good example). |
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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12th December 2020, 05:33 PM | #2487 |
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The Hidden Brain NPR podcast just had an excellent episode called Screaming Into The Void: How Outrage Is Hijacking Our Culture, And Our Minds
I highly recommend this episode for anybody that participated in the rabid online shame mob of a minor with a Trumpian relationship to the evidence of what actually happened. |
18th December 2021, 12:07 PM | #2488 |
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Nicholas Sandmann reaches settlement with NBC
Three down, four to go. I'm curious to know if Nick Sandmann is going to end up with more settlement money than than Kyle Rittenhouse. Hopefully they both end up with '**** you' money and then they set their sights on the young turks and sue them out of existence. |
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19th December 2021, 03:21 AM | #2489 |
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19th December 2021, 08:22 AM | #2490 |
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19th December 2021, 08:43 AM | #2491 |
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Seems as likely as not that sandmann got a nuisance value to piss off. They'd never admit it and confidentially allows them to say it's a huge victory regardless.
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19th December 2021, 09:45 AM | #2492 |
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I wonder if a "nuissance value" is enough to pay for a college education? Or at least a semester?
I suppose we'll never know. What we know is that when all was said and done, Nick came out of this very well, as he should have. I think the self-inflicted damage to CNN, WaPo, and other outlets who reported this initially as MAGA harrassment of native Americans is more significant than any lawsuit. |
19th December 2021, 09:50 AM | #2493 |
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19th December 2021, 03:55 PM | #2494 |
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Sandmann who??? Rittenhouse will be used up, discarded and forgotten soon enough too.
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Why bother? |
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19th December 2021, 04:15 PM | #2495 |
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19th December 2021, 04:38 PM | #2496 |
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"We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.” – Joe Biden October 24, 2020 |
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19th December 2021, 04:39 PM | #2497 |
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Can you say that? Why? A "nuisance value" could easily be a small sum. The attorneys for the press outlets could look at how many hours they would have to bill to go through the motions before his suit was tossed out and decide giving him small wad of cash to piss off is a cheaper deal.
Are his lawyers working pro-bono? |
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19th December 2021, 06:43 PM | #2498 |
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I'm extremely confident he would not have accepted any settlement that left him in debt to his lawyers.
If he didn't come away with a penny, he came out with a positive reputation and publicity as the kid who took on big media. But I'll bet he also came away with a penny or two. |
19th December 2021, 07:30 PM | #2499 |
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20th December 2021, 09:15 AM | #2500 |
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20th December 2021, 09:17 AM | #2501 |
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20th December 2021, 09:26 AM | #2502 |
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At least a few 1909 S VBDs in MS 67+
A few wartime coppers. And an 1864 Indiand Heads in MS 66+ if one exists and lots more IMO no way he walked away with less that 10,000,000. But that is nuisance money to some large companies. I don't know if he deserved to get it but they difinately deserve to pay it. |
20th December 2021, 09:28 AM | #2503 |
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Looking at the thread title, is our OP next on the litigious chopping block?
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20th December 2021, 09:37 AM | #2504 |
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I don't think Travis has deep enough pockets to make it worth the effort.
Also, we internet yappers aren't expected to maintain standards. The only role that the OP and posts like it play in this litigation is evidence. The OP repeating the falsehoods of the story is proof that Sandmann's reputation was actually damaged. |
20th December 2021, 09:38 AM | #2505 |
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Lol ok.
I posted this long thread from an actual litigation attorney last time this went around. It's a long read but worth it. https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/s...97289255710720 Two things can be true at once. The news really, really screwed up this story in a way that painted Sandmann in an unfairly dim light. Also, the 1st amendment provides wide protections to the press, including when they get stories dead wrong. Sandmann's case was always a long shot because it wasn't enough to prove that the press got it wrong, they have to prove that they intentionally got it wrong. They don't want to waste money on lawyers even on a case they know they'll win, so they throw Sandmann and his attorneys maybe 5 figures to go away rather than squashing them in the dirt. Not a terrible outcome for Sandmann, but not exactly hitting the lotto either.
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20th December 2021, 12:15 PM | #2506 |
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I was thinking the same thing. All of the research I've done shows that it's just as likely he walked away with $20k a piece from CNN and WaPo than it is he walked away with anything substantial.
Personally, I think it shakes out something like this: Lawyers: We'll cover your attorney's fees and give you $20k for this lawsuit. Nick: I am suing you for $250 million, I want more. Lawyers: No, but we'll do both of us a favor. We'll make the deal confidential. That way you look like you're coming out ahead, and we get this to go away. Nick isn't going to be a millionaire, and for all this nonsense I hear about Rittenhouse suing, what's he going to sue for? |
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20th December 2021, 04:01 PM | #2507 |
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I get the sense that some here hope that Sandmann didn't get very much money.
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20th December 2021, 04:23 PM | #2508 |
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20th December 2021, 04:24 PM | #2509 |
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I hope he didn't get very much money, but I'm generally sour on litigation.
What happened to him was bad, but not all that bad. I don't see any reason for people to get rich just because something kinda sorta bad happened to them. I think the kid should still have to work for a living. |
21st December 2021, 02:09 AM | #2510 |
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Yep - the poor losers of this forum are really full of hate when their little SJW narratives get all spoiled by facts.
They had a young white boy to crucify and they went at him with pitchforks and burning brands. No remorse when it turned out that their precious hatred was based on falsehoods and exaggerations. Now they are trying to minimize his huge wins by pretending to themselves that he got no worthwhile recompense. Funny how they are mostly the same people that fell for the Jussie Smollet story and claimed anyone who thought it didn't add up was a racist. What a joke! |
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21st December 2021, 02:15 AM | #2511 |
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I'm willing to bet that you wouldn't like to be publicly humiliated worldwide and called vile and despicable things like he was for something he didn't do.
He was hated for even existing. He and his parents got death threats. His school disowned him. His life was hell. His name will be forever tainted by that hell he was put through. If you think what he went through publicly was "not all that bad" - why do you hide behind a false name on an obscure forum? |
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"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that." Steve Earle "I've met Bob Dylan's bodyguards and if Steve Earle thinks he can stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table, he's sadly mistaken." Townes Van Zandt |
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21st December 2021, 06:46 AM | #2512 |
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I mean, it's not like his litigation strategy was bad. It was meant as a PR stunt as part of a larger strategy to rehabilitate his imagine after being smeared by the press that was very much a success. But let's not kid ourselves that this thing was somehow a multimillion dollar payday.
Sandmann's PR strategy very successfully vindicated his reputation and rubbed the media's face in the mess they made on the carpet, and probably got a bit of pocket change out of it, but you live in a fantasy land if you think he got rich off this. |
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21st December 2021, 06:53 AM | #2513 |
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For a couple of days. Then it got better. See SuburbanTurkey's most recent post.
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ETA: Exactly. The kid ended up pretty well off, reputation wise. I'll bet he even got some money out of it. Perhaps enough for a college education and a car. I'll bet he didn't get as much as his lawyers. ETA2: And, regardless of what he actually got, which I have no way of knowing, my personal opinion is that he should have gotten something out of it, but not a lot. |
21st December 2021, 11:03 AM | #2514 |
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LoL man, the right really does have a victim complex.
I mean, I'm sure you had this same foot stampy style argument when AOC was targeted relentlessly for the myriad of lies you and your ilk have made about her, right? You jumped up and stood up for her. Talked about how her feelings were hurt. How terrible her life has been. Rittenhouse is riding the tide to speeches. He's cashing in on what happened. How has he been damaged in anyway? It's as funny as it is stupid. When was the last time you heard about this guy? Seriously, ******* when? How many times have you heard of him since this even took place? |
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27th July 2022, 07:16 AM | #2515 |
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I'm not sure who this guy is but according to his twitter:
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All-in-all it doesn't look like Sandmann is walking away with much of anything. Even if he settled with some of them in other cases the attorney's fees for this case probably ate it all up. |
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“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss |
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27th July 2022, 01:40 PM | #2516 |
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There are other sources.
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile...yt-and-others/ https://www.mediapost.com/publicatio...suit-stem.html Ranb |
27th July 2022, 03:43 PM | #2517 |
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29th August 2022, 01:33 AM | #2518 | |||
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There was also a video:
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CNN and NBC must be kicking themselves for having settled out of court. I wonder if Sandman is still looking as smug as he did back then. I haven't seen any recent photos. |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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29th August 2022, 07:47 AM | #2519 |
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29th August 2022, 07:54 AM | #2520 |
Great minds think...
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“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss |
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