IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags anti-islam sentiments , Germany issues , germany politics , Nazi comparisons , Volker Kauder

Reply
Old 7th May 2012, 09:06 AM   #81
A'isha
Miss Schoolteacher
 
A'isha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 15,221
Come on, everyone knows that Germany was an idyllic land of tranquil pacifism with no history of violence until Muslims showed up and ruined everything.
__________________
When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes - Desiderius Erasmus

"Does [A'isha] want to end up in a gas chamber, I wonder? Because this is where the whole thing will end" - McHrozni
A'isha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 09:59 AM   #82
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 19,667
Originally Posted by ddt View Post
Thanks. I see now that the explanation of the youtube film already tells (most of) that. Why didn't Virus read that before posting?

"Wild guess" - because for his guru Robert Spencer all Muslims are the same?
__________________
Freimir Kron
waltet schon
unser Sohn
auf dem Thron
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 01:16 PM   #83
Moss
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,212
Originally Posted by DC View Post
i can post similar videos of neo nazis, anti-fa or many other groups, what is your point?
German Demos are full of people that party hard? *cue Andrew W. K.*

Toontown's arguments remind me of the laughable "Leitkultur" debate we had a few years ago.
If we are going by your comments so far national identity is determined by elected representatives of the majority. Ok, where do minorities fit in? Because that is the rub: If we are going by that argument Jews in Germany would not be part of the national identity. Which does not need any further comment on how harebrained that would be.
So, what determines who gets to be part of national identity? Does it depend on how recent a group has become part of the current social and cultural life of a nation? I find it rather odd that the second or third largest religious group in Germany should be left out because its spread is more recent. (That depends on whether you take German Christians as one monolithic block or subdivide it into those ultramontes guys and the doornailers.)
If we are going with inane insinuations: the status quo is nothing to preserve just because it is the status quo.
German national identity should reflect both majorities and minorities because the exclusion of either makes no sense and breeds resentment. You can disagree with that if you want, but you better have some arguments and not just "U HAET DA CONSERVATIFS!"
I don't disagree with Kauder because he is an opportunistic bigot, I disagree with Kauder because he seeks to exclude people that have lived and worked in Germany for almost half a century, whose children I live and work with, who are my friends. Because he is making hasty generalizations about them and their families based on the extremistic fringe. So did you. The comparison between most muslims in Germany and the KKK is not even wrong. But thanks for playing.
Moss is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 01:37 PM   #84
Toontown
Philosopher
 
Toontown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,595
Originally Posted by DC View Post
i can post similar videos of neo nazis, anti-fa or many other groups, what is your point?
What is your point? My point is...well, Roseanne Barr said it best:

"I consider myself a pretty good judge of people and that's why I don't like none of 'em."

Just saying. Trading Nazism for Islamism is not the way I would go, in terms of national identity and character. But it's not my country, and really not my problem. Or yours.

I'm just annoyed because an intense thought-crimes investigation was attempted against me because of a few half-serious offhand comments - most of which was removed by the mods and placed in AAH.

And now here comes 3 or 4 more wanting to reinstate the investigation.
__________________
"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump
Toontown is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 01:57 PM   #85
ddt
Mafia Penguin
 
ddt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 19,579
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
"Wild guess" - because for his guru Robert Spencer all Muslims are the same?
Good find, I'd say a very plausible guess.


Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
What is your point? My point is...well, Roseanne Barr said it best:

"I consider myself a pretty good judge of people and that's why I don't like none of 'em."

Just saying. Trading Nazism for Islamism is not the way I would go, in terms of national identity and character. But it's not my country, and really not my problem. Or yours.

I'm just annoyed because an intense thought-crimes investigation was attempted against me because of a few half-serious offhand comments - most of which was removed by the mods and placed in AAH.

And now here comes 3 or 4 more wanting to reinstate the investigation.
I'm really puzzled by your reaction. DC's post was a reaction to Virus, not to you; and now you seemingly willfully set yourself up for indeed another "investigation", to use your own terminology.

Your Islamism is a huge strawman: as has been said several times in this thread, islamists are a very tiny minority among German Muslims. No chance in hell that the Islamists would take over - they're as influential as the Neo-Nazi groups and surely as much on the radar of the BND and the BKA. And as you may be very well aware, the vast majority of German Muslims are of Turkish descent, and that's about the last country associated with Islamism.
__________________
"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf

"I think accuracy is important" - Vixen
ddt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 02:34 PM   #86
Toontown
Philosopher
 
Toontown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,595
Originally Posted by ddt View Post
I'm really puzzled by your reaction. DC's post was a reaction to Virus, not to you; and now you seemingly willfully set yourself up for indeed another "investigation", to use your own terminology.
I wouldn't try it, if I were you. Unless you enjoy looking silly. You really have no leg to stand on.

Originally Posted by ddt View Post
Your Islamism is a huge strawman: as has been said several times in this thread, islamists are a very tiny minority among German Muslims.
So you agree with Kauder then? Islam is not, in fact, an appreciable part of German culture and identity?

Good. Then you'll have no objections to my saying I found nothing wrong with Kauder's statement.

Originally Posted by ddt View Post
No chance in hell that the Islamists would take over - they're as influential as the Neo-Nazi groups and surely as much on the radar of the BND and the BKA.
Well good. However, according to Chaos, they are 10% closer to taking over than they were in 1969. And, according to both Moss and Chaos, Islam therefore deserves the chance to become an integral part of German identity and culture. Just as every belief system deserves the chance, I suppose the reasoning would be, by extrapolation - never mind how jacked-up many belief systems are.

But I have seen people resort to the bogus reasoning that religions are special belief systems, deserving of special respect and deference, and deserving of being considered a part of a country's identity and culture if their practitioners are citizens and can form a sizeable crowd...or whatever. I think the whole line of reasoning is bonkers, but it is the memeified Zombie Left line of reasoning, and therefore has adherents.

Originally Posted by ddt View Post
And as you may be very well aware, the vast majority of German Muslims are of Turkish descent, and that's about the last country associated with Islamism.
Well, that's great. But your concept of "Islamism" probably differs from mine.
__________________
"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump
Toontown is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 02:47 PM   #87
Bill Thompson
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,171
Islam does not belong.
Bill Thompson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 03:04 PM   #88
ddt
Mafia Penguin
 
ddt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 19,579
Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
I wouldn't try it, if I were you. Unless you enjoy looking silly. You really have no leg to stand on.

Originally Posted by ddt
Your Islamism is a huge strawman: as has been said several times in this thread, islamists are a very tiny minority among German Muslims.
So you agree with Kauder then? Islam is not, in fact, an appreciable part of German culture and identity?
It's you who's looking silly - or intentionally setting up a strawman, by equivocating Islam with Islamism. The rest of the idiocy in your post is built on that strawman.
__________________
"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf

"I think accuracy is important" - Vixen
ddt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 03:05 PM   #89
Craig B
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,841
Originally Posted by Bill Thompson View Post
Islam does not belong.
The question is, does it belong in Germany? Is that what you mean?
Craig B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 03:47 PM   #90
Cleon
King of the Pod People
 
Cleon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 25,565
Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
You are not authorized to make that determination.
I just remembered this little gem.

Toontown, I'd very much be interested in hearing your logic as to why you are "authorized" to have an opinion on the subject, but I am not.

Please try not to break my irony meter too badly.
__________________
"People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich
Cleon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 04:17 PM   #91
DC
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,064
Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
I wouldn't try it, if I were you. Unless you enjoy looking silly. You really have no leg to stand on.



So you agree with Kauder then? Islam is not, in fact, an appreciable part of German culture and identity?

Good. Then you'll have no objections to my saying I found nothing wrong with Kauder's statement.



Well good. However, according to Chaos, they are 10% closer to taking over than they were in 1969. And, according to both Moss and Chaos, Islam therefore deserves the chance to become an integral part of German identity and culture. Just as every belief system deserves the chance, I suppose the reasoning would be, by extrapolation - never mind how jacked-up many belief systems are.

But I have seen people resort to the bogus reasoning that religions are special belief systems, deserving of special respect and deference, and deserving of being considered a part of a country's identity and culture if their practitioners are citizens and can form a sizeable crowd...or whatever. I think the whole line of reasoning is bonkers, but it is the memeified Zombie Left line of reasoning, and therefore has adherents.



Well, that's great. But your concept of "Islamism" probably differs from mine.
what is your concept of Islamism?
DC is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 05:11 PM   #92
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 31,847
Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
I just remembered this little gem.

Toontown, I'd very much be interested in hearing your logic as to why you are "authorized" to have an opinion on the subject, but I am not.

Please try not to break my irony meter too badly.

Whatever you do, don't point his contradictions. That's persecution.
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 05:13 PM   #93
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 31,847
Originally Posted by DC View Post
what is your concept of Islamism?
It means whatever he wants it to mean. No more. No less.

Quit persecuting the poor diddums. It's like the Spanish Inquisition and the Stalinist show trials rolled into one and, yes, I think it wouldn't be hyperbolic to say that Toontown is right now a victim of the Holocaust too.
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 06:29 PM   #94
Toontown
Philosopher
 
Toontown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,595
Originally Posted by ddt View Post
It's you who's looking silly - or intentionally setting up a strawman, by equivocating Islam with Islamism. The rest of the idiocy in your post is built on that strawman.
Why did you go to the bother of quoting my question, only to avoid answering it?

Question-answering doesn't seem to be among my inquisitors' strong points. Just as well. Shortens the 'conversation'.
__________________
"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump
Toontown is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 06:33 PM   #95
Toontown
Philosopher
 
Toontown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,595
Originally Posted by Toontown
You are not authorized to make that determination.


Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
I just remembered this little gem.

Toontown, I'd very much be interested in hearing your logic as to why you are "authorized" to have an opinion on the subject, but I am not.

Please try not to break my irony meter too badly.
I would expect better reading comprehension from one of your Modific stature.

I didn't say you couldn't have an opinion. I simply pointed out that said opinion would be virtually weightless. Especially when presented without support, as if it were indisputable fact.
__________________
"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump

Last edited by Toontown; 7th May 2012 at 06:55 PM.
Toontown is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 06:35 PM   #96
Toontown
Philosopher
 
Toontown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,595
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Whatever you do, don't point his contradictions. That's persecution.
See post above.

First he'll have to find one, before he can point to it.

I'm sure he can find one, if he tries really hard. I haven't exactly been taking this nonsense seriously, you know.
__________________
"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump
Toontown is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 06:52 PM   #97
Toontown
Philosopher
 
Toontown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,595
Originally Posted by DC View Post
what is your concept of Islamism?
Nevermind. It would probably be a breach of forum etiquette to answer your question frankly. And if I can't answer frankly, there really is no point in answering at all.

From the online dictionary:

2. Islamism - the monotheistic religious system of Muslims founded in Arabia in the 7th century and based on the teachings of Muhammad as laid down in the Koran; "Islam is a complete way of life, not a Sunday religion"; "the term Muhammadanism is offensive to Muslims who believe that Allah, not Muhammad, founded their religion"

ddt seems to be of the convenient opinion that Turkish Muslims are not generally considered to be followers of The Prophet's actual teachings, thus are not considered "Islamists".

Which begs the questions:

Why do they call themselves Muslims then?

and

Why are those Salafists bothering to distribute Korans, if they don't even follow it's teachings?

Politics, perhaps? Politics, while hoping to crouch behind a shield of bogus ethnic immunity?
__________________
"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump

Last edited by Toontown; 7th May 2012 at 07:15 PM.
Toontown is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 07:14 PM   #98
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 19,667
That's the toontown dictionary. Try a real one.
__________________
Freimir Kron
waltet schon
unser Sohn
auf dem Thron
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 07:31 PM   #99
Toontown
Philosopher
 
Toontown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,595
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
That's the toontown dictionary. Try a real one.
Get your own semantic wiggle room. I'm not your stuck-hog-greaser.
__________________
"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump
Toontown is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 07:53 PM   #100
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 19,667
We all figured out where you are coming from, friend. You're the first to expect the Spanish Inquisition, but that won't help a bit.
__________________
Freimir Kron
waltet schon
unser Sohn
auf dem Thron
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 08:03 PM   #101
Toontown
Philosopher
 
Toontown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,595
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
We all figured out where you are coming from, friend. You're the first to expect the Spanish Inquisition, but that won't help a bit.
You think you're really doing something?

It is to laugh.

BTW: with whom are you allying yourself with that big yellow We? I want names.
__________________
"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump

Last edited by Toontown; 7th May 2012 at 08:15 PM.
Toontown is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 08:15 PM   #102
Virus
Philosopher
 
Virus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,875
I don't see why the West should embrace inferior cultures that created the sort of pathetic, failed societies that people are desperate to immigrate from in the first place.
__________________
"They say the right things. They ‘speak truth to power’, ‘transgress boundaries’, and all the rest of it. But you will have noticed that they are careful only to challenge religions that won’t hurt them (Christianity) and governments that won’t arrest them (democracies)." - Nick Cohen.
Virus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 08:17 PM   #103
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 19,667
Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
BTW: with whom are you allying yourself with that big yellow We? I want names.

The 3 or 4 outspoken inquisitors you mentioned before and maybe "one or two" observers.
__________________
Freimir Kron
waltet schon
unser Sohn
auf dem Thron
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 08:42 PM   #104
Toontown
Philosopher
 
Toontown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,595
Originally Posted by Virus View Post
I don't see why the West should embrace inferior cultures that created the sort of pathetic, failed societies that people are desperate to immigrate from in the first place.
You don't see why the West should incorporate failed ideologies? That's probably because you have a lick of sense.

The Zombie Left, OTOH, lacks a lick of sense. Their cunning plan is to so weaken the fabric of Western society as to bring about it's collapse, so that they, the Zombie Left, can seize control. Not entirely unlike the Manson Plan. And not at all unlike the Islamist Plan. Which explains the unholy union of the Zombie Left and the Islamists, which you started a thread about.

Perhaps it seems a bit paranoid to count Childlike Empress and her cohorts among the Zombie Left. But at the least, they should be made aware of their single-minded pursuit of Zombie Left politics.

I'm thinking maybe a reverse inquisition may be in order. After all, more than one can play their little game.

http://www.telospress.com/main/index...article_id=288
__________________
"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump

Last edited by Toontown; 7th May 2012 at 08:43 PM.
Toontown is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2012, 09:12 PM   #105
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 19,667
...
__________________
Freimir Kron
waltet schon
unser Sohn
auf dem Thron

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 7th May 2012 at 09:46 PM. Reason: environment might be too psychotic for jokes like this
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2012, 01:30 AM   #106
DC
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,064
Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
Nevermind. It would probably be a breach of forum etiquette to answer your question frankly. And if I can't answer frankly, there really is no point in answering at all.

From the online dictionary:

2. Islamism - the monotheistic religious system of Muslims founded in Arabia in the 7th century and based on the teachings of Muhammad as laid down in the Koran; "Islam is a complete way of life, not a Sunday religion"; "the term Muhammadanism is offensive to Muslims who believe that Allah, not Muhammad, founded their religion"

ddt seems to be of the convenient opinion that Turkish Muslims are not generally considered to be followers of The Prophet's actual teachings, thus are not considered "Islamists".

Which begs the questions:

Why do they call themselves Muslims then?

and

Why are those Salafists bothering to distribute Korans, if they don't even follow it's teachings?

Politics, perhaps? Politics, while hoping to crouch behind a shield of bogus ethnic immunity?
there are many different muslims, just like with other religions.
why are Christians calling themself Christians if they are not following the teachings of Jesus?
DC is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2012, 01:32 AM   #107
DC
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,064
Originally Posted by Virus View Post
I don't see why the West should embrace inferior cultures that created the sort of pathetic, failed societies that people are desperate to immigrate from in the first place.
freedom of religion.
DC is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2012, 01:36 AM   #108
DC
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,064
Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
You don't see why the West should incorporate failed ideologies? That's probably because you have a lick of sense.

The Zombie Left, OTOH, lacks a lick of sense. Their cunning plan is to so weaken the fabric of Western society as to bring about it's collapse, so that they, the Zombie Left, can seize control. Not entirely unlike the Manson Plan. And not at all unlike the Islamist Plan. Which explains the unholy union of the Zombie Left and the Islamists, which you started a thread about.

Perhaps it seems a bit paranoid to count Childlike Empress and her cohorts among the Zombie Left. But at the least, they should be made aware of their single-minded pursuit of Zombie Left politics.

I'm thinking maybe a reverse inquisition may be in order. After all, more than one can play their little game.

http://www.telospress.com/main/index...article_id=288
zombie Left
DC is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2012, 01:36 AM   #109
Virus
Philosopher
 
Virus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,875
Originally Posted by DC View Post
freedom of religion.
Freedom of strawmen.
__________________
"They say the right things. They ‘speak truth to power’, ‘transgress boundaries’, and all the rest of it. But you will have noticed that they are careful only to challenge religions that won’t hurt them (Christianity) and governments that won’t arrest them (democracies)." - Nick Cohen.
Virus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2012, 01:38 AM   #110
DC
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,064
Originally Posted by Virus View Post
Freedom of strawmen.
DC is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2012, 04:53 AM   #111
A'isha
Miss Schoolteacher
 
A'isha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 15,221
Originally Posted by Virus View Post
I don't see why the West should embrace inferior cultures that created the sort of pathetic, failed societies that people are desperate to immigrate from in the first place.
Do you even say anything in your posts any more, or have you been completely reduced to being an ELIZA bot regurgitating Niall Ferguson-esque one-liners about your "superior Western culture"?
__________________
When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes - Desiderius Erasmus

"Does [A'isha] want to end up in a gas chamber, I wonder? Because this is where the whole thing will end" - McHrozni

Last edited by A'isha; 8th May 2012 at 04:54 AM.
A'isha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2012, 05:32 AM   #112
Virus
Philosopher
 
Virus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,875
Are you saying I should say true things less often?
__________________
"They say the right things. They ‘speak truth to power’, ‘transgress boundaries’, and all the rest of it. But you will have noticed that they are careful only to challenge religions that won’t hurt them (Christianity) and governments that won’t arrest them (democracies)." - Nick Cohen.
Virus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2012, 06:00 AM   #113
A'isha
Miss Schoolteacher
 
A'isha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 15,221
Originally Posted by Virus View Post
Are you saying I should say true things less often?
__________________
When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes - Desiderius Erasmus

"Does [A'isha] want to end up in a gas chamber, I wonder? Because this is where the whole thing will end" - McHrozni
A'isha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2012, 06:21 AM   #114
Toontown
Philosopher
 
Toontown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,595
Originally Posted by DC View Post
there are many different muslims, just like with other religions.
why are Christians calling themself Christians if they are not following the teachings of Jesus?
Gosh, I don't know.

But that wasn't the issue, was it. The issue was whether all Koran-following Muslims are "Islamists" in fact, if not by the variable definitions of agenda-driven internet ideologues.

Wasn't The Prophet an Islamist? Isn't the Koran an Islamist book?
__________________
"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump
Toontown is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2012, 06:28 AM   #115
A'isha
Miss Schoolteacher
 
A'isha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 15,221
Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
Gosh, I don't know.
Then maybe you should learn something about the topic before pretending to speak authoritatively about it.

Quote:
But that wasn't the issue, was it. The issue was whether all Koran-following Muslims are "Islamists" in fact, if not by the variable definitions of agenda-driven internet ideologues.
No, they're not.

Quote:
Wasn't The Prophet an Islamist?
Only in the same way that Jesus was a Dominionist.

Quote:
Isn't the Koran an Islamist book?
It's a book used by Islamists, but no, it's not Islamist in itself.
__________________
When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes - Desiderius Erasmus

"Does [A'isha] want to end up in a gas chamber, I wonder? Because this is where the whole thing will end" - McHrozni

Last edited by A'isha; 8th May 2012 at 06:29 AM.
A'isha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2012, 06:28 AM   #116
Toontown
Philosopher
 
Toontown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,595
Originally Posted by DC View Post
zombie Left
Perhaps you laugh too much.
__________________
"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump
Toontown is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2012, 06:29 AM   #117
Toontown
Philosopher
 
Toontown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,595
Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
No, they're not.

Only in the same way that Jesus was a Dominionist.

It's a book used by Islamists, but no, it's not Islamist in itself.
Denial isn't just a river in Egypt, either.
__________________
"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump
Toontown is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2012, 06:34 AM   #118
Toontown
Philosopher
 
Toontown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,595
Originally Posted by Virus View Post
Freedom of strawmen.
But Virus, all religions have the unalienable right to be incorporated into every country's national identity and culture - don't they?

Because they're religious belief systems, and that makes them special. And besides, how can their practitioners be free unless their belief system is incorporated into every Western country's national identity and culture?

Especially the ones that have totally ruined the countries from which they emanate. Those are the most special ones of all.
__________________
"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump

Last edited by Toontown; 8th May 2012 at 06:42 AM.
Toontown is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2012, 06:40 AM   #119
Toontown
Philosopher
 
Toontown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,595
Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
Then maybe you should learn something about the topic before pretending to speak authoritatively about it.
OK, so I need to learn why Christians who don't practice Christianity call themselves Christians, or shut up.

So many rules. You have so many rules...so arbitrarily applied...how will I ever gain the right to criticize a religion?
__________________
"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump
Toontown is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2012, 06:46 AM   #120
A'isha
Miss Schoolteacher
 
A'isha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 15,221
Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
Denial isn't just a river in Egypt, either.
And I can lead you to knowledge, but I can't make you think.

Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
OK, so I need to learn why Christians who don't practice Christianity call themselves Christians, or shut up.
No, you need to learn what DC's point was. Would you like me to explain it to you?

Quote:
So many rules. You have so many rules...so arbitrarily applied...how will I ever gain the right to criticize a religion?
No, there's only one rule: learn about something before you talk about it.

You can start here.
__________________
When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes - Desiderius Erasmus

"Does [A'isha] want to end up in a gas chamber, I wonder? Because this is where the whole thing will end" - McHrozni
A'isha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:32 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.