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Tags anti-islam sentiments , Germany issues , germany politics , Nazi comparisons , Volker Kauder

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Old 10th May 2012, 02:45 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Sharia is derived from hadith which are effectively sayings of Muhammad, transcribed from Gabriel who was acting as God's secretary.
Actually, Sharia derives from two sources: the Qur'an, and the sunnah. Only the Qur'an is the word of Allah as transmitted to Muhammad through the angel Gabriel (supposedly, anyway).

The sunnah, on the other hand, is the words, actions, and practices of Muhammad and his Companions in their daily lives, which are recorded in orally-transmitted accounts called the hadith. These are not things directly spoken by Allah via Gabriel, but are the memories, recollections, and descriptions of what Muhammad and his Companions did and said as passed on by their contemporaries (again, supposedly).


Quote:
Taking Christianity, another aspect is how the ideology evolves. Christianity has been allowed to move from the turgid goings on of the OT to lovely stuff like the Golden Rule through the coming of Jesus, but more importantly as a text the Bible is acknowledged to be the work of man and therefore fallible and open to interpretation.
This is not exactly true. See the concept of Biblical Inerrancy (and the related concept of Biblical Infallibility).

Quote:
In contrast, the Koran is alleged to be the letter-perfect word of Allah and cannot be changed in any way. This makes a comprehensive theory of cherry-picking and mitigation very difficult, made more so by the agenda-heavy instructions of the Islamic scholars. Of course many Muslims do obey only selective parts of the Koran, and don't want to live under sharia, but in terms of academic Islam there is no justification for their stance.
This is also untrue. The text itself of the Qur'an (well, the consonantal skeleton known as the rasm, at least) is considered to be the letter-perfect word of Allah, but figuring out just what that rasm says and means has long been a topic of intense scholarly debate within Islam itself.
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Old 10th May 2012, 03:04 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
For your sake I hope it doesn't matter. He lived most of his life, and all his preaching life, in the 7th century, not the 5th. I think the "shut up about things you know nothing about" was good advice.
Don't you worry your pretty little head about my sake. Worry about your sake. And it doesn't matter.

I don't commit a lot of trivia to memory. I had to look it up. From Wikipedia:

Muhammad (c. 26 April 570 8 June 632;[2] also transliterated as Mohammad, Mohammed, or Muhammed; Arabic: مُحَمَّد‎), full name: Muhammad Ibn `Abd Allāh Ibn `Abd al-Muttalib (Arabic: مُحَمَّد بِن عَبْدَالله بِن عَبْد اَلْمُطَّلِب‎) was the founder of the religion of Islam.[3][n 1] Born in 570 CE in the Arabian city of Mecca


CE means "Calendar Era".

So there you are. Jacked up again.
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Old 10th May 2012, 03:07 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
Actually, Sharia derives from two sources: the Qur'an, and the sunnah. Only the Qur'an is the word of Allah as transmitted to Muhammad through the angel Gabriel (supposedly, anyway).

The sunnah, on the other hand, is the words, actions, and practices of Muhammad and his Companions in their daily lives, which are recorded in orally-transmitted accounts called the hadith. These are not things directly spoken by Allah via Gabriel, but are the memories, recollections, and descriptions of what Muhammad and his Companions did and said as passed on by their contemporaries (again, supposedly).
Absolutely, I wasn't saying that sharia was dictated by an angel or anything like that (assuming that such thing were possible). I was talking about hadith as a source for sharia as relates to the 'authenticated' aspects of Muhammad's proclamations. Then again Muhammad did keep getting second-guessed by God, especially where women were concerned, so maybe there was an aspect of divine intervention in his sayings and actions too.

EDIT: I've just read my original sentence and it's very badly phrased. My fault, but I didn't mean Gabriel dictated any aspect of hadith.

Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
This is not exactly true. See the concept of Biblical Inerrancy (and the related concept of Biblical Infallibility).
That's true to a limited extent, and indeed some Christians actually believe every word of the Bible to be effectively that of God, albeit written by man, but by far the majority opinion is that the Bible is not immutable. Of course, having leaders such as the Pope (disagreeable though he is) does help in guiding the masses.

Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
This is also untrue. The text itself of the Qur'an (well, the consonantal skeleton known as the rasm, at least) is considered to be the letter-perfect word of Allah, but figuring out just what that rasm says and means has long been a topic of intense scholarly debate within Islam itself.
Again, I haven't said otherwise, that was my reference to the scholars. A great many Muslims believe it's not their position to interpret the Koran and that it can only be done by Islamic scholars. It's here that much of the more objectionable aspects of Islamic teachings are injected relating to instruction that the individual Muslim might well choose to ignore if given the leeway to freely practice Islam as a personal religion.

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Old 10th May 2012, 03:17 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
Don't you worry your pretty little head about my sake. Worry about your sake. And it doesn't matter.

I don't commit a lot of trivia to memory. I had to look it up. From Wikipedia:

Muhammad (c. 26 April 570 8 June 632;[2] also transliterated as Mohammad, Mohammed, or Muhammed; Arabic: مُحَمَّد‎), full name: Muhammad Ibn `Abd Allāh Ibn `Abd al-Muttalib (Arabic: مُحَمَّد بِن عَبْدَالله بِن عَبْد اَلْمُطَّلِب‎) was the founder of the religion of Islam.[3][n 1] Born in 570 CE in the Arabian city of Mecca


CE means "Calendar Era".

So there you are. Jacked up again.
So he was. And his preaching career spanned the period 610 to 622. Islam therefore arose in the seventh century. Here is the fifth:
Quote:
5th century. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. The 5th century is the period from 401 to 500 in accordance with the Julian calendar in Anno Domini/Common Era.
What do you call the period 1 to 100 AD/CE?
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Old 10th May 2012, 03:17 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
You really have got to be kidding. If I were to say: "I am not saying Catholics don't belong in Scotland; I'm saying the opposite. Catholicism does not fit the Scottish identity and culture, and so does not belong" I would be taken for a lunatic, and rightly so.

Opposite?? I don't believe I have ever read anything as nonsensical as that.
No, I don't have to be kidding. It really isn't necessary to herd people into extermination camps simply because you reject their religion.

And it seems fairly obvious that the vast majority of Germans do not find Islam to be particularly compelling. They are not exactly flocking to the Mosques to be converted.

But who knows. Perhaps many of them would like to convert, but are afraid of what might happen if they were to convert and then decide Islam is not for them. Then there would be the whole 'apostasy' thing, and you know how tense that can get.

Lots of downside to it. Not much upside. Not sure exactly what the upside would be. Maybe that's what Kauder meant. But maybe you should give it a try.
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Old 10th May 2012, 03:29 PM   #246
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Toontown

Sorry, I'm confused. I wrote
Quote:
You really have got to be kidding. If I were to say: "I am not saying Catholics don't belong in Scotland; I'm saying the opposite. Catholicism does not fit the Scottish identity and culture, and so does not belong" I would be taken for a lunatic, and rightly so.

Opposite?? I don't believe I have ever read anything as nonsensical as that.
But the reply you sent must be in error, and intended as a response to a completely different post.
Quote:
No, I don't have to be kidding. It really isn't necessary to herd people into extermination camps simply because you reject their religion.

And it seems fairly obvious that the vast majority of Germans do not find Islam to be particularly compelling. They are not exactly flocking to the Mosques to be converted.
Please redirect that to whoever it was who raised the issues of extermination camps and conversions. As you may see, I was discussing the ludicrous idea proposed by you that saying a religion doesn't belong is the opposite of saying its adherents don't belong. When you find the reply you have made to that point, please pass it on.

Added on edit. Since you look things up on wiki, rather than entrust them to the care of your memory - probably wisely - you may consult that source to discover that CE does not mean "calendar era":
Quote:
Common Era (also Current Era[1] or Christian Era[2]), abbreviated as CE, is an alternative designation for the calendar era originally introduced by 6th-century Christian monk Dionysius Exiguus, traditionally identified with Anno Domini (abbreviated AD).[3][4] Dates before the year 1 CE are indicated by the use of BCE, short for Before the Common Era (likewise with CE, also Before the Current Era or Before the Christian Era)
So it stands for Common Era, which is a particular calendar era. Muslims often express dates in AH, which is a different calendar era from CE. Jews use a calendar era starting with the date of the mythical creation, and so on. That's not CE either.

Last edited by Craig B; 10th May 2012 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 10th May 2012, 03:43 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Toontown

...

As you may see, I was discussing the ludicrous idea proposed by you that saying a religion doesn't belong is the opposite of saying its adherents don't belong. When you find the reply you have made to that point, please pass it on.
I had thought about suggesting that you actually read what Kauder actually said, but then I thought surely you have read it. But I guess not. Who knows. Increasingly, who cares. Jeezus freaking christ.

Here it is, from the OP article:

"Islam is not part of our tradition and identity in Germany and so does not belong in Germany," Volker Kauder, head of Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservatives in parliament, told the Passauer Neue Presse.

"But Muslims do belong in Germany. As state citizens, of course, they enjoy their full rights," he added.


The point I've tried repeatedly to make is, it is entirely possible for an individual or a country to reject a dubious belief system without rejecting the people who adhere to it. Not only possible, but there really is no sensible alternative. What are the alternatives, exactly?

1. Reject the benighted belief system and the people who hold it

2. Reject the benighted belief system, but not the people who hold it

3. Assimilate the benighted belief system, just because a small minority of people hold it

4. Ignore the benighted belief system, but don't say you're ignoring it, so that you don't offend the believers

Go ahead. Pick one.
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Old 10th May 2012, 04:01 PM   #248
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Toontown. "Opposite"? Response? And I think Kauder is ludicrous too.

"Assimilate the benighted belief system, just because small minority of people hold it." As I have noted, fewer than 1% of Germans in 1933 were Jews and they had assimilated very well.

Here's another alternative for you. Establish a separation of religion and the state, and pay not the least attention to the religious affiliation of citizens, as long as they obey the law.
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Old 10th May 2012, 04:38 PM   #249
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Wow! Somebody on this thread started badly and it has been downhill ever since.

5th Century Calendar Era is just the latest amusing pratfall.
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Old 10th May 2012, 04:49 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
Muhammad (c. 26 April 570 – 8 June 632;[2] also transliterated as Mohammad, Mohammed, or Muhammed; Arabic: مُحَمَّد‎), full name: Muhammad Ibn `Abd Allāh Ibn `Abd al-Muttalib (Arabic: مُحَمَّد بِن عَبْدَالله بِن عَبْد اَلْمُطَّلِب‎) was the founder of the religion of Islam.[3][n 1] Born in 570 CE in the Arabian city of Mecca
570 CE was in the Sixth Century, not the Fifth.

Quote:
CE means "Calendar Era".
CE means Common Era.

Do you want to know why I keep telling you to learn about something before you start talking about it, so you don't end up looking like a fool because you have no idea what you're talking about?

This is why.
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Old 10th May 2012, 05:16 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
"Assimilate the benighted belief system, just because small minority of people hold it." As I have noted, fewer than 1% of Germans in 1933 were Jews and they had assimilated very well.
By "assimilate" I mean make it your own. Germany did not make the Jews' religion it's own. Germany did not become Jewish. The Jews "assimilated", as you put it, meaning they adapted to Germany.

Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Here's another alternative for you. Establish a separation of religion and the state, and pay not the least attention to the religious affiliation of citizens, as long as they obey the law.
Ignoring a belief system is not assimilating it. Ignoring a belief system is ignoring it.

If a country ignores a belief system, then the belief system does not become part of the country's identity and culture. The country simply ignores it. IOW, tolerates it.

The German Muslims are assimilated, except for the ones who never learn the language. That does not mean Germany has assimilated their religion. Countries are under no obligation to assimilate anyone's religion.

But if you want to assimilate Islam, go ahead. Knock yourself out. Practice what you don't know you're preaching.
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Old 10th May 2012, 05:23 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Wow! Somebody on this thread started badly and it has been downhill ever since.

5th Century Calendar Era is just the latest amusing pratfall.
Damn. You people must be desperate. You'll jump on anything like a pack of half starved hound dogs on a ham bone. Three of you.

But I'm sure it's desperately important that I say 6th instead of 5th. So desperately important.

Just don't let me catch any of you being an integer off.
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Old 10th May 2012, 05:24 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
Damn. You people must be desperate. You'll jump on anything like a pack of half starved hound dogs on a ham bone. Three of you.

But I'm sure it's desperately important that I say 6th instead of 5th. So desperately important.
Yes.

It shows how little you care for things like "knowledge" and "facts".
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Old 10th May 2012, 05:26 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
CE means "Calendar Era".
Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
CE means Common Era.

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Old 10th May 2012, 05:28 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
Do you want to know why I keep telling you to learn about something before you start talking about it, so you don't end up looking like a fool because you have no idea what you're talking about?

This is why.
Hint: I wasn't talking about Muhammad's birthday. That was just a very unimportant detail, which has quite irrationally taken on massive importance to the three of you.
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Old 10th May 2012, 05:31 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
Hint: I wasn't talking about Muhammad's birthday. That was just a very unimportant detail, which has quite irrationally taken on massive importance to the three of you.
Then why did you post (and highlight) the year of Muhammad's birth? Just enjoy a good non sequitur, or what?

Though, really, it doesn't matter what aspect of Muhammad's life or the history of Islam you were talking about, since none of it took place in the Fifth Century!

Wait, I'm sorry, I meant to say none of it took place in the Fifth Century of the "Calendar Era".

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Old 10th May 2012, 05:36 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
Yes.

It shows how little you care for things like "knowledge" and "facts".
No, it shows how desperate you are to browbeat and nitpick. It's a meaningless detail.
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Old 10th May 2012, 05:37 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
Damn. You people must be desperate. You'll jump on anything like a pack of half starved hound dogs on a ham bone. Three of you.

But I'm sure it's desperately important that I say 6th instead of 5th. So desperately important.

Just don't let me catch any of you being an integer off.
Originally I thought you had made a mistake in chronology. It is important whether Islam originated in the seventh or the fifth century, as the political situation in Europe and the Near East changed enormously during those centuries. So the correction seemed worth making. If I had realised it simply arose from the fact that you don't know how to number centuries, I would probably have let it pass.

As to "CE", it was you who decided to offer us a definition of what it meant. It ill becomes you, therefore, to berate us for taking the trouble to correct your error.
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Old 10th May 2012, 05:39 PM   #259
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Never heard of "calendar era", ANTPogo? You either, Craig?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_era

Well, now you have.
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Old 10th May 2012, 05:46 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
Never heard of "calendar era", ANTPogo?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_era
Of course I have. It's also not what "CE" as used in (for instance) "570 CE" stands for.

I suppose you could say something like "Muhammad was born in the year 570 of the calendar era known as CE", but "CE" would still not stand for "calendar era", and would still stand for the proper "Common Era" (ie, "Muhammad was born in the year 570 of the calendar era known as the Common Era").

Or you could stop digging, Toontown.
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Old 10th May 2012, 05:55 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Originally I thought you had made a mistake in chronology. It is important whether Islam originated in the seventh or the fifth century, as the political situation in Europe and the Near East changed enormously during those centuries.
But there is no discussion of the political situation, so it's not important.

Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
So the correction seemed worth making. If I had realised it simply arose from the fact that you don't know how to number centuries, I would probably have let it pass.
Oh, I know it. It's the 21st century, but the year is 2012. If I had any inkling of the huge foofaraw such a minor boo-boo would generate, I would have been more careful.
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Old 10th May 2012, 05:56 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
Never heard of "calendar era", ANTPogo? You either, Craig?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_era

Well, now you have.
What are you on about? Can't you read the source you have linked to? It clearly tells us that CE refers to the Dionysian Common Era, and that it is a particular calendar era, like the Muslim AH, the Jewish Anno Mundi, the Ethiopian era of the Incarnation, etc etc. "Calendar Era" is what the Common Era is an example of, but the other eras are calendar eras without being CE. Just as a dog is an animal without being a cat.

And for the umpteenth time, "CE" stands not for "calendar era" but for "common era", or as some say, "Christian era". But the latter is not quite accurate, as some Christians, eg the Ethiopians mentioned above, don't use it.
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Old 10th May 2012, 05:59 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
"Calendar Era" and "Common Era" are both correct.
No, as an abbreviation used next to a year, "CE" means "Common Era" (or sometimes "Current Era", and rarely "Christian Era"), but never "Calendar Era".

Quote:
I'm surprised you all-knowing calendar-numbering people didn't know that.
I'm not, since it isn't true.

Quote:
I guess different people know different things.
Pop quiz, Toontown!

"Julius Caesar was assassinated in 44 BCE"

The "BCE" there stands for what:

A: Before the Common Era

B: Before the Current Era

C: Before the Calendar Era

D: Before the Christian Era

E: Mostly A, and sometimes B and D too.

F: None of the above.
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Old 10th May 2012, 06:12 PM   #264
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As fascinating as calendar systems undoubtedly are, it looks like the riveting subject is being used here as a browbeating tool. So whatever interest I might have been able to muster in a normal conversation is thoroughly extinguished here.
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Old 10th May 2012, 06:16 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
As fascinating as calendar systems undoubtedly are, it looks like the riveting subject is being used here as a browbeating tool. So whatever interest I might have been able to muster in a normal conversation is thoroughly extinguished here.
You know, the easiest way to avoid being "browbeaten" for saying utterly wrong things is to stop saying wrong things.

The second easiest way to avoid being "browbeaten" for saying utterly wrong things is to not double down on your errors and keep insisting you're actually right.
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Old 10th May 2012, 06:19 PM   #266
Craig B
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
Julius Caesar was assassinated in 44 BCE
And his assassins used a calendar era called AUC (anno urbis conditae) which started with the foundation of the city of Rome in 753 BCE. So they would have thought of the year of Caesar's death as DCCIX AUC or something of the kind. Another calendar era, but not CE.

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Old 10th May 2012, 06:36 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
You know, the easiest way to avoid being "browbeaten" for saying utterly wrong things is to stop saying wrong things.

The second easiest way to avoid being "browbeaten" for saying utterly wrong things is to not double down on your errors and keep insisting you're actually right.
That doesn't work. You get browbeaten anyway. The truth pisses people off much worse than a calendar boo-boo. There is hardly anything that pisses people off like the truth does.
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Old 10th May 2012, 06:38 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
That doesn't work. You get browbeaten anyway. The truth pisses people off much worse than a calendar boo-boo. There is hardly anything that pisses people off like the truth does.
Did I browbeat baron?
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Old 10th May 2012, 06:42 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
Did I browbeat baron?
Of course not. He was a total suck-up.
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Old 10th May 2012, 06:44 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
Of course not. He was a total suck-up.
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Old 10th May 2012, 06:45 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
That doesn't work. You get browbeaten anyway. The truth pisses people off much worse than a calendar boo-boo. There is hardly anything that pisses people off like the truth does.
Oh, so it's a boo-boo now is it? Not too long ago it was
Quote:
Never heard of "calendar era", ANTPogo? You either, Craig?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_era

Well, now you have.
It's not the truths you utter (if such there be) that piss people off, but arrogant foolishness like the above, followed by petulant accusations of browbeating when other people point out your mistakes.
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Old 10th May 2012, 06:55 PM   #272
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Old 10th May 2012, 07:03 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Oh, so it's a boo-boo now is it?
A boo-boo was all it ever was. It's only big to you. To you it's a chance to "marginalize" a jackboot.

But I'm only a jackboot because I"ve disagreed with you, whereas if I marched in lockstep with you I wouldn't be a jackboot.

I'd be a thought-nazi.

Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
It's not the truths you utter (if such there be) that piss people off, but arrogant foolishness like the above, followed by petulant accusations of browbeating when other people point out your mistakes.
So, for how many days are we going to be on the infamous calendar boo-boo inquisition?
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Old 10th May 2012, 07:08 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
So, for how many days are we going to be on the infamous calendar boo-boo inquisition?
Depends on how long you want to keep trying to claim you were right after all, and the only reason anyone cares that you repeatedly insisted that "CE" does too mean "Calendar Era" and that Muhammad did so live in the Fifth Century is because us fascist zombie leftist Islamonazi jackbooted thugs won't leave you alone until you're reduced to a quivering sycophantic puddle like baron was.
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Old 10th May 2012, 07:17 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
Depends on how long you want to keep trying to claim you were right after all, and the only reason anyone cares that you repeatedly insisted that "CE" does too mean "Calendar Era" and that Muhammad did so live in the Fifth Century is because us fascist zombie leftist Islamonazi jackbooted thugs won't leave you alone.
I said it was a boo-boo. It wouldn't have happened if my mind hadn't been on other things.

If you're trying for a major confession of a major, critical error, you'll be browbeating for a long time. You'e lucky you got the boo-boo. That was a stroke of luck for you.
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Old 10th May 2012, 07:26 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
1. Ignorance of how to have an open, honest debate.

2. Lack of desire to have an open, honest debate.


In internet political forums, there are always packs of hard-wired ideologues who run in packs, will not give an inch, and are determined to dominate the gotcha games that pass for debate.



Do you know what Islam is? Whatever you say Islam is, someone will dredge up some Muslim sect who are not that, or give lip service to not being that.
Unless what you say Islam is plays into their ideological hand.

These stumbling blocks of whom you speak are hardened political ideologues, looking to impose their ideological will on the naive.



Isolate? You mean ban them? That's the only way you can make them shut up.

Hardened veterans of the ideology wars take pains to avoid being banned.



What did you think this is? A debating society? This is a freaking political forum. How long have you been frequenting political forums?

There can never be open, informed debate. Nothing can be resolved and the friction will continue.

Unless it's an echo chamber. And this thread is about to become an echo chamber.

This is beyond parody.

Toontown is bemoaning the lack of open, honest, informed debate. There's no doubt that at least one person here is not particularly informed and insists on their own personal definition of Islamism which they rather dishonestly pretended is available on the "online dictionary" that they forgot to properly link to. Apparently "Islamism" is a religion founded in the 5th Century of the Calendar Era! And if you disagree then you will be pointed to an erroneous link before being told to forget the whole thing and stop persecuting, "browbeating" etc...


Look, Toontown, you do realize there is a difference between disagreeing with someone and browbeating, don't you? If you are shown to be actually, demonstrably ignorant of facts (not opinions, but facts!) then claiming persecution just makes you look silly. Yet you seem to have to double-down on your falsehoods and keep pretending you were right all along.
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Old 10th May 2012, 07:27 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
I said it was a boo-boo.
A boo-boo you made several posts trying (and failing miserably) to insist wasn't a boo-boo at all.

Quote:
It wouldn't have happened if my mind hadn't been on other things.
Maybe you ought to take a break and read up on things a bit before you post, then. At the very least, try reading the wikipedia articles you link to in your posts to understand how they don't actually support your incorrect claims. Preferably before you post said links.

Quote:
If you're trying for a major confession of a major, critical error, you'll be browbeating for a long time.
I'd settle for you simply reading this book that I recommended to you earlier. I'll even send you an Amazon gift card for the full price of the Kindle version, if you'll read it. I'll even send it via email to a completely anonymous email address of your choice.

I once made Skeptic the same offer, for this book. He never even responded to my offer. What will you do, Toontown?

Quote:
You'e lucky you got the boo-boo. That was a stroke of luck for you.
It's easy when you keep making these same "strokes of luck" over and over and over again.
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Old 10th May 2012, 07:29 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
That doesn't work. You get browbeaten anyway. The truth pisses people off much worse than a calendar boo-boo. There is hardly anything that pisses people off like the truth does.
Here's the problem; if what you're saying isn't actually true, then you're not telling the truth.
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Old 10th May 2012, 07:57 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
This is beyond parody.

Toontown is bemoaning the lack of open, honest, informed debate. There's no doubt that at least one person here is not particularly informed and insists on their own personal definition of Islamism which they rather dishonestly pretended is available on the "online dictionary" that they forgot to properly link to.
Aww. Poor diddums didn't get his link? Well, here it is:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Islamism

And here's the part I quoted, from the thesaurus section:

2. Islamism - the monotheistic religious system of Muslims founded in Arabia in the 7th century and based on the teachings of Muhammad as laid down in the Koran; "Islam is a complete way of life, not a Sunday religion"; "the term Muhammadanism is offensive to Muslims who believe that Allah, not Muhammad, founded their religion"


You could have found the link yourself by simply cutting and pasting the entire quote into the search field.

Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Apparently "Islamism" is a religion founded in the 5th Century of the Calendar Era! And if you disagree then you will be pointed to an erroneous link before being told to forget the whole thing and stop persecuting, "browbeating" etc...
That's right. People not prone to obsessive browbeating would have long since released the meatless bone of contention. It's nothing. There is nothing to it, and no rational reason to go on with it.

Unless you've got axes to grind and evens to be gotten. Which we know you do. You never did get over me handing you your head when you tried to interrogate me, did you.

Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Look, Toontown, you do realize there is a difference between disagreeing with someone and browbeating, don't you?
Yeah. And this is definitely browbeating.

Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
If you are shown to be actually, demonstrably ignorant of facts (not opinions, but facts!) then claiming persecution just makes you look silly. Yet you seem to have to double-down on your falsehoods and keep pretending you were right all along.
Are you blind? I've said several times now the calendar thing was a boo-boo, a hasty reading error. Yet on and on you go, nag, nag, nag, like an old cranky woman, even having the gall to talk about how (I) look silly.

Would you be Mollified if I cut off a finger and mailed it to you with a written apology and a promise to never make two calendar errors in a row again?

Sure looks like browbeating to me. Unless you're trying to compensate for something.
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Old 10th May 2012, 08:02 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Here's the problem; if what you're saying isn't actually true, then you're not telling the truth.
Lucky you're always there to tell me what the truth is.
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