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10th February 2017, 10:40 PM | #41 |
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The brown people in my community carry their papers, and it ain't because they're scared of stories. They get raids in my county about every six months. (My county has lots of migrant farm workers for the local vineyards, and the workers, for various reasons, grow roots and stay here.)
Your denial of this is fascinating. Again, it's great that you have never had a problem, but you are being obtuse claiming that no problem exists because you haven't personally experienced it. |
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10th February 2017, 10:41 PM | #42 |
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Is this the closest you can come to just admitting you were wrong, changing your assertion as if we wouldn't notice?
Originally Posted by xjx388
Think that young woman who gave a fake name had the legal council that was her right? The ones deported because ICE didn't believe them or they were naturalized citizens don't count as much as a citizen of your standing? A mentally disabled person doesn't deserve your imaginary **** storm? But we are also talking about legal US citizens, who committed no crimes in addition to the citizens you think don't count. Where's your, "I was mistaken, guess there wasn't any **** storm after all?" |
10th February 2017, 10:42 PM | #43 |
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Notice what the article is addressing: mostly citizens who were not born here who have trouble proving their citizenship. That's a bad situation but its a far cry from the FUD being promoted here.
I'll put it this way: in the extremely improbable case that people like me start getting rounded up by ICE, maybe I'll want to be deported. |
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10th February 2017, 10:47 PM | #44 |
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The thing that you are missing is this, these mistakes have been occurring when there wasn't a big push to catch and deport all illegals. The systems are already overworked and the safeguards all but non-existent.
The US already is deporting citizens because of this, how much worse will the problem get when the Trump machine to deport all illegals starts up? How are they going to determine who's illegal? Some of these people ended up in ICE custody for being picked up doing minor things and the cops deciding they weren't legal. How do you know that in a year's time when you get pulled over for speeding and can't produce evidence of your citizenship right there, that you might not end up in an ICE too? |
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10th February 2017, 10:47 PM | #45 |
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10th February 2017, 10:48 PM | #46 |
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What community is that? If it's Napa county (you mentioned vineyards) I've been there and I didn't fear ICE sweeping me up by mistake while they raided the vineyard I was touring. I certainly didn't carry my passport to California.
The Rio Grande Valley also gets Immigration raids with regularity. We are swarming with both illegals and ICE/CBP officers. You can't drive around without sing a CBP cruiser. I don't carry my papers. No one is coming for me. It's FUD spread through social media, crazy blogs and now, apparently, skeptic discussion forums. |
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10th February 2017, 10:50 PM | #47 |
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10th February 2017, 11:41 PM | #48 |
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I have no idea what you're trying to say, but I'm still pretty sure that you're wrong. -Akhenaten I sometimes think the Bible was inspired by Satan to make God look bad. And then it backfired on Him when He underestimated the stupidity of religious ideologues. -MontagK505 |
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11th February 2017, 12:06 AM | #49 |
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I'm certainly glad you're not being harassed, but I think you have got your logic backwards, as many people often do.
It is still true, for the most part, that being brown does not mean you stand a great likelihood of being harassed and deported. That number is still very small. But I think it also true that a disproportionate number of those deported and harassed are brown. That proportion is the issue. I've heard an argument like yours used often by those who have survived or escaped some hazard. I never had seatbelts, and I didn't die. Of course not. Most people don't. The ones who did aren't around. When disproportion becomes great enough that everyone in the targeted group has to worry, it's way way too late. |
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11th February 2017, 12:26 AM | #50 |
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11th February 2017, 12:29 AM | #51 |
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11th February 2017, 05:48 AM | #52 |
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My inclination is to think that major deficiencies in the system (and the examples cited by other posters certainly indicate major deficiencies) need to be fixed before any sort of major increase in deportations. I don't doubt that the vast majority of Latino US citizens have nothing to worry about, but the number of people with cognitive or psychological disabilities and the number of people involved in minor criminality (lesser vehicular offenses, misdemeanor drug possession, homeless people trespassing and such) is pretty large and I am worried that some of those folks could be put through immigration hassles for no good reason.
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11th February 2017, 07:46 AM | #54 |
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It may be a small point, but if you're driving around, it's pretty certain you do have identification. It would be unfortunate if you did not have a driver's license.
The question, though, is whether you should need identification if you're just walking down the street, or sitting in your house, or a passenger in someone else's car. We Americans are accustomed to the idea that you don't. And part of what is being discussed here is what may happen if you don't, and whether that situation is changing. I can pretty well guarantee that if I were stopped while walking down the street with no ID, I almost certainly would not be stopped, and if stopped, not hassled, and if hassled, certainly not deported. Of course, I'm pretty conspicuously not a minority person. And of course, most of the time in most places the same is true of people who are more conspicuously minorities, and glad we are of that. What a terrible and unliveable place this would be if that were not the case. XJX388 believes it's alarmist, or even false, to note the small but significant way the freedom we take for granted is being eroded by fear, prejudicial profiling, and xenophobia, while maintaining that if it did turn out to be true, he'd be ready to leave the country. I think that would be a great shame. I'd like to think he's right in dismissing news of the changing trends, but I rather suspect denial, and if he's wrong, late detection is too late. When my wife became a citizen one of the first and best liberties she enjoyed was that of never having to show papers to anyone. It's a point of some pride that she never takes ID anywhere if she's not driving. We Americans don't have to. I'd like to see that continue. It's one of the good things about the United States, and we'd hate to see it go. |
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Like many humorless and indignant people, he is hard on everybody but himself, and does not perceive it when he fails his own ideal (Molière) A pedant is a man who studies a vacuum through instruments that allow him to draw cross-sections of the details (John Ciardi) |
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11th February 2017, 08:24 AM | #55 |
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11th February 2017, 08:33 AM | #56 |
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All I'm saying is that we aren't going to have to go around showing papers to officials just because we are brown. The ICE raids in Austin, for example, didn't ensnare my son, uncle, cousins, etc who all live there. Suggesting that these kinds of enforcement actions are a sign of future problems for brown Americans is FUD.
The moment after I or any of the brown people I know gets hassled for papers, you will hear it here first. I'd also like to note that the instances of US Citizens wrongly detained and/or deported have been happening since way before Donald Trump even thought of running for President. This isn't a Trump-specific problem. |
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11th February 2017, 08:40 AM | #57 |
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11th February 2017, 08:43 AM | #58 |
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11th February 2017, 08:49 AM | #59 |
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I have no idea what you're trying to say, but I'm still pretty sure that you're wrong. -Akhenaten I sometimes think the Bible was inspired by Satan to make God look bad. And then it backfired on Him when He underestimated the stupidity of religious ideologues. -MontagK505 |
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11th February 2017, 08:56 AM | #60 |
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11th February 2017, 08:59 AM | #61 |
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I never said it was "OK." It's a bad situation that needs addressing. Those Citizens deserve all the rights that I enjoy. But, as I noted, it's been happening for a long time over many Administrations. This isn't a Trump-specific problem and Trump isn't going to order ICE to start rounding up all brown people, citizen or not.
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11th February 2017, 09:05 AM | #62 |
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I used to live in San Diego which has an estimated illegal population of 170,000. I can't imagine the damage that would be done if they were all deported. I, personally, like people, and think they should be able to go anywhere they want to. Not just where big governments decide they're allowed to
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11th February 2017, 09:06 AM | #63 |
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I'm amused, in a morbid sense, at the conservatives' general talk about the importance of hard work. Sometimes, it's a virtue second only to a love of Jesus. Now here's a woman who took several potentially significant risks just to work, to provide for her family, but that's bad, because she hadn't received a stamp of approval first. |
11th February 2017, 09:06 AM | #64 |
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That wasn't my post that you quoted but I certainly agree with the sentiments. Here is exactly what I take issue with:
No. Brown people aren't going to be harassed simply because they are brown and they look like wetbacks. It's just pure, politically motivated fearmongering. |
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11th February 2017, 09:13 AM | #66 |
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11th February 2017, 09:14 AM | #67 |
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11th February 2017, 09:20 AM | #68 |
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11th February 2017, 09:24 AM | #69 |
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11th February 2017, 09:25 AM | #70 |
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11th February 2017, 09:28 AM | #71 |
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11th February 2017, 09:30 AM | #72 |
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11th February 2017, 09:30 AM | #73 |
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If everyone waited for the perfect time to have children, no-one would ever have any. Biology doesn't ask if now is convenient, it just happens. Sometimes accidents just happen. Sometimes, and I'm not sure that this is true cos it sounds mental to me, it's not easy to obtain contraception. Why are you so very keen to believe the worst? |
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11th February 2017, 09:32 AM | #74 |
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11th February 2017, 09:38 AM | #75 |
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11th February 2017, 09:40 AM | #76 |
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11th February 2017, 09:40 AM | #77 |
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Well, a lot of people here do about their fellow members. Instead of arguing in good faith, or considering that their fellow members might have a legitimate concern about a hypothetical law-breaker rendering himself immune to a legal remedy by having children, they instead simply accuse those fellow members of being racist.
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11th February 2017, 09:41 AM | #78 |
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11th February 2017, 09:42 AM | #79 |
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11th February 2017, 09:43 AM | #80 |
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Waiting for a time when you're not at risk of being deported isn't waiting for "the perfect time".
Quote:
Quote:
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