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Tags donald trump , immigration incidents , immigration issues , racism charges

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Old 11th February 2017, 12:22 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by SusanB-M1 View Post
]

Recently, some men, British citizens of Pakistaniorigin were convicted of some horrendous crimes against girls. The decision was announced that they are to be deported. Unfortunately, what will come next is years of appeals and a hundred other problems that will be thought up and I wonder whether it will ever happen that they are deported. Their British citizenship can, or has been, revoked or something.
I have a strong suspicion from the description of what they appear to have done that I would prefer them being shipped back to Pakistan and being dropped from aircraft several thousand feet up without parachutes. There are and they are things for which I have no tolerance.
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Old 11th February 2017, 12:23 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
I have a strong suspicion from the description of what they appear to have done that I would prefer them being shipped back to Pakistan and
dropped from aircraft several thousand feet up without parachutes. There are and they are things for which I have no tolerance.
I am, of course, not concerned about their citizenship.
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Old 11th February 2017, 12:29 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That is not a supportable reason to claim they aren't prejudiced. Even in Mexico there is serious bigotry often depending on how Spanish compared to how Mestizo you look. And more than a few Hispanics have sided against undocumented immigrants.


That went without saying.
FTFY for accuracy emphasis. The US is not the only country where people just have to have someones to look down on. Even me - I look down on republickers-
though not real Republicans - there are now so few of them.
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Old 11th February 2017, 01:16 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
You walk around without any identification? Isn't that kind of stupid?
NO. I don't think so. If you're minding your own business, you simply should not need it. One can fault people for failing to take some precautions when they know that there are criminals on the loose who might victimize them. So far, at least, in this country, we have not needed to treat the authorities as dangerous criminals. If that changes, it will be too bad.

e.t.a. I realize that we live in a different part of the world from Fudbucker, and can only commiserate that he lives in what appears to be a hell on earth where one must be scared of everything.

When I did a lot of road cycling, I never took ID. I did have my name and emergency information on my helmet, which is how the rescue squad knew to call my wife when I ended my last ride on the pavement. You should not need official ID for this kind of thing. In Arizona, I read, people have been detained for not showing their birth certificates.

If you're so scared of criminals, or of dropping unconscious to the pavement, or whatever, that you feel you must carry ID, then go for it. Nobody is stopping you. Just don't make the rest of us live in a police state to allay your fears.
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Last edited by bruto; 11th February 2017 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 11th February 2017, 01:29 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
NO. I don't think so. If you're minding your own business, you simply should not need it. One can fault people for failing to take some precautions when they know that there are criminals on the loose who might victimize them. So far, at least, in this country, we have not needed to treat the authorities as dangerous criminals. If that changes, it will be too bad.
Your paragraph doesn't make sense. Americans carry ID because without it you can't drive, buy alcohol/smokes, get into a club, get prescriptions (and even some over-the-counter meds), rent a motel room, board a plane, or have your loved ones alerted if a medical emergency happens.
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Old 11th February 2017, 01:37 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
I'm worried more about discrimination against me- I'm white, now the #2 minority in California.

Wouldn't this be exactly the reason you should be concerned about discrimination of minorities?
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Old 11th February 2017, 01:49 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
have your loved ones alerted if a medical emergency happens.
This looks ridiculous right after 'bruto's post.
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Old 11th February 2017, 02:25 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Your paragraph doesn't make sense. Americans carry ID because without it you can't drive, buy alcohol/smokes, get into a club, get prescriptions (and even some over-the-counter meds), rent a motel room, board a plane, or have your loved ones alerted if a medical emergency happens.
So if I have no intention of doing any of those things?

Also, there are cases where someone having an ID on them didn't stop them from being taken into custody. A driver's license doesn't establish lawful presence or citizenship status.

So we all need to carry around our birth certificates now? Or, people of certain complexion at least...
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Old 11th February 2017, 02:29 PM   #129
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Some kind of badge, or a patch sewn on to a coat maybe.
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Old 11th February 2017, 02:32 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
FTFY for accuracy emphasis. The US is not the only country where people just have to have someones to look down on. Even me - I look down on republickers-
though not real Republicans - there are now so few of them.
My original: Even in Mexico there is serious bigotry often depending on how Spanish compared to how Mestizo you look.

Your changed version: Even in Mexico there is serious bigotry often depending on how Spanish compared to how Mestizo you look.



You mean you added emphasis? Nitpick: to do that you highlight whatever and following the quote add, (emphasis mine).

We all have our biases.
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Old 11th February 2017, 03:37 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Your paragraph doesn't make sense. Americans carry ID because without it you can't drive, buy alcohol/smokes, get into a club, get prescriptions (and even some over-the-counter meds), rent a motel room, board a plane, or have your loved ones alerted if a medical emergency happens.
And yet you edited out the very part where I pointed out that I DID NOT NEED TO CARRY ID when a medical emergency happened. I was not driving, buying alcohol, renting a room, etc. etc. Americans choose to carry ID when it's useful. I do, of course, most of the time. I always do when I drive, because it's legally required. But my wife does not when she is not driving. Why should she? We don't carry it when we're out on bicycles, or skiiing, or walking around. Why should we? We're Americans. Unless we're suspected of a sppecific crime, we expect not to be treated as generic criminals.

Of course, it's convenient, and even necessary to carry ID much of the time. But even for those occasions, with the exception of driving, the use of an ID is not to satisfy the non-specific suspicions of government officials. It's to do other things for which ID is needed or useful. Whether I'm carrying it or not, no government official has the right to demand spontaneously that I have it or show it, and when they do have the right to demand some ID such as a license, they have no right to demand anything else. I do not have to carry a birth certificate, a passport, or a social security card, or anything but my license when I drive.

When we fly, we need a passport or an enhanced driver's license. But we do not need to document them. We do not need to produce a birth certificate or other evidence that those documents are correct.

Quite simply, I think that if you're not being arrested for a crime, it is unamerican to be treated as a criminal. I'd contend that it's at least close to that if you're being arrested for a routine offense, to be treated as a criminal suspect for another. I know that as a white, anglo, middle aged man, the few times I've been arrested for speeding no cop ever asked for proof of my identity or citizenship, and that is as it should be for everyone. Of course in so doing there's the likelihood that some illegals will get a pass, but the alternative is, in my mind, worse.
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Old 11th February 2017, 04:00 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
And yet you edited out the very part where I pointed out that I DID NOT NEED TO CARRY ID when a medical emergency happened. I was not driving, buying alcohol, renting a room, etc. etc. Americans choose to carry ID when it's useful. I do, of course, most of the time. I always do when I drive, because it's legally required. But my wife does not when she is not driving. Why should she? We don't carry it when we're out on bicycles, or skiiing, or walking around. Why should we? We're Americans. Unless we're suspected of a sppecific crime, we expect not to be treated as generic criminals.

Of course, it's convenient, and even necessary to carry ID much of the time. But even for those occasions, with the exception of driving, the use of an ID is not to satisfy the non-specific suspicions of government officials. It's to do other things for which ID is needed or useful. Whether I'm carrying it or not, no government official has the right to demand spontaneously that I have it or show it, and when they do have the right to demand some ID such as a license, they have no right to demand anything else. I do not have to carry a birth certificate, a passport, or a social security card, or anything but my license when I drive.

When we fly, we need a passport or an enhanced driver's license. But we do not need to document them. We do not need to produce a birth certificate or other evidence that those documents are correct.

Quite simply, I think that if you're not being arrested for a crime, it is unamerican to be treated as a criminal. I'd contend that it's at least close to that if you're being arrested for a routine offense, to be treated as a criminal suspect for another. I know that as a white, anglo, middle aged man, the few times I've been arrested for speeding no cop ever asked for proof of my identity or citizenship, and that is as it should be for everyone. Of course in so doing there's the likelihood that some illegals will get a pass, but the alternative is, in my mind, worse.
The bolded, of course, was my point: Americans carry ID around because it's convenient and often necessary.

When I ski and see all those people whipping out ID's and buying booze, they're the weird ones. Or afraid of a police state. Or something.
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Old 11th February 2017, 04:05 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
This looks ridiculous right after 'bruto's post.
What, carrying an ID around in case of medical emergencies? You're joking, right?
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Old 11th February 2017, 07:47 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
The bolded, of course, was my point: Americans carry ID around because it's convenient and often necessary.

When I ski and see all those people whipping out ID's and buying booze, they're the weird ones. Or afraid of a police state. Or something.
That may have been your point, but it was badly expressed, since you stated outright that to "walk around without identification" is stupid, and implied, at least, that to do so at any time is not appropriate. My point, should you care to notice it, is that to carry ID for many purposes has little to do with the issue of whether government officials are entitled to demand it. They are not. And your last, facetious sentences quoted above seem to make a point of missing the point.
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Old 11th February 2017, 07:53 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
What, carrying an ID around in case of medical emergencies? You're joking, right?
No, my post made it clear that an ID is not necessary, at least in the sense we usually use the word "ID," and in the sense that those who demand to see ID mean it.

I made it, I thought, abundantly clear that I did not EVER carry ID when cycling, but did ALWAYS have my name and number on my helmet and in my tool bag. The result was exactly as it should have been. The cop looked at the number in the helmet, called my wife, and she was at the hospital when I woke up.*

I hope you're not going to be an absolute idiot and pretend to believe that when an Arizona policeman confonts a person suspected of illegal immigration, he's going to accept the name tag in his hat as "ID."

* e.t.a. by the way, nice cop, a state trooper. Scooped up my stuff off the road, checked up later.
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Last edited by bruto; 11th February 2017 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 11th February 2017, 07:53 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
My original: Even in Mexico there is serious bigotry often depending on how Spanish compared to how Mestizo you look.

Your changed version: Even in Mexico there is serious bigotry often depending on how Spanish compared to how Mestizo you look.



You mean you added emphasis? Nitpick: to do that you highlight whatever and following the quote add, (emphasis mine).

We all have our biases.
Yep, I meant to add emphasis!!!!So I reded it!!!
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Old 11th February 2017, 08:09 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
The person just elected promotes ideas that are the antithesis to skepticism. He has created a backlash among scientists. He also, to put it mildly, rather sensative to even trivial criticism or portrayals in less than glowing terms. His selected team is rather suspect in motive and or competence. He is reportedly and self expressed to be not having patience for details.

These things have not gone unnoticed by foreign politicians. While there is some over reaction, he has been a suboptimal choice.
Very, unbelieveably suboptimal. Actually it qualifies as subminimal.
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Old 11th February 2017, 09:26 PM   #138
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The Arizona situation is troubling. Had it been me I would have been suing the pants off of ICE for civil rights violations. It's ********** up for sure and extremely depressing that this wasn't big news when it happened. I can't find any further development. I would hope the officers in question were disciplined and that the victim got some kind of compensation.

But this happened in 2010, under Obama's watch. I guess mistakes and even egregious civil rights under his admin weren't newsworthy. Can you imagine now?
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Old 11th February 2017, 09:30 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
The Arizona situation is troubling. Had it been me I would have been suing the pants off of ICE for civil rights violations. It's ********** up for sure and extremely depressing that this wasn't big news when it happened. I can't find any further development. I would hope the officers in question were disciplined and that the victim got some kind of compensation.

But this happened in 2010, under Obama's watch. I guess mistakes and even egregious civil rights under his admin weren't newsworthy. Can you imagine now?
Yep, mistakes happen. You going to admit you were wrong when Trump overkill deporting low priority undocumented immigrants and mistakes get worse and worse?

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Old 11th February 2017, 10:19 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Yep, mistakes happen. You going to admit you were wrong when Trump overkill deporting low priority undocumented immigrants and mistakes get worse and worse?

If improper deportations of US citizens rises under Trump, I won't just admit I was wrong, I will start carrying my passport everywhere. I'll also engage in activism for the civil rights of US citizens.

As for illegal immigrants, I support increased deportation.

ETA: Increased deportation and mistakes don't necessarily go hand in hand. Proper investigation along with training on awareness of actions that can be improper should be part of any increased deportation plan.
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Old 11th February 2017, 10:34 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
If improper deportations of US citizens rises under Trump, I won't just admit I was wrong, I will start carrying my passport everywhere. I'll also engage in activism for the civil rights of US citizens.

As for illegal immigrants, I support increased deportation.

ETA: Increased deportation and mistakes don't necessarily go hand in hand. Proper investigation along with training on awareness of actions that can be improper should be part of any increased deportation plan.
Define your parameters, given we've already documented an increase under Trump.

Do you not give a crap about a mother of two US citizens, who had been here since she was 16, deported because 8 years ago she tried to work using a false SSN?

Are you only counting an increase in false deportations?
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Old 11th February 2017, 11:01 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Or collapse while jogging.

8 things you should carry on a run
1. Identification. Running with some sort of ID is a must — especially if you have allergies or a medical conditions. In an emergency situation, this is how first responders will identify you and get a hold of your loved ones.

http://blog.walkjogrun.net/2013/06/2...eed-for-a-run/

But yeah, totally the same as getting sawn up by a whacko.
...can you take a guess why a joggers website would have to post an article recommending that joggers take ID with them when they jog?

Its because joggers don't take ID with them when they jog. Just like most joggers don't stash money in their shoes. Or routinely carry self-defense items.

Your cite doesn't prove your point. It disproves your point. It literally recommends not taking your licence with you, but to take "ID wrist bands, ankle bands, or pendants that clip on your shoe detailing your emergency info". I very much doubt that an ankle band with a name and address is the sort of ID we are talking about here.
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Old 11th February 2017, 11:36 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Define your parameters, given we've already documented an increase under Trump.

Do you not give a crap about a mother of two US citizens, who had been here since she was 16, deported because 8 years ago she tried to work using a false SSN?

Are you only counting an increase in false deportations?
Deportations of US citizens is the subject of hyperbole on this thread and what I take issue with. There's no evidence those are increasing.

Do I give a crap about illegal immigrants being deported? Not really. Illegal aliens should be deported. It's sad that they are in the position they are in. They should be low priority and I support paths to at least residence for people in her position. But if I used a fake SSN for any purpose, I would face jail time. Those are the risks you take, unfortunately.
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Old 11th February 2017, 11:51 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Define your parameters, given we've already documented an increase under Trump.

Do you not give a crap about a mother of two US citizens, who had been here since she was 16, deported because 8 years ago she tried to work using a false SSN?

Are you only counting an increase in false deportations?
Their citizenship was obtained via her unlawful actions. Revoke their citizenship and deport them with her.

Overturn the incorrect ruling by a single judge in the 1980's declaring this birthright citizenship nonsense. Revoke all citizenship obtained via this farce when the parent or parents were illegal aliens.

Tabulate how much she cost American taxpayers during her time here, and including any costs her children generated, and send an invoice to Mexico.
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Old 12th February 2017, 12:15 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Deportations of US citizens is the subject of hyperbole on this thread and what I take issue with. There's no evidence those are increasing.
So you just dismiss the CA legislator who reports being told the ICE arrests were the usual 100 or so but it turned out 160 were arrested?

Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Do I give a crap about illegal immigrants being deported? Not really. Illegal aliens should be deported. It's sad that they are in the position they are in. They should be low priority and I support paths to at least residence for people in her position. But if I used a fake SSN for any purpose, I would face jail time. Those are the risks you take, unfortunately.
Yes, you've already made it clear you find ways to justify they are not like you, therefore they don't matter.
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Old 12th February 2017, 12:21 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So you just dismiss the CA legislator who reports being told the ICE arrests were the usual 100 or so but it turned out 160 were arrested?
Increased deportations of illegal immigrants is a good thing in my book. Call me when they start deporting US citizens only on the basis of being brown.

Quote:
Yes, you've already made it clear you find ways to justify they are not like you, therefore they don't matter.
They aren't like me. They are illegal immigrants. I want all illegal immigrants deported at some point. However, I would support an amnesty type of program for people like this woman.
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Old 12th February 2017, 12:26 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Increased deportations of illegal immigrants is a good thing in my book. Call me when they start deporting US citizens only on the basis of being brown.
You noticed how you shifted again here from, "There's no evidence those are increasing," to "Increased deportations of illegal immigrants is a good thing"?


Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
They aren't like me. They are illegal immigrants. I want all illegal immigrants deported at some point. However, I would support an amnesty type of program for people like this woman.
You seem to have of thread of embarrassment about your bigotry that you can't quite reconcile.
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Old 12th February 2017, 12:42 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...can you take a guess why a joggers website would have to post an article recommending that joggers take ID with them when they jog?

Its because joggers don't take ID with them when they jog. Just like most joggers don't stash money in their shoes. Or routinely carry self-defense items.

Your cite doesn't prove your point. It disproves your point. It literally recommends not taking your licence with you, but to take "ID wrist bands, ankle bands, or pendants that clip on your shoe detailing your emergency info". I very much doubt that an ankle band with a name and address is the sort of ID we are talking about here.
My point was about ID in general. Doubt was raised about the prevalence of Americans going around without any ID on them. Very few Americans go out-and-about without some form of ID.
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Old 12th February 2017, 01:21 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
My point was about ID in general.
...and your cite disproves your point.

Quote:
Doubt was raised about the prevalence of Americans going around without any ID on them.
And that doubt is reasonable yes?

Quote:
Very few Americans go out-and-about without some form of ID.
Well yes, you keep repeating this. But they are merely assertions. People doubt your assertions and have asked you to back it up. And here you are, yet again, repeating assertions.

I don't believe you. There is enough anecdotal evidence in this thread alone to counter your assertions.

But lets assume that what you say is true for a minute. What percentage of Americans do you believe have ID on them all of the time? 80%? More or less than that?
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Old 12th February 2017, 01:45 AM   #150
Fudbucker
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...and your cite disproves your point.
No.
Identification. Running with some sort of ID is a must



Quote:
And that doubt is reasonable yes?
Not really.


Quote:
Well yes, you keep repeating this. But they are merely assertions. People doubt your assertions and have asked you to back it up. And here you are, yet again, repeating assertions.
Quote:
I don't believe you. There is enough anecdotal evidence in this thread alone to counter your assertions.


Quote:
But lets assume that what you say is true for a minute. What percentage of Americans do you believe have ID on them all of the time? 80%? More or less than that?
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Old 12th February 2017, 02:03 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
No.
Identification. Running with some sort of ID is a must
...and the article specifically says that the ID shouldn't be your drivers licence.

So how exactly is a piece of paper I printed myself that says "who I am" relevant to this thread? When an Immigration Officer asks me for ID: is that the sort of ID they would be expecting? My contact details are on my cellphone. My cellphone goes with me everywhere. My wallet and my drivers licence do not. Is my cellphone sufficient ID?

Quote:
Not really.
Not really? So you mean just a little bit yes, don't you?

Quote:
Give me a break dude. "I know of no one that deliberately walks around with no ID" is an anecdote: and so far it is the entirety of your argument. "I don't walk around with ID" is a perfectly sufficient counter anecdote to the anecdote that you used.
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Old 12th February 2017, 02:47 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...and the article specifically says that the ID shouldn't be your drivers licence.

So how exactly is a piece of paper I printed myself that says "who I am" relevant to this thread? When an Immigration Officer asks me for ID: is that the sort of ID they would be expecting? My contact details are on my cellphone. My cellphone goes with me everywhere. My wallet and my drivers licence do not. Is my cellphone sufficient ID?



Not really? So you mean just a little bit yes, don't you?



Give me a break dude. "I know of no one that deliberately walks around with no ID" is an anecdote: and so far it is the entirety of your argument. "I don't walk around with ID" is a perfectly sufficient counter anecdote to the anecdote that you used.
There is no data to point to. You have to live here to understand it. No one, afaik, has done a study on the prevalence of ID-carrying. I can tell you, after living here for 40+ years, carrying ID around becomes an ingrained habit because it's so convenient and necessary. I can list the myriad situations where you can get totally jammed up if you don't have any. You can infer, from the prevalence of situations where ID is required and from articles like this, foreigners are advised to always carry ID on them, that Americans generally follow the same advice given to Brits: always carry an ID. But if you want to think there are great masses of ID-less Americans wandering about, be my guest.

Last edited by Fudbucker; 12th February 2017 at 02:48 AM.
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Old 12th February 2017, 02:56 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
There is no data to point to.
...but there is enough data available to show that you are wrong.

Quote:
You have to live here to understand it.
People "living there" do understand it, and they have told you that you are wrong.

Quote:
No one, afaik, has done a study on the prevalence of ID-carrying. I can tell you, after living here for 40+ years, carrying ID around becomes an ingrained habit because it's so convenient and necessary.
This is an anecdote. That has already been countered by other people in this thread.

Quote:
I can list the myriad situations where you can get totally jammed up if you don't have any. You can infer, from the prevalence of situations where ID is required and from articles like this, foreigners are advised to always carry ID on them, that Americans generally follow the same advice given to Brits: always carry an ID.
And I can infer from articles like these that ID is not easy for all Americans to get: and that not every American has ID.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.2c727bd79570

https://thinkprogress.org/this-is-ho...a88#.2p8p2zsna

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/ar...ve-a-voter-id/


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But if you want to think there are great masses of ID-less Americans wandering about, be my guest.
Well thanks for your permission to hold my own opinion, but it is not necessary.
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Old 12th February 2017, 03:07 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...but there is enough data available to show that you are wrong.



People "living there" do understand it, and they have told you that you are wrong.



This is an anecdote. That has already been countered by other people in this thread.



And I can infer from articles like these that ID is not easy for all Americans to get: and that not every American has ID.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.2c727bd79570

https://thinkprogress.org/this-is-ho...a88#.2p8p2zsna

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/ar...ve-a-voter-id/




Well thanks for your permission to hold my own opinion, but it is not necessary.
"Across the country, about 11 percent of Americans do not have government-issued photo identification cards, such as a driver’s license or a passport, according to Wendy Weiser of the Democracy Program at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.6ae1379a3fc9

I don't think you bothered to read your sources. The vast vast majority of Americans have ID's. This is a pointless derail, you don't seem to know what you're talking about, and I've become bored with it.
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Old 12th February 2017, 03:25 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
"Across the country, about 11 percent of Americans do not have government-issued photo identification cards, such as a driver’s license or a passport, according to Wendy Weiser of the Democracy Program at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.6ae1379a3fc9

I don't think you bothered to read your sources.
...I think you are wrong.

Quote:
The vast vast majority of Americans have ID's.
That wasn't your assertion. Your assertion was that "I know of no one that deliberately walks around with no ID": which was countered by the assertion "I don't walk around with ID".

34 million people don't have any form of ID at all. That is a ****-load of people. 34 million people walk around with no ID. Then you add in all the people like those in this thread, who have told you that they routinely don't have ID on them. And all the joggers, who leave their drivers licences at home. And just with those two groups alone we can extrapolate a number where it is completely expected that people will be out and about with no ID.

You are wrong. Plain and simple.

Quote:
This is a pointless derail, you don't seem to know what you're talking about, and I've become bored with it.
It doesn't surprise me that you are getting bored of being proven wrong. But the derail is entirely your fault: one that you concede when you state "there is no data to point to." In the absence of data: why are you continuing to insist that your anecdote is universal?
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Old 12th February 2017, 03:34 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...I think you are wrong.



That wasn't your assertion. Your assertion was that "I know of no one that deliberately walks around with no ID": which was countered by the assertion "I don't walk around with ID".

34 million people don't have any form of ID at all. That is a ****-load of people. 34 million people walk around with no ID. Then you add in all the people like those in this thread, who have told you that they routinely don't have ID on them. And all the joggers, who leave their drivers licences at home. And just with those two groups alone we can extrapolate a number where it is completely expected that people will be out and about with no ID.

You are wrong. Plain and simple.



It doesn't surprise me that you are getting bored of being proven wrong. But the derail is entirely your fault: one that you concede when you state "there is no data to point to." In the absence of data: why are you continuing to insist that your anecdote is universal?
I couldn't resist. You multiplied the population of America by 11% to get your figure of 34 million. LOL.

Yes, there are millions of babies "walking around with no ID's". This is a travesty, of course, completely refutes my point, and is a clear attempt by the GOP to disenfranchise children. Something must be done.
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Old 12th February 2017, 03:51 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
This is a travesty, of course, completely refutes my point
...I'm glad that you finally concede the point.
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Old 12th February 2017, 04:28 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by willim View Post
Wow.

Folks here need to take a step back, and try to regain a grip on reality.

Just look at your own posts and listen to yourselves. You claim to be skeptics, yet you surrender yourselves to unsubstantiated panic driven rumors without even attempting to verify anything found elsewhere, or presented here.

I developed a respect for this site over the years because of the fact-based emotionless responses made to the 9/11 truthers. You folks shut those people down, you went with the facts, and you looked good doing it.

But now, I see many of those same people giving in to and going along with the same type of baseless garbage the truthers did simply because the person who you wanted to win the election, didn't.

This used to be a go-to place for objective facts that I would recommend to others, but I could not make that same recommendation now.
Ya know, I've been checking over your posts in the Politics sub-sections and I don't see a whole lot of evidenced-based commentary. 16.5, now d.b.a. The Big Dog was one of the best 911 Truth debunkers we had early on. So was Wildcat. I was pretty good at it, too.

It's not really possible to post on party politics without bringing in your personal biases, opinions and tastes. Politics is, after all, virtually all "opinion".

What you meant to say is "Wow. You people don't agree with me so you seem all like illogical and stuff."
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Old 12th February 2017, 08:24 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You noticed how you shifted again here from, "There's no evidence those are increasing," to "Increased deportations of illegal immigrants is a good thing"?


You seem to have of thread of embarrassment about your bigotry that you can't quite reconcile.
Noticed that!!! Interesting!!!!
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Old 12th February 2017, 09:54 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Their citizenship was obtained via her unlawful actions. Revoke their citizenship and deport them with her.

Overturn the incorrect ruling by a single judge in the 1980's declaring this birthright citizenship nonsense. Revoke all citizenship obtained via this farce when the parent or parents were illegal aliens.

Tabulate how much she cost American taxpayers during her time here, and including any costs her children generated, and send an invoice to Mexico.
If you believe any violation of law should be enough to deport a person, would you do so for Melania Trump, who violated labor laws while a visitor? Should not one revoke her citizenship? Cost to taxpayers? Send the invoice to the Donald.

Of course I'm sure you'd be happy to revoke the 14th amendment, since it goes contrary to so many of your stated priciples, but birthright citizenship is built into that, and it goes a bit prior to the 1980's, I think. And whether it's right or not, good or not, an oversight or not, the 14th amendment does not specify that the parents of a native born American be legal.
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