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12th February 2017, 11:01 AM | #161 |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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12th February 2017, 11:36 AM | #162 |
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Like many humorless and indignant people, he is hard on everybody but himself, and does not perceive it when he fails his own ideal (Molière) A pedant is a man who studies a vacuum through instruments that allow him to draw cross-sections of the details (John Ciardi) |
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12th February 2017, 12:41 PM | #163 |
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"Amendment XIV Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,.... "
Some believe that the "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" part means the parent must be here legally. Like on a visa. Has it ever been parsed by the courts? Or does 'under the jurisdiction' mean section 1 does not count in foreign countries? eta Or maybe it means you are not a citizen if you are not on American Soil? Or maybe it means you are a citizen if born in the Canal Zone? (Does the canal Zone still exist?) |
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Any sufficiently advanced idea is indistinguishable from idiocy to those who don't actually understanding the concept. |
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12th February 2017, 01:38 PM | #164 |
Nasty Woman
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Where is this one judge's ruling in 1980 nonsense coming from?
Wiki is chock full of legal rulings and laws, including the 14th Amendment that address birthright citizenship and there is nothing about one judge in 1980. That has to be some really far fetched alt-right Infowars or Breitbart lie. |
12th February 2017, 01:41 PM | #165 |
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12th February 2017, 02:31 PM | #166 |
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Quote:
Are they driving around picking up people at random? No, they are not. Is this thread just a giant straw man?
Quote:
Personally, I'm more about keeping people out that rounding up everyone who is already here. However if they are known criminals, I'm fine with it. For the people here walking around without ID, you might consider carrying one for a lot of reasons. I'm thinking medical emergencies mainly. Then again, people are not being pulled over at random and arrested because they are "brown" and look like non-citizens. Or is there a new policy I am unaware of? If Americans start getting caught up in deportations at an alarming rate then that would be a concern. |
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Why bother? |
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12th February 2017, 02:33 PM | #167 |
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I'm alarmed by any rate of Americans caught up in deportations.
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Normal is just a stereotype. |
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12th February 2017, 02:57 PM | #168 |
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I have no idea what you're trying to say, but I'm still pretty sure that you're wrong. -Akhenaten I sometimes think the Bible was inspired by Satan to make God look bad. And then it backfired on Him when He underestimated the stupidity of religious ideologues. -MontagK505 |
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12th February 2017, 03:06 PM | #169 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Or a number tattooed on. You can't leaver home without it! And in case of mass death, it would readily identify your body.
Maybe do it on a fore arm, where the aurthorities can readily see it, then no unwarranted search needed. "Roll up your sleeves" doesn't seem like an unreasonable request. |
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Any sufficiently advanced idea is indistinguishable from idiocy to those who don't actually understanding the concept. |
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12th February 2017, 03:11 PM | #170 |
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So the mother of two US citizens who had a felony conviction for using a fake SSN in 2008 and voluntarily went in for her 8th annual check-in with ICE counts as a violent felon I suppose?
That alarming rate even beats the callousness of xjx388's if they're not like me they don't matter criteria. |
12th February 2017, 03:14 PM | #171 |
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I believe territories count, and when the Canal Zone was a territory it would have. It's no longer a territory.
The issue of jurisdiction is debated. I don't think it's been definitively decided. It's been to the Supreme Court only in the case of legal immigrants and former slaves, as far as I know. They have declined some cases on this, including, it seems, one that might have overturned the racist exclusion of natives of American Samoa. It appears that the amendment was worded initially to exclude those born in Indian territory, who were later added by statute. There appears to be some dispute as to whether this law would also exclude children of parents who owe allegiance to another country via dual citizenship, or whether it would only apply if such allegiance were claimed for them, or neither. Given that many children who are indisputably citizens owing to one or another factor also still enjoy inherent dual citizenship if they want it, puts a few worms in that can. In general, it seems that the jurisdiction clause is interpreted to mean that a person owes his loyalty only to the United States, and, aside from the shameful exclusion of Indians in its original form, and Samoans now, it would exclude the children of diplomats and tourists and others who do not intend themselves or their children to be American or to be subject to American jurisdiction. The status of illegal immigrants is, obviously, a little ambiguous, but along with the argument that an illegal immigrant is not a legal resident, one could also argue that when birthright citizenship is claimed, the intent is clearly for that person be a citizen. |
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Like many humorless and indignant people, he is hard on everybody but himself, and does not perceive it when he fails his own ideal (Molière) A pedant is a man who studies a vacuum through instruments that allow him to draw cross-sections of the details (John Ciardi) |
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12th February 2017, 03:16 PM | #172 |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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12th February 2017, 03:17 PM | #173 |
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Let's be frank: if the illegals were White Canadians,we would not be having this discussion.
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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12th February 2017, 04:11 PM | #174 |
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12th February 2017, 04:12 PM | #175 |
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Plus this 'just carry your ID on you' thing is still missing the point. The most frequently carried form of ID (driver's license) does not constitute proof of citizenship or lawful residence.
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12th February 2017, 05:26 PM | #176 |
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It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) |
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12th February 2017, 05:45 PM | #177 |
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12th February 2017, 05:48 PM | #178 |
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Like many humorless and indignant people, he is hard on everybody but himself, and does not perceive it when he fails his own ideal (Molière) A pedant is a man who studies a vacuum through instruments that allow him to draw cross-sections of the details (John Ciardi) |
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12th February 2017, 05:50 PM | #179 |
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12th February 2017, 05:52 PM | #180 |
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On the other hand, you must know that law enforcement is going to result in innocent people being targeted. That is inevitable and the fact that it happens occasionally shouldn't dissuade us from enforcing laws, unless the number of innocents being hassled reaches alarming levels.
For the record, I don't agree we should have deported that mother. People who have been here for awhile, whose only crime is trying to make it easier to work, should pay some restitution and have a chance to become permanent residents. That being said, when you come into a country illegally, you takes your chances. |
12th February 2017, 06:52 PM | #181 |
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12th February 2017, 06:53 PM | #182 |
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I would point out, again, that most did not enter the country illegally, but overstayed a visa, which is a civil offense, not criminal.
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12th February 2017, 07:05 PM | #183 |
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12th February 2017, 07:10 PM | #184 |
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I have no idea what you're trying to say, but I'm still pretty sure that you're wrong. -Akhenaten I sometimes think the Bible was inspired by Satan to make God look bad. And then it backfired on Him when He underestimated the stupidity of religious ideologues. -MontagK505 |
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12th February 2017, 07:11 PM | #185 |
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I have no idea what you're trying to say, but I'm still pretty sure that you're wrong. -Akhenaten I sometimes think the Bible was inspired by Satan to make God look bad. And then it backfired on Him when He underestimated the stupidity of religious ideologues. -MontagK505 |
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12th February 2017, 07:19 PM | #186 |
Penultimate Amazing
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As Delphic Oracle pointed out the definition of white changes to suit prejudiced needs. Eighteenth century views of whiteness were very different. Take Benjamin Franklin's essay Observations Concerning the Increase of Mankind, Peopling of Countries, etc.
Quote:
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12th February 2017, 07:21 PM | #187 |
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12th February 2017, 07:34 PM | #188 |
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The modern equivalent is 'dusky' if I'm not mistaken. It's the 'exotic' allure.
I have a friend who works at a bar (so she is frequently updated on the latest superficial dehumanization lingo). A few weeks ago I was sipping my whiskey when someone getting a drink said "damn honey, what exotic locale are you from?" She fired back without missing a beat, "I'm a native, you colonialist prick, now get off my land." My nostrils are still burning. |
12th February 2017, 08:08 PM | #189 |
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Like many humorless and indignant people, he is hard on everybody but himself, and does not perceive it when he fails his own ideal (Molière) A pedant is a man who studies a vacuum through instruments that allow him to draw cross-sections of the details (John Ciardi) |
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12th February 2017, 08:22 PM | #190 |
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12th February 2017, 08:36 PM | #191 |
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12th February 2017, 08:50 PM | #192 |
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12th February 2017, 10:07 PM | #193 |
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Oh, all those poor, poor illegal border-crossers. A small group of people was temporarily inconvenienced, and ironically, it was the Looney Tune
Left wing snowflakes that made their suffering all the worse by raising such a stink. No one has a God-given right, or any kind of right, to be here except those that are born of birth or the old-fashioned way...LEGALLY!!! What a radical concept for your average snowflake to boggle his/her brainpan. How about border control, and immigration in general. |
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12th February 2017, 10:29 PM | #194 |
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12th February 2017, 10:31 PM | #195 |
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12th February 2017, 10:34 PM | #196 |
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The Australian Family Association's John Morrissey was aghast when he learned Jessica Watson was bidding to become the youngest person to sail round the world alone, unaided and without stopping. |
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12th February 2017, 10:36 PM | #197 |
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Sure, like the same we legally showed up and legally planted a flag in the legally claimed ground and then legally wiped out 90%+ of the existing inhabitants.
Yes, our statements of support for people just trying to survive in this world compelled the agencies in question into doing this, they simply had no choice after that! |
12th February 2017, 10:44 PM | #198 |
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If they aren't illegal, then they shouldn't be deported. If they are illegal, they should be deported. You say callious; I say good immigration policy.
Isn't it callous when we imprison US Citizens who who have kids who use fake SSNs for credit fraud? What's the point of laws if we aren't going to enforce them? |
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Hello. |
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12th February 2017, 10:50 PM | #199 |
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She was already caught and there was already a process determined acceptable for her to make restitution for it. Now, despite her compliance with that process, she is to be given a punishment far worse than what the crime you refer to would impose.
Seriously, if most of you 'no mercy/absolute letter of the law' types actually had to live under that kind of system, you probably wouldn't last. It's just that it's easy to make claims like that when you're relatively assured it wouldn't ever actually be turned against you. Also, once again the language usage in which a person is described as being illegal. Not even hiding behind the 'immigrant' part now, illegal is directly applied as an adjective to the person. |
12th February 2017, 10:56 PM | #200 |
Nasty Woman
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It's callous when a 16 yr old girl is brought here by her parents. And the US lets her live her life here. Then when she's an adult, married with two kids, and she has no avenue open to become a legal citizen or even a legal worker, she tries to work, gets caught, and probably with inadequate legal council pleads guilty to a felony (clearly overkill considering the offense). One of the stipulations is she has to check in once a year to ICE, which she does for 8 years. Until Trump.
And what Delphic Oracle says above. Yes, IMO, your POV is worse than callous. But I don't expect you to see it that way. |
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