|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
28th April 2017, 11:12 AM | #121 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,929
|
Quote:
Quote:
Plenty more where those came from.
Quote:
|
28th April 2017, 01:51 PM | #122 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,011
|
I think this is a fine distinction overall. While the phrase itself might not be racist, you can definitely infer the purpose of the one saying it based on other factors. During the Irish wave of immigration, I am not sure you would describe the negative sentiment as racism against their overarching racial group. They were directed at a specific group from a specific place. The reference to 'Mexicans' in the current times might not be as large a distinction.
|
28th April 2017, 02:32 PM | #123 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
|
Fascinating how you put up the most extreme left "studies" from the most extreme left rags while trying to prove your point. And your point, words don't mean what they really mean.
We even went through this with the birther issue, there also was no proof of this racism and here you're doing it again. |
28th April 2017, 02:48 PM | #124 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,929
|
Sure, there's no proof of anything if you dismiss every study out of hand. It's amazing how right you always are if you never read anything, refuse to learn, and just say "lol leftist lol" over and over.
The Washington Post is not extreme left. Here is their three part piece on the racism of Trump voters. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.4a7512bcb264 |
28th April 2017, 02:50 PM | #125 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,929
|
It's obviously racist now, but that's true in virtue of the facts.
Logger seemed to think that an international charter promoting an end to discrimination in public policy necessitated "open borders." This is incoherent. Right now, the basis of our immigration hysteria is obviously racist. That's because it's a fake issue drummed up to win votes. It's possible that there have been and will, in the future, be situations where borders are limited or controlled for reasons that have nothing to do with racism. Declaring an end to racial discrimination in public policy does not compel a nation to open its borders. |
28th April 2017, 02:51 PM | #126 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9,626
|
|
28th April 2017, 05:49 PM | #127 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
|
|
28th April 2017, 05:58 PM | #128 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
|
Its incoherent because you can't understand unless someone spells it out for you. My point was an immigrant could conceivably get into a country by claiming racism? Maybe a stretch but since your side worships the UN democrats might let them decide our immigration law.
Quote:
Because I don't see the secure borders side talking about race. Besides your side would be the ones to benefit from votes from poor third world country people. They know your side is willing to steal from others to give them cradle to grave care.
Quote:
Did it ever occur to you that these working class poor compete directly with illegal aliens? Can they be for secure borders without gaining the racist tag from you? Does it always have to be such a decisive issue with the paid Libs on here? |
28th April 2017, 05:59 PM | #129 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
|
|
30th April 2017, 05:36 PM | #130 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,929
|
The charter wasn't binding law. It was a declaration of human rights from which a general usage was used. A resolution. Again, rejecting bias in public policy does not obligate one to open borders.
This is such a strange leap of reasoning.
Quote:
Quote:
1) Pretending that calling people "Mexicans" and spitting bigoted venom at someone for their nation of origin allows escape of the term "racist." This is ether not true or unimportant, depending on the definition of racism being used. 2) Thinking obvious dog-whistling fools anyone. 3) Thinking you can, mid-stream, change your religious ban into "extreme vetting" and thinking that fools anyone, and 4) Just denying the obvious. Again, not fooling anyone.
Quote:
Quote:
We've gone over this a thousands times. The economic studies show that the presence of immigrants have a mild downward impact on the income of people who haven't graduated from high school. Everyone else experiences an increase in salary due to the economic activity generated. That mild downward effect could be recovered in a number of ways. It's not a big number. There is no serious issue, just ignorant fear mongering. |
30th April 2017, 07:11 PM | #131 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
|
Sure but your socialist buddies are capable of anything.
Quote:
Quote:
No people are angry their country is being overrun by criminals, nothing more than that.
Quote:
Quote:
|
30th April 2017, 07:27 PM | #132 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,680
|
|
__________________
The Australian Family Association's John Morrissey was aghast when he learned Jessica Watson was bidding to become the youngest person to sail round the world alone, unaided and without stopping. |
|
30th April 2017, 07:36 PM | #133 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,929
|
No one is angry about illegal immigration. It affects almost no one negatively. The entire outlay of expense spent on undocumented people vs. what they pay into the system is about $190 million, a pittance compared to our budget that doesn't even factor in economic activity generated.
They're not angry about immigration because there's nothing to be angry about - unless you don't like brown people coming into the country.
Quote:
See, there's the racism: your willingness to believe, contrary to facts, that these brown people are ruining the place.
Quote:
Quote:
Once again, when people say it has nothing to do with race and then spout a bunch of poorly hidden racist notions, no one is fooled. Try and factually establish a problem with immigration in this country. |
30th April 2017, 08:10 PM | #134 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
|
Aside from the fact that we have to compete against illegal labor, citizens of this country don't like people breaking our laws, simple as that. Has nothing to do with your fantasy land opinion about brown people.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
1st May 2017, 04:50 AM | #135 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
|
|
1st May 2017, 05:50 AM | #136 |
Muse
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bonnie Scotland
Posts: 989
|
Logger.
Quote:
|
__________________
I was not; I have been; I am not; I am content - Epicurus When you're dead you don't know that you're dead, all the pain is felt by others....................the same thing happens when you're stupid. |
|
1st May 2017, 05:56 AM | #137 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 22,789
|
|
1st May 2017, 06:04 AM | #138 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 53,184
|
|
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
|
1st May 2017, 06:06 AM | #139 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,092
|
|
1st May 2017, 06:07 AM | #140 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 53,184
|
|
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
|
1st May 2017, 06:13 AM | #141 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 22,789
|
|
1st May 2017, 06:38 AM | #142 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,929
|
This is not a reason, this is more untethered bias.
I do love that you've totally failed to establish anything resembling a problem, so you fall back on "it's the law." Right, that's the point at issue - is that law good and meaningful?
Quote:
And, then, of course, net crossing of the Mexican border has been close to zero for a few years now. Establish the problem. You can't do it, it's incredible.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The data shows the connection between Trump support and racial resentment. You, yourself, time and time again have displayed the more mild instantiations of that resentment. You have failed time and time again to establish your case with anything but silly assertions, and when pressed, you start babbling about "crime," which has been a classic rhetorical position of racists throughout the history of this country. If you want to convince us that you and Trump voters are not merely expressing racial resentment when whining about immigration, you are doing a very poor job of it.
Quote:
When ICE goes around grabbing people, how are they making their decisions about who to stop? They tend to be drawn to certain physical characteristics.
Quote:
When the only way you can defend your fetishization of the immigration issue is by rambling about crime, it's completely clear what you're doing: whether consciously or not, you have plugged yourself into the propaganda coming from very racist outlets using the issue of crime to dog-whistle.
Quote:
Challenge: Factually establish damage done by undocumented immigrants in the United States. Response: It's obvious, they're undocumented. What's the problem with being an undocumented person in the United States? As a hypothetical, try and explain what would be the damage done if we completely opened the borders to all comers. Since I know this will confuse you, I am not for open borders. I have arguments and explanation for this position. I'm curious if you can provide the same for yours. |
1st May 2017, 06:42 AM | #143 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,929
|
This is one of those cases where there is no point in talking to you until you explain what burden of proof you will accept. I'm happy to provide you a wealth of evidence linking birtherism to racism, including the very reasoning behind the position as well as survey data about the individuals who were inclined to doubt the citizenship of the first black president, but I won't waste my time if it's going to be one of these conversations where you refuse to accept anything that isn't a mathematical or logical proof.
The link between birtherism and racism is one of empiricism, not logic, and if you demand the latter standard, there's no point in moving forward. |
1st May 2017, 06:44 AM | #144 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,092
|
|
1st May 2017, 06:45 AM | #145 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 58,581
|
|
1st May 2017, 06:47 AM | #146 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 58,581
|
|
1st May 2017, 06:51 AM | #147 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 58,581
|
|
1st May 2017, 06:56 AM | #148 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 58,581
|
Unfortunately many people consider it a race and will freely tell you how to identify Jews. Oddly, the methods they describe seem to also apply to a large number of people inhabiting the middle east now or ancestrally yet have no functional relation to Judaism.......
Life is so interesting!!! |
1st May 2017, 06:56 AM | #149 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 22,789
|
Correct, I demand the latter. My first guess is it would take some sort of recorded statement by a major birther advocate that their primary reason to suspect Obama wasn't born in the US was because of his race.
Unless the empirical studies linking racism and birthirism addressed the correlation vs causation issue. Then we are on to something. |
1st May 2017, 06:58 AM | #150 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 22,789
|
|
1st May 2017, 07:17 AM | #151 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,726
|
As well as his continued insistence in their guilt, despite:
A complete lack of evidence linking the five then-teens to the crime, A confession from a serial rapist, and DNA evidence matching the confessed rapist to the crime. And then there was his reluctance to reject David Duke and the KKK, his retweeting of false crime statistics stating that the majority of white murder victims were attacked by black people, his hiring of plain bigots like Carl Palatino and Steve Bannon, his repeated use of racial stereotypes over the decades before he ran for president, his absurd depiction of every black neighborhood as some sort of Mad Max hellscape, his use of "Law and Order" rhetoric, his bringing in segregationist Jeff Sessions as Attorney General... Really, the guys a plain as day white supremacist - the most obvious in presidential politics since George Wallace. |
1st May 2017, 07:21 AM | #152 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 22,789
|
|
1st May 2017, 07:30 AM | #153 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,092
|
|
1st May 2017, 07:39 AM | #154 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 22,789
|
|
1st May 2017, 07:55 AM | #155 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,092
|
|
1st May 2017, 08:21 AM | #156 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,929
|
|
1st May 2017, 08:24 AM | #157 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,726
|
|
1st May 2017, 08:33 AM | #158 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
|
Not to people experiencing it, [SNIP].
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A typical dodge, go ahead, I've performed so poorly, it ought to be easy for you to put up my racist hidden notions. [SNIP]
Quote:
This is a sad, circular argument: Challenge: Factually establish damage done by undocumented immigrants in the United States. Response: It's obvious, they're undocumented. What's the problem with being an undocumented person in the United States? As a hypothetical, try and explain what would be the damage done if we completely opened the borders to all comers.
Quote:
|
||
1st May 2017, 08:35 AM | #159 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
|
|
1st May 2017, 08:36 AM | #160 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 22,789
|
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|