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15th May 2018, 11:57 AM | #1 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Wearing a MAGA Hat While Black
Sounds like the anti-Trump folks include quite a few racists:
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Yeah, if you ever want to see the 'ever-so-tolerant' Left reveal their true racist nature, just check out how they react to black Republicans. Even the white ones think it is quite all right to refer to them as "house *******," as race traitors, etc. |
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15th May 2018, 11:59 AM | #2 |
Orthogonal Vector
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Or LGBT republicans, at least they know that LGBT really do not deserve right and vote against them. Their own status does not prevent them from taking a stand against their own rights.
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15th May 2018, 12:09 PM | #3 |
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15th May 2018, 12:13 PM | #4 |
Orthogonal Vector
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In this case it is being viewed as voting against your own interests and against the promotion of your own rights. Like how gay republicans are now all whinny that no one else wants to have sex with them for voting for trump, merely with how he supports Mike Pence and his history of promoting HIV and war on the LGBT community.
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15th May 2018, 12:36 PM | #5 |
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Well obviously he's an Uncle Tom
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15th May 2018, 12:37 PM | #6 |
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15th May 2018, 01:39 PM | #7 |
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Progressives you can't wear the "Figure out what term to call liberal white guilt this week in another attempt to bring it back" and the "We know when minorities are being disadvantaged better than they do white man's burden" hats at the same time.
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15th May 2018, 01:44 PM | #8 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Is the point of this thread "progressives are racists too"?
If so, yes. There are plenty of racist progressives, exhibiting various degrees of racism. I know that I carry certain biases. The difference - of course - is that progressives normally vote for political parties actively working against racism, while conservatives vote for parties that actively work to promote racism. |
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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15th May 2018, 01:57 PM | #9 |
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15th May 2018, 01:59 PM | #10 |
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15th May 2018, 02:00 PM | #11 |
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"Racist" is too much of a dogwhistle term, a hand grenade to launch into a discussions.
If we accept that we disagree about the exact mentality and practical application of race without it turning into a who's more racist than who game, than yes I disagree with how some progressives feel about race in some context. |
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15th May 2018, 02:19 PM | #12 |
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First, what race are these guys calling him "the N-word"? Much like women who call each other "bitch" or "heifer", or friendly gay guys who call each other "fag", this absolutely does make a difference. I use the first term, but none of the other three (and I also steer far away from phrases like "redneck" or "white trash"). For that matter, I never used "the N-word" around my grandfather - who was born in 1900 and raised in North Carolina. It's called context. I don't care if it's younger black people - and younger Hispanic folks sometimes get a pass as well, really.
Second - yes, that isn't how to treat a customer, regardless. The threats and intimidation is wrong, regardless of the fact that he supports a white supremacist president. Are some progressives/liberals racist? I've got stories on that one. Does that mean I consider any MAGAt to be a friend? Nope. DOn't consider any David Duke, Jared Taylor, or Richard Spencer fan to be a friend, either. It's not being republican, it's supporting white supremacism that I find untrustworthy on a basic, self-protection level. |
15th May 2018, 02:34 PM | #13 | ||
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Looks up thread: apparently someone here thinks so!
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But hey if other black people are calling him a
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15th May 2018, 02:59 PM | #14 |
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15th May 2018, 05:26 PM | #15 | |||
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Racism has its biggest home by far in the GOP; but there are still any number of left-leaning racists, just as there are any number of left-leaning misogynists (remember the "Bernie Bros" debacle).
That said, I'm a little frustrated at this article; it cites several videos of the incident taken by witnesses, but unusually, it doesn't link to a single one and I'm having trouble locating any on my own. This news report:
...features a video clip but it appears to have been taken after the incident and doesn't show any of the happenings or perpetrators. It also features a soundbyte from a conservative radio host complaining about what she describes as most African-Americans' hostile attitudes toward Trump-supporting black people, which makes me wonder whether the incident really does depict any white people hurling any racial epithets at the person (or about the person) as the OP seems to contend. The news report also quotes the official police report which paints the incident in a decidedly more tepid light than the Daily Wire article does, making me wish I had access to those video clips even more. |
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15th May 2018, 05:41 PM | #16 |
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16th May 2018, 07:15 AM | #17 |
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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16th May 2018, 07:17 AM | #18 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Double post.
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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16th May 2018, 07:24 AM | #19 |
Orthogonal Vector
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Race is to much of a dogwhistle loaded term to ever bring up either, because if you imply someones policies/actions explicitly disadvantage a race you are going to blow up the discussion.
We are a post racial society in that it is now officially impossible to talk about. |
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16th May 2018, 08:14 AM | #20 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I wouldn't consider anyone a "race traitor," primarily as I consider "race" to largely be a made up term (without much scientific rigor or merit) seemingly invented to stand in for culturally different and other than my "tribe." I consider darker-skinned idiots voting for Trump to be little different than the lighter-skinned idiots who voted for Trump. Idiots are idiots regardless of the skin tone that shades their waste of human potential.
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16th May 2018, 09:12 AM | #21 |
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I don't necessarily - like I said, I consider the threats and intimidation to be worse. And I'd never eat anywhere where the staff acted that way, since they may try to "contaminate" the food in some disgusting (and illegal!) way. It's best to leave before that happens, and be relieved that they expressed themselves so openly rather than to potentially poison you. And that's just looking at self preservation - it's not right that they went either route, but this is as good as you can expect from anyone that willing to be openly hostile.
As for terms like "race traitor", "Uncle Tom", etc ...I don't use them, but many other communities have terms for people who are seen as openly and intentionally working against the common interests of other people who live there, regardless of how or why that community was created, so I'm unbothered when other black Americans use them in cases like this. I consider these along the same lines as "Benedict Arnold" for people who US citizens who betray the US, or "Gamergater" for gamers that harass women online. And a black guy who considers himself part of a US black community, but votes for Dolt 45 (as opposed to most other republicans) is about as close as you get to that. I don't really recognize a singular "the black community" however, so I'm very reluctant to consider anyone to have betrayed all black people. And "House slave/negro/etc" will get a word from me on how badly actual slaves were treated who worked in the house. |
16th May 2018, 09:17 AM | #22 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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16th May 2018, 09:37 AM | #23 |
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I think the word people are looking for is 'intersectionality'. Every individual belongs to more than one group, and sometimes this results in conflict.
One thing that always depresses me is gay racists. It just seems like of all people they should know better, but that's humanity for you. We won't get along until we meet aliens, then we'll band together to be nasty to them. |
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16th May 2018, 09:46 AM | #24 |
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This is what I've hit on the past with the Democrats failing to understand that "Democratic Policies are Better for Group X" doesn't always automatically win them everybody in Group X.
There gay, black, disabled, veteran, transgender, etc people for whom being gay, black, disabled, a veteran, transgendered, etc is not the most important part of their life and it seems at times Progressives and Liberals and the Democrats just keep screaming "But we're making life better for (this or that demographic)!" and don't get it. And.... okay bad, bad elephant in the room here but... so be it, there's also the tendency to treat "minority" as a single distinct demographic when... it's not. It would be a wonderful world if one disadvantaged group's understanding of how they are disadvantaged would always transfer over to empathy for other groups but... yeah. Female racists, black homophobes.. these aren't hard to find. |
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16th May 2018, 10:13 AM | #25 |
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16th May 2018, 10:50 AM | #26 |
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Anyone remember when **** like this was the sole domain of ******** with hoods?
There are two types of liberals. Those like myself that see 1950s America as a disgusting example of one group having power over another. And those that think the only problem was that it wasn't liberals wielding that power. Sadly the second option seems more and more common. |
16th May 2018, 11:20 AM | #27 |
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Indeed. As a matter of fact, the black community, as a whole tends to be relatively church-going and culturally conservative. So, for example, there is less support for gay marriage in the black community than in the white community. That should cause cognitive dissonance in some quarters. [/OFFTOPIC]
Back to the main topic, even though I shouldn't be surprised at how much less attention this story is getting than the other "such-and-such while black" stories, it is still pretty astonishing. |
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16th May 2018, 11:38 AM | #28 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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16th May 2018, 11:41 AM | #29 |
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It is astonishing because this is the one story with an absolutely clear case of in-your-face bigotry, except it isn't against black people it's against conservatives. So I guess it isn't that astonishing actually.
I mean there was no denial from the perpetrators, they were very clear as to why they were upset. There is no translation needed. Finally, a story containing obvious bigotry! |
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Why bother? |
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16th May 2018, 11:55 AM | #30 |
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16th May 2018, 11:56 AM | #31 |
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Ew, god, shouldn't this be in Politics?
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16th May 2018, 11:58 AM | #32 |
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16th May 2018, 12:43 PM | #33 |
Orthogonal Vector
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Is the very concept of traitor meaningful ever? People are acting in accordance with their ideology, be that not caring about their individual rights compared to tax cuts with say log cabin republicans, or choosing to send information to other nations for ideological reasons.
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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16th May 2018, 12:47 PM | #34 |
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16th May 2018, 12:58 PM | #35 |
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The key difference, of course, is that the KKK are a white supremacist terrorist group. When David Duke calls someone a "race traitor", all he means is that at some point they failed to oppress a person who isn't white in some fashion. When this guy is called a "race traitor" by other black people, they mean that he supports David Duke's mission to oppress nonwhite people, despite himself being nonwhite.
Among other issues - Duke will call someone a "race traitor" because one does not wish for police to beat or kill black people without cause. This guy is being called a "race traitor" because he effectively supports police who beat or kill black people without cause. Context is important! |
16th May 2018, 01:02 PM | #36 |
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16th May 2018, 01:04 PM | #37 |
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What's sad is that there are some many good, valid reasons to hate Trump supporters that they shouldn't need to stoop to race. A traitor to his country is a traitor regardless of race. Focus on the treason, not the skin color I say.
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16th May 2018, 01:28 PM | #38 |
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16th May 2018, 01:45 PM | #39 |
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16th May 2018, 01:56 PM | #40 |
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