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Tags new york times , racism charges , Sarah Jeong , Twitter incidents

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Old 3rd August 2018, 11:41 AM   #41
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
You know what really makes the NYT's defense of Jeong sweet? Not her racist tweets, which are basically cliched for the far left at this point, but her **** posting about her current co-workers.
https://twitter.com/redsteeze/status...54199574433798
It's almost like the NYT and Jeong deserve each other.
Heh. It's almost like the real reason they hired her was to fill the "controversial douchebag" quota.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 11:42 AM   #42
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well they are boring as hell
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Old 3rd August 2018, 01:02 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
You know what really makes the NYT's defense of Jeong sweet? Not her racist tweets, which are basically cliched for the far left at this point, but her **** posting about her current co-workers.
https://twitter.com/redsteeze/status...54199574433798
It's almost like the NYT and Jeong deserve each other.
Well, if she hates Krugman, she can't be all bad.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 02:27 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's how tribalism works. Members of "my tribe" have to be judged by the entire movie, the deleted scenes, and the behind the scenes featurette. Members of the "other tribe" are allowed to be judged based on only their blooper reel.

This woman's racists tweets obviously don't count because there's a story behind them. Anyone else racist tweets aren't given the same leeway.
Can you tell me which "tribe" she is meant to be?
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Old 3rd August 2018, 03:10 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
Is this actually true though or just a get out of jail free card? Did she post those back at racists?
There's no evidence of that, just a lame excuse for pathetic behavior.

Some are trying to make her see the light with their own idiotic messages, most posts on her public Facebook page (including photos) are polluted with disgusting comments:

https://www.facebook.com/sarahSMHjeong
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Old 3rd August 2018, 05:37 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
In other words;

It's okay when real racists do it because ... free speech.

It's not okay to mock racists by doing it right back at them because ... reasons.
A couple of additional points:

202-2013 was before Twitter users had any real means of ignoring groups that decided to dogpile anyone - blocklists and the like only became popular due to Gamergate and other 4chan harassment campaigns.

It's also true that, back then, it was particularly tough to get any sort of nuance into replies, with all of 140 characters to work with.

But even worse, many places want to see this sort of edgy, "funny" reply that set off people that were clearly just trolling - unless they went to an Ivy League university, this is basically how many people started their writing careers, so you'd pretty much lock out everyone outside of a very narrow group going forward.

Now, if places want to toss out anyone who, at any time, wrote something on Twitter that could be misconstrued as "hateful", especially when pushed by people who deliberately take things out of context, they're free to ruin themselves. Personally, I think Verge has the proper response to these efforts - "We know what this is, we're not interested in these games".

And anyone who wants to discuss what I said about Roseanne Barr can feel free to search the forum for it.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 07:13 PM   #47
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She is an unappologetic racist. The "I was only doing it cause others were doing it to me" excuse wouldnt fly if she was a white male right winger, so her bigottedness should not be handwaved away with excuses you would expect from a 5 to 14 year old child.

Last edited by Hungry81; 3rd August 2018 at 07:15 PM.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 08:47 PM   #48
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she is a boring, insipid racist too ******* dumb to delete her hate tweets
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Old 4th August 2018, 02:34 AM   #49
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Reading other tweets she has made she comes across as an extremely unpleasant person and she seems to be mix her "personal" with her "professional" which I never like.
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Old 4th August 2018, 02:47 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
A couple of additional points:

202-2013 was before Twitter users had any real means of ignoring groups that decided to dogpile anyone - blocklists and the like only became popular due to Gamergate and other 4chan harassment campaigns.

It's also true that, back then, it was particularly tough to get any sort of nuance into replies, with all of 140 characters to work with.

But even worse, many places want to see this sort of edgy, "funny" reply that set off people that were clearly just trolling - unless they went to an Ivy League university, this is basically how many people started their writing careers, so you'd pretty much lock out everyone outside of a very narrow group going forward.

Now, if places want to toss out anyone who, at any time, wrote something on Twitter that could be misconstrued as "hateful", especially when pushed by people who deliberately take things out of context, they're free to ruin themselves. Personally, I think Verge has the proper response to these efforts - "We know what this is, we're not interested in these games".

And anyone who wants to discuss what I said about Roseanne Barr can feel free to search the forum for it.
I'm largely in agreement with The Verge's opinion, myself. With that said, while she's hired, she is also representing the New York Times, and thus, needs to be held accountable for that which she says there. It's apparently been made clear to her that that kind of behavior is unacceptable while employed, regardless. If she does restart such behavior, even somewhat sarcastically, I would expect there to be consequences.

But then, hey, I also don't consider racism to be THE WORST THING EVER. It's a mark against a person, but there are frequently more important qualities to look at during any particular evaluation.
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Old 4th August 2018, 05:48 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Reading other tweets she has made she comes across as an extremely unpleasant person
That's why I want her to stay at the NYT. She's a toxic person, and she'll make them miserable.
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Old 4th August 2018, 07:00 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That's why I want her to stay at the NYT. She's a toxic person, and she'll make them miserable.
I could understand them employing her as a - in today's vernacular - generator of clickbait columns, newspapers have always known the drawing power of having "controversial" columnists, but it seems strange to me that you would want this person in an editorial position.
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Old 4th August 2018, 07:01 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
In other words;

It's okay when real racists do it because ... free speech.

It's not okay to mock racists by doing it right back at them because ... reasons.
The issue I have with it is not that they are hiring this person, but that so many companies have fired so many others.


She was being a "mock racist". So was Dr. Laura. So was Don Imus. So was the Papa John's guy. So was that comedian who played on Seinfeld. So was that PR representative flying over Africa.

There's no reason to believe that any of those people were racists.

Jimmy the Greek wasn't even racist, although he did say some things about race that most people wouldn't agree with.


If you touch the wrong nerves, it doesn't matter what you actually meant. You're gone. On the other hand, as long as you are insulting white people, context matters.
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Old 4th August 2018, 07:09 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Who are these good authorities, what makes them good authorities?
The people at the New York Times who not only hired a sexist racist, but are now standing behind that decision.
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Old 4th August 2018, 07:13 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
The people at the New York Times who not only hired a sexist racist, but are now standing behind that decision.
That doesn't actually follow....
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Old 4th August 2018, 10:40 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
That doesn't actually follow....

The New York Times fired a white editor in February for racial bigotry.

The New York Times has now decided not to fire an editor for racial bigotry.

Who the bigotry was targeted at is the difference.

Or another way to put it –

White person displays bigotry = GTFO
POC displays bigotry = nuance and context need to be considered
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Old 4th August 2018, 10:41 AM   #57
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Jeet Heer shows why you shouldn't just assume good faith with these 4chan goons. So columnist Andrew Sullivan was apparently hurt by the awful awful racism of Sarah Jeong - and helpfully quotes some of her awful racist quotes.

One problem - the racist quote she took from her, from 2013, was a parody of "we must listen to both sides" takes on scientific racism. And the specific person she was mocking? Why none other than noted defender of The Bell Curve...Andrew Sullivan. Yeah, he's angry about a parody of himself.

Maybe he should have looked into that before firing off his column.
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Old 4th August 2018, 11:49 AM   #58
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The bigger issue that no one seems to care about is that she helped those disgraces to journalism over at Vice SWAT Chinese maker Naomi Wu.
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Old 4th August 2018, 12:26 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Damien Evans View Post
The bigger issue that no one seems to care about is that she helped those disgraces to journalism over at Vice SWAT Chinese maker Naomi Wu.
I could find no evidence that motherboard vice called local police and had a SWAT team sent to Naomi's residence.
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Old 4th August 2018, 12:34 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Jeet Heer shows why you shouldn't just assume good faith with these 4chan goons. So columnist Andrew Sullivan was apparently hurt by the awful awful racism of Sarah Jeong - and helpfully quotes some of her awful racist quotes.

One problem - the racist quote she took from her, from 2013, was a parody of "we must listen to both sides" takes on scientific racism. And the specific person she was mocking? Why none other than noted defender of The Bell Curve...Andrew Sullivan. Yeah, he's angry about a parody of himself.

Maybe he should have looked into that before firing off his column.
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Old 4th August 2018, 03:51 PM   #61
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I was thrilled when NYT stood by her and refused to fire her.

This kind of thing wakes up white sleepers like nothing else.

The double standards, the endorsement of anti-white sentiment, etc.

What sort of credibility can these media outlets really expect to have when they call out "racism" on the part of whites and then do something like this?

Best possible outcome from my perspective.
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Old 4th August 2018, 09:11 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Jeet Heer shows why you shouldn't just assume good faith with these 4chan goons. So columnist Andrew Sullivan was apparently hurt by the awful awful racism of Sarah Jeong - and helpfully quotes some of her awful racist quotes.

One problem - the racist quote she took from her, from 2013, was a parody of "we must listen to both sides" takes on scientific racism. And the specific person she was mocking? Why none other than noted defender of The Bell Curve...Andrew Sullivan. Yeah, he's angry about a parody of himself.

Maybe he should have looked into that before firing off his column.
Yeah, Salon did a good write-up of this. https://www.salon.com/2018/08/04/and...were-innocent/

The NYT doesn't need lawyers when they have attackers who make their case for them. The timeline is so obvious that the complainers are being reduced to "Yeah, but...." arguments. Yeah, but it doesn't matter; she shouldn't say racist-sounding things even if she's just parodying stuff that actual racists said.
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Old 4th August 2018, 11:04 PM   #63
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Here's a selection of other archives I came across. There is some duplication due to the links but if you click on some of them you will see that not all the tweets are deleted and can peruse the other comments.


edit: probably NSFW in some way
http://archive.fo/igOck
http://archive.fo/XUFku
https://archive.fo/B4kG3
http://archive.fo/ooD0I
http://archive.fo/MEORV
http://archive.fo/Q6qvX
http://archive.fo/9Wdcu
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Old 4th August 2018, 11:18 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by pharphis View Post
Here's a selection of other archives I came across. There is some duplication due to the links but if you click on some of them you will see that not all the tweets are deleted and can peruse the other comments.


edit: probably NSFW in some way
http://archive.fo/igOck
http://archive.fo/XUFku
https://archive.fo/B4kG3
http://archive.fo/ooD0I
http://archive.fo/MEORV
http://archive.fo/Q6qvX
http://archive.fo/9Wdcu
I'm becoming a fan. Some of her stuff is very funny. I like when she says she's going to take away all men's games and replace them with kale.

For the humor challenged*, it's sarcasm and it's funny.


*You know, like when Donald Trump makes fun of a handicapped reporter? Now that's humor! Ha ha. It was a joke. You people don't understand his 4D chess sense of humor.
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Old 4th August 2018, 11:26 PM   #65
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Here's a timeline someone made of her tweets that mention "white"

https://twitter.com/nickmon1112/stat...37806775226368


and I'm not denying that the gamer thing was a joke. I think that's pretty obvious
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Old 4th August 2018, 11:46 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Yeah, Salon did a good write-up of this. https://www.salon.com/2018/08/04/and...were-innocent/

The NYT doesn't need lawyers when they have attackers who make their case for them. The timeline is so obvious that the complainers are being reduced to "Yeah, but...." arguments. Yeah, but it doesn't matter; she shouldn't say racist-sounding things even if she's just parodying stuff that actual racists said.
But right wing commentators did it first, so lets sink to their level. That way we can eventually sink down into the muck enough to get a left wing version of trump and beat them at their own game next elections.

Just because the hypocrites on the right are having their day in the sun, it does not mean we should be endorsing the equivillent witless hypocrites on the left. Call the hypocrites out directly and stop the revenge bigotted generalisations. Ammo for the extreme right wing is still ammo even if it is "blank rounds" that just make alot of noise.
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Old 5th August 2018, 12:20 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
Ammo for the extreme right wing is still ammo even if it is "blank rounds" that just make alot of noise.
And they'll have "ammo" even if the rounds are created out of nothing. Obama's such a Muslim, after all. The Parkland students and Sandy Hook parents were crisis actors, after all.

I'm to the point where I just don't endorse shrinking away in fear from, say, being a reasonable person. Seriously, why should we be intimidated by the right wing's unreasonability, lies, and penchant for vile threats? Standing up for what's actually right is what we should actually be doing, not kowtowing to the aching butts of those who are too busy trying to engage in tu quoque and the like. Racism (definitely including against whites) is a real problem... where it's actually happening. Indulging their attempts to drag others down with quarter truths and lies that play to things that they've been shown to be just validates their opinion that those who think they are, say, racist can be easily manipulated and dismissed.
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Old 5th August 2018, 12:34 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
But right wing commentators did it first, so lets sink to their level. That way we can eventually sink down into the muck enough to get a left wing version of trump and beat them at their own game next elections.

Just because the hypocrites on the right are having their day in the sun, it does not mean we should be endorsing the equivillent witless hypocrites on the left. Call the hypocrites out directly and stop the revenge bigotted generalisations. Ammo for the extreme right wing is still ammo even if it is "blank rounds" that just make alot of noise.
She was mocking them. If you can't see that, then you are choosing not to. That is not a tu quoque defense.

You can respond to idiots by making a six page footnoted counter-argument.
Pulling you hair from your head and throwing up your hands in disgust.
Scream at them and call them names. (see Trump, Donald J.)
Ignore them and hope they'll go away.
Mock and ridicule them.

She chose the latter. It's a form of response, IMHO, far better than three others (2, 3, 4) and more effective in many circles than the scholarly discourse route.
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Old 5th August 2018, 01:18 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I'm becoming a fan. Some of her stuff is very funny. I like when she says she's going to take away all men's games and replace them with kale.

For the humor challenged*, it's sarcasm and it's funny.
It's sarcasm, but it isn't funny. Not because it's offensive but because it's lazy and unimaginative.
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Old 5th August 2018, 01:27 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It's sarcasm, but it isn't funny. Not because it's offensive but because it's lazy and unimaginative.
Ehh, turnabout is fair play. If it validly highlights how stupid the things that it's responding to are, it works. Mockery doesn't actually need to actually be funny to accomplish its purpose.
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Old 5th August 2018, 01:32 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It's sarcasm, but it isn't funny. Not because it's offensive but because it's lazy and unimaginative.
This is why they give us chocolate and vanilla. Or, more accurately, P.G. Wodehouse and Benny Hill. Tastes in humor vary.

I believe they say "that's why they give us chocolate and vanilla". More appropriate to this topic, perhaps, "That's why they give us Benny Hill and Mark Twain".

ETA: It's not really sarcasm. I misspoke. It's parody (or satire if you want to elevate it).
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It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

Last edited by Foolmewunz; 5th August 2018 at 01:34 AM.
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Old 5th August 2018, 02:41 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I'm becoming a fan. Some of her stuff is very funny. I like when she says she's going to take away all men's games and replace them with kale.

For the humor challenged*, it's sarcasm and it's funny.


*You know, like when Donald Trump makes fun of a handicapped reporter? Now that's humor! Ha ha. It was a joke. You people don't understand his 4D chess sense of humor.
Would it be still funny if targets were black or Asians?
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Old 5th August 2018, 02:52 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Would it be still funny if targets were black or Asians?
If the blacks or Asians got similarly parodied with absurdity for racist things that they said, why wouldn't it be funny to those who like that kind of humor?
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Old 5th August 2018, 03:38 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
*You know, like when Donald Trump makes fun of a handicapped reporter? Now that's humor! Ha ha. It was a joke. You people don't understand his 4D chess sense of humor.
https://youtu.be/CsaB3ynIZH4
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Old 5th August 2018, 04:09 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by paulhutch View Post
I could find no evidence that motherboard vice called local police and had a SWAT team sent to Naomi's residence.
The allegations they made could easily have lead to her being disappeared by the Chinese authorities as an embarrassment, and were doubly wrong by making them after explicitly agreeing not to.
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Old 5th August 2018, 05:52 AM   #76
Foolmewunz
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Would it be still funny if targets were black or Asians?
Well, that would depend on the blacks or Asians. Plenty of idiots to go around in this world. And it would depend on what aspect she was making fun of. We don't have to speculate in the current iteration because by backtracking, they've shown who and what she was mimicking.

The I'm Rubber You're Glue tactic is very hard to pull off. Gays got some mileage out of "breeders" for a while, but it just didn't upset the hetero world as clever as we cool-hip urban denizens thought it was. Trashing white people in general seems to work.

Lookit, I'm not subscribing to her newsletter or starting a fan club, but I am saying that I agree with what the conservatives think is just an excuse. It's a viable way to treat trolls. Throw their **** right back in their own faces. The conservasphere reaction is manufactured, manufactured by the same people who manufactured the outrage over YECs being banned from teaching, over the War Against Christmas, and the liberal bullying that shuts down free speech.
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Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old 5th August 2018, 09:22 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Damien Evans View Post
The allegations they made could easily have lead to her being disappeared by the Chinese authorities as an embarrassment, and were doubly wrong by making them after explicitly agreeing not to.
Ah OK, so nothing at all like swatting a person, thanks for the info.
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Old 5th August 2018, 09:39 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
They're called "anons" Mumbles, "goons" are from Something Awful. /ackchyually
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Old 6th August 2018, 01:02 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
She was mocking them. If you can't see that, then you are choosing not to.
She was mocking them... for five years?


Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
We don't have to speculate in the current iteration because by backtracking, they've shown who and what she was mimicking.
Did you read the link in post 65? 'Cause by your responses here, it really doesn't seem like it.
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Old 6th August 2018, 01:07 AM   #80
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What if... instead of saying ''they' are getting 'our guys' fired by dredging up some out of context tweets, so now we're going to get random strangers fired by taking their tweets out of context, because we believe those people are part of 'them'', everybody just cuts it out with the faux outrage and trying to divide the world into 'us' and 'the enemy'?

It's the strategy that is wrong, not the choice of victim.
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