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6th August 2018, 01:32 AM | #81 |
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I've been mocking logger and various other reactionaries for much longer than that. And I've been using much the same tactics that they use, only I'm better at it than they are. If I had a dollar for every time some pearl-clutching conservative snowflake accused me of being a racist, I'd have enough to pay my yearly ISF Dues.
So, yeah. If you choose to disrespect her for her attitudes, go right ahead. I don't have a problem with you exercising your options. I also don't have a problem with her choosing to address issues with barbed snark. (I do have a problem with Twitter as a medium, but t'ain't nothing I can do about that - that ship has sailed.) |
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Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. |
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6th August 2018, 06:14 AM | #82 |
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There's nothing respectable about sinking to the level of racist twitter trolls to make some point. I'm not even clear what point she is trying to make by mimicking racist screeds, and that's assuming I even buy that explanation. The trolls obviously don't care what she thinks and operate in bad-faith 100% of the time, so who exactly are these messages for?
Being a racist twitter troll does nothing but lower the discourse. The expression "Don't wrestle a pig. You both get dirty and the pig enjoys it" comes to mind. Nothing is to be engaged by lowering our standards to that of the twitter racists. There's not enough liberal white guilt in the world for me to make common cause with someone who is explicitly hostile towards me because I am white and male. There's nothing to be gained, other than "woke points", by spreading anti-white racism. The world doesn't need any more race warriors, we've got too many already. The NYT is a prestigious journalistic organization. Surely they can do better than Jeong. |
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6th August 2018, 06:21 AM | #83 |
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Maybe she's good at her job?
Is racism a problem with her, or is it a select few tweets that she explains with being frustrated with racist attacks on Twitter? If racism or sexism is actually a problem with her - even if it is racism or sexism against the group with all the power in society - it's not a good idea to hire her. |
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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6th August 2018, 06:34 AM | #84 |
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Their prestige is undeserved. And has been for decades.
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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6th August 2018, 06:45 AM | #85 |
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I imagine not bringing embarrassment to herself and her employer are an important aspect of her job. Seems like a writer would be more cautious about what she commits to text in a publicly available venue, especially one who's supposed to have sound enough judgement to work in an editorial role. She failed in that respect. Being frustrated with Twitter trolls is understandable. Lashing out at them would also be understandable, though likely a fruitless endeavor. Being justifiably mad doesn't give her license to be a racist against all white people. She made public statements that disparage wide populations of people on explicitly racist terms. It's not even a grey area, she says that white people are inferior because of their skin color. #cancelwhitepeople is not ambiguous. I'm not blind, I know we live in extremely turbulent times. White resentment politics is powerful and plenty of white people are behaving in absolutely reprehensible ways, and not just in the political sphere. That doesn't make racism any more moral or pragmatic. Lashing out at all whites is intellectually lazy and unworthy of a NYT writer. |
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6th August 2018, 06:46 AM | #86 |
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the NYT is still being presented to me in recent documentaries on Dutch TV as some kind of gold standard for journalism.
Now they are hiring edgy racists to generate outrage clicks. If the death of this particular brand is any indication, mainstream news outlets will be reduced to clickbaity blogs within a couple of years. Considering that we need at least some trustworthy news channels to give us reasonably unbiased information, I see this as a very bad development for political discourse. |
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6th August 2018, 06:59 AM | #87 |
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Possibly the best analysis in this thread comes from our token Alt-Right member.
The blatant hypocrisy of hiring and keeping this openly racist edgelord who sent hundreds of racist tweets over several years is white-nationalist public-relations gold. Especially as it contrasts so sharply with the immediate cancellation of an entire successful show after one possibly racist Tweet by Rosanne. |
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Death to Videodrome! Long live the new flesh! |
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6th August 2018, 07:02 AM | #88 |
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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6th August 2018, 07:08 AM | #89 |
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6th August 2018, 09:04 AM | #90 |
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Is her middle name Cain?
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Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake. |
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6th August 2018, 09:22 AM | #91 |
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While I do think that some of her comments are ironic or edgy or whatever your preferred phrase is... it's indistinguishable from hundreds of others on twitter who make similar remark.
also maybe it's because I don't hang around or look at racists very often (except those that wind up in the public eye) but I pretty much never see the kinds of messages she claims to be satirizing. If you looked up "white" or "black" on twitter, what proportion of the messages would be hateful on either word? I'm too lazy to do this myself but I'd speculate that the anti-white tweets would be way more prevalent. |
6th August 2018, 09:30 AM | #92 |
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I have seen claims, but no evidence, that Jeong was primarily making fun of white supremacy.
Also, "I was lashing out with hate, but ironically" is just another variation of the classic bully's excuse of "c'mon! we were just playing around!" Pull the other one, New York Times. |
6th August 2018, 09:34 AM | #93 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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6th August 2018, 09:48 AM | #94 |
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Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake. |
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6th August 2018, 09:52 AM | #95 |
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6th August 2018, 10:02 AM | #96 |
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No, just trying to figure out how best to frame the language to make it acceptable, even if you find the actual words offensive.
You didn't like irony, so I went for a frame you've accepted in the past. Personally, mocking is enough of an excuse for me. Have you ever gotten mad at Cain when he is mocking posters here? Or applecorped when he mocks a post he finds worthy of such? I haven't, because it is obvious what they are doing. Even if I disagree, the form is apparent. I don't really think that Cain wants to kill poor people or that applecorped is concerned with Noah Fence's legacy. The form is clear whether the gag is funny or the message is pertinent. People who act confused by these things fall into one of two camps for me: 1) too focused on their own message to see the gag or 2) dishonest about seeing the gag but wanting to ignore the fact that it is a gag to drive their own narrative. |
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Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake. |
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6th August 2018, 10:07 AM | #97 |
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6th August 2018, 10:11 AM | #98 |
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Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake. |
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6th August 2018, 10:21 AM | #99 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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6th August 2018, 10:22 AM | #100 |
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Her excuse reeks of post-hoc justification. None of her jokes seem specifically targeted at trolls, neo-nazi's, or alt-right types in particular. They are just lazy race-baiting barbs at white people.
The internet is awash with mocking of the alt-right and white supremacy trolls. Nobody of any importance cares if you make fun of a neo-nazi. There were plenty of ways for Jeong to criticize these trolls without being a racist. Just because she is legitimately aggrieved (and being harassed by trolls certainly counts as that) doesn't mean that they get carte blanche to respond however she likes. |
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6th August 2018, 10:29 AM | #101 |
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At the New York Times, some tweets are more equal than others.
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6th August 2018, 10:30 AM | #102 |
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6th August 2018, 10:34 AM | #103 |
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Enh. Dr. Keith usually at least pretends to argue in good faith. I don't mind cutting him a little bit of slack here.
Also, I have a thing about people "fixing" my posts when quoting them. I don't expect you to keep track of every member's personal preferences, but if you do recall mine, I'd take it as a kindness if you refrained from doing it.
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6th August 2018, 10:48 AM | #104 |
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PFFFFWAHAHAHAHA!
The things y'all write sometimes...No, too late for this, we have an openly white supremacist president, that's by far more important than Sarah Jeong.
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But not for any alleged "hypocrisy", which it obviously isn't, since the NYT and the ABC tv network aren't, you know, the same thing. Rather, it's because Roseanne actually is a racist, and a conspiracy theorist, and that's part of why she was hired in the first place - they even noted her tweets in a presentation to advertisers. They knew they were giving a scorpion a ride across the river on their own backs, so the howls of shock when she stung them were ridiculous. I mean, who could have possibly known that a birther would turn out to be a racist? Jeong, meanwhile, is clearly just substituting white skin tones and stereotypes for the standard racist arguments we get all the time from bigoted white guys, thus showing their hypocrisy when they shriek and howl about it. And "for 5 years"? Yep. It can be fun and stress-relieving, actually, much like tweeting "What about white on white crime?" at people who use "black on black crime" to deflect from obvious racist murders. Once you get over the idea that these guys are acting in good faith to begin with, you'll stop bothering with trying to impress them with reasoning, and try something else instead. NYT has a lot of problems, from their constant "Will this break the poor white people at this small-town diner from Trump? stories, to Maggie Hagerman's (or whatever her name is) blatant spinning. If anything, they could use more people like Jeong. |
6th August 2018, 10:55 AM | #105 |
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Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake. |
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6th August 2018, 10:59 AM | #106 |
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Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake. |
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6th August 2018, 11:02 AM | #107 |
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Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake. |
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6th August 2018, 11:03 AM | #108 |
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How nice for you!
Turns out that, for many people, they have no need to do so in the first place. Instead, racists come looking for them, so they have no need to go on some amazing epic quest to ferret them out. And would you like to guess which people white supremacists, neo nazis, and so forth go looking to attack? Think you could do the same for misogynists? Homophobes? |
6th August 2018, 11:05 AM | #109 |
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It is all pretend. I'm actually a Trump supporter out to make the liberals look stupid. Rather be Russian Than Democrat!
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Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake. |
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6th August 2018, 11:08 AM | #110 |
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The exercise of searching for alternative phrasing on my behalf seems obviously disingenuous to me. Trying to find phrasing that is acceptable because it manufactures alternative contexts seems obviously dishonest.
What relevant, productive goal did you have in mind, with this search of yours? |
6th August 2018, 11:11 AM | #111 |
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Yep. One of the things that a lot of minorities don't understand about white people is that they don't consider themselves white; they think of themselves as just people. And while this is one of the effects of being the dominant race in an area, it does have some beneficial effects to minorities as well.
Think about Trayvon Martin for example. How many whites too his side against Zimmerman? Now think about blacks. How many took Zimmerman's side? It seems obvious to me that white are less reflexively likely to take the white guy's side than blacks are to take the black person's side. And I am not criticizing blacks for doing so, or saying that whites are somehow better because they are more impartial on this issue. I think blacks, having been exposed to more racism, view these types of incidents with a different lens. However, if anti-white racism continues to be openly expressed and even celebrated, whites may start to change their lenses as well, which was the point that ST made. And unlike him, I view this as a very bad thing. |
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My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog. |
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6th August 2018, 11:25 AM | #112 |
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6th August 2018, 11:30 AM | #113 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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6th August 2018, 11:32 AM | #114 |
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Of course he is. He's "white Hispanic". I have it on good authority.
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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6th August 2018, 11:35 AM | #115 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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6th August 2018, 12:35 PM | #116 |
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You seemed to be very focused on the words, and not the context. I was trying to get you to think about contexts where you would have seen bad words and dismissed them.
In some contexts people can say reprehensible things but people shrug and move on. Based on the context the listener feels certain that the thing said is not a direct indication of how that person feels or acts. The words are not taken at face value as a true expression. I feel that way about these twits. I think the context makes it clear that the writer is not actually racist. Just sick of the crap in her feed. I feel that way about ironic posts on this forum, as outlined in the portions of my prior post you did not reply to. If my memory serves, some people feel that way about locker room talk by fabulists politicians. What seems obvious to some is a stretch too far to others. It depends on the context, and I was trying to give you some contextual clues of how absolutely reprehensible words can be acceptable in the right context. In no way was I being dishonest. Just presenting different situations where words are not being taken at face value. What-ifs, if you will. |
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Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake. |
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6th August 2018, 12:43 PM | #117 |
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Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake. |
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6th August 2018, 01:02 PM | #118 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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6th August 2018, 01:19 PM | #119 |
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Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake. |
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6th August 2018, 01:30 PM | #120 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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