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7th November 2018, 05:55 PM | #41 |
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(snipped)
No, no... I get it completely. Racism is when a white person does anything other than beg for forgiveness for being white and totally cuck themselves. It is particularly racist when a white person makes any effort to preserve their power as a group, or their genetic integrity, or has any sort of positive feelings about their group, or prefers the company of whites, or mates with another white, makes white children, etc. These are all the very epitome of racism. |
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7th November 2018, 06:11 PM | #42 |
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7th November 2018, 06:20 PM | #43 |
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Oh *********. This is just a B.S. delaying tactic.
"Spoon feed me the racism that's already well established." Yeah I'll get right on that right after I show you "just one transitional fossil." |
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7th November 2018, 06:45 PM | #44 |
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They prefer to just be able to appeal to the fact that a lot of other leftists and NYT articles have already called the man a "racist white supremacist Nazi KKK" and use that as their evidence that it's true. They want it to be a starting assumption and "settled science" that anyone who has been called a racist a lot, is definitely a racist.
This is easier than demonstrating it with quotes and such because the quotes generally tend to be less offensive than they want to imply, have other interpretations, and possibly just be worded awkwardly / boomerishly / poorly. In the case of King, I've seen some of these quotes and he just seems like a bit ballsier conservacuck who is certainly better than a Paul Ryan or something but a white nationalist, he is not. He comes the closest, but I promise you he'd still be cucking up a storm about "no no, I think Mexicans are perfectly lovely and I'd love it if my daughter adopted 20 African children. I just want them to fully embrace American values!" if you pressed him. He clearly values the founding stock and he clearly does have a preference for his own people, which is totally normal, but as is ALWAYS the case, the left would have you believe he's about 75% more racist than he actually is. Which suits me just fine. I like when the left helps my side meme these guys into having a higher power level than they actually do. It helps deepen divisions and makes it less possible to bridge the gap that's growing here. Forces the Republicans to become more pro-white and the dems to become more anti-white. All is going exactly according to plan, and with any luck the country will break up on these lines. |
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"Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than that these people are to be free. Nor is it less certain that the two races, equally free, cannot live in the same government. Nature, habit, opinion has drawn indelible lines of distinction between them." - Thomas Jefferson |
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7th November 2018, 07:13 PM | #45 |
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They probably have me on ignore, as I already spoon-fed some. But hell, I'll do some more. Say 'ahh', here comes the train! "Diversity is not our strength." “What does this diversity bring that we don’t already have? Mexican food, Chinese food, those things — well, that’s fine. But what does it bring that we don’t have that is worth the price? We have a lot of diversity within the U.S. already.” - said supporting the arguments of neo-nazis while being interviewed on a neo-nazis show. Latinos “calves the size of cantaloupes because they’re hauling 75 pounds of marijuana across the desert.” he vomited forth. “We add to our population approximately 1.8 million of ‘somebody else’s babies’ who are raised in another culture before they get to us. We are replacing our American culture 2 to 1 every year.” - talking about brown babies. “This whole ‘white people’ business, though, does get a little tired, Charlie. I mean, I’d ask you to go back through history and figure out, where are these contributions that have been made by these other categories of people that you’re talking about? Where did any other subgroup of people contribute to civilization?" on the concept of non-whites contributing to our culture. And it goes on. |
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7th November 2018, 07:19 PM | #46 |
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He's asking if someone will reinforce his hateful stereotypes by daring to disagree with him.
This isn't some amicable Oxford debate, where two people take two sides of some question just for the exercise of arguing each side. When I first joined this forum, I thought that's the kind of discussion that might go on here. But it never really is. Why would I want to play dudalb's game? |
7th November 2018, 07:33 PM | #47 |
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I have some advice on how to handle such a predicament when you don't trust a poster's motives, and you don't want to respond: don't respond. Instead, your opaque presentation leaves readers to fill in the blanks, you're poisoning the well, and you come across like a weasel.
You can nip this in the bud by answering phiwum's question in a straight forward manner. |
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7th November 2018, 07:34 PM | #48 |
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7th November 2018, 07:38 PM | #49 |
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So, you'll defend the white supremacist by derailing the conversation. good to know.
Back to the topic: there's no logical defense of King. Hell, he won his district by 20% last time. this is actually quite an improvement. |
7th November 2018, 07:38 PM | #50 |
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7th November 2018, 08:05 PM | #51 |
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Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. |
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7th November 2018, 08:19 PM | #52 |
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I get that you might not trust his assessment initially and even question his motives, but here is the thing; in this case he's absolutely correct.
Knowing that Steve King really is pretty horrible, exactly what 'hateful stereotype' do you think he's trying to get you to reinforce? The only ones I can think of are that the GOP will defend King (a lot of them won't because he's not their leader and some actually don't like racists), or will run interference for King. Do you realize that by trying to ad-hom and well poison, you are doing the latter? Trying to avoid reinforcing the 'hateful stereotype' has caused you to reinforce the 'hateful stereotype'. Absolutely Delphic. Now that you know King is terrible, is it really that difficult to say, 'wow, I guess the Republican Congressional reelection group was right to pull support from him. He's horrible.'? |
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Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong |
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7th November 2018, 08:26 PM | #53 |
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7th November 2018, 08:31 PM | #54 |
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I'm vaguely aware that King is a vile, racist piece of work. The problem is, "vaguely aware" doesn't suffice.
On a daily basis, public figures are harshly criticized here for things they said ... but without quoting the things they said. Instead, posters cite opinion pieces in which the opinion writer characterizes what the person said. Then lo and behold when you look into it, the person didn't really say what was alleged; the criticism is BS. If I want to convey that person X said something damning, the onus is on me to quote the specific words that best make my case. Otherwise I wouldn't have a consistent standard, because that's what I expect from "the other side". Also -- I want to know the precise words, even if I don't question the premise. Maybe King is a worse piece of **** than even I'm aware of. I'd like to know that. (No, this doesn't mean I require a citation to prove that Nixon said "I am not a crook". Some people/utterances are truly common knowledge.) |
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7th November 2018, 08:49 PM | #55 |
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7th November 2018, 09:08 PM | #56 |
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...so basically, nobody seems to want to defend him (except probably ST, but who cares?), but plenty of people are happy to say that they don't know who Steve King is, and you'd better tell them who he is.
Even though they could just look at his wikipedia page or something. |
7th November 2018, 09:08 PM | #57 |
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If you're implying I have the potential to be violent, you needn't worry.
I'm not an idiot nor a violent person. When I see some of these stories of these complete idiots doing some of what they've been doing, I can only shake my head and wish everyone had the mental fortitude and inner calm to properly process and deal with the nonsense we're facing, but I am not surprised that some people react stupidly and badly to seeing these things. The proper way to react to these challenges is with thought, consideration, convincing others and eventually splitting the country apart peacefully. In the meantime, the best move is to attempt to counter these trends electorally which may not really be viable but it's worth a shot AND what victories do come (like Trump winning, King winning, etc.) serve to drive the anti-white left nuts and make more people aware of how crazy and how anti-white they've become. I think it's amazing that we've reached a point where you find someone expressing concern about violence coming toward THEM AND THEIR GROUP (and this isn't some crazed raving, either, virulent anti-white rhetoric is being completely normalized in our society - un-freaking-deniably so - I dare you to even pretend to deny it) is actually a red flag that THEY might be violent. What a clown world. |
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7th November 2018, 11:28 PM | #58 |
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The result says more about Iowa's Northwest "Redneck District" than it does about King....
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8th November 2018, 02:01 AM | #59 |
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A delusion about some deep plot by "people like [dudalb]" to literally slaughter "YOU AND YOUR GROUP" is the germ of a rationale for an eventual violent defense of "YOU AND YOUR GROUP" against those people, regardless of whether or not you profess in all honestly to be non-violent at the present time.
And your language about an "invasion" and "invaders" eerily echoes that of an individual who only days ago murdered several innocent people in a claimed attempt to protect "YOU AND YOUR GROUP" from the selfsame "invasion". You can object to it being pointed out that these are red flags, but that's what they are nevertheless. And an act of violence isn't what makes such things red flags, it's just what sends future people into internet histories looking for them. |
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8th November 2018, 03:48 AM | #60 |
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8th November 2018, 04:46 AM | #61 |
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Are you surprised? This has been standard conservative tactics for years. They don't defend their extremists, they play dumb and attack the process by which accusations are leveled. Rest assured if King were a liberal jerk instead, we'd already have multiple posters linkdumping from various ultra-right blogs covering his every sin, real or imagined.
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8th November 2018, 05:58 AM | #62 |
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8th November 2018, 06:21 AM | #63 |
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The funny thing is, when a Huffington Post reporter asked King point blank if he was a white supremacist or a white nationalist he pretty much said the same thing. He wasn't going to get into a
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8th November 2018, 08:15 AM | #64 |
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Can you elaborate a bit on what you're actually scared of? I honestly don't understand the motivation behind white supremacy or how membership in various groups is determined.
Example: In the USA in 2018, I enjoy all the privileges of being a white dude. That is to say that I have no memory of ever facing racial or ethnic discrimination as I've gone about my business for the past several decades, while black, brown, yellow, red, etc. dudes in my cohort probably universally have. But how white is white? I'm of Irish/Italian descent, and at various times in our nation's history my ancestors were not considered white (or at least they weren't white enough) and they did face widespread discrimination. So whiteness changed to accommodate my ethnicity; are today's white Americans the worse for letting Irish and Italians into their club? At what point were we included? Why assume that additional white folks (like those with ancestry from the Iberian Peninsula) won't be recognized in the future? I just don't understand why folks put in categories things that are clearly continuous, ignore the things that so obviously span multiple categories, and then adopt such rigid adherence to the importance of the arbitrary categories. In other news, when the Dixie cup of racially motivated crimes against white people from people of color approaches the volume of the overflowing Olympic swimming pool of the reverse, then your equivalency might begin to stop being false. Until then, not so much. |
8th November 2018, 09:25 AM | #65 |
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8th November 2018, 10:58 AM | #66 |
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You are behaving as an absurd character in this discussion. Bring yourself back to a point of being rational, please.
My language also echoes that of THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. Who just got taken to task for calling the caravan "an invasion" as well. The language about how the republicans are awful racists, taking health care from grandma, disenfranchising minorities and screwing the country over in a thousand heartless, greedy, bigoted, cruel ways is all echoed by the guy who shot up the congressional ball game and is echoed by the antifa people who swing bike locks at peoples' heads (easily can be fatal) and burn limousines, smash windows, attack people for hats they're wearing or signs they're carrying. Physical, violent attacks. Planned in advance. There are two sides (at least) to the current political landscape and the ways we on these two sides frame things and the phrases we use and the viewpoints we have are shared among millions of totally normal, reasonable people AND (obviously and naturally) are also shared among the much smaller number of loony, violent people that each side has as well. So again, stop being absurd and implying another poster here could be some sort of mass shooter in the making because they disagree with you. Absolutely absurd conversational "contribution" and you should be ashamed of yourself, so please go ahead and be. I think King shares many elements of my position, in a much cuckier, more mainstream version. I think he instinctively understands that this country (and Europe, Canada, Australia) will be not only unrecognizable but actively hostile toward all previous incarnations of themselves as nations (and the people and statues and names and institutions which represent those previous incarnations) if the demographic make up of these places changes in the dramatic and rapid ways it is doing. I think he views this as a negative thing (you'd have to be a complete blind fool not to) and in that regard, he and I have a similar view but again I think he probably is a lot softer about it and still probably wants to believe that it can be made to work if it's just slowed down, values are emphasized more, culture... language... keep the percentage below a certain number... etc. So I think he's a cuck but just less of one than most of them. |
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8th November 2018, 11:02 AM | #67 |
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Off topic, but is there any word stupider than cuck?
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8th November 2018, 11:10 AM | #68 |
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So, I generally don't pay much attention to who says what on forums. Is Skeptictank for real or a really good poe?
Also, its worth noting that almost nobody defends king, including the GOP. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/31/gop-...t-support.html
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8th November 2018, 11:33 AM | #69 |
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But he did not couple this characterization with prophecy about a literal plan to "slaughter whites". That's beyond the typical "Skyrim for the Nords", whites-are-in-charge-because-they-deserve-to-be brand of American white nationalism and into the land of a Charlie Manson-esque paranoid delusion.
And this thinking will logically justify a violent act of resistance at some point. Supposing your dispassionate and non-violent current strategy, which you call "maybe not really viable but worth a shot", to prevent this fate electorially and split the country peacefully by winning the hearts and minds of white people turns out not to be so viable after all, what is Plan B? Roll over and be "slaughtered"? |
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8th November 2018, 12:21 PM | #70 |
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8th November 2018, 12:26 PM | #71 |
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A right wing member of a right wing party with right wing views? It shouldn't be allowed.
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8th November 2018, 02:25 PM | #72 |
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8th November 2018, 03:28 PM | #73 |
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8th November 2018, 03:37 PM | #74 |
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8th November 2018, 03:53 PM | #75 |
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8th November 2018, 04:17 PM | #76 |
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Thanks. I guess I should have done that, but felt that the "give me examples" routine was just a BS Delaying tactic, since I can't believe that anybody who is interested in US politics is not familiar with King and his long history of outreous statements.
ANd I see that one of our resident Neo Nazis does not like me very much. I take that as a huge compliment. |
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8th November 2018, 04:18 PM | #77 |
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8th November 2018, 04:21 PM | #78 |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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8th November 2018, 04:48 PM | #79 |
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Fallacious reduction. That this blatant racism is objected to does not mean people are saying either that it no right wing views are unobjectionable nor that the view should not 'be allowed'.
Oh yeah, it's so the fault of the progs that you all refuse to even acknowledge blatant racism right in front of you all. That's great personal responsibility. If you don't want to object or to care, fine. But that's on you both, not on anyone else. Own it. Own the consequences of it too. |
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Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong |
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8th November 2018, 04:52 PM | #80 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Honestly while it is good practice to have documented support written out in the thread, or at least linked to, I can't blame you much in this specific case. It's clear that it would not have changed anything as my spoon-feeding several times hasn't changed the arguments at all anyway.
That's the thing about making good points or asking good questions to the GOP supporters; they either ignore it or announce how it is your fault they won't answer. Removing their own agency is the only way they have left to deal intellectually and emotionally with their actions. As the actions they have to defend get worse, the rationalizations will get worse, which in true allows for worse actions... |
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Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong |
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