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5th February 2019, 05:17 AM | #361 |
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5th February 2019, 05:19 AM | #362 |
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Face palm what? AC is entirely correct.
Exactly not. If that's what you think, then you have not paid attention to what AC or I have been saying, and are simply reacting in a "not like me must mean opposite to me" way. |
5th February 2019, 05:21 AM | #363 |
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...I literally just wrote a post explaining how I'm not a liberal. I know some Americans find this concept hard to grasp sometimes, but countries other than America exist.
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5th February 2019, 05:28 AM | #364 |
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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5th February 2019, 05:30 AM | #365 |
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And gray is also a colour, and there's more than one shade of it. But that's another idea some here seem to have a problem with.
As FMW said I think this man's reaction to this news doesn't reflect well on him. He pulled a Kavanaugh, essentially, and it might be the end of his political career. Meh. |
5th February 2019, 05:55 AM | #366 |
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Impeachment doesn't necessarily imply either of those things. What is or is not impeachable is a little fuzzy around the edges: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/p...nt/2755344002/
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5th February 2019, 06:14 AM | #367 |
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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5th February 2019, 06:45 AM | #368 |
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I usually hate the slippery slope argument. But you seem to be traveling on it. I grant you that theoretically you can impeach someone for trying their shoe laces wrong. As for a higher standard, I think you're going for perfection and purity. I simply will not hold a 60 year old man accountable for a non-criminal act committed when they were twenty four.
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5th February 2019, 06:58 AM | #369 |
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How so?
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I think it's a false dichotomy that there's only "perfection and purity" on the one hand and "has done actual racist things that they are still unrepentant about" on the other. I think many people - both in and out of politics - will fall somewhere between those two poles.
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To provide a counter-example, I think the current backlash against Liam Neeson is stupid and ignores both the context and content of what he said. |
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5th February 2019, 07:01 AM | #370 |
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I think the idea is to get a critical mass of Republicans on record as pushing for impeachment despite this not being criminal. Then when those same Republicans refuse to impeach one of their own you can play the quotes back, and I guess have a good wank about how morally superior you are because that's literally the only thing it'll be good for. "Oh no, a Republican is being a rank hypocrite, I must rethink my voting preferences" said no one ever.
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5th February 2019, 07:25 AM | #371 |
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5th February 2019, 07:37 AM | #372 |
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No, that's an exaggeration. You just want the Governor gone for this. And lets be honest. This is a one off. But I watched Al Franken resign from the US Senate over an over-sensitive Democratic party seeking some kind of purity over where he put his hands when hugging fans.
Now AS someone who votes for progressive candidates and thinks we have a long way to go in solving race issues, I'm sympathetic to the opinions from people of color on this. I want what is best for the party and the country. |
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5th February 2019, 07:51 AM | #373 |
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What am I exaggerating? You keep accusing me of random things in weird non-sequiturs and then not explaining what on Earth you're talking about.
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Again, I think there's a middle ground between "committing sexual assault multiple times" and "perfection and purity". Note: none of the above is commenting on whether or not the accusations were true, and whether or not Franken should have resigned. It's simply a comment on your bizarre insistence on false dichotomies. |
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5th February 2019, 08:05 AM | #374 |
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Call it hyperbole then. You said
'If that were true, then everybody would have a secret blackface/KKK incident in their past.' No, it's not. There was the picture of the comedian on a tour with other comedians where Franken feigned grabbing the breasts of a female comedian. And there were women who said upon meeting him, he touched them inappropriately. |
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5th February 2019, 08:27 AM | #375 |
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How's that hyperbole? I said that politicians should be held to the higher standard of not having yearbook pictures of them in blackface/KKK robes and you said that that standard was "perfection and purity". If it's only possible to not have an incident of blackface/wearing KKK robes in your past is if you're perfect, then everybody must have such an incident in their past.
To be clear - your false dichotomy was, and remains, stupid. Demonstrating this is not hyperbole or an exaggeration. At best what you've said is that your statement that the standard of "not having a blackface/KKK incident in your past" requires "perfection" is hyperbolic and exaggerated. Which, sure. That's one of the reasons why is was, and remains, stupid.
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And, yes it is a minimisation to say that complaining about sexual assault is just wanting "some kind of purity over where he put his hands when hugging fans". You could equally say that not thinking it right that Trump walked into the dressing room of Miss World contestants while they were changing was wanting "some kind of purity over walking into a room", but it's minimising what happened and what the implications are. Hell, you could describe "grab them by the pussy" as just being "where he put his hands". I hope you wouldn't pretend that that really encapsulated the whole story, though. To be clear - groping people without their consent is sexual assault. Choosing to phrase it as "where he put his hands" doesn't actually change that. It just makes it seem that you want to make excuses for it and pretend it's not a big deal. If you want to defend Franken on the grounds that you don't think he did what he was accused of, then fine. If you want to defend Franken on the grounds that there was no investigation into what he was accused of and therefore nobody can know whether or not he did it, then fine. If you want to defend Franken on the grounds that it's okay to sexually assault people, then that's not fine. |
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5th February 2019, 08:46 AM | #376 |
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I don't think it is false. I think you're expecting human beings not to have made mistakes when they were young and clueless.
No. What I am saying is that Franken put his hand around someone and they felt that his hand was too high or too low and thought he was copping a feel. That WAS their experience of the incident. Did any of these women say he placed his hand on their vagina? I don't recall that. I've never heard Al say misogynistic statements. |
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5th February 2019, 09:06 AM | #377 |
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Yes, I know that that's what you seem to think, no matter how many times I say what I actually mean - including specific refutations of this point, even giving an example of someone who confessed to something much worse that I think is undeserving of the backlash he's getting. That you choose to keep repeating the same thing despite the facts isn't something I have any power to change, beyond either correcting you yet again, or simply imploring you to address what I'm actually saying rather than keeping battling a straw man.
And you're still pushing the idea that everybody has something like this in their past. This doesn't become a less stupid thing to say if you repeat it a bunch of times.
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I hope you don't think I'm holding you to an impossibly high standard of perfection and purity if I say I think you can make better arguments than this. |
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5th February 2019, 09:30 AM | #378 |
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I'm NOT saying everyone has something in their past... (btw, there is no 'like this'. Each situation is unique) I just believe there should be a reasonable statute of limitations. Reaching back 3 decades seems ridiculous. What the Governor has done since is 100 times more important to me.
Good one. My point is that each situation is unique. But I watch Republicans forgive their politicians for EVERYTHING...all the time consolidating power and in contrast Democrats trying to prove they are pure of thought and spirit in comparison cutting off their noses to spite their face. |
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5th February 2019, 09:50 AM | #379 |
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Then thinking politicians should be held to a higher standard than "having a blackface/KKK incident in their past" isn't holding them to a standard of "perfection and purity", is it? There should be no problem in holding politicians to that standard.
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Trump is a consequence of, amongst other things, the Republican party putting party before anything else - of forgiving their guys anything because they're their guys. If you think the Democrats should also go down that road, then you're just looking towards them having their own Trump in a few decades. I think that the ideal is for politics to become less corrupt, sleazy, and tribal, not more. And, while I'm not going to make any predictions for the future, I've seen several commentators suggest that Trump is the beginning of the end for the Republican party. |
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5th February 2019, 10:04 AM | #380 |
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When they were 25? I'm not having it. Don't care.
Which I have repeatedly said is more important. He certainly has fumbled it. It's not that I want to be like them. It's that I think Health insurance, a clean environment, better education, better wages, a more fair income distribution and actual minority rights is more important than a pyhrric victory of purity. |
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5th February 2019, 10:16 AM | #381 |
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I've been thinking, I think that in 1984 I knew black face was racist and a bad idea and wouldn't have dressed as a klansmen for some sort of costume ball but, the evidence is that we tend to forget that we ever thought differently than we do now.
Also, in 1986 the movie Soul Man was released. Starring C Thomas Howell in blackface as a white guy that gets in to harvard on a scholarship meant for black people. This film also starred Rae Dawn Chong and James Earl Rae. Times were truly different. |
5th February 2019, 10:28 AM | #382 |
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What's weird is I could see myself doing almost ANYTHING as a joke. Now, I never did those things. But I can't say it was because I was sensitive about race relations. I just never thought that what I did mattered even if someone found it offensive. The closest I ever got to wearing blackface was when I dressed up as a character from Star Trek who was half white and half black.
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5th February 2019, 10:31 AM | #383 |
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5th February 2019, 10:34 AM | #384 |
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I know you don't. That doesn't mean that people who do are holding politicians to an impossible standard of "perfection and purity".
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5th February 2019, 10:48 AM | #385 |
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5th February 2019, 10:50 AM | #386 |
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5th February 2019, 10:58 AM | #387 |
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5th February 2019, 11:05 AM | #388 |
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My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie. |
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5th February 2019, 11:05 AM | #389 |
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5th February 2019, 11:08 AM | #390 |
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5th February 2019, 11:08 AM | #391 |
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5th February 2019, 11:10 AM | #392 |
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5th February 2019, 11:11 AM | #393 |
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5th February 2019, 11:13 AM | #394 |
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5th February 2019, 12:23 PM | #395 |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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5th February 2019, 12:24 PM | #396 |
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"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
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5th February 2019, 12:56 PM | #397 |
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Would "it must have been me, because the caption says I was there, but I don't remember which costume I was wearing. I found out in the decades since that neither costume is acceptable. I apologize for being young and stupid." have been the right way of handling it? I don't think any response would satisfy the people calling for his head.
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5th February 2019, 01:03 PM | #398 |
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This sounds too wishy-washy.
You've either got to own it, or disown it. I made a mistake, I regret it, evidently I wasn't able to track down every copy of that yearbook... or It wasn't me, the students that ran that yearbook thought they were playing a joke on me... |
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"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
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5th February 2019, 01:04 PM | #399 |
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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5th February 2019, 01:07 PM | #400 |
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"It was just a joke made in bad taste. Get over it."
Yeah, not a great campaign slogan. |
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