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Tags Atlanta incidents , Eric Sparkes , Erica Thomas , Georgia incidents , Georgia politics , racism charges , racism incidents

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Old 24th July 2019, 06:19 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
She may be lying, but the witness testimony doesn't contradict her account. Her description seems to imply that his "go back where you came from" comment was close to the start of the altercation. The witness is clear that she only heard the altercation later.
She is also crystal clear that she did not hear those words spoken by Sparkes.

Sparkes was seen leaving and being followed by Thomas who was venting "go back where you come from". I'd bet my house she's lying, but that's simply my take.

One of our lamented ex-contributors would have termed her a "grifter".

Quote:
And I still object to the notion that her initial action of using the 10 items or less lane is something she needed to account for in any way. Its a practical policy, not a law. It matters only to the extent that it causes inconvenience to others. At the point that there are plenty of empty lanes and no one has to wait, the rule has no meaning or power.
By virtue of the fact that a "rule" (policy) is posted up then one can be expected to adhere to it, however mundane, for the greater good of all. It's called acting for the benefit of many and not the benefit of one.

The fact that there were other empty lanes muddies things somewhat. Why did she chose this one lane (controversially) when other lanes would have presented her with a blame free solution?

If one decides to ignore the "rule" (policy) then one can expect to be called on to account for ones actions.
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Old 24th July 2019, 06:40 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Maybe they should change the sign at the checkout lane to clarify that it is a "suggested limit" and not a hard limit, since store policy is to not actually enforce the limit.
Something needs to be changed as their outright refusal to deal with this issue at source is the main cause of the blame.

I'll bet if a store employee had spoken to Thomas and come back and told Sparkes that she was heavily pregnant and dealing with kids he'd have let it slide, but ohhhhhhh noooooo they made him sheriff for a day.
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Old 24th July 2019, 06:47 AM   #83
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There are a few issues that this confrontation has brought to light that may be worthy of debate here.

1. Sparkes declares, "I am not white. I am Cuban". Really? A quick search of demographics of Cuba shows at least four "racially" defined groups: white, mulatto, black, and asian. But maybe Cubans see their nationality as a race of some sort. I would like to hear your opinion on this, especially any posters of Cuban descent.

2. Apparently a lot of social mediaites around the world have not learned from the Jussie Smolette fracas to refrain from jumping on whatever train tickles their fancy before all the facts are in. Personally, I haven't dropped off the fence in the Smolette affair yet but I do lean to the side that depicts him as a hoaxter. It disturbs me how quickly people rush to judgment. In the USA, I blame it on the sheep factor. Too many folks here are so easily willing to be followers of someone or something that they might incur the fate of lemmings.

3. If it were not for Trump's "go back" statement, this confrontation would never be in the news, however, Thomas did go out of her way to try to get news coverage. Since there appears to be no audio of the event, we may never know if Sparkes ever uttered the phrase. I find it amusing that both are of the same political party.
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Old 24th July 2019, 07:23 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
I would have been more upset at being called a bitch, honestly. I'm not sure why this woman felt the need to add more to the insult (if indeed that's what happened). "Bitch" is a terrible enough word on its own.

"But men can be bitches too!" Okay, well, if you say so - any man who wanted to flip out at being called that isn't going to get any argument from me.

"But women call each other bitches affectionately!" Ah, the n-word defense. Can't speak for what anyone else does, but I sure don't call my friends bitches. Also, even if I did, strangers have a different threshold. Strangers calling me "sweetie" aren't going to get a very positive response either.

Let's see, what else. "But bitch can be a neutral verb! Like someone is bitching about something." Okay, well, that's irrelevant because you weren't calling the woman a neutral verb.

"But bitch is a female dog!" Ah, that makes it a lot better!
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Old 24th July 2019, 07:25 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
She had 15 items in the 10 and under line.
So that's the ten part and she was under with the other 5...
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Old 24th July 2019, 07:31 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
She is also crystal clear that she did not hear those words spoken by Sparkes.



Sparkes was seen leaving and being followed by Thomas who was venting "go back where you come from". I'd bet my house she's lying, but that's simply my take.



One of our lamented ex-contributors would have termed her a "grifter".







By virtue of the fact that a "rule" (policy) is posted up then one can be expected to adhere to it, however mundane, for the greater good of all. It's called acting for the benefit of many and not the benefit of one.



The fact that there were other empty lanes muddies things somewhat. Why did she chose this one lane (controversially) when other lanes would have presented her with a blame free solution?



If one decides to ignore the "rule" (policy) then one can expect to be called on to account for ones actions.
True, as you'll know in the UK this would have had the shop in uproar, one or two people might have even tutted (not loud enough for her to hear of course, we are not barbarians)
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Old 24th July 2019, 07:31 AM   #87
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Thanks for that important report on this developing story, Susan.

We now return you to season twenty-five of The Bachelor.
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Old 24th July 2019, 07:33 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
True, as you'll know in the UK this would have had the shop in uproar, one or two people might have even tutted (not loud enough for her to hear of course, we are not barbarians)
Don't forget the knowing glance at each other.
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Old 24th July 2019, 07:37 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Don't forget the knowing glance at each other.
And, if somebody's feeling really offended, an almost imperceptible shake of the head.

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Old 24th July 2019, 07:38 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
And, if somebody's feeling really offended, an almost imperceptible shake of the head.

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With lips pursed.
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Old 25th July 2019, 01:46 PM   #91
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So the Babylon Bee (a satire website which explicitly labels itself as such) did a story on Erica Thomas. No big deal. Except Snopes felt the need to fact check their satire. And not for the first time either.

The Bee has struck back, though:
Snopes Publishes Helpful Fact Check On 1996 Basketball Documentary 'Space Jam'
Snopes Rolls Out New Opinion Check Feature
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Old 25th July 2019, 02:12 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
So the Babylon Bee (a satire website which explicitly labels itself as such) did a story on Erica Thomas. No big deal. Except Snopes felt the need to fact check their satire. And not for the first time either.

The Bee has struck back, though:
Snopes Publishes Helpful Fact Check On 1996 Basketball Documentary 'Space Jam'
Snopes Rolls Out New Opinion Check Feature
Did you read the Snopes article by any chance?
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Old 25th July 2019, 02:43 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
Did you read the Snopes article by any chance?
I did. The Snopes people come across as humorless pricks who are more invested in white-knighting for racist douchebags with a (D) after their name, than they are invested in actually fact-checking and debunking stuff.

But that's just the one article. Maybe they come across as reputable researchers in their other articles.

---

ETA: Though, the Bee's satire in this case depends on in part on knowing that Chick-Fil-A employees are trained to be very cheerfully polite, and that "my pleasure" is kind of a catchphrase with them. That satirical "tell" may have been lost on Snopes's audience.

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Old 25th July 2019, 03:00 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I did. The Snopes people come across as humorless pricks who are more invested in white-knighting for racist douchebags with a (D) after their name, than they are invested in actually fact-checking and debunking stuff.

But that's just the one article. Maybe they come across as reputable researchers in their other articles.

---

ETA: Though, the Bee's satire in this case depends on in part on knowing that Chick-Fil-A employees are trained to be very cheerfully polite, and that "my pleasure" is kind of a catchphrase with them. That satirical "tell" may have been lost on Snopes's audience.
Did you read the many links within the Snopes article of conservatives taking the Bee article as factual?
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Old 25th July 2019, 03:08 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
Did you read the many links within the Snopes article of conservatives taking the Bee article as factual?
The "dozens of instances" on social media they linked to at the bottom of the piece?

I'm sure you can find dozens of people on social media who think any given bit of satire is true. But I bet Snopes doesn't run around white-knighting every Onion headline that somebody on Facebook thought was real.
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Old 25th July 2019, 03:15 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The "dozens of instances" on social media they linked to at the bottom of the piece?

I'm sure you can find dozens of people on social media who think any given bit of satire is true. But I bet Snopes doesn't run around white-knighting every Onion headline that somebody on Facebook thought was real.
It's a fact checking site. Checking a claim that is spread online and believed as true is their job.

I've always been a bit bewildered by the phrase "White knighting". It seems to be used when one can't find anything legitimate to criticize and so find a need to make a vague smear with no substance about motives.

"Sure they're correct in their facts, and sure people are apparently confused so a correction is needed, but but but THEY'RE WHITE KNIGHTS"

It's sort of a meaningless growl when you have nothing else.
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Old 25th July 2019, 03:17 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Georgia state Rep. Erica Thomas was left in a right old state...

Yeah. Georgia.
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Old 25th July 2019, 04:14 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
It's a fact checking site. Checking a claim that is spread online and believed as true is their job.
Not all claims spread online are worth fact checking, especially explicit satire.

And their attempts to blame the Babylon Bee as if it did anything wrong reveal them to be partisan and humorless hacks.
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Old 25th July 2019, 04:31 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Not all claims spread online are worth fact checking, especially explicit satire.
.
Satire that people mistake to be true is worth addressing, no?
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Old 25th July 2019, 04:40 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
Satire that people mistake to be true is worth addressing, no?
How many people?

But suppose we decide we should. The way Snopes chose to was itself a complete farce. All you have to do is say it's a satire. No more comments are necessary. Instead, Snopes chose to beclown themselves.
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Old 25th July 2019, 07:06 PM   #101
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I haven't read either article but I do think that there's a lot of fake news that calls itself "satire" but doesn't always read as such. Just my two cents. Such sites tend to have their stories go "viral" when casual Facebook users mistake them for news reports.

I wouldn't put the Babylon Bee in that category but I don't think it's nearly as good as The Onion.
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Old 25th July 2019, 07:15 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
It's a fact checking site.
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Old 26th July 2019, 09:43 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
Satire that people mistake to be true is worth addressing, no?

Definitely. When the alt-rights get poe'd by an Onion (or Bee) article or any other piece of satire and turn its (apparent) claims into an urban myth, it's obvious that it's something that Snopes should factcheck. (And it probably doesn't require much effort if the source is as easy to find as an Onion article.)
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Old 26th July 2019, 11:31 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Definitely. When the alt-rights get poe'd by an Onion (or Bee) article or any other piece of satire and turn its (apparent) claims into an urban myth, it's obvious that it's something that Snopes should factcheck. (And it probably doesn't require much effort if the source is as easy to find as an Onion article.)
Didn't a cop just get tricked by some 'satire' that caused him to imply that someone should shoot AOC?
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Old 26th July 2019, 11:40 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Definitely. When the alt-rights get poe'd by an Onion (or Bee) article or any other piece of satire and turn its (apparent) claims into an urban myth, it's obvious that it's something that Snopes should factcheck. (And it probably doesn't require much effort if the source is as easy to find as an Onion article.)
Is the New York Times "alt-right"?
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Old 26th July 2019, 12:08 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
It would be extremely strange for a Cuban to tell someone to go back to their country. I don't really know where I stand on this, but that would be a bit ironic. He also seems pretty adamant about not saying that even going so far as to say he's exploring a defamation suit. Thomas and her lawyer have also implied that they are asking witnesses (of which there appear to be 4, though 1 doesn't remember hearing those words) to get ready to testify.

Both seem confident, but I would almost bet that after a week or so this will fade into the background and no one will hear about it again.
There is apparently no audio recording of what was said, so it's kind of a he said, she said. It's hard to tell what the truth is. I did read in the linked article that when the guy complained, there were two regular checkout lanes with no wait, so it seems to me to be kind of rude to make an issue of it (but also to use the express lane with more items than allowed). At this point, it kind of looks like a slap fight between two annoying people.
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Old 26th July 2019, 12:12 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
There is apparently no audio recording of what was said, so it's kind of a he said, she said.
Not quite. There have been published accounts from third party witnesses who come much closer to his account than hers.

Quote:
At this point, it kind of looks like a slap fight between two annoying people.
Quite likely, most slap fights are. But only one participant decided to try to turn it into a national story.
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Old 26th July 2019, 12:14 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
She is also crystal clear that she did not hear those words spoken by Sparkes.

Sparkes was seen leaving and being followed by Thomas who was venting "go back where you come from". I'd bet my house she's lying, but that's simply my take.

One of our lamented ex-contributors would have termed her a "grifter".



By virtue of the fact that a "rule" (policy) is posted up then one can be expected to adhere to it, however mundane, for the greater good of all. It's called acting for the benefit of many and not the benefit of one.

The fact that there were other empty lanes muddies things somewhat. Why did she chose this one lane (controversially) when other lanes would have presented her with a blame free solution?

If one decides to ignore the "rule" (policy) then one can expect to be called on to account for ones actions.
The fact that there were other empty lanes also raises the question of why Sparkes would be bothered to complain about her taking too many items through the express lane, when it affected his wait time not at all. As I said in my previous post, it seems like we are dealing with two obnoxious idiots here.
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Old 26th July 2019, 12:21 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Not quite. There have been published accounts from third party witnesses who come much closer to his account than hers.



Quite likely, most slap fights are. But only one participant decided to try to turn it into a national story.
So, we have one idiot who starts a confrontation over too many items through the express lane when it cause him no harm at all, and another who plays the race card and (probably) falsely accuses him of bigotry. If this is really how it went down, I suppose she "wins" the stupid prize for playing her stupid game. IMO, neither of them look very good in this.
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Old 26th July 2019, 12:25 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
So, we have one idiot who starts a confrontation over too many items through the express lane when it cause him no harm at all, and another who plays the race card and (probably) falsely accuses him of bigotry. If this is really how it went down, I suppose she "wins" the stupid prize for playing her stupid game. IMO, neither of them look very good in this.
On the other hand, expressing frustration in the moment at someone violating a social norm is way more understandable and forgivable than her retaliation.
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Old 26th July 2019, 12:31 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
On the other hand, expressing frustration in the moment at someone violating a social norm is way more understandable and forgivable than her retaliation.
1) 10 items or less isn't a social norm, it's a store policy for the purpose of keeping wait times low for people with a few items. I guess adhering to store policies is sort of a social norm, but to the extent that no one had to wait behind her, this wasn't a social interaction.

2) In the moment might have been if he said something while he walked by her. He checked out his groceries, went to the help desk, had a conversation there, walked back to accost her. This was a deliberate action that he made a decision to undertake.

3) Calling someone who isn't harming anyone a "Lazy bitch" isn't merely expressing frustration, it's violating a much stronger social norm than having a few extra items in this context could ever be.

Your sophistry doesn't work when pretty much every facet of it is BS.
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Old 26th July 2019, 12:33 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
So, we have one idiot who starts a confrontation over too many items through the express lane when it cause him no harm at all, and another who plays the race card and (probably) falsely accuses him of bigotry. If this is really how it went down, I suppose she "wins" the stupid prize for playing her stupid game. IMO, neither of them look very good in this.
Sure.

The larger problem, though, is with the general willingness to make isolated acts of stupidity into headlines. No matter which version you believe, this shouldn't have been a national story, at all. Nobody but the actual witnesses should even know it happened.

It's like we're living in a panopticon. But the watcher has Emily Litella-like eyesight.
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Old 26th July 2019, 01:41 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Is the New York Times "alt-right"?

What does your link say?!
I've seen right-wing articles in the NYT.
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Old 26th July 2019, 01:57 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
1) 10 items or less isn't a social norm, it's a store policy for the purpose of keeping wait times low for people with a few items. I guess adhering to store policies is sort of a social norm, but to the extent that no one had to wait behind her, this wasn't a social interaction.

2) In the moment might have been if he said something while he walked by her. He checked out his groceries, went to the help desk, had a conversation there, walked back to accost her. This was a deliberate action that he made a decision to undertake.

3) Calling someone who isn't harming anyone a "Lazy bitch" isn't merely expressing frustration, it's violating a much stronger social norm than having a few extra items in this context could ever be.

Your sophistry doesn't work when pretty much every facet of it is BS.
Pretty much this. This entire thing is pretty much the definition of pettiness all around.

Who even pays attention to lines they aren't waiting in or even intend to wait in? On the flip, who tries to get attention over something so stupid?

So stupid.
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Old 26th July 2019, 02:17 PM   #115
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Frustrated shopper gets dragged into a public spectacle by a racist piece of ****.

"Oh, hum, well, nobody in this story comes out looking very good."
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Old 26th July 2019, 02:23 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Frustrated shopper gets dragged into a public spectacle by a racist piece of ****.

"Oh, hum, well, nobody in this story comes out looking very good."
These misrepresentations have been addressed. Repeating them does not accomplish anything.
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Old 26th July 2019, 02:48 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Frustrated shopper gets dragged into a public spectacle by a racist piece of ****.

"Oh, hum, well, nobody in this story comes out looking very good."
Dood, he ******* instigated it! What was he frustrated at? That a person in a line he wasn't in, that didn't effect him at all, did something that no one else gave a **** about, threw a temper tantrum and called her names?

What do you want people to get up in arms about? Everyone has said she looks like a moron, which she does. He, also, looks like a moron. They're morons. Are you pissed that people aren't swearing about her checking out with 15 ******* items? Who gives a ******
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Old 26th July 2019, 04:10 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
What does your link say?!
I've seen right-wing articles in the NYT.
alt-right is not synonymous with right-wing. And follow the link if you're curious. You won't get a virus, I promise. You won't get right-wing cooties either.
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Old 26th July 2019, 09:42 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
How many people?
It doesn't matter. Snopes' MO is to fact check claims when enough people have pinged their inbox asking if such-and-such as written here-and-there is true or not.

This:
Quote:
The Babylon Bee has managed to fool readers with its brand of satire in the past. This particular story was especially confusing for some readers, however, as it closely mirrored the events of a genuine news story, with the exception of the website’s changing the location from “Publix” to the more controversial Chick-Fil-A.
...is a perfectly legitimate reason to extend their remarks beyond a simple "it's satire, end of story". The only "beclowning" in evidence is yours, for this bizarrely rabid set against Snopes'....I don't even know. What you perceive to be their "tone", apparently?....in their otherwise completely accurate fact-check.
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Old 27th July 2019, 04:23 AM   #120
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Exactly! When an article appears in The Onion or in The Babylon Bee, that is not a reason for Snopes to fact check it. However, when their stories begin to circulate online as memes because right-wing idiots think they are true or want others to think they are, that's when it becomes expedient to fact check them.
It probably won't be long because this bit of childish 'satire' is considered a fact by alt-right idiots: Ocasio-Cortez Appears On 'The Price Is Right,' Guesses Everything Is Free

AOC wants health care for all and a minimum wage that people can actually survive on, but she is so dumb that she doesn't understand that these things have to be paid for, so let's pretend that she never told us how she proposes that they are to be paid for.
You actually have to be stupid enough to believe that, in order to find the 'joke' funny!! That's how dumb the 'satire' at The Babylon Bee is. Circulating it on social media, that's how dumb right-wingers are.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/oc...rice-is-right/

ETA: https://imgflip.com/i/2yjzm8
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