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24th July 2019, 06:19 AM | #81 |
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She is also crystal clear that she did not hear those words spoken by Sparkes.
Sparkes was seen leaving and being followed by Thomas who was venting "go back where you come from". I'd bet my house she's lying, but that's simply my take. One of our lamented ex-contributors would have termed her a "grifter".
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The fact that there were other empty lanes muddies things somewhat. Why did she chose this one lane (controversially) when other lanes would have presented her with a blame free solution? If one decides to ignore the "rule" (policy) then one can expect to be called on to account for ones actions. |
24th July 2019, 06:40 AM | #82 |
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Something needs to be changed as their outright refusal to deal with this issue at source is the main cause of the blame.
I'll bet if a store employee had spoken to Thomas and come back and told Sparkes that she was heavily pregnant and dealing with kids he'd have let it slide, but ohhhhhhh noooooo they made him sheriff for a day. |
24th July 2019, 06:47 AM | #83 |
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There are a few issues that this confrontation has brought to light that may be worthy of debate here.
1. Sparkes declares, "I am not white. I am Cuban". Really? A quick search of demographics of Cuba shows at least four "racially" defined groups: white, mulatto, black, and asian. But maybe Cubans see their nationality as a race of some sort. I would like to hear your opinion on this, especially any posters of Cuban descent. 2. Apparently a lot of social mediaites around the world have not learned from the Jussie Smolette fracas to refrain from jumping on whatever train tickles their fancy before all the facts are in. Personally, I haven't dropped off the fence in the Smolette affair yet but I do lean to the side that depicts him as a hoaxter. It disturbs me how quickly people rush to judgment. In the USA, I blame it on the sheep factor. Too many folks here are so easily willing to be followers of someone or something that they might incur the fate of lemmings. 3. If it were not for Trump's "go back" statement, this confrontation would never be in the news, however, Thomas did go out of her way to try to get news coverage. Since there appears to be no audio of the event, we may never know if Sparkes ever uttered the phrase. I find it amusing that both are of the same political party. |
24th July 2019, 07:23 AM | #84 |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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24th July 2019, 07:25 AM | #85 |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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24th July 2019, 07:31 AM | #86 |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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24th July 2019, 07:31 AM | #87 |
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Thanks for that important report on this developing story, Susan.
We now return you to season twenty-five of The Bachelor. |
24th July 2019, 07:33 AM | #88 |
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24th July 2019, 07:37 AM | #89 |
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24th July 2019, 07:38 AM | #90 |
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25th July 2019, 01:46 PM | #91 |
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So the Babylon Bee (a satire website which explicitly labels itself as such) did a story on Erica Thomas. No big deal. Except Snopes felt the need to fact check their satire. And not for the first time either.
The Bee has struck back, though: Snopes Publishes Helpful Fact Check On 1996 Basketball Documentary 'Space Jam' Snopes Rolls Out New Opinion Check Feature |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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25th July 2019, 02:12 PM | #92 |
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The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON |
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25th July 2019, 02:43 PM | #93 |
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I did. The Snopes people come across as humorless pricks who are more invested in white-knighting for racist douchebags with a (D) after their name, than they are invested in actually fact-checking and debunking stuff.
But that's just the one article. Maybe they come across as reputable researchers in their other articles. --- ETA: Though, the Bee's satire in this case depends on in part on knowing that Chick-Fil-A employees are trained to be very cheerfully polite, and that "my pleasure" is kind of a catchphrase with them. That satirical "tell" may have been lost on Snopes's audience. |
25th July 2019, 03:00 PM | #94 |
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The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON |
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25th July 2019, 03:08 PM | #95 |
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The "dozens of instances" on social media they linked to at the bottom of the piece?
I'm sure you can find dozens of people on social media who think any given bit of satire is true. But I bet Snopes doesn't run around white-knighting every Onion headline that somebody on Facebook thought was real. |
25th July 2019, 03:15 PM | #96 |
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It's a fact checking site. Checking a claim that is spread online and believed as true is their job.
I've always been a bit bewildered by the phrase "White knighting". It seems to be used when one can't find anything legitimate to criticize and so find a need to make a vague smear with no substance about motives. "Sure they're correct in their facts, and sure people are apparently confused so a correction is needed, but but but THEY'RE WHITE KNIGHTS" It's sort of a meaningless growl when you have nothing else. |
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The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON |
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25th July 2019, 03:17 PM | #97 |
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25th July 2019, 04:14 PM | #98 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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25th July 2019, 04:31 PM | #99 |
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The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON |
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25th July 2019, 04:40 PM | #100 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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25th July 2019, 07:06 PM | #101 |
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I haven't read either article but I do think that there's a lot of fake news that calls itself "satire" but doesn't always read as such. Just my two cents. Such sites tend to have their stories go "viral" when casual Facebook users mistake them for news reports.
I wouldn't put the Babylon Bee in that category but I don't think it's nearly as good as The Onion. |
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25th July 2019, 07:15 PM | #102 |
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26th July 2019, 09:43 AM | #103 |
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Definitely. When the alt-rights get poe'd by an Onion (or Bee) article or any other piece of satire and turn its (apparent) claims into an urban myth, it's obvious that it's something that Snopes should factcheck. (And it probably doesn't require much effort if the source is as easy to find as an Onion article.) |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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26th July 2019, 11:31 AM | #104 |
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26th July 2019, 11:40 AM | #105 |
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Is the New York Times "alt-right"?
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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26th July 2019, 12:08 PM | #106 |
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There is apparently no audio recording of what was said, so it's kind of a he said, she said. It's hard to tell what the truth is. I did read in the linked article that when the guy complained, there were two regular checkout lanes with no wait, so it seems to me to be kind of rude to make an issue of it (but also to use the express lane with more items than allowed). At this point, it kind of looks like a slap fight between two annoying people.
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26th July 2019, 12:12 PM | #107 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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26th July 2019, 12:14 PM | #108 |
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The fact that there were other empty lanes also raises the question of why Sparkes would be bothered to complain about her taking too many items through the express lane, when it affected his wait time not at all. As I said in my previous post, it seems like we are dealing with two obnoxious idiots here.
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26th July 2019, 12:21 PM | #109 |
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So, we have one idiot who starts a confrontation over too many items through the express lane when it cause him no harm at all, and another who plays the race card and (probably) falsely accuses him of bigotry. If this is really how it went down, I suppose she "wins" the stupid prize for playing her stupid game. IMO, neither of them look very good in this.
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26th July 2019, 12:25 PM | #110 |
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There is no Antimemetics Division. |
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26th July 2019, 12:31 PM | #111 |
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1) 10 items or less isn't a social norm, it's a store policy for the purpose of keeping wait times low for people with a few items. I guess adhering to store policies is sort of a social norm, but to the extent that no one had to wait behind her, this wasn't a social interaction.
2) In the moment might have been if he said something while he walked by her. He checked out his groceries, went to the help desk, had a conversation there, walked back to accost her. This was a deliberate action that he made a decision to undertake. 3) Calling someone who isn't harming anyone a "Lazy bitch" isn't merely expressing frustration, it's violating a much stronger social norm than having a few extra items in this context could ever be. Your sophistry doesn't work when pretty much every facet of it is BS. |
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The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON |
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26th July 2019, 12:33 PM | #112 |
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Sure.
The larger problem, though, is with the general willingness to make isolated acts of stupidity into headlines. No matter which version you believe, this shouldn't have been a national story, at all. Nobody but the actual witnesses should even know it happened. It's like we're living in a panopticon. But the watcher has Emily Litella-like eyesight. |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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26th July 2019, 01:41 PM | #113 |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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26th July 2019, 01:57 PM | #114 |
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26th July 2019, 02:17 PM | #115 |
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Frustrated shopper gets dragged into a public spectacle by a racist piece of ****.
"Oh, hum, well, nobody in this story comes out looking very good." |
26th July 2019, 02:23 PM | #116 |
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The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON |
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26th July 2019, 02:48 PM | #117 |
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Dood, he ******* instigated it! What was he frustrated at? That a person in a line he wasn't in, that didn't effect him at all, did something that no one else gave a **** about, threw a temper tantrum and called her names?
What do you want people to get up in arms about? Everyone has said she looks like a moron, which she does. He, also, looks like a moron. They're morons. Are you pissed that people aren't swearing about her checking out with 15 ******* items? Who gives a ****** |
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“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss |
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26th July 2019, 04:10 PM | #118 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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26th July 2019, 09:42 PM | #119 |
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It doesn't matter. Snopes' MO is to fact check claims when enough people have pinged their inbox asking if such-and-such as written here-and-there is true or not.
This:
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27th July 2019, 04:23 AM | #120 |
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Exactly! When an article appears in The Onion or in The Babylon Bee, that is not a reason for Snopes to fact check it. However, when their stories begin to circulate online as memes because right-wing idiots think they are true or want others to think they are, that's when it becomes expedient to fact check them.
It probably won't be long because this bit of childish 'satire' is considered a fact by alt-right idiots: Ocasio-Cortez Appears On 'The Price Is Right,' Guesses Everything Is Free AOC wants health care for all and a minimum wage that people can actually survive on, but she is so dumb that she doesn't understand that these things have to be paid for, so let's pretend that she never told us how she proposes that they are to be paid for. You actually have to be stupid enough to believe that, in order to find the 'joke' funny!! That's how dumb the 'satire' at The Babylon Bee is. Circulating it on social media, that's how dumb right-wingers are. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/oc...rice-is-right/ ETA: https://imgflip.com/i/2yjzm8 |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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