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30th July 2019, 09:29 PM | #1 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The Lion's Den
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Trump vs Elijah: Baltimore, BLM and urban decay
The city of Baltimore is back in the news again due to the tweet storm between President Trump and Representative Elijah Cummings. Let's focus on this specific debate and discuss the conditions of our large urban centers and what has happened to them.
The Black Lives Matter movement became prominent in 2014 over the deaths of Michael Brown in Ferguson and Eric Garner in New York City. It became a very powerful movement during the last few years of the Obama administration. Let's assess the results in a few cities. 1) Baltimore: The murder rate exploded in 2015, the year of Freddie Gray and the riots. Year | Murders | Rate 2013 233 37.4 2014 211 33.8 2015 344 55.4 2016 318 51.4 2017 343 57.8 2018 309 50.5 The Baltimore riots occurred on April 27, 2015 and there is a sharp increase in homicides right after this point. 2) St Louis: The murder rate exploded in 2014, the year of Michael Brown in Ferguson. Year | Murders 2013 120 2014 159 2015 188 2016 188 2017 205 3) Chicago: The murder rate exploded in 2016, the year after Laquan McDonald and the ACLU victories over the CPD. Year | Murders 2013 421 2014 416 2015 485 2016 764 2017 650 2018 555 Note: The murder rate in Chicago jumped 57 percent in one year, 2016! In 2015, the U.S. experienced the largest single year increase in its homicide rate since 1990, according to the most recently available data from the FBI.3 In that year, cities like Baltimore, Milwaukee, and Washington, D.C. saw their homicide rates grow at least as fast as Chicago’s did in 2016. University of Chicago Crime Lab The total number of homicides nationally in 2016 was 20% higher than in 2014. This increase was primarily concentrated in a few urban areas. So there was an additional 4,450 murders over the base year of 2014. This is more than the number of Americans killed on 9/11 and roughly the same as the number of Americans killed in Iraq. This sudden and sharp increase in the murder rate has been dubbed the Ferguson effect, the Black Lives Matter effect or simply Late Obama Age collapse. It is a striking indication of what happens when the Left takes over and subverts law enforcement. But who was held accountable for this disaster? No one as far as I can tell. The Left will call you a "racist" for simply pointing this out. Trump deserves credit for not bowing to the outrage mob. The wages of Liberalism is death. |
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pomeroo: "Mark, where did this guy get the idea that you talked about holding aluminum in your hand?" Undesired Walrus: "Why, Ron, Mark mentioned this on your very own show!" |
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30th July 2019, 09:38 PM | #2 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 22,557
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Any particular reason why you use the President's last, but the Representative's first name in the title?
I assume you are on first-name terms? |
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“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
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30th July 2019, 10:12 PM | #3 |
Straussian
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 15,419
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Thanks, Obama.
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Cain: Don't be a homo. Diablo: What's that supposed to mean? Cain: It's a heteronormative remark meant to be taken at face-value. |
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30th July 2019, 10:20 PM | #4 |
Skepticifimisticalationist
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Location: Gulf Coast
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"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 |
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31st July 2019, 12:33 AM | #5 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2014
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In our town in Australia, the murder rate jumped by 100% in three years! In 2016, one person was killed. In 2018, two people were killed.
IT'S A (statistical) EPIDEMIC! |
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...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
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31st July 2019, 01:14 AM | #6 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,303
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Our rightmost mainstream party is way left of your leftmost party....liberalism hasn't done us any harm over here.....in 2017 we had 35 murders in a country of five million people. But then we don't have a population made up of 35% redneck racists with a Racist in Chief as their Dear Leader
NOTE: Our 2019 jump in the murder rate was caused by a single ultra-right wing racist who imported himself from another country to kill people! |
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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31st July 2019, 01:25 AM | #7 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,726
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Well, we’ll have to discuss not only want local issues, but issues of national policy as well
I do not think you want this. |
31st July 2019, 01:40 AM | #8 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,303
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The only way liberalism causes danger to the populace is when aggressive, angry right wingers do the killing.
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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31st July 2019, 02:20 AM | #9 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,092
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For as long as I've been seeing right-wing propaganda, a recurring theme is that all our social problems are really caused by liberals, and the only solution offered is to vote against liberals so we can go back to ignoring social problems.
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31st July 2019, 02:26 AM | #10 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
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https://twitter.com/hila_tweets/stat...80415566618624
Quote:
https://twitter.com/hila_tweets/stat...81670930223106
Quote:
Quote:
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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31st July 2019, 03:05 AM | #11 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Location: Nelson, New Zealand
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I'm really interested in hearing from the right-wing Trump apologists on this forum as to whether they think its a good idea to give nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia, when
1. Fifteen of the nineteen 9/11 hijackers were Saudi Arabian 2. The leader of Saudi Arabia instigated and then sanctioned the brutal murder of a US journalist. 3. Freedom House, a US based, US government-funded advocate for free speech and human rights, consistently ranks Saudi Arabia as the "worst of the worst", below North Korea, in their annual survey of political and civil rights. Bolton call's Iran a bad actor in the region, but the Saudis are far, far worse. Seriously? Trump wants to give these scumbags nuclear technology that could easily be weaponised? |
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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31st July 2019, 04:31 AM | #12 |
Philosopher
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Location: Sweden
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If trump wasn't a little bit racist, but just a little bit hostile and prejudiced towards poor people, he'd be tweeting about worthless white people too. I'm talking about the kind of trailer trash and poor redneck scum that live in the middle of nowhere with no jobs and complain all day of how horrible life is, in between shooting up heroin and getting drunk.
Should they stop holding America back and contribute to "making it great again"? |
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We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann |
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31st July 2019, 04:43 AM | #13 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 22,789
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Correlation is not causation. You don't even have a lot of data points to say something is correlated. You also dont say what has happened to all the other cities.
Utah had a record high for murder in 2016. They had a 20% jump. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.des...et-in-2016.amp |
31st July 2019, 04:50 AM | #14 |
Fiend God
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Location: In a post-fact world
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31st July 2019, 04:51 AM | #15 |
Fiend God
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31st July 2019, 05:13 AM | #16 |
... and your little dog too.
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Posts: 16,361
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I googled "Late Obama Age collapse".
I want everyone to brace themselves because this may come as a shock: It's from the title of a book written by a white supremacist. |
31st July 2019, 05:24 AM | #17 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 14,423
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Conservative "thinkers" seem to be mainly white supremacists nowadays. Well, "conservative" should probably be in scare-quotes as well. Reactionary is the proper word. For this guy and for the whole GOP. I don't find it particularly strange that the OP gets his information from white supremacist sources.
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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31st July 2019, 05:32 AM | #18 |
Graduate Poster
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31st July 2019, 05:37 AM | #19 |
Penultimate Amazing
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31st July 2019, 05:38 AM | #20 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Posts: 13,384
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Grammatically, the addition would modified "has been dubbed" not the source of the murders. This is also what was undoubtedly intended, that only white nationalists call the increase "The Late Obama Age Collapse" and the other things.
Now, my beef with the term "The Late Obama Age Collapse" isn't just about where the blame lies. It's an abuse of the term "age". Since when is eight years an age, dammit? (Yes, yes, eight years is an age of third graders, but you know what I mean.) |
31st July 2019, 05:41 AM | #21 |
Graduate Poster
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31st July 2019, 05:42 AM | #22 |
I lost an avatar bet.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 28,781
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Subverts. What the heck are you talking about?
Quote:
Quote:
We call people racist for labeling it the “Black Lives Matter effect.” We do that because Post hoc ergo propter hoc or as BobTheCoward already pointed out correlation is not causation.
Quote:
President Trump gets folks at his rally to chant “send them back” and those folks are not called the outrage mob, instead the left is the outrage mob because rhey are dissatisfied with unarmed black men being killed at a much higher rate than unarmed white men (when put into a per capital basis).
Quote:
The other problem with your aphorism is that wages implies that work was performed and we all know that liberals don’t perform labor. |
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I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly. |
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31st July 2019, 05:47 AM | #23 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 13,384
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If there were a strong correlation showing that after the Black Lives Matters movement, there were fewer arrests and less aggressive investigation of crimes, it wouldn't be racist to point that out. It wouldn't directly mean that the movement was to blame (it could be explained by police overreaction to criticism rather than the aims of the movement), of course.
But, of course, Tanabear did engage in nothing more than post hoc. A movement to decrease police shootings of unarmed men happened and murders increased. It's awfully hard to conclude that the former influenced, much less caused, the latter. How are the two connected? |
31st July 2019, 05:50 AM | #24 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Posts: 14,423
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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31st July 2019, 06:32 AM | #25 |
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 41,468
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Pretty good effort but could you throw in some fake ebonics? I love it when cauc breeders do that; it's just so damned funny!
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...6#post12770536 |
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Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. |
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31st July 2019, 06:34 AM | #26 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 21,398
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I remember a couple of years ago I read a comparison of Baltimore with Muskogee, OK. You know, the right wing town where that country singer was proud to be from?
Three guesses as to which came out looking worse.... |
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Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
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31st July 2019, 06:46 AM | #27 |
NWO Litter Technician
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I?
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US homicide rate 2017: 5.3.
Canada homicide rate 2017: 1.8. This leads me to conclude that the US is almost 3 times as liberal as Canada. |
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When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips
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31st July 2019, 07:06 AM | #28 |
NWO Kitty Wrangler
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Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd |
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31st July 2019, 07:08 AM | #29 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 35,043
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Right wingers have loved to throw urban crime statistics up as a smoke screen and have done so for decades. Since there aren't many Republican mayors of big cities, and even those that are Republican are not ultra-conservative, they can blame liberals for all the ills of urban life. It also has the benefit of allowing racial dog-whistling, if not open racism, because of large non-white populations, especially in cities with intensely impoverished, high-crime minority neighborhoods.
This same tactic used to include NYC, which was once the poster child of urban decay and a high-crime hellscape ruined by the libs and black people, but now its crime rates have fallen and it is a bustling hub and highly desirable place to live, despite being still run by libs and full of minorities. Conservatives aren't interested in actually understanding the complex problems of endemic poverty and crime in large cities, because they know they will never be in positions of power in such cities. Right-wing conservative ideology is so politically toxic in these cities that no ultra-conservative Republican will ever be elected, so they are content to snipe in bad faith. No credit is given to liberal run, diverse big cities that are doing well. |
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Previously known as SuburbanTurkey |
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31st July 2019, 07:14 AM | #30 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 53,184
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To be fair they don't care about endemic crime and poverty in rural america they just pretend it doesn't exist. I mean Rural areas are more violent than the national average as well.
https://thecrimereport.org/2018/05/1...e-u-s-average/ But railing against the murder rate in rural west virginia fails to properly racially dog whistle for people so we ignore it. |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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31st July 2019, 01:15 PM | #31 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
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Why do white supremacists even care about blacks killing blacks? You'd be forgiven for thinking that they would consider that to be a job being done for them, but there is only one reason I can think of that they would bring it up, and that's because murder statistics make good reading for them, and they can use those statistics to their advantage.
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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31st July 2019, 01:17 PM | #32 |
Orthogonal Vector
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Posts: 53,184
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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31st July 2019, 01:19 PM | #33 |
Philosopher
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Don't fear the REAPER, embrace it |
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31st July 2019, 01:23 PM | #34 |
... and your little dog too.
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31st July 2019, 01:25 PM | #35 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
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WTF! Who takes over and subverts Law Enforcement?
There is only one person doing all of the subversion of Law Enforcement, and he ain't a Liberal. |
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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31st July 2019, 01:26 PM | #36 |
Merchant of Doom
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History does not always repeat itself. Sometimes it just yells "Can't you remember anything I told you?" and lets fly with a club. - John w. Campbell |
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31st July 2019, 01:28 PM | #37 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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31st July 2019, 01:41 PM | #38 |
... and your little dog too.
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31st July 2019, 01:51 PM | #39 |
Philosopher
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We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann |
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31st July 2019, 02:38 PM | #40 |
Philosopher
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