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6th May 2020, 03:38 PM | #81 |
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6th May 2020, 03:40 PM | #82 |
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Have you actually seen the video? It sounds like you haven't, and are going by text.
That was not dashcam, for instance. It is pretty clearly someone fumbling with a phone. And before the rednecks are in view. They knew something was up around the corner. And said not a word when it happened. And how many people do you count in that truck? |
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6th May 2020, 03:41 PM | #83 |
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6th May 2020, 03:45 PM | #84 |
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What are the best vids available now? I hope to be able to view them some time this evening (saving cell data).
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6th May 2020, 03:51 PM | #85 |
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Cornered him? In the middle of the street, outdoors, in broad daylight, with no visible fences, obstructions or other barricades in most any direction? Confronted? Yes. Cornered? Hard to see how. Sorry. Lots of other directions to go. He could have turned and ran any other direction, including the way he came. Although it's possible he thought camera car was with the rednecks. Still he could have taken off between houses where the truck would have trouble pursuing.
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6th May 2020, 03:53 PM | #86 |
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6th May 2020, 03:54 PM | #87 |
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And?
ARBURY WAS UNARMED! ARBURY WAS A KNOWN JOGGER WHO HAD JOGGED THAT SAME ROUTE FOR YEARS! He was JOGGING, not running away, not charging towards them. He was JOGGING at a rate that would have made him easy to catch for anyone who wasn't a fat, white, good-ol-boy, tub of lard with a gun! FFS, did you actually watch the video? Do you really have to create harebrained stupid scenarios in order to make excuses for these rednecks Very few. In most cases, at least on this forum, when a video is shown of a cold blooded murder, it turned out to be a cold blooded murder. |
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6th May 2020, 03:55 PM | #88 |
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My understanding is that the person taking the video was in cahoots with the two men in the pickup and was pursuing the jogger. The jogger is trapped and surrounded.
As the jogger approaches the pickup he veers to the right, apparently trying to avoid the man in the middle of the street with a shotgun. The shotgun toter moves across the front of the truck to confront the jogger. I can't see the confrontation but the gun goes off immediately |
6th May 2020, 03:55 PM | #89 |
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The striking thing from a non-US basis is that shooting someone dead would not be subject to a trial. Any defence to killing someone should be presented at a trial. The default should be a trial. Only under the most exceptional circumstances should killing someone not be subjected to judicial review. Stand your ground etc. may be a defence to homicide but such a serious outcome should never be subject to an occult decision by police or prosecution authorities, even a grand jury since it is secret is not appropriate. If you kill someone even if it is justified the consequence should be a trial when you can justify the killing.
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6th May 2020, 03:56 PM | #90 |
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6th May 2020, 04:02 PM | #91 |
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6th May 2020, 04:03 PM | #92 |
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6th May 2020, 04:03 PM | #93 |
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6th May 2020, 04:04 PM | #94 |
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6th May 2020, 04:08 PM | #95 |
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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6th May 2020, 04:12 PM | #96 |
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6th May 2020, 04:13 PM | #97 |
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Raism fascinates me. The way people distort their thinking to give the appearance of 'right thinking'. The way a poster will refuse to question anything that conflicts with a narrative.
So yeah, I poke the bear a little. You learn a lot about people in touchy subjects. Look how many posters are already lying through their teeth, acting like I am advocating this, when I openly gave it to JM at his specific request for a hypothetical with filled in details. People have a hard time keeping their masks on when you touch a nerve. |
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6th May 2020, 04:23 PM | #98 |
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My first post was a way of making fun of Bogative's response, because although we don't know a great many things, I think we know enough to draw some very easy conclusions, and although I am not a lawyer, I think I understand the basic legal questions here.
What we see on the video is that the men in/near the pickup truck were behaving in a threatening manner toward the jogger (by deliberately blocking his way.) It also appears that part of their threatening manner was display of and possibly pointing a weapon at the jogger. I say "appears" because I didn't watch the video frame by frame to be absolutely certain that the driver was threatening the jogger with the gun, but it sure seemed that way. At that point, a reasonable person in the jogger's position would believe that he was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm, and that escape from that situation was impossible. (i.e. you can't run away from a bullet, and the fact that they deliberately blocked his path would be perceived by a reasonable person as an aggressive act. A reasonable person would fear being shot in the back.) In doing this, the men in the pickup truck have committed a crime. You can't go around pointing guns at people. You just can't. In some states, there's an exception if you happen to be in your house and he's breaking in, and in all states there's an exception if you are under a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm, but there is no way any of those circumstances applied to the pickup truck people in this video. It's illegal to go pointing guns at people. Someone could get hurt. So, the jogger's action, attempting to wrest the gun away from the driver, is justified. Preceiving himself to be under a threat of death or great bodily harm, he is justified in taking action to neutralize that threat, which he did, unsuccessfully. Now, as a matter of principle, I must say that everyone is entitled to a fair trial, and even to the presumption of innocence, so we must remain open to the theoretical possibility that some future evidence will be presented that makes it clear that there was some extremely important but currently unknown (to us) piece of evidence that would put a completely different spin on what appears to have happened. However, based on preliminary evidence, it seems these guys are guilty as sin. I suspect both of them, not just the man with the shotgun, because I think both of them brandished weapons. I would have to watch the video again to be sure about the guy in the bed of the truck, but I think he did. Prosecutors and/or juries will have to decide exactly what charges will be filed and what the convictions will be, but if it isn't something, I will be very surprised, and the people of Georgia will be very angry. |
6th May 2020, 04:29 PM | #99 |
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d
https://www.fox23.com/news/trending/...AXW6DAYVRW6EQ/ The person in the car filming the video was allied with the two men in the pickup. Likely Arbery knew that. Does he turn around to look at the car while running? (I can't actually even find a clean version of the video today). Arbery couldn't turn around and run the other way. The two men in the pickup had stopped because they knew Arbery was being driven towards them. I don't know if it's possible he could have run off the road but if it isn't safe for him to jog on the public road does anyone really think he should have gone onto private property. |
6th May 2020, 04:29 PM | #100 |
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Just to repeat, we have the suggestion that an unarmed black person out for a jog who gets chased by white guys with shotguns in a pickup deserves to get shot if he doesn't surrender to them.
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6th May 2020, 04:33 PM | #101 |
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6th May 2020, 04:36 PM | #102 |
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6th May 2020, 04:37 PM | #103 |
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6th May 2020, 05:02 PM | #104 |
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Cletus and Bubba pull out a shotgun, try to stop a black jogger in the street and kill him, and this is just fine with Georgia Law Enforcement?
I promise you, if it was DeShawn and Jamal who pulled out a shotgun and tried to stop a white jogger in the street and killed him, both of their black arses would already have been tried, found guilty and be sitting on death row. |
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6th May 2020, 05:05 PM | #105 |
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6th May 2020, 05:08 PM | #106 |
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Nope.
From the video, it is clear that he runs around the truck as though it is just another he encounters on his daily run, only to be confronted almost face-to-face with someone obstructing his progress and pointing a shotgun at him. This would be the first intimation he had of any problems. Since he is already traveling quickly, this would be a very sudden encounter, seeing a gun pointed at him from close range. It would be instinctive to try and push the gun away from him, to stop it being aimed at him. Once he has hold of the gun, he is not simply going to let go and risk being fired at. The struggle ensues and he tries to keep it pointed away. Two shots are fired during that time. Maybe one or both hit him. He turns to escape and the third shot is fired (from the second shooter in the truck who has a Magnum pistol), killing him. I suspect the "camera car" was in league with the two in the truck. Which says to me this was a deliberate setup. They were looking for Arbery because they knew where he ran every day. They had been staking him out. But either what they didn't expect was going to be a cold-blooded murder, or they wanted a snuff movie of this kill. Either way, it is murder, they were real dumb enough to let the video get into the public domain, and they should be in jail for life. |
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6th May 2020, 05:15 PM | #107 |
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I agree with your conclusion but
1) He doesn't seem to be running around the truck like it's an everyday occurrence. He sees the guy with the gun in the middle of the road and runs to the other side of the truck. 2) In the video I saw yesterday you can't see the initial confrontation but th e gun goes off immediately. 3) the 'camera car' was driven by a man named William Bryan and he was in leage with the two in the truck. |
6th May 2020, 05:21 PM | #108 |
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6th May 2020, 05:22 PM | #109 |
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6th May 2020, 05:22 PM | #110 |
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I would have to watch the video again, which I'm not going to do right at the moment, but I would agree. I noticed his gait at the time he approached the truck did not seem to be a jogger's gait. He appeared to rapidly run to the right side of the truck, with a sudden change of direction and high step.
At least, that's what I thought as I watched the video. |
6th May 2020, 05:29 PM | #111 |
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Whenever I am being chased by one car towards two armed men in a pickup, one of whom is clearly moving towards me with a shotgun my first thought is always 'these people must have the best of intentions but I need to do everything humanly possible to avoid contact......'
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6th May 2020, 05:31 PM | #112 |
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6th May 2020, 05:36 PM | #113 |
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The highlited is not correct. The third shot is from the shotgun, it can be seen all too clearly in the video. I have to ask if someone here knows enough about shotguns, is there such a thing as a "semi-automatic" shotgun? I've always thought you had to engage some kind of action to ready the next shell, yet this one seems to let three rounds in a row go in a struggle. I'd rather not go back and rewatch this again. The part that's truly disturbing to me is the calm, nonchalant way the shooter steps away afterward. Yeah, these guys need to go to jail forever.
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6th May 2020, 05:49 PM | #114 |
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6th May 2020, 07:06 PM | #115 |
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Yep, just as expected, a complete and utter **** show here at the ISF – entertaining, but still a **** show.
On display is the normal prejudice, bigotry and racism towards southern white men. Lack of reading comprehension or the normal laziness of not bothering to read the links provided. Accusing the DA of being part of the good ole boys club because he did not arrest two white guys for shooting a black guy just because they were white and the victim was black. Accusations of the three men involved intentionally setting up an ambush so they can shoot a black guy. "****** hunting" as another poster describes it. That just points out a small portion of the absurdities in this thread. The saddest part is how many people here actually believe this all started because some black guy was jogging down the street. For those who are too lazy to read links provided in this thread, here's how it actually started:
Quote:
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6th May 2020, 07:31 PM | #116 |
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6th May 2020, 07:42 PM | #117 |
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Let me begin by saying where we agree, and this time this isn't the sort of "trick opening" that I used in my first post. I agree that this thread has shown a lot or prejudice against white, southern, men, and that there is a lot of speculation on things that are not in evidence.
However, even after dismissing all of that speculation, there is the evidence that is before our eyes, and that evidence is quite damning. If you use a gun to threaten someone, then two things happen. 1) You have committed a crime. There are some narrow exceptions, but those narrow exceptions clearly are not present in this case. For example, believing, rightly or wrongly, that the person you are threatening has recently committed a crime, is not an allowed exception. 2) You have created a reasonable fear that the person you are threatening is in danger of death or extreme bodily harm, which creates a right of self defense. There's no such thing as "mutual self defense" in the eyes of the law. If I attack someone, and they defend themselves, I don't gain a right to shoot them and claim self defense. Whatever happens, such as the death of the person I attacked, or of a bystander is a consequence of my attack, and I am considered culpable, even if I didn't actually dkill the person myself. (e. g. a famous case involved person A committing an armed robbery. Person B, a witness to the robbery, attempted to shoot person A. Person B missed, and the bullet struck person C, killing her. Person A was convicted of murdering person C, and the conviction was upheld.) So, the only possible defense that the men in the pickup could try to mount would be that they did not actually threaten the jogger. Based on what we see in the video, that strikes me as a rather outlandish claim. I'll leave it to the officials in Georgia to determine exactly what crime has been committed, but there has been a crime, and someone ended up dead as a result of the crime. That's usually rather rough for the defendants. As noted before, we shouldn't rush to judgement as such. They get their day in court to explain why it made perfect sense for them to block the path of a man while brandishing a shotgun, and that it wasn't really assault to do so, but I'm pretty sure that if their lawyer is worth what he is being paid, he'll try to plea bargain it away from murder. In order to have a prayer of that succeeding, they better have some really good evidence that the guy was actually a criminal of some sort, and his crime was more serious than trespassing. |
6th May 2020, 07:43 PM | #118 |
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6th May 2020, 07:52 PM | #119 |
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I have noticed an interesting kind of apologetics for patently **** and or dumb behaviour lately. Saw it with Trump’s disinfectant comments where the most hyperbolic or pedantically literal interpretations of the event are attacked ferociously and the clear facts of the case ignored. We see it here too. Absolutely bad takes should be held to account but I am taking issue with a dishonest propaganda game.
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6th May 2020, 09:03 PM | #120 |
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