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7th May 2020, 05:35 AM | #161 |
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7th May 2020, 05:47 AM | #162 |
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7th May 2020, 06:00 AM | #163 |
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7th May 2020, 06:03 AM | #164 |
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There's an obscure Monty Python sketch from one of their later seasons where a bunch of 19th century poets are meeting with the Prince but they end up insulting him several times, but then try to get one of the other poets to explain how the insult is actually praise, until one of them calls the Prince being like a Dose of the Clap and the final poet just gives up. This is what comes to mind when I see these increasingly pathetic justifications for outright lynching and horrid decisions by the President.
http://www.montypython.net/scripts/oscar.php |
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7th May 2020, 06:03 AM | #165 |
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Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
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7th May 2020, 06:36 AM | #166 |
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7th May 2020, 06:42 AM | #167 |
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I'm pretty sure their lawyers will advise against bringing that up in court, because it is utterly irrelevant to anything except their state of mind, but their state of mind won't justify their actions in the eyes of the law.
They threatened the jogger with a gun. That is illegal except under certain narrow conditions, none of which existed during the confrontation. That makes them criminals. Generally, when someone commits a crime, and, during commission of the crime a person end up dead, the criminal is held culpable for the death. Unless they can convince the prosecutor or the jury that they didn't actually threaten the jogger, they don't have a legal leg to stand on. |
7th May 2020, 06:48 AM | #168 |
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You are correct, although correct with an asterisk.
It is indeed perfectly legal to walk around an awful lot of parts of the USA with a loaded shotgun. It ceases being legal if you use that shotgun to threaten someone. The specific crime involved is named differently in some jurisdictions, but the common name for it is "assault with a deadly weapon". (The crime of assault occurs when a person is threatened, not when a person is attacked.) Generally, if you "accost" someone, and during the course of accosting them you display a weapon, prosecutors and juries will consider it a threat, even if the gun is not specifically pointed in their direction. |
7th May 2020, 06:49 AM | #169 |
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7th May 2020, 07:04 AM | #170 |
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The concept of brandishing is well understood in the criminal system, even in states where open carry is legal. Intimidating someone through the display of a weapon is understood as an assault, like you say.
Brandishing includes a variety of behaviors short of actually pointing a gun at someone. Actions that a reasonable person would understand as a intimidating display of a weapon is considered brandishing. Something like simply moving a hand to the butt of a holstered pistol, or, I dunno, demanding someone to stop while holding a shotgun at the ready, is well understood to be a brandishing of weapons. Setting up a roadblock for the sole purpose of confronting him while openly armed is something the DA totally elides in his explanation of not bringing charges. He frames it as inexplicable event that Arbery might attack the armed man, not mentioning that this was the second time that they had attempted to block Arbery with their truck and stop him. Shotgun man got out because the first time, Arbery kept running. The police report, by the words of the killers themselves, is quite clear that they forced this confrontation. https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthel...mized/full.pdf |
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7th May 2020, 07:39 AM | #171 |
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7th May 2020, 07:44 AM | #172 |
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7th May 2020, 07:47 AM | #173 |
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Youtube link to the video.
It's hard to tell, but playing it back at 0.25x speed, it appears that McMichael takes aim at Arbery as he's running down the road, before Arbery veers off the road and before they get into the scuffle. Starting around 6 seconds mark. That takes the instigation of violence well before Arbery charges and might explain why Arbery would suddenly change course into the shoulder, and why he might feel the need to fight in the following moments. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIve50vSeLQ This frame looks like a man with the shotgun raised to me. It's too grainy to see the gun, but his arms seem to be holding something in a firing stance. Arberry is still several yards away and is jogging down the middle of the road. https://youtu.be/fIve50vSeLQ?t=7 |
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7th May 2020, 07:55 AM | #174 |
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Again either you try to sell some insane idea that the guy had some legal/moral/logical responsibility to surrender himself to the armed civilians, admit that this just straight up murder (without pointless "okay but first we have to define the exact kind of murder" for no reason that matters), or start writing insane fan fiction to create alternative universes to justify it.
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7th May 2020, 07:55 AM | #175 |
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7th May 2020, 07:57 AM | #176 |
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It may require login for age verification.
It's embedded in this article and is still working for me without logging in, this might work. https://www.gpbnews.org/post/leaked-...tional-outrage This shows him being shot, so be warned. Edit. Turned the res up. You can see him raising the shotgun to the shoulder at 7 seconds, well before Arbery veers off the road. Arbery veers off the road and the camera man loses the frame, likely because he is down range of a raised shotgun. Arbery attacking him after this did not start the violent encounter, because the man was aiming a shotgun at him immediately prior. Unambiguous. |
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7th May 2020, 08:02 AM | #177 |
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7th May 2020, 08:05 AM | #178 |
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And I will say it again: white guys armed with shotguns chasing him in a pickup.
In what world is that NOT a threat? They weren't police, he wasn't committing a crime so they weren't stopping anything, they were chasing a black guy who was out jogging with shotguns. In Georgia. And he is supposed to just surrender? Yeah, right. |
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Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
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7th May 2020, 08:08 AM | #179 |
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Okay, here's a question I'm going to love watching the apologist twist and turn their fan fiction in on itself to explain.
How were most lynching not just simple "citizens arrests gone bad" by the arguments being put forth in this thread? |
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7th May 2020, 08:09 AM | #180 |
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7th May 2020, 08:11 AM | #181 |
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It's easier to tell if you watch the video, you can see the glare frame by frame, but McMichael raises the shotgun on Arbery as he's jogging down the road. Arbery then veers off the road and the camera man loses the frame (likely because he is in the line of fire) Arbery was still jogging at a medium pace at this point, and looks to be at least 10-15 yards behind the truck. The DA's characterization of Arbery initiating force at the front of the truck is a total fiction. Even in open carry backwaters like GA, aiming a shotgun at someone is well understood to be an assault. |
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7th May 2020, 08:14 AM | #182 |
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7th May 2020, 08:15 AM | #183 |
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Now the fun part is watching how elaborate the apologist's fan fiction is gonna have to get so they can keep saying that without directly saying it.
Because yeah there's no way to square that circle. Either this is outright murder or you're arguing the guy should have surrendered. |
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7th May 2020, 08:18 AM | #184 |
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harder to say. Later in the video it seems like he is holding a phone to his head with on hand and fumbling with the pistol in another.
The video may be too grainy to clearly see the pistol. I can just barely pick out the shotgun barrel, and only because it makes an obvious arc as McMichaels takes aim at Arbery. |
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7th May 2020, 08:19 AM | #185 |
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I don't think the moral compass here points anywhere near a hairsplit between "He had one gun pointed at him" and "He had two guns pointed at him."
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7th May 2020, 08:23 AM | #186 |
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7th May 2020, 08:24 AM | #187 |
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7th May 2020, 08:27 AM | #188 |
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My impression is that most lynchings involved taking someone who had already been arrested from the jail to kill them. But that's neither here nor there, really.
The sad, frustrating part about this is that I think they'll get off. Why? Because he fought back. At trial the defense will just make the argument that the shooter was in fear for his life at the moment he shot the guy - which was probably true. That's all they have to do. Get one member of the jury to buy into it - one out of twelve in an area with plenty of racists who pine for the old days. The rest of it just won't matter once a lawyer starts to argue before a jury. The lawyer will say something along the lines of: "They were fighting over a gun - what was my client supposed to do, just let the man he was fighting with have the gun?" The lawyer will just hit on that, over and over. They'll just confuse and obfuscate over how the fight actually got started, and focus on the fight itself. It sickens me, but I think they'll get off. |
7th May 2020, 08:29 AM | #189 |
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7th May 2020, 08:30 AM | #190 |
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Oh yes, the argument is that he should have surrendered, and because he didn't, he was killed. Because, hey, he was just asking for it.
Seriously, the argument is that a black jogger getting chased by white guys with shotguns should just surrender to them. It's almost like they are the authority and he is just a ******. |
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Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
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7th May 2020, 08:30 AM | #191 |
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Gotta admit, this is entertaining as hell. A veritable army of scarerows ITT.
No one on the thread is saying this is Arbery's fault. Is that in dispute? No one is saying that he should have surrendered to a citizens arrest. Got that, kids? No one is saying that the hillbilly bigots had any legal , moral, ethical, etc justification for their actions. Clear enough? The only peripheral issue is, as Suburban Turkey and MeadMaker point out, a tactical one. Arbery took a run at a truck full of armed crazy rednecks. That will get a brother killed right pronto, I hear. One guy at close range...maybe try to control the gun if unarmed. Multiple guys though? No way. You're going to lose, damn near guaranteed. Can you guys walk me through your pearl clutching to say what part of that is so offensive? |
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7th May 2020, 08:33 AM | #192 |
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7th May 2020, 08:33 AM | #193 |
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Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
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7th May 2020, 08:34 AM | #194 |
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It would be a lot easier to get a conviction with a raised gun, although the very fact that he retrieved the gun before following the jogger might be enough.
Generally, following someone in a car wouldn't be considered a crime. Blocking their path by using a car may very well be, although it would be easier to convict the driver than a passenger. It's all about what you can convince a jury. If I believe, even mistakenly, that a person is a suspect in a burglary, no jury in the world would convict me for making a 9-1-1 call and then following the guy until the police showed up. If I attempt to detain the guy by blocking his path with my truck, then I'm more likely to be convicted. If I point a gun at him, then the chance of my being convicted goes way, way, up. |
7th May 2020, 08:39 AM | #195 |
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7th May 2020, 08:39 AM | #196 |
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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7th May 2020, 08:42 AM | #197 |
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Yes it is. 100%.
Everytime a black person is killed by a white person the black person's action must be analyzed and nitpicked to death and back. You have been 100% consistent on that. Oh you're just doing a "tactical analysis" because "he took on a truck of armed rednecks." Do you even hear yourself? They ran him down on foot while they were in a vehicle. What was he supposed to do sprout goddamn wings and fly away? |
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7th May 2020, 08:49 AM | #198 |
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7th May 2020, 08:56 AM | #199 |
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7th May 2020, 08:58 AM | #200 |
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You're a liar. Never once.
Most recently, on Guyger: I called her an indisputable Murder2. No fault for Botham Jean at all, even any microscopic triviality. You had me confused with another poster there, but that's another dumbassery. On the Welfare Check thread, same. The cop murdered her. I don't even recall arguing any other black person killed by a white one. You're a liar.
Quote:
You seriously think the tactical move is to rush them? Virtually guaranteed death. That does not mean it is even a little tiny bit his fault. It was not. Even if he was a burglar or whatever, it DOES NOT MATTER. Rednecks can't be roadside executioners in any scenario short of an active shooting or the like, full stop. Are there smaller words I can use for you? |
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