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7th July 2021, 08:35 AM | #41 |
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7th July 2021, 08:37 AM | #42 |
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I wouldn't kill someone over a TV, although were I able, I might attempt to stop them if they were clearly stealing stuff. However, if I don't know their intentions, I wouldn't take the chance. They are in the process of committing a crime and thus don't get the benefit of the doubt.
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7th July 2021, 08:39 AM | #43 |
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I wouldn't kill anyone over the (non-living stuff) in my house. I would still (if circumstances warranted, massive amounts of nuance, all that aside) kill someone for being in my house (uninvited, as an intruder, refusing to leave, etc) because I feel that particular act is inherently threatening.
None of this has anything to do with Arbery, even as "thought experiment." It's just more racists murder apologetics. |
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7th July 2021, 08:41 AM | #44 |
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Yeah, sorry for being led into this. Again.
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7th July 2021, 11:22 PM | #45 |
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8th July 2021, 04:47 AM | #46 |
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8th July 2021, 05:26 AM | #47 |
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8th July 2021, 05:31 AM | #48 |
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I really is shocking the half-assed, self serving lies these murderers told and were accepted at face value by the local DA. I know they have already lost their election and are out of office, but what a truly ghastly example of either corruption or incompetence. It's a real injustice that there's no criminal liability for this obvious dereliction of duty.
The lynch mob's story is going to absolutely collapse during trial. Even the mildest bit of prodding reveals the massive legal holes in their argument and makes it plain that their actions were blatantly criminal. Prosecutors are going into this trial on easy mode. Maybe surprise isn't the right word, because we all know how terrible the justice system is in this country, but it still shocks the conscience to see a daylight murder getting pencil-whipped away as "self-defense" like this. They were so very close to getting away with it. If these freaks could have used a bit of restraint and stopped bragging about their snuff film, they would be free men. |
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8th July 2021, 06:13 AM | #49 |
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Little Law
Just to add a little law on why it is so hard to charge homeowners in the U.S.:
Not only do you have to prove the underlying crime, be it murder or some type of assault beyond a reasonable doubt, you must disprove self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. Some jurisdictions left it to the defendant to prove beyond a preponderance of evidence standard that the act was committed in self-defense, but this was ruled as impermissible burden shifting and therefore the prosecution must now prove the crime and disprove self-defense. In my jurisdiction "homicide" consists of: - Murder in the 1st Degree (requires specific intent to kill, intent can be formed in a second) - Murder in the Second Degree (aka, felony killing, a killing committed in the course of committing a crime) - Murder in the 3rd Degree (all other forms of murder, does not require specific intent to kill, but actor acts with depraved heart without regard for human life) - Voluntary manslaughter (heat of passion, imperfect self-defense) - Involuntary manslaughter (doing an act in a grossly negligent or reckless manner) Self-Defense contains a subjective and objective element. The actor himself must believe himself to be in fear of death or serious bodily injury AND that belief must be reasonable given the circumstances. Many states have codified the 'castle doctrine' which in variations state that a "burglar" or someone who has broken into a home, has done so with 'evil' intent, i.e., it is assumed for the purpose of the law that the individual standing in your home means you harm. Further, you have no duty to retreat, it is your home. Some states have further codified the 'stand your ground' doctrine, which more or less states that if you are in public doing a lawful act you have no duty to retreat even if you have the means and opportunity to do so. Combine ALL this, and it makes it extremely difficult to prosecute except in the most outrageous cases and then usually all you get is voluntary manslaughter. Caveat: While I am an expert in my jurisdiction, your mileage may vary. |
8th July 2021, 06:25 AM | #50 |
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Arbury was gunned down in the street and the property the murders claimed they where protecting wasn't even theirs to begin with.
Why is everyone trying to bring castle defense into this? |
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8th July 2021, 06:34 AM | #51 |
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Your keen insight into human nature is surely unbounded. Here I was thinking I could slip my racist murder apologetics past you, and while that might have worked with a few of the lesser mortals who populate this place, I forgot that JowMorgue was here and would surely call me out for what it is.
I have met my match, and surely there is no point in attempting to further deceive you with phony explanations. I bow to your greater knowledge. |
8th July 2021, 06:37 AM | #52 |
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8th July 2021, 06:51 AM | #53 |
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8th July 2021, 07:12 AM | #54 |
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8th July 2021, 07:14 AM | #55 |
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I don't think Meadmaker's post was apologetic, but I don't think it was a relevant example, nor was it a hypothetical.
Perhaps Mead is willing to clarify what it was supposed to help with in this thread. |
8th July 2021, 07:59 AM | #56 |
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Dude, you're impossible.
You claimed that you would "threaten robbers with a gun". The word you used was in fact THREATEN. While it is a generalization on my part, it's a statutory one. Saying you intend to threaten someone with a gun in my State (NJ USA) falls somewhere on the brandishing/aggravated assault spectrum. I thought it was interesting that other countries would condone this, assuming you are not advocating criminality. You respond with a couple counter examples from unrelated states, for whatever reason. Now you expect me to dig up a couple anecdotes for you, when I was talking about the legality of the action, not the conviction rate. Btw, here in NJ we laugh about how liberal other states are in their treatment of firearms. I believe we have literally the most restrictive in the nation. |
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8th July 2021, 08:51 AM | #57 |
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California takes that cake, but you guys are definitely in the top 5.
I am genuinely interested to see if the Arbery's are going to stick with self-defense or change it up. The self-defense is going to be tough to stick with in this case, and given they weren't on any of their own property then I'm not sure what they were defending. |
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8th July 2021, 08:55 AM | #58 |
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8th July 2021, 08:55 AM | #59 |
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8th July 2021, 10:01 AM | #60 |
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Jersey has no carry at all, open or concealed of any firearms, and here even a hardware store BB gun is considered a long gun and is regulated like an AR -15. Cali, Mass, and the other notoriously tough states, IIRC, allow some forms of carry. I guess it depends on what parts you consider the most restrictive.
Quote:
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8th July 2021, 10:20 AM | #61 |
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Much appreciated. I should have been more diligent, was typing what I was reading at the time.
As we saw with the George Floyd case, it's possible that the defendants are trying to plead out but they're waiting for Federal buy-in. If the plea doesn't coincide with the feds then the feds can get them on hate crimes too. Chauvin is facing that in real-time and I'd think the McMicheal's realize that. The wheels move slow, but I'd be shocked if there wasn't some sort of, at the very least, realistic attempt at a plea before the trial. Then again, the prosecutors and Feds could be going for the head too. Punish them severely to make an example out of them. Ironic considering how black people have been treated in our justice system throughout the years. Yeah, as I've been saying in the Rittenhouse thread, it's really tough to claim self-defense when you initiate the confrontation. |
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8th July 2021, 10:23 AM | #62 |
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8th July 2021, 10:26 AM | #63 |
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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8th July 2021, 10:33 AM | #64 |
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I dont think that's really going to be relevant. It's probably in their best interests to try to paint the murder as a single, charged encounter at the side of the road, but the totality of the facts already establishes that the lynch squad was engaged in lawless aggression well before McMichael stepped out of his truck.
The physical evidence is quite clear that the three men assaulted Arbery with their trucks and were engaged in a coordinated, felonious attempt of unlawfully imprison or otherwise assault him. I suspect it's going to be very easy for the prosecutors to establish the fact that they were unlawful aggressors well before the fatal moment seen on the widely circulated video. |
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8th July 2021, 10:45 AM | #65 |
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I mean, not really. Everything changed when Arbery tried to flee. Once he was leaving the neighborhood I can't imagine seeing it as "protecting their community" when the video shows them taking active steps to prohibit his escape. There was nobody threatened at all, anywhere. There couldn't have been and since Ahmed had nothing in his hands there was no way he stole anything.
You're right in that it's not completely crazy, but any defense attorney worth his weight in used toilet paper would tell them what their chances are with that defense. Maybe if Ahmed was just coming out of the house. It's the chase that changes everything imo. |
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8th July 2021, 10:53 AM | #66 |
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2nd September 2021, 10:58 PM | #67 | |||
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Georgia DA Jackie Johnson has been indicted
The Georgia prosecutor who failed to properly investigate the murder of Arbery has now been indicted for obstructing law enforcement and failing to uphold her oath of office.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...da-indictment/
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2nd September 2021, 11:59 PM | #68 |
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3rd September 2021, 12:41 AM | #69 |
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She was the Brunswick DA; the buck stopped with her. She was the first one who tried to cover it all up, and then she covered her arse by recusing herself. The next one to try to do a cover up was prosecutor George Barnhill, the Waycross DA, who said that the three [the McMichaels' and Bryant] had "solid first hand probable cause" to pursue Arbery, a "burglary suspect," and stop him. Then he recused himself and the case was handed to a third prosecutor, Thomas Durden, who was going to convene a Grand Jury before the GBI took over the case, and almost immediately arrested the McMichaels. I would say Barnhill will be in the gun as well at some point.
Had it not been for the "sheer genius" of those three rednecks who showed the video thinking it would justify their actions rather than display their culpability in murder, no-one would ever have known what these scumbag corrupt officials did. Makes me wonder how many other times the course of justice has been perverted because white officials swept the murder of a back man by white thugs under the carpet. |
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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3rd September 2021, 05:07 AM | #70 |
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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3rd September 2021, 05:26 AM | #71 |
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Prosecutors get wide discretion that is often unreviewable, but the obvious corruption in this case is beyond the pale.
Glad this turd is finally getting hammered. |
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3rd September 2021, 09:29 AM | #72 |
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5th September 2021, 07:46 PM | #73 |
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5th September 2021, 08:49 PM | #74 |
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Yes.
Corruption isn't always about money. It can be about lobbying, cronyism, nepotism, parochialism, patronage and influence peddling. In this case, I would say influence peddling might apply. Influence peddling: The practice of using one's authority, or influence with people in authority, to get favours or preferential treatment for another person, often but not always for money. Yes. Letting her friends, the white ex-cop and his son get away with a murder. |
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7th September 2021, 04:26 AM | #75 |
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I meant this in the more broad sense that smartcooky so aptly described. I have no reason to be believe that money changed hands, or that people even met in shady rooms to conspire, but rather that the DA used her authority in a way that was contrary to the purpose of her office. A DA using their broad authority to sweep murders under the rug is corruption. Whether the corruption in this case was motivated by a prior personal relationship, a racial prejudice, or undue deference to former cops and/or vigilantes is hard to say.
Authority comes with certain responsibilities, and egregious enough dereliction of that duty can, and should, be treated as criminal. |
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9th September 2021, 11:29 AM | #76 |
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Mugshot just dropped of this turd of a DA that got arrested trying to sweep a lynching under the rug.
Quote:
She seems unhappy. |
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9th September 2021, 11:33 AM | #77 |
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9th September 2021, 11:56 AM | #78 |
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9th September 2021, 01:29 PM | #79 |
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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15th September 2021, 09:32 AM | #80 |
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This one slipped past me, from Aug 31:
Quote:
Defense won't be allowed to smear murder victim for unrelated prior history of petty criminal conduct. |
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