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4th August 2021, 03:16 PM | #161 |
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There are plenty of professional offence-takers out there, and not a few of them operating right here in this thread. The pity (and shame) is that they don't appear to be offended by obvious racism anywhere near as much as they are offended by a fully-clothed husband and wife cuddling on a beach.
Pearl clutchers every last one of them. I see what you see. It takes a dirty mind to see those as dirty pictures. |
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4th August 2021, 03:34 PM | #162 |
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4th August 2021, 03:42 PM | #163 |
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I think a little context is appropriate, here.
We live in a country where in recent years: A teacher was called into the office every monday morning and asked to remove the bikini pictures from her body building competitions. https://people.com/celebrity/utah-te...-bikini-shots/ A teacher was fired for her side job as a bikini model. https://www.eonline.com/news/417466/...-modeling-pics A teacher was either harassed or fired because a selfie she sent to her then boyfriend (also a teacher) got out through no action of hers. (Lawsuit in progress there.) https://patch.com/new-york/shirley-m...topless-selfie Historically, teachers have had a moral code imposed on them. In the early 20th century, there were even rules as to how late they could be out at night, and when and in what manner they could court or be courted. Yes, that's a long time ago, but some of that expectation lingers on. My point is that, yes, there may be racism here. But it's not the obvious slam dunk you think it is when you put in the context of the expectations and limitations we place on how teachers lead their lives. It's ********, but a romantic picture for you and I could be judged by some as being too steamy for a teacher to post publicly. And, to be clear, no one here is saying that teachers should be held to that standard. It is just pointed out that they are. Which clouds the issue as to what the motivation behind being asked to take the picture down might be. Edited to add links. |
4th August 2021, 03:46 PM | #164 | ||
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OK...perhaps you would have preferred this...
It takes a seriously ****** up prude to see those as dirty/erotic/suggestive/sexy pictures. If you are seeing erotica in those pictures, then that is in your mind, and the problem lies with YOU, not the vast majority of others. Only ONE person complained, but literally thousands have supported him. That speaks volumes about the nature of those pictures! Nice try at a gotcha, but a total fail.
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4th August 2021, 03:47 PM | #165 |
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4th August 2021, 03:50 PM | #166 |
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Here's the thing, though. Nobody cares about these pictures. Well, except maybe that one parent from 2019. School boards just want peace and no controversy, so if a parent complains and they ask a teacher to remove some pics, and he willingly does, it's peace on earth for all. Dr Whitfeild can put his anniversary pics on his private feed, instead of the one he uses to publically discuss school matters. Seems fair. Does him and his wife on a Mexican beach really have anything to do with his work, that he uses the page for?
They are brought up now, as the OP article said, because he posted on his feed about the school business of his being attacked for pushing a 'white people are inherently racist' CRT teaching. That's why it's in our forum now. |
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4th August 2021, 03:59 PM | #167 |
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Sexy is not a bad thing. It's really weird how you keep tying finding a picture sexy to prudish depravity. It's kind of normal to find attractive people being intimate as sexy.
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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4th August 2021, 04:12 PM | #168 |
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4th August 2021, 05:43 PM | #169 |
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Defensive much?
Two points here, and I doubt you'll answer them, because you're now posting nonsense. Where is the "obvious racism" in the person who complained? To be "obvious" you will need to have some kind of evidence to back it, and you have none. You think that's what it is, despite your original position about the one photo being busted. The second point is who in this thread is offended by the pics? Scroll back and quote me the post where someone shows any sign of offence. Shoulda gone with the all-caps, might have had more impact. If you don't see a woman laying on a beach while her husband crawls between her legs as sexy, you're simply posting BS to support something you failed horribly at - insisting the complaint was race-based. Someone already made the point about hammers and nails. You're old enough to remember NZ's great virgin prude, Patricia Bartlett. Prudes often wield influence far beyond their rightful place. |
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4th August 2021, 06:02 PM | #170 |
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Why bother? |
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4th August 2021, 07:12 PM | #171 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCO-SBPTF5E
"Sexual" is in the eye of the beholder. The Photos - while clearly innocent- also seemed intended to advertise that the couple still enjoy ******* each other, something to be happy about on an anniversary. I feel private postings on social media should have no impact on employment under any circumstance- yet if they do, the somewhat erotic nature of the photos makes them fair game (in an unfair game) |
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4th August 2021, 07:25 PM | #172 |
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So, stating facts is defensive now? OK, got it!
Err he's black, she's white, they are married, in the most racist state in one of the most racist countries in the world, where laws making it illegal for a black man to marry a white woman still existed within living memory (1967), and you think racism is off the table? Well I see it as far more likely that this is racism than it is someone being a prude given the context stated above. Anyone who agrees they were inappropriate, and that the school district was right to ask they be taken down. Why would you agree with them if you were not offended? FTFY, and no, I don't. I also I don't see any of these photos as inappropriate to post on a PERSONAL* Facebook page. Furthermore, I don't see that it is anyone else's business but his and his wife's * All caps used as per your recommendation Patricia who? (seriously, I had never heard of her... I had to look her up and the photos don't ring any bells). |
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4th August 2021, 07:32 PM | #173 |
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Hold my beer....
The picture is offensive because it reinforces heteronormativity and patriarchy with the man in a dominant position above the woman and looking like he's about to masturbate inside her. The viewer is left wondering about the presence pf crystal clear consent and without that present there's bit of a rapey vibe going on. |
4th August 2021, 07:38 PM | #174 |
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I don't see anything terribly objectionable, then again we weren't allowed to have sleeveless shirts at my high school. And I acknowledge the need for educators and staff to maintain professionalism and all that. I just think the public outrage is way out of proportion to what he did. I can't find info on whether these photos were public or private (friends only view) but I assume the former if so many people saw it, and I think he should at most keep these between friends and family.
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4th August 2021, 08:06 PM | #175 |
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Me neither, but I can definitely see that some people would.
This is the same country a congresswoman was barred from the state congress for using the word "vagina". I'm not even going to mention the amazing number of women and girls who have been told to cover up or be removed from a plane/school in the same country. Then he should have set the page to private. |
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4th August 2021, 09:35 PM | #176 |
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4th August 2021, 10:44 PM | #177 |
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I'm not really sure it's accurate to say that Texas is the most racist state. Usually, my mind drifts to Misissippi, Alabama, Georgia or Louisiana for that.
I'm not even sure how you measure that, but I did a search and found lists that variously ranked West Virginia, Wisconsin, or Louisiana as the most racist. Regardless, I understand that enough things happen due to racism that if you assume that to be the cause you have a good chance of being correct. But that does not mean it is always the case. Never underestimate people's capacity to be dicks to each other for any reason. Or no reason at all. The fact that they are a mixed couple may be the triggering factor for the complainer. Or it might be that the pose was too suggestive for someone with a 1950s prudishness. Or it might be that their favored candidate for the job was passed over and they're using any stupid thing they can find to try to paint the hiring as the wrong choice.
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So you feel like racism is the most likely possibility. Others, given the context of the microscope educators are put through, might see the other as being the most likely. Everyone agrees that racism is a possibility. Can you accept that there is another possibility as well? Even while thinking it less likely?
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No one agrees that the school district was right to ask him to take them down. No one on this board was offended. You are arguing against positions that no one has expressed. To make it clear, the position I am seeing from Thermal is this:
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But again, I think everyone here agrees with you on this. So what are you arguing about again? This is not a discussion where one side thinks the pictures were OK and the other thinks they were inappropriate. That's not in dispute. The disagreement is the possible reason that some unknown person who is not participating in the discussion claimed to be offended. Racism is a likely possibility. But given that the contents of social media have been held against teachers, it is also a likely possibility that some idiot found the pictures too steamy for the public image of a principal. It's demonstrable that this happens. Noting this or explaining why it happens is not the same as agreeing with it. Another thing everyone agrees on: The person who complained is an *******. |
5th August 2021, 12:40 AM | #178 |
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https://www.tpr.org/texas/2021-03-21...20-report-says
Its one the absolute worst...being the second most, or third most racist out of 50 states is nothing to be proud of... |
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5th August 2021, 01:12 AM | #179 |
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5th August 2021, 06:20 AM | #180 |
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Ok, where is the picture you're describing? I want to see that picture. The one that you linked to shows no signs of "mounting". Her leg, again, is between his legs. with everyone fully clothed, including her in terrible denim. Now Thermal just offered to show me how sex works with his anatomical dolls, but maybe I shouldn't be the one he's offering that too.
I have 3 children. Just because I and my wife don't enjoy kissing, or cuddling doesn't mean I don't enjoy sex. Perhaps you're extremely confused on how those things aren't the same at all. Tell you what, take your dolls (super weird by the way), and do some youtubing. Perhaps someone on there can show you the difference. If what you do with your spouse is sit, fully clothed, with her leg between your legs and you refer to it as your "special hug", I feel like maybe I'm not the one lost here. Meh, GIGO |
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5th August 2021, 06:33 AM | #182 |
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"I'm going to analyze the body language in this picture of a white woman and black man to an absurd degree. BTW I'm not racist."
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5th August 2021, 06:35 AM | #183 |
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5th August 2021, 07:11 AM | #184 |
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5th August 2021, 08:00 AM | #185 |
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5th August 2021, 08:14 AM | #186 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Ok. With all the jabbing aside for a moment, this is kind of interesting, and others have alluded to it too.
What do you think "Sexy"means? You seem to think that if any part of their bodies are not anatomically correct for sex, and if they are clothed, it can't be sexy? I genuinely don't get that. We were talking a little about this on the Most Erotic Video thread. One video was noted as being inexplicably sexy, which boiled down to nothing more than the look on the fully clothed and partnerless singer's face. To a lot of us, sexiness is in the suggestion and implication more than like overt porn. My wife can do this with ease: she can be fully clothed and across the room, and just giving me a certain look, I find her incredibly erotic. On the flip, a woman could be stripped down and taking it in both ends and not be sexy at all. Do you think people have to be undressed and in correct sex positions to be sensuous to an observer? Might clear the out-of-whack perception up here. |
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5th August 2021, 08:19 AM | #187 |
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5th August 2021, 08:26 AM | #188 |
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None, none of their body parts are anatomically correct for sex. There's nothing about that photo, to me, that implies they're about to have sex. You and Warp12 seem to think he's ready to, what term are we using now? Plow? Dump truck? Bone? Well, whatever sweet term you're using for it, at any moment. I'm also not saying it can't be sexy, I'm saying I don't find it sexy for the stated reasons. Does that help?
Right, to a lot of you. I'm saying that's ridiculous. You can be sexy while being clothed, if that's what you're asking. Some clothes, I dare say, are sexy themselves. Again, hopefully that will clear this up. My point isn't in one aspect, my point is the combination of all of the things I've said make me feel like this isn't a sexy, erotic, or suggestive enough picture to be a problem for anyone, let alone a principal. That's...certainly something. No, of course not, but I do need more than a married couple, fully clothed, laying on the beach and having a picture taken. I totally get it, YOU find this suggestive, or sensuous. I'm not sure why it's blowing your mind that I don't, but I think we can fairly easily come the conclusion that you and I are at odds with what we find sensuous and suggestive. It is what it is. |
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5th August 2021, 08:41 AM | #189 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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5th August 2021, 08:45 AM | #190 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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5th August 2021, 08:52 AM | #191 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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5th August 2021, 09:00 AM | #192 |
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Agreed on all counts, and kudos to you for the level delivery. One nitpick re my position: while this could be attributed to any number of motivations, overt racism included, my needle swings a little harder than usual towards the sexy thing on this one, based on only one pic singled out of all his pics with his wife, and that one is the lightly sultry one.
Also, if it is an example of white on black racism, wouldn't we kind of need to identify the racists as, you know...white? We don't even know. Doesn't stop the Uptight Whitey Brigade here from assuming, though. Also: the "Texas Racists": the figures presented were raw numbers, not per capita...from the second highest population in the States. A skeptic might question that. |
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5th August 2021, 09:17 AM | #193 |
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For a position that no one has expressed, they sure have gone on arguing about how erotic, sensuous or sexual the picture is, why is that? If I, or he, is arguing against a position that no one has expressed, why are there constant arguments about how sexual the pic is?
Everyone participating here understands that the forum members aren't "offended" by the pictures. You'd have to be a complete dope to be offended by these pictures. If what you're saying is true, then it's completely odd how at least 2 members in this thread are prattling on and on about how the principal is ready to insert_stupidass_slur_for_sex_here in the picture. |
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5th August 2021, 09:21 AM | #194 |
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5th August 2021, 09:22 AM | #195 |
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5th August 2021, 09:25 AM | #196 |
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Again, without the jabbing: we noted that the reason Dr Whitfield was asked to remove it may be that the pic was a little too sexy-ish for a school principal who discusses school matters on that page. We are meeting with direct pushback denying that anyone could possibly take that as sexy. I mean come on, they are fully clothed and a leg is in the wrong place, right?
The narrative argument here is that he is being racially persecuted. Ok. Any evidence presented yet that his aggressors are in fact white? Serious question. Pretty basic requirement for your argument. |
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5th August 2021, 09:50 AM | #197 |
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What jabbing? Who's jabbing what?
Ah yes, those two things are the only reasons why I don't think they're sexy. Top notch detective work as per usual, Thermal. Top. Notch. Just to cutoff the lame reply that will be some form of "that's all you've said hurhurhur". It's not. I don't see anything sexual in that picture worth mentioning, or any picture that's been presented. I've asked for others only to be met with silence. What I have seen is two, apparently, surfer bros use various super dope terms implying that they're ready to pound right on the beach. The **** ? My argument? My only argument is how stupid it is that these pictures are considered sexual and asked to be taken down in the first place. I think my biggest problem is the fact that the committee member that fielded the phone call didn't just leave it at "yeah, we'll look into it" and be done. In fact, I specifically said that I don't know if it's racist or not, just that racism doesn't always have to come in blatant form. It can be through harassment, or nitpicking nonsense like this. |
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5th August 2021, 10:10 AM | #198 |
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I've passed the image around the available sample of humans here (the cat expressed no opinion) as an experiment and the unanimous (7/7) view was 'no'.
The descriptions were universally in the 'cute', 'awww' and 'meh' ranges.With some critique of the posed nature of the photo. |
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5th August 2021, 10:11 AM | #199 |
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For Thermal, at least, I interpreted his posts to be describing how someone else could possible see the pictures as too sexy, not how he sees them as too sexy. Because it's been clear to me that he doesn't see them as too sexy.
I do agree that his descriptions to that end were somewhat hyperbolic. ("mounting position?") If I were to describe how someone else might see them, I would have compared it to the cover of a fairly tame romance novel: romantic, with a hint of sexuality. The point not being that the picture is super hot, but that some people have their prim and proper level set that low. And to be clear, it is way too low. As for the other poster... well... I haven't really paid much attention to him. I do think there is an interesting discussion as to what kind of image an educator should be expected to present on social media. For the most part, I lean towards: if it's not illegal, then it's fine, but I can understand arguments to the contrary. This particular picture really shouldn't trigger anyone, but there is always some puritan out there who thinks married people should sleep in separate beds like on 50s TV. And apparently, there are people who comb through educator's facebook pages looking for crap: Here's a teacher who was given a choice to resign or be suspended because complained about a picture she posted of herself holding a beer during a trip to Europe: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/did-the...-kill-privacy/ Another one where a teacher was reprimanded for posting pictures of herself pole dancing in her home. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...dancing-videos There are also a slew of firings or reprimands to teachers for the words they post. Some have been for making statements critical of the district. Some have been for things that most here would probably agree they should be fired for, such as posting their views against gay marriage, BLM, or other political things. (I'll admit that I haven't found a direct analog to this particular case. I've also noticed that most of the cases I've found have been women.) So are there limits to what a teacher should be able to post on social media that are more restrictive than what, say, an auto mechanic can post? If so, how do we decide which activities, opinions, or jokes cross the line? Does the line get set by someone like, SuburbanTurkey? thePrestige? EmilysCat? Whose standards should we use? I'm sure we can all agree that it shouldn't be someone who is offended by tame romantic pictures like the one being discussed here. But whose standards should be used? |
5th August 2021, 10:12 AM | #200 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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