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19th June 2017, 03:22 PM | #1 |
Penultimate Amazing
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US Citizen Otto Warmbier, returned from North Korea, has died
The sad news on the US student, Otto Warmbier, returned home to his family, is that he has died. He was jailed in North Korea for a prank and sent back to the USA in a coma, after 15 months of his sentence, with brain trauma.
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What sanctions can be taken, if any? |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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19th June 2017, 03:38 PM | #2 |
Master Poster
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How about
1 Don't visit North Korea 2 If you do, don't be a dick, as the punishment for being a dick is having your life destroyed. 2a Just because you're not being a dick, it does not mean the government will not make an example of you, as you are an evil depraved westerner. 2b by visiting North Korea as a tourist you are providing direct monetary support for an oppressive evil regime, so visiting North Korea may automatically make you a dick. 3 Goto 1 |
19th June 2017, 03:59 PM | #3 |
Penultimate Amazing
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19th June 2017, 04:04 PM | #4 |
Penultimate Amazing
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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19th June 2017, 04:28 PM | #5 |
Philosopher
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It wasn't a prank, it was theft. And not just any theft. No doubt he stole the banner so he could use it to ridicule North Korea. A thief and a dick.
Originally Posted by theprestige
North Korea is a foreign country with different laws to ours. Some of those laws may seem pretty harsh to us, but only an idiot would deliberately disobey them. And it's not like he didn't know that theft is a crime. |
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We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good. |
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19th June 2017, 04:46 PM | #6 |
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The Three Word Story Pledge of Allegiance- "I Hereby swear upon Engelbert's grave that I will gallop, not stride run, not walk posting three words on Shemp's honor, honoring: bananas, dwarfs, clarinets, [the 7th naughty forum word], haggis, Batman, nuns, wombats until such time as I'm sober. Or dead." "Some people have a way with words, other people...Um...Oh...Uh, not have way." -Steve Martin |
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19th June 2017, 04:48 PM | #7 |
Penultimate Amazing
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The kid was dumb,but in the end the North Korean Regime was the guilty party, and that people are trying to let Dear Leader off the hook for this is a little disturbing.
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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19th June 2017, 04:48 PM | #8 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Everybody is allowed to make a mistake. So he did something stupid.
A callow youth aged 22 takes a souvenir of a North Korea banner and is caught. You don't think 15 years hard labour and being reduced to a brain-damage coma, caused by respiratory trauma, within a month of the sentence before being sent home near death's door 15 months later, is cruel and unusual punishment? |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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19th June 2017, 04:49 PM | #9 |
Poisoned Waffles
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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19th June 2017, 04:53 PM | #10 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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19th June 2017, 04:57 PM | #11 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I wonder if some people are not so afraid of war breaking out with North Korea that they are adapting a "We must not do anything to offend them" attitude.
Screw that. the North Korean Regime is a cruel,corrupt, barbaric regime and Dear Leader is somebody the world would be better off without. |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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19th June 2017, 04:57 PM | #12 |
A Little Ugly on the Side
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The Three Word Story Pledge of Allegiance- "I Hereby swear upon Engelbert's grave that I will gallop, not stride run, not walk posting three words on Shemp's honor, honoring: bananas, dwarfs, clarinets, [the 7th naughty forum word], haggis, Batman, nuns, wombats until such time as I'm sober. Or dead." "Some people have a way with words, other people...Um...Oh...Uh, not have way." -Steve Martin |
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19th June 2017, 04:59 PM | #13 |
Poisoned Waffles
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I mean the whole "that kid tried to steal a banner" story. I doubt that, or anything even like it, ever happened at all. NK wanted to grab an American, so they did. And they made up a story they imagined, in their jaundiced and literally insane view of the world, would sound likely. Signs? Churches? Suuuuuure.
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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19th June 2017, 05:00 PM | #14 |
Cowardly Lurking in the Shadows of Greatness
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Normal is just a stereotype. |
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19th June 2017, 05:01 PM | #15 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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19th June 2017, 05:02 PM | #16 |
Penultimate Amazing
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19th June 2017, 05:03 PM | #17 |
Penultimate Amazing
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So the sanctimonious among us have:
- never taken a souvenir from a hotel (soap, shampoo, towel, even) - refrained from nicking a road sign with 'Abbey Road' or 'Penny Lane', if given the opportunity - never taken a whole handful (or entire bowlful) of mint sweets at the end of an Indian meal as soon as the waiters take their eyes off you - never not left a 'suggested donation of £5' when visiting a museum or art gallery? |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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19th June 2017, 05:08 PM | #18 |
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The Three Word Story Pledge of Allegiance- "I Hereby swear upon Engelbert's grave that I will gallop, not stride run, not walk posting three words on Shemp's honor, honoring: bananas, dwarfs, clarinets, [the 7th naughty forum word], haggis, Batman, nuns, wombats until such time as I'm sober. Or dead." "Some people have a way with words, other people...Um...Oh...Uh, not have way." -Steve Martin |
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19th June 2017, 05:21 PM | #19 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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19th June 2017, 05:29 PM | #20 |
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19th June 2017, 05:36 PM | #21 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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19th June 2017, 05:41 PM | #22 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Warmer's roommate speaks out
"Gratton said that in the four days they spent together, Warmbier never said anything about a banner and that he saw zero evidence that Warmbier was planning any such act — quite the opposite. The first Gratton heard of the alleged attempted theft was when it was mentioned in news reports weeks later. Gratton and Warmbier weren’t together 24 hours each day, but they traveled together during the day and hung out each night.
"'I’ve got nothing from my experiences with him that would suggest he would do something like that,' he said. 'At no stage did I ever think he was anything but a very, very polite kid.'" link Link to blurry video of the alleged thievery. At this point I would say that there is no persuasive evidence that Mr. Warmbier actually stole anything. |
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19th June 2017, 05:50 PM | #23 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I hate agreeing with Trump about anything, but I find no fault with his statements on this so far:
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"There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar "Let your ears hear this beautiful song that's hiding underneath the sound," Ed Kowalczyk. |
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19th June 2017, 05:54 PM | #24 | ||
Penultimate Amazing
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It was the Obama administration which tried to make the Warmbier family shut up about his imprisonment, and the Trump admin which pushed to get him released. And there were some lefty outlets who basically said he got what he deserved: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/la-sha...b_9531122.html "Yeah, I’m willing to bet my last dollar that he was aware of the political climate in that country, but privilege is a hell of a drug. The high of privilege told him that North Korea’s history of making examples out of American citizens who dare challenge their rigid legal system in any way was no match for his alabaster American privilege. ... I’m a black woman though. The hopeless fear Warmbier is now experiencing is my daily reality living in a country where white men like him are willfully oblivious to my suffering even as they are complicit in maintaining the power structures which ensure their supremacy at my expense." http://www.salon.com/2016/03/02/this...ium=socialflow “North Korea isn’t a playground for college pranks, Kim Jong-un isn’t a fictional character from a Seth Rogen movie, and Pyongyang isn’t some game you play with Coors Light and Solo cups,” Wilmore continued. “It’s just tough for me to have much sympathy for this guy and his crocodile tears.” |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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19th June 2017, 05:55 PM | #25 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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19th June 2017, 07:18 PM | #26 |
Banned
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19th June 2017, 07:26 PM | #27 |
Straussian
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North Korea just murdered an American citizen. President Trump should not -- and will not -- let this stand. We must go to war ASAP.
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Cain: Don't be a homo. Diablo: What's that supposed to mean? Cain: It's a heteronormative remark meant to be taken at face-value. |
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19th June 2017, 07:33 PM | #28 |
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
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Being the victim of genocidal atrocities does not give you free reign to commit your own genocidal atrocities. When Republican politicians were young, they were the kids who watched James Bond movies and said "I want to grow up to be just like [insert name of villain here]." |
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19th June 2017, 07:41 PM | #29 |
Nasty Woman
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The video looks convincing.
Not saying that justifies what happened. Poor kid was a pawn and I'm glad the parents are trying to get the word out that the tour companies lie about the safety of the trips. Dying this soon after returning, I'm guessing the parents pulled the food/fluid plug and I don't blame them. He wouldn't have lived much longer even if they didn't. |
19th June 2017, 07:43 PM | #30 |
Penultimate Amazing
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When Britain was world Hegemon it did things like that too. BBC on the burning of the Summer Palace in Beijing, 1860.
In response, Lord Elgin ordered the British troops to burn down the entire Summer Palace complex. |
19th June 2017, 07:43 PM | #31 |
Nasty Woman
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19th June 2017, 08:07 PM | #32 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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19th June 2017, 08:13 PM | #33 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Maybe my eyesight is worse than I thought
See comment #23. I see a person...
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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19th June 2017, 08:15 PM | #34 |
Show me the monkey!
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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19th June 2017, 08:19 PM | #35 |
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
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We do these things not because they are easy, but because we thought they were going to be easy. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos |
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19th June 2017, 08:21 PM | #36 |
Show me the monkey!
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CNN: According to the North Korean government, Warmbier was detained because he had stolen a political poster from a restricted floor in his hotel. The next time the world saw Warmbier he was distraught, breaking down in front of Korean journalists in a video North Korea released in February 2016.
He admitted to the crime and begged for forgiveness. He pleaded to be released. Instead, he was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor. |
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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19th June 2017, 08:24 PM | #37 |
Penultimate Amazing
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It seems fishy.
More from WaPo: "The first time Gratton saw any sign of trouble was when the pair were among the last to go through security at the Pyongyang International Airport in the early morning of Jan. 2, 2016. They were running late because the hotel had mysteriously and uncharacteristically missed their wake-up call."
From the NYT: "At a news conference last year, Mr. Warmbier acknowledged stealing the poster and said that he had done so because an acquaintance had offered to give him a used car worth $10,000 in exchange for it. “I made the worst mistake of my life,” Mr. Warmbier said. Whether the confession was genuine or coerced was not clear." Has this person ever come forward to verify Mr. Warmbier's account? |
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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19th June 2017, 08:42 PM | #38 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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19th June 2017, 08:57 PM | #39 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 11,311
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Curiouser and curiouser
From Time Magazine: "A Young Pioneer representative will go through the process last, to make sure the group has gone through smoothly. Warmbier was the last of his group to check in, and thus there was only one non-Korean witness to what happened next: 24-year-old Briton Charlotte Guttridge. When she noticed that he was taking longer than usual, she began to walk over to him, only to be told by an insistent airport official that she had to pass through immigration immediately."
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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19th June 2017, 10:11 PM | #40 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Congress seems to be inclined to ban travel to NK by U.S. citizens.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.724139090ca9 |
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