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21st June 2017, 03:39 PM | #161 |
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Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting. |
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21st June 2017, 03:49 PM | #162 |
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How'd you figure that? I would have thought providing financial support to Kims terrible reigeme, just like good ol' Otto did would be more helpful to Kim than me calling him evil, but hey, maybe you just have an odd definition of "helper".
Just cause Otto died does not mean I cannot think he was stupid for going, Just like I think that about everyone else that went but didn't get imprisoned. |
21st June 2017, 03:51 PM | #163 |
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22nd June 2017, 03:51 AM | #164 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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22nd June 2017, 04:36 AM | #165 |
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“There are mysteries we cannot fathom”
Some of Warmbier’s friends spoke, as candles glowed in the amphitheater around them, about his brilliance, his adventurousness, his boundless joy, his faith in connection. He was the one to call rather than text, often, for routine plans (even if friends initially found that weird). He was the one to ignore a hand proffered for an introductory handshake with a grin and a tight embrace, saying, “Let’s bring it in,” or “Let’s hug it out!” WaPo link to story by Susan Svluga.
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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22nd June 2017, 04:58 AM | #166 |
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22nd June 2017, 05:27 AM | #167 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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22nd June 2017, 07:53 AM | #168 |
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Swimming Coach
"Todd Siler, who taught Warmbier in high school, said his youngest daughter, a sixth-grader, watched the doctors talking last week about Warmbier, who had been her swimming coach. The two of them were close; Warmbier loved that every time she surfaced through the water, she had a big, spontaneous smile on her face, Siler said, and used to tease her, warmly, about that." From an earlier WaPo story.
Whatever mistakes he might have made, he does not deserve to be called names. |
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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22nd June 2017, 09:35 AM | #169 |
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22nd June 2017, 10:40 AM | #170 |
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This is a very superficial view - literally.
Yes skin and soft tissue injuries will have healed. There may or may not be scars. BUT, it is very likely that before allowing him to pass away the medical team will have carried out an MRI of the brain at minimum. The pattern of brain injuries will tell you about the mechanism of injury. A good example is how MRI scans identify brain injury from recurrent concussion in boxers or football players. Boney injury would also be apparent, even invisible soft tissue scarring from physical injury. The pattern of brain injury from oxygen starvation is very different from that due to physical injury. Studies suggest that a full body MRI gives as much information as an autopsy, a full body MRI is an effective alternative in cases where the family do not wish an autopsy. |
22nd June 2017, 03:39 PM | #171 |
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He bought posters
Ria Westergaard Pedersen, 33, who was with Warmbier in North Korea, told the Danish broadcaster TV2 this week that he had been nervous when taking pictures of soldiers, and said she doubted North Korea’s explanation for his arrest.
“We went to buy propaganda posters together, so why in the world would he risk so much to steal a trivial poster? It makes no sense.” link |
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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22nd June 2017, 03:49 PM | #172 |
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Well he was selfish and a dick. He wasn't in North Korea for the benifit of the people. While there he was providing financial support for an evil oppressive regeime for bragging rights. Just because he ended up getting screwed over by that evil opressive regeime does not turn his selfishness to altruisim.
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22nd June 2017, 09:08 PM | #173 |
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22nd June 2017, 09:16 PM | #174 |
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Oh please give it a rest. Fine he was a gentle giant, great guy, but this is a skeptics board. Do you do this for every thread where someone dies? - What Korea did to him was beyond terrible. - Going to North Korea as a tourist, in my opinion, is very stupid. This means, I am calling him stupid. Too bad. Those statements can both be true. I can't type what I think about N. Korea here, it would be all asterisks, but that doesn't change the fact. Stupid is as stupid does, and North Korea sucks. |
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Why bother? |
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22nd June 2017, 09:21 PM | #175 |
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22nd June 2017, 09:53 PM | #176 |
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22nd June 2017, 09:55 PM | #177 |
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23rd June 2017, 07:35 AM | #178 |
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NK Tourism
More from the same paragraph in The Economist: "The travel company based in China is one of a handful that offer tightly marshalled circuits around mostly beautified bits of the impoverished gangster state. 'Despite what you may hear,' it continued, 'North Korea is probably one of the safest places on Earth to visit.'"
From Vox. "At least 16 US citizens have been detained in North Korea in the past 10 years, and three have yet to be released. Warmbier is also not the first nor the only American to have been injured during captivity. But many Americans head there anyway. Simon Cockerell, general manager of Koryo Tours, estimates that some 20 percent of the 4,000 to 5,000 Western tourists who venture to North Korea every year are Americans, according to the New York Times." From the WaPo: "North Korean leader Kim Jong Un has set a goal of attracting a million tourists to the *Communist-ruled county. Critics have said tourism is a significant source of foreign currency for the regime." |
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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23rd June 2017, 07:53 AM | #179 |
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And? What about skepticism requires the judgmentalism you've shown? It's one thing to conclude that going to North Korea is dangerous, and it was a mistake for him to do so. But you've got no idea what information (or misinformation) he was basing his decision on. Making judgments about the quality of his character in the absence of any such knowledge has nothing to do with skepticism.
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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23rd June 2017, 12:26 PM | #180 |
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24th June 2017, 09:17 AM | #181 |
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Timing is everything
Politico has an article that raises some questions IMO. "The American remembers the North Korean guides concerned and angry. They asked him, “Where’s Danny [Gratton]? Is he drunk? What do you mean he’s gone?” The tourists waited in the square for hours, until their guides eventually returned them to the hotel. Gratton took several taxis and made it back sometime early in the morning, according to the American, who says he saw him walk back into the hotel."
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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24th June 2017, 10:21 AM | #182 |
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there is no substitute for doing one's homework
If you had followed my other comments links, you would understand that one reason I posted the comment in question was to document why Mr. Siler may be treated as a knowledgeable source about Mr. Warmbier. Being a good skeptic sometimes means going out and obtaining more information.
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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25th June 2017, 01:22 PM | #183 |
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the deaconess and the tie to the secret society look to be fictitious
"The senior pastor at Friendship United Methodist Church in Wyoming, Ohio, told CNN he did not know the person identified by Warmbier in the KCNA story [the one who supposedly offered a car] as a deaconess there, and said Warmbier was not a member of the congregation." link
"According to a North Korean source quoted by CNN, Warmbier didn't actually steal the banner — he reportedly abandoned it because it was too big to carry away with him." link Also from the second link: "A spokesperson for the Z Society told CNN no contact had ever been made between the secretive group and Warmbier." |
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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26th June 2017, 07:20 AM | #184 |
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Think this will impact tourism to north korea? If so will it increase or reduce it?
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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26th June 2017, 07:35 AM | #185 |
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How should I say this...
I'm not shocked. I don't know why this guy was in North Korea to begin with. Okay, to be clear, we're discussing a government that is evil. Dude executes his imagined opponents in new and imaginative ways - including shooting them with anti-aircraft weapons. It's reasonable to be disgusted at N. Korea, and also to say "well, why even visit there?" N. Korea's rulers are a problem. This guy did not help. That's not to say he deserved what he got, which he did not. |
26th June 2017, 09:00 AM | #186 |
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26th June 2017, 02:10 PM | #187 |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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26th June 2017, 02:22 PM | #188 |
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Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
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27th June 2017, 07:18 AM | #189 |
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NK spokesman: we are the biggest victim
At Politico an AP story: "The spokesman also said that "groundless" speculation of torture and beatings could be refuted by American doctors who came to the North to examine Warmbier before his release and allegedly acknowledged that North Korean doctors had "brought him back alive" after his heart nearly stopped.
"While Pyongyang accepted U.S. demands for Warmbier's return on humanitarian grounds, Washington "totally distorted this truth and dared to clamor about 'retaliation' and 'pressure'" on "dignified" North Korea, the spokesman told KCNA. ""To make it clear, we are the biggest victim of this incident and there would be no more foolish judgment than to think we do not know how to calculate gains and losses," the spokesman said." |
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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27th June 2017, 07:47 AM | #190 |
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It may have been posted or discussed earlier, but retired judge Michael Kirby agrees that the injury to Warmbier was not a result of torture or beatings.
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27th June 2017, 08:00 AM | #191 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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27th June 2017, 08:13 AM | #192 |
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North Korea is communist fascist.
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27th June 2017, 08:25 AM | #193 |
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A different view of what Judge Kirby said
Here is a transcript of an interview from ABC in Australia. Just skimmed it, but it doesn't sound much like the Daily Mail's take, which seems to be based upon a Sky News interview.
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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27th June 2017, 09:01 AM | #194 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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27th June 2017, 10:42 AM | #195 |
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27th June 2017, 11:30 AM | #196 |
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I'm confused.
Why was this guy in North Korea to begin with? We know that that horrible government, why even try for it? |
27th June 2017, 11:43 AM | #197 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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27th June 2017, 11:48 AM | #198 |
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27th June 2017, 11:59 AM | #199 |
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University of Delaware adjunct professor
About a thousand Americans travel there per year, but I would have to say that it seems a risky proposition to do so. Maybe Otto Warmbier was naive, but I don't believe he actually took anything. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time IMO.
EDT. Attempts to link this incident to white privilege, as one former U of Delaware adjunct professor did, are...questionable. |
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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27th June 2017, 12:03 PM | #200 |
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