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Old 15th March 2019, 08:54 AM   #361
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A couple of terrorism experts pointed out the sad irony of this situation: The killer has just given groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda the biggest favor they have gotten in years.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:58 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
In California, it's so the concept of good gun/bad gun can be reinforced.

Elsewhere, I believe it's an attempt to wrap one's head around a fact in an incident that can't be explained or rationalized by logical thinking.
I can only speak for myself but I'm interested in how he actually managed to shoot so many people. I'm no gun nut but I'm fairly knowlagable. These kind of incidents are interesting both in how they are motivated and executed.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:59 AM   #363
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Just woke up to this disgusting news.

Another sick day in a sick world. Right-wing terrorism strikes again... and all the sick ***** cheering on the slaughter of innocents all across the internet.

Ugh.



My heart goes out to all New Zealanders. The ripple effect of this horrific incident is going to impact your lives for a very long time.

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Old 15th March 2019, 09:00 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Carnivore View Post
41 dead at one mosque, only 7 at the other. Apparently the shooter fled when one of the intended victims at the Linwood mosque managed to snatch the shooter's gun. Well done that man. It's sobering to think this atrocity was almost even worse.
I don't think he wanted to end it all alive. Having his gun wrenched away probably changed his ability to choose death for himself. That's my opinion. He was going to go out shooting like so many others have before him. Either shot dead or suicide.
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:04 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I can only speak for myself but I'm interested in how he actually managed to shoot so many people. I'm no gun nut but I'm fairly knowlagable. These kind of incidents are interesting both in how they are motivated and executed.

He had an AR 15;don[t know if he modified it to full auto.
But even on Semi Auto you can get off a awful lot of shots with a couple of 30 round magazins....as anybody who served in the US Military for the last 50 years can tell you.
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:06 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Thank you. I'll just accept that I can't understand the need for the discussion.

To me, it's like discussing why the gunman chose NIKEs over ADIDAS shoes. Doesn't seem relevant when 49 people are dead.
I agree.

At one point in my LE career I had to address a news conference involving a multiple homicide.

I was asked if an assault weapon was used. When I replied that the murder weapon was a conventional 9mm semi-auto handgun, faces dropped in the reporter pool.
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:08 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I can only speak for myself but I'm interested in how he actually managed to shoot so many people. I'm no gun nut but I'm fairly knowlagable. These kind of incidents are interesting both in how they are motivated and executed.
Unarmed, untrained and unprepared groups of victims usually freeze in place.
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:11 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I can only speak for myself but I'm interested in how he actually managed to shoot so many people. I'm no gun nut but I'm fairly knowlagable. These kind of incidents are interesting both in how they are motivated and executed.
Target selection and planning make a big impact on total deaths. This guy was very well prepared and picked a location where large numbers of people were known to be gathered in cramped quarters. The manifesto, 8chan memed murder weapons, and live stream all carefully orchestrated to sow maximum terror. There would have been more if not for the hero that ran him off the second mosque.
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:14 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
That's it!

I'm attacking my brothers and sister in Melbourne!
I, for one, welcome Jacinda Ardern as our new overlord.

What a ******* horrible day. My heart goes out to the victims and their loved ones.
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:15 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
He had an AR 15;don[t know if he modified it to full auto.
But even on Semi Auto you can get off a awful lot of shots with a couple of 30 round magazins....as anybody who served in the US Military for the last 50 years can tell you.
There was no full auto shooting in the video. It was rapid semi-auto if he wanted that. Other times the shots were slower.

He used many 30 round magazines. Many. There seemed to be no desire or effort to conserve bullets. He carried many magazines. If he ran out or low he simply went back outside to his car to get more. He did this multiple times without any hurry.

The people inside that mosque were lambs at slaughter. So horrible.
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:18 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
He had an AR 15;don[t know if he modified it to full auto.
But even on Semi Auto you can get off a awful lot of shots with a couple of 30 round magazins....as anybody who served in the US Military for the last 50 years can tell you.
US Army Infantry here. 2/327th.

It's fairly easy to get off 30 rounds in under 20 seconds if you're not aiming.
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:21 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Here is a rifle at the mosque. At this point he is in walking sniper mode outside at the parking lot and sidewalks. There is a clip attached to the right side of the gun but he is also carrying more clips.
Jungle clip holding two magazines together for quick changes.

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Old 15th March 2019, 09:22 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by philkensebben View Post
Just read on wiki it was 19, but yeah, ridiculous. I dont understand how that works. If you can bothered, can you explain to me how he became a Senator on the back of 19 votes? Perhaps on the Australian politics thread so as not to derail this.

Anyway, absolutely terrible thing to happen in Christchurch. Very sorry for my NZ brothers and sisters.
While he got very few personal votes his party got enough votes above the line to get 2 senators from Queensland, and after the moron Roberts was disqualified for being a dual (or was it tri?) citizen, it passed down to number 3, which was him. He has since proven to be too racist even for Pauline Hanson and Bob Katter and has left both of their parties to found his own, which will get approximately 0 votes at the next election. Come may he'll be unemployed, thankfully. Hopefully he never gets a public megaphone again.
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:25 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Unarmed, untrained and unprepared groups of victims usually freeze in place.
Even armed, trained, prepared soldiers can freeze up. Combat experience is an asset in armed conflicts. People really don't know how they are going to react until they are in the thick of it.
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:26 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Why is it important which models of autmatic rifles and shotguns he used and what accessories they had? I'm not judging, just asking.
The type of rifle would indicate whether it was NZ-legal, and hence its source. Sights, not so much.
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:30 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
Even armed, trained, prepared soldiers can freeze up. Combat experience is an asset in armed conflicts. People really don't know how they are going to react until they are in the thick of it.
As much as I'd like to assume I'd sprint for safety or rush the shooter, I think it's likely the surprise of getting shot at and being surrounded by the chaos of dead, dying, and wounded people would be absolutely paralyzing in the moment. Such misery is inconceivable.
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:31 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by Damien Evans View Post
While he got very few personal votes his party got enough votes above the line to get 2 senators from Queensland, and after the moron Roberts was disqualified for being a dual (or was it tri?) citizen, it passed down to number 3, which was him. He has since proven to be too racist even for Pauline Hanson and Bob Katter and has left both of their parties to found his own, which will get approximately 0 votes at the next election. Come may he'll be unemployed, thankfully. Hopefully he never gets a public megaphone again.
Which is why I prefer voting for the individual candidate rather then a party ticket.
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:31 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
Even armed, trained, prepared soldiers can freeze up. Combat experience is an asset in armed conflicts. People really don't know how they are going to react until they are in the thick of it.
Too true.

One of the "lessons learned" passed along to me back in the day:

Green trooper "Top, check out those fireflys!"

1st Sgt. "Fireflys my ass, those are ******* tracers!"
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:40 AM   #379
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In the military you learn that the "natural" reaction to a sudden, unexpected loud noise isn't to either run or fully "hit the deck." What people do is this weird freeze and half duck motion. They freeze, lower their body maybe a foot at most, and look around.

Not that's a perfectly valid reflex for say avoiding a predator in the bush. Kind of counter productive against gunfire.
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:40 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post

Either that or do what Shidiq Khan said
Who?
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:41 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
As much as I'd like to assume I'd sprint for safety or rush the shooter, I think it's likely the surprise of getting shot at and being surrounded by the chaos of dead, dying, and wounded people would be absolutely paralyzing in the moment. Such misery is inconceivable.
You could see some sprint for safety. He dropped them. He was accurate and also not concerned with saving bullets. He dropped guys that were running down the sidewalk already a block away.

Inside the mosque there was no cover for the people. The prayer rooms have no furniture or anything to hide behind or under. Just walls and carpet. People congregated in the corners and piled themselves on top of each other. He just walked up to the masses of people and shot everyone. No mercy whatsoever.

Your only hope was to pretend to be dead. But then he was shooting people who pretended to be dead or already were dead.
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:56 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
As much as I'd like to assume I'd sprint for safety or rush the shooter, I think it's likely the surprise of getting shot at and being surrounded by the chaos of dead, dying, and wounded people would be absolutely paralyzing in the moment. Such misery is inconceivable.
It depends on a combination of factors. If it happens too quickly you might not have time reflect, basically acting only on instinct and learned behaviour. If you can't see exactly what's happening because you're behind or inside of a crowd it's even more likely you will remain passive.
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Old 15th March 2019, 10:07 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
The only thing I was "going on" about was terrorist threats, which I take very seriously regardless of "ideaology." It's frightening you and the rest ISF don't

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1#post12377521

The only thing that's frightening here is anti-Muslim white supremacism as Baylor has been representing it in this forum for much too long.
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Old 15th March 2019, 10:18 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Say, what...?!
This the same person who claimed that we treat Islamic massacres "with undue additional curtesy [sic]".
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Old 15th March 2019, 10:28 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
In the military you learn that the "natural" reaction to a sudden, unexpected loud noise isn't to either run or fully "hit the deck." What people do is this weird freeze and half duck motion. They freeze, lower their body maybe a foot at most, and look around.

Not that's a perfectly valid reflex for say avoiding a predator in the bush. Kind of counter productive against gunfire.
And in the Army, the DI's try to "cure" you of that.
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Old 15th March 2019, 10:33 AM   #386
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This video shows the arrest of the shooter.

Originally Posted by New Zealand Herald
A motorist has captured the moment police officers, with weapons drawn, arrested a person following this afternoon's horrific massacres at two Christchurch mosques.

The video, uploaded to Facebook about 3.30pm, showed the two armed officers approaching a stationary car on Brougham St, a major dual carriageway which runs east-west through a residential area in the southern part of the city.

The vehicle, a grey station wagon, had been forced against the kerb of the residential road by a police car. It's front wheels were still spinning, just above the bitumen, as the incident unfolded.

One of the officers was shown reaching into the car, which had its boot and front passenger door open, and dragging a person out as the second officer kept their gun drawn.

As the person, clad in dark clothing, was dragged from the car one of the officers appeared to strike the person with their weapon.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12213097
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Old 15th March 2019, 10:34 AM   #387
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The world reaction to this incident is equivalent to the world reactions to the terror attacks committed in the last few years by Muslim extremists in Europe. Also, those perpetrators were in fact instantly identified as Muslim extremists as soon as the fact of their extremist affiliation became known. Anyone who contends otherwise is lying, and willfully spreading white supremacist apologism.
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Old 15th March 2019, 10:36 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
This video shows the arrest of the shooter.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12213097
I originally saw this video on YouTube yesterday evening. The comments were filled primarily with praise for the shooter.
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Old 15th March 2019, 10:42 AM   #389
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Is this where we get the accomplices? Suddenly he has getaway drivers?

But then when he is arrested at his car he has no getaway drivers? I'm confused.


Originally Posted by New Zealand Herald
Mazharuddin said the shooter was wearing protective gear and firing wildly.

A man from inside the mosque then tried to tackle the gunman.

"The young guy who usually takes care of the mosque ... he saw an opportunity and pounced on [the gunman] and took his gun," Mazharuddin said.

"The hero tried to chase and he couldn't find the trigger in the gun ... he ran behind him but there were people waiting for him in the car and he fled."

Mazharuddin said friends around him had been shot in the chest and another in the head.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12213205
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Old 15th March 2019, 10:42 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The world reaction to this incident is equivalent to the world reactions to the terror attacks committed in the last few years by Muslim extremists in Europe. Also, those perpetrators were in fact instantly identified as Muslim extremists as soon as the fact of their extremist affiliation became known. Anyone who contends otherwise is lying, and willfully spreading white supremacist apologism.
Agreed.
And, I repeat, the real sad irony is that the NZ shootings have provided ISIS and other Islamic groups with the best recruiting tool they have had in a long time.
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Old 15th March 2019, 10:44 AM   #391
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I originally saw this video on YouTube yesterday evening. The comments were filled primarily with praise for the shooter.
I have greater respect for any online publication which does not allow any comments versus ones who do allow. Almost always it is rotten.
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Old 15th March 2019, 10:55 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Is this where we get the accomplices? Suddenly he has getaway drivers?

But then when he is arrested at his car he has no getaway drivers? I'm confused.





https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12213205
It's always prudent to take witnesses testimony of a chaotic and frantic situation such as this with grains of salt. More so if they are second hand.

Even when there's one single shooter it seems that there is always someone saying it was more.
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Old 15th March 2019, 11:01 AM   #393
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
It's always prudent to take witnesses testimony of a chaotic and frantic situation such as this with grains of salt. More so if they are second hand.

Even when there's one single shooter it seems that there is always someone saying it was more.
Yes you are right. I've already read some eyewitness accounts at Al Noor with some errors. Only known to be wrong because there was front-row video happening.

I still maintain that there was one shooter, no on-the-scene accomplices and no bombs. Gasoline in small plastic cans would be the only explosives and maybe those were never removed from the station wagon.
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Old 15th March 2019, 11:06 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I was reading the comments on a Fox News article covering the shooting and they are all either blaming the victims, or complaining about Islam or Globalism. They come just short of openly endorsing the slaughter. The mainstream right is increasingly becoming hard to distinguish from the radical right. The ideological base of the alt-right is quite large.
'Quite' large? 62,984,828 voted for their leader, who is now the President of the US.

Quote:
The alt-right is dangerous. Everyone should have already known that, but it's going to be impossible to deny it now.
It's been impossible to deny it for some time, but still they do. This incident won't change anything.
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Old 15th March 2019, 11:09 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Is this where we get the accomplices? Suddenly he has getaway drivers?
At least those details will become clear in the next few days.

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And, I repeat, the real sad irony is that the NZ shootings have provided ISIS and other Islamic groups with the best recruiting tool they have had in a long time.
100% correct.

Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
It's always prudent to take witnesses testimony of a chaotic and frantic situation such as this with grains of salt. More so if they are second hand.

Even when there's one single shooter it seems that there is always someone saying it was more.
The list of misinformation during those couple of hours yesterday include, but definitely aren't limited to:

Multiple shooters
Multiple automatic weapons
IEDs (to date, cans of petrol)
Shots at Christchurch Hospital
Shots in Christchurch CBD

People were scared out of their brains and I bet every car that backfired yesterday afternoon in the entire country was called in as a shot being fired.

The ironic thing is, when it comes to immigration, Kiwis aren't immune to anti-immigration rhetoric, but it's always aimed at Chinese. Muslims are virtually off the radar.

Until yesterday.
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Old 15th March 2019, 11:14 AM   #396
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Here is a graphic map showing the route taken by the shooter's car, including the location of arrest. It isn't entirely complete because his video stops en route to the second mosque.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cp...p06_640-nc.png
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Old 15th March 2019, 11:17 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
'Quite' large? 62,984,828 voted for their leader, who is now the President of the US.

It's been impossible to deny it for some time, but still they do. This incident won't change anything.
It's the nature of the two party system that people vote for imperfect candidates. It is possible for people to underestimate the severity of their preferred candidates flaws, but come to fully appreciate them later. I am hoping that many who voted for Trump and/or other right wing candidates are coming to regret their decision. Shocking events like this shooting, or the Charlottesville Nazi rally in the US, make people really appreciate the reality of certain ideologies. Perhaps many are reconsidering what exactly they support.

I am not ready to accept that ~50% of the nation is straight up white supremacist and happy to see violence done to foreign strangers. If that isn't the case, we are well and truly screwed here in the US.
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Old 15th March 2019, 11:27 AM   #398
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As he leaves Al Noor he puts music on his car stereo. Loud music. Then as he is pulling away he sees somebody on the sidewalk. He slows and grabs the pump-action shotgun. He aims through the windshield and shoots. Pumps and shoots through holes in the glass several times. Then shoots through the passenger window as it shatters and falls out.

The song playing through all of this is Fire by Arthur Brown. Again like some sort of spree killer video game or a movie.

Here is the song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en1uwIzI3SE
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Old 15th March 2019, 11:33 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I see his fan club has arrived in the comments section.
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Old 15th March 2019, 11:38 AM   #400
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I see that PewDiePie fans have taken to social media to explain to us all in no uncertain terms that the real victim of the Christchurch mosque shootings was PewDiePie.
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