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Tags fires , France incidents , notre dame , Paris incidents

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Old 15th April 2019, 11:55 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I did. I also visited the place around 30 years ago when I was an insufferable teenager. I thought it was overrated. ...
The building, or the novel? Or both?

I have been to Paris only a couple of times, and didn't go to see ND. Don't know why. The second time, more than 20 years ago, I was there to meet a US-based friend from India, and to go on a grand tour of Europe with her. She was the type who wanted to tick of countries and sights from checklists, so in retrospect, I am surprised she did not demand paying ND a token visit.

As far as gothic cathedrals go, yeah I have heard it is not top-5 material. Still, it commands emotions, inspires symbolism.
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Old 15th April 2019, 11:56 AM   #42
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If I were the one that was responsible for this, even if it was purely by accident, I would consider emigration from France though.
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Old 15th April 2019, 11:57 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
If I were the one that was responsible for this, even if it was purely by accident, I would consider emigration from France though.
If someone is responsible through negligence or arson, I hope they nail them for this. Literally.
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Old 15th April 2019, 11:57 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Architect View Post
Chartres. Want more?
Been there. Very odd with its two completely different towers. Still impressive.
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:03 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
The building, or the novel? Or both?

The building. Sorry for being ambivalent. I still don't share my parents' love for cathedrals. And as long as I "agree" that the most relevant one is in Aachen we are fine.
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:05 PM   #46
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I'm calling BS on this one. If Notre Dame was really on fire, surely I would have heard about it by now.
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:06 PM   #47
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Please don't speak ill of dead monuments.
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:06 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
I'm calling BS on this one. If Notre Dame was really on fire, surely I would have heard about it by now.
The CIA has some documents stored there. Best way to get rid of them is to light the whole building on fire and watch it collapse.
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:08 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The CIA has some documents stored there. Best way to get rid of them is to light the whole building on fire and watch it collapse.
The only task of the (((firefighters))) there is to pull it.




...damn, I can't even cheer myself up with jokes. What a historic bummer.
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:15 PM   #50
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What a loss for humanity...
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:18 PM   #51
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It would frighten you all how common fires in listed buildings and the ilk actually are. For one to hit such an important building as this is especially tragic, and I speak as someone from the city that just lost GSA, Macintosh's best building, to a blaze. York, Windsor, the list goes on...
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:22 PM   #52
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It was a bit of a dump to be honest. There are better cathedrals in France and it's not a patch on York or Durham.

Still sad though.
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:23 PM   #53
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One of the problems with historic buildings is a lack of compartmentation, deliberate or otherwise, in conjunction with frequent penetrations for structure, services, and the like.



After the Windsor Castle fire, the UK government initiated a review of historic properties in state care ("the Estate") and I was invovled in that. My sites were easy - Skara Brae, Fort George, Fort Charlotte, and others. Even then, though, we had a programme of works to try to control the spread of flame and to look at how we might fight a fire.


This is very sad, a great loss. Professionally, though, I'd like to know more. The French know a thing or two about monuments, so what steps did they take in advance of works? Was there a fireplan in place? Were there special measures during the works?


That will be a long time coming out. There will need to be an investigation, and that will not be done quickly. In the meantime that doesn't stop the media making uninformed speculation.


The roof is completely down. I assume it will have taken the vaulting with it.
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:23 PM   #54
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Been past the place many a time when I lived in Paris. Me, I ended up falling in love with the rolling hills north of the city, on the road to Brussels, not so much Paris, which is tedious when you work for a living and do a daily slog. I'm a country boy anyway, so there's that. But what a tragedy, Notre Dame. Time for a scene from Casablanca on Youtube and a nod of respect.

Parisians - a class of their own - spoiled the place for me. New Yorkers, on the other hand, make NYC the place it is. Much preferred. But I like all the other people in France I've met, north or south, more than Parisians, who nevertheless on more than the odd occasion can be brilliant.

[Tidbit: In the days of Windows XP, the game of Internet Hearts, which allowed you to see the language spoken by your opponents, was always hilarious for me to play here in Europe. For whatever reason, a large portion of French speakers would always try to shoot the moon, then drop out whenever the grande stratégie flopped. Ou la la. I always muttered to myself "must be from Paris."]
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:24 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
It was a bit of a dump to be honest. There are better cathedrals in France and it's not a patch on York or Durham.

Still sad though.

Harsh, mate, harsh. But I thought it dark and gloomy compared to York FWIW.
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:28 PM   #56
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Any conspiracy theories yet? I'm sure there are some truthers pointing out the spire toppled over instead of collapsing straight down. And of course, the Illuminati MUST be behind it.
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:32 PM   #57
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Too soon, sir.
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:36 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
Parisians - a class of their own - spoiled the place for me.
Parisians are so famously horrible to foreigners that there is a mental syndrome attached to being around them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:37 PM   #59
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I hope you Americans aren’t pronouncing the cathedral “Noter Daame” like the college. That adds insult to injury...
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:40 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Any conspiracy theories yet? I'm sure there are some truthers pointing out the spire toppled over instead of collapsing straight down. And of course, the Illuminati MUST be behind it.

I already stated that Micron, the controversial president of France, with a lower approval rate than anyone except Porky, should not dare to use this incident as propaganda against the mass protests that are going on every saturday now for about half a year. so profound that he had to send in the army with dozens of casualties.
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:40 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
Parisians are so famously horrible to foreigners that there is a mental syndrome attached to being around them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome
I’ve been to Paris several times and have found Parisians not at all horrible. If you try to use a few French words (and you should greet people in the local language wherever you are) you are treated pretty well.
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:40 PM   #62
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We walked past it a few year ago. It is very imposing. But, we were in Paris for a short time and the line alone would have made it our only stop in the city. We were saving it for our next visit. This sucks.
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:44 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Architect View Post
Harsh, mate, harsh. But I thought it dark and gloomy compared to York FWIW.
I'd think that would be a good thing. The cathedral at Carlisle is rather gloomy and it's all the better for it.
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:45 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I hope you Americans aren’t pronouncing the cathedral “Noter Daame” like the college. That adds insult to injury...
Why is it wrong for people to pronounce foreign words according to the conventions of their native language?

Why do you take such offense?

I don't mind when my foreign relatives pronounce my name according to the convention of Brazilian Portuguese. Why should the French care how Americans pronounce Notre Dame when speaking English? And why on Earth is an Australian white-knighting the issue on behalf of the French, anyway?

Seriously, man. What is your problem?
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:47 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Any conspiracy theories yet? I'm sure there are some truthers pointing out the spire toppled over instead of collapsing straight down. And of course, the Illuminati MUST be behind it.
Apparently the anti-conspiracy theory algorithm at youtube has caused information about the 9/11 attacks to appear underneath streaming video of this fire.
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:48 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
...
Parisians - a class of their own - spoiled the place for me. ...
Better than I expected from cliché. Two scenes stand out from my first trip to Paris, a weekend in mid-December 1988 with my girl friend:
1. There was a little fair in the Garden of Tuilleries (sp?), and there was a merry-go-round with wooden horses. Since my g/f was a passionate rider, we had to take that ride. Now, it was mid-December, cold, drizzling rain - and we were absolutely the only visitors at the time, so the owner let us go round and round and round and round for like 20 minutes. That was the most romantic moment I remember from that short-live relationship, and I'll thank this particular Parisian forever for it.
2. At a restaurant, we checked out the deserts, but with my French being sadly very basic, and hers worse, we couldn't figure out what one ingredient of many deserts was; so finally I took heart, waived the waiter to us, and asked: "Excusez-moi, garcon, qu'est-que c'est - chantilly?" - and then other guests from various tables around turned to us and said in German, and in unison: "Sahne!" (cream). (You have to understand that the French in general, and Parisians in particular, are commonly said to not employ a foreign language, especially German, even if they can speak it, and will stick to French at all costs)
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:57 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Why is it wrong for people to pronounce foreign words according to the conventions of their native language?

Why do you take such offense?

I don't mind when my foreign relatives pronounce my name according to the convention of Brazilian Portuguese. ...
+1
My last name is of French language origin, and the majority of my extended family, living in Belgium though often speaking German as first language, still pronounce it more French than German. However those of us living as Germans in Germany pronounce it as if it were German.
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Old 15th April 2019, 01:01 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
If someone is responsible through negligence or arson, I hope they nail them for this. Literally.
The problem is that much of it's construction involves wood as a structural material. I suspect if they can lay it on a single person (which I highly doubt) that person should be long-gone several hours ago. BUT: why did not France and the church put in water and smotherant systems? Anyone aware of how and of what the church was built should have provided way good anti-fire systems.
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Old 15th April 2019, 01:12 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Architect View Post
It certainly looks worse than York Minster, which was at least contains to one transept.
Yes, York Minster, which was also undergoing work at the time....
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Old 15th April 2019, 01:17 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I hope you Americans aren’t pronouncing the cathedral “Noter Daame” like the college. That adds insult to injury...
How do you pronounce the capital of France? Paris or Paree (the latter with a rolled 'r')?
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Old 15th April 2019, 01:17 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Very sad. Definitely ND is in the top hundred best cathedrals of France. My art history snobbery leads to to suspect many if not most of the foreign bereaved cannot actually name a second cathedral in France.
Rouen, Amiens, Bayeux, etc.
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Old 15th April 2019, 01:20 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Architect View Post
Chartres. Want more?
<johncleese>Not a funny building...</johncleese>
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Old 15th April 2019, 01:21 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I hope you Americans aren’t pronouncing the cathedral “Noter Daame” like the college. That adds insult to injury...
Why not? That's how everyone . I know says it.
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Old 15th April 2019, 01:22 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Yes, York Minster, which was also undergoing work at the time....
York was caused by a lightning strike.
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Old 15th April 2019, 01:23 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

So horrible to watch the massive fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris. Perhaps flying water tankers could be used to put it out. Must act quickly!
I saw that the Paris Fire Department tweeted that they were doing everything they could except for water-bombing simply because that could jeopardize the structural integrity of the building.

In fact i don't know if it's ever a good idea to water-bomb a burning building.
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Old 15th April 2019, 01:27 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Why not? That's how everyone . I know says it.
I think it's the difference between "No-tra Dayme" and "Not-ra Daame."
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Old 15th April 2019, 01:29 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I saw that the Paris Fire Department tweeted that they were doing everything they could except for water-bombing simply because that could jeopardize the structural integrity of the building.

In fact i don't know if it's ever a good idea to water-bomb a burning building.
You know, the guy is the friggin president. He has the world's resources at his command. He could call the Fire Chief of France directly and the person would take his call. And he could ask why they didn't do X, Y or Z, and they would tell him exactly why they didn't.

But instead, he has to put it on twitter.

He really doesn't know what he's doing.
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Old 15th April 2019, 01:29 PM   #78
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General opinion in the pub tonight is that it was Muslims attacking France in Holy Week.
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Old 15th April 2019, 01:30 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
General opinion in the pub tonight is that it was Muslims attacking France in Holy Week.
I was going to suggest it will be blamed on immigrants. At least by Trump.
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Old 15th April 2019, 01:31 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I saw that the Paris Fire Department tweeted that they were doing everything they could except for water-bombing simply because that could jeopardize the structural integrity of the building.



In fact i don't know if it's ever a good idea to water-bomb a burning building.
Somewhere between saving the structure and saving the neighborhood, water bombing a building might be a good idea.
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