ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Coronavirus

Reply
Old 7th April 2020, 06:49 AM   #721
SuburbanTurkey
Illuminator
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Norwood, MA
Posts: 3,890
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Is there any reason to believe this is true?
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th April 2020, 07:50 AM   #722
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 12,029
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
So yes, the BBC should report press releases and official statements by the government. But they should also provide relevant facts that support or question the government’s position. This is the true role of journalism.
News bulletins do the former, programmes like Panorama do the latter.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th April 2020, 08:59 AM   #723
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 91,463
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Based on what other information? How can you know the truthfulness of what the government is saying unless news outlets also rigorously analyze the official government statements and provide a broader perspective?

But is your argument that the BBC, supported by taxes, is not a real news agency and is really just another arm of government? And must therefore be some completely bland conduit of whatever is fed them? Their reputation in the past in the USA is far higher. And people deserve more from their taxes IMHO.

So yes, the BBC should report press releases and official statements by the government. But they should also provide relevant facts that support or question the government’s position. This is the true role of journalism.

Nope my point is that news reports should report the news. Part of that news will be reporting on what the government is saying. That is not being a mouth piece for the government it is reporting what is happening. There is nothing to stop the news report to also cover what (for example) the opposition has to say about a government statement.

Other aspects of the BBC news departments do fantastic work in investigative journalism and reporting on that, often to the embarrassment of governments and people in power.

In summary news REPORTS should be about the actual news not editorial content about that news, that belongs in other programmes.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th April 2020, 09:04 AM   #724
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 91,463
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Is there any reason to believe this is true?

They are obviously being very careful on how they are wording things, but I consider that is being dishonest in this type of situation. They have been avoiding for example saying that he is critically ill, which is the only reason he would have been moved to a ICU. They report it as him being stable over night, that actually means there has been no improvement in his conditions, so he remains critically ill.

So they are being careful to not directly lie but not being honest.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th April 2020, 09:12 AM   #725
dann
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,692
What does Britain know about coronavirus that the rest of Europe doesn't? (CNN, March 14, 2020)
Nothing at all, apparently ...
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th April 2020, 09:14 AM   #726
SuburbanTurkey
Illuminator
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Norwood, MA
Posts: 3,890
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
They are obviously being very careful on how they are wording things, but I consider that is being dishonest in this type of situation. They have been avoiding for example saying that he is critically ill, which is the only reason he would have been moved to a ICU. They report it as him being stable over night, that actually means there has been no improvement in his conditions, so he remains critically ill.

So they are being careful to not directly lie but not being honest.
If he, or any other head of state, were placed on a ventilator, I wonder if the public would be informed. I could easily see the temptation to downplay severity right up until the point of death.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th April 2020, 09:34 AM   #727
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 27,142
I'm watching this Downing Street briefing.

I have appreciated the fact that the government is doing this, but...

...Dominic Raab looks very nervous in this briefing, and is speakingveryfastwithoutverymanypauses while denying that he has any veto power in the cabinet (which seems odd when he was essentially given that power by the PM - is this a constitutional issue that he is trying to tiptoe around?). Also, I like his diplomatic way of saying he is sending his best wishes to his girlfriend and his "whole family" (however many people that may be).

Then Chris Whitty said that it appears Germany got ahead in testing, hence the lower death rate, which is something that government ministers have been trying hard not to admit. (I remember one minister saying that Germany did more tests, found more cases but "sadly had more deaths" - What?! They have a way lower number of deaths!)
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th April 2020, 10:35 AM   #728
Planigale
Illuminator
 
Planigale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,086
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
If he, or any other head of state, were placed on a ventilator, I wonder if the public would be informed. I could easily see the temptation to downplay severity right up until the point of death.
The Queen is head of state.
Planigale is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th April 2020, 10:41 AM   #729
Planigale
Illuminator
 
Planigale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,086
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I'm watching this Downing Street briefing.

I have appreciated the fact that the government is doing this, but...

...Dominic Raab looks very nervous in this briefing, and is speakingveryfastwithoutverymanypauses while denying that he has any veto power in the cabinet (which seems odd when he was essentially given that power by the PM - is this a constitutional issue that he is trying to tiptoe around?). Also, I like his diplomatic way of saying he is sending his best wishes to his girlfriend and his "whole family" (however many people that may be).

Then Chris Whitty said that it appears Germany got ahead in testing, hence the lower death rate, which is something that government ministers have been trying hard not to admit. (I remember one minister saying that Germany did more tests, found more cases but "sadly had more deaths" - What?! They have a way lower number of deaths!)
Constitutionally no one has a veto, or everyone does in a cabinet government. All cabinet decisions are collective ie unanimous; if you do not agree you resign. All cabinet ministers (including the prime minister) are technically equal as ministers of the crown. The concept of veto does not exist in the UK governmental system, this is something that occurs in the US presidential system.
Planigale is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th April 2020, 10:43 AM   #730
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 21,975
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
If he, or any other head of state, were placed on a ventilator, I wonder if the public would be informed. I could easily see the temptation to downplay severity right up until the point of death.
I cannot see most countries hiding such information, or even trying to. Macron, Merkel, Varadkar, Trudeau for examples. It strikes me as a "cult of personality" measure that would happen in Russia, North Korea, the Philippines, the USA or Britain.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th April 2020, 10:46 AM   #731
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 21,975
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I'm watching this Downing Street briefing.

I have appreciated the fact that the government is doing this, but...

...Dominic Raab looks very nervous in this briefing, and is speakingveryfastwithoutverymanypauses while denying that he has any veto power in the cabinet (which seems odd when he was essentially given that power by the PM - is this a constitutional issue that he is trying to tiptoe around?). Also, I like his diplomatic way of saying he is sending his best wishes to his girlfriend and his "whole family" (however many people that may be).

Then Chris Whitty said that it appears Germany got ahead in testing, hence the lower death rate, which is something that government ministers have been trying hard not to admit. (I remember one minister saying that Germany did more tests, found more cases but "sadly had more deaths" - What?! They have a way lower number of deaths!)
Germany is showing a much shallower modeled infection curve as against the UK.
I think BoJo and UKGov are terrified; 66,000 deaths would be a society changer.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th April 2020, 10:57 AM   #732
crescent
Illuminator
 
crescent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,503
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
...(I remember one minister saying that Germany did more tests, found more cases but "sadly had more deaths" - What?! They have a way lower number of deaths!)
My spitball guess:

Some corona victims don't seem extremely ill for some time, then develop breathing issues and die quickly, within a few hours.

In places where tests are in short supply, such victims are just never tested, they are diagnosed based on signs and symptoms but not test results, or are just never diagnosed.

Germany may be testing more of those victims than other places, they may be getting more posthumous test results in. Depending on how they are reporting the numbers, this may result in Germany reporting cases that other places would not have reported. (we see similar issues here in America, with differences apparent even from one county to another).
crescent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th April 2020, 12:51 PM   #733
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,888
Anyone else concerned that the government is potentially being headed by a man who can't be trusted to organise a booze cruise to Calais (since he apparently had difficulty with the concepts of 'us being an island' and 'we import through ports')?
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th April 2020, 02:17 PM   #734
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 91,463
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Anyone else concerned that the government is potentially being headed by a man who can't be trusted to organise a booze cruise to Calais (since he apparently had difficulty with the concepts of 'us being an island' and 'we import through ports')?

Yes. He was obviously only given this position as Johnson and/or Cummings felt he could never be a threat to Johnson.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th April 2020, 03:15 PM   #735
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 25,243
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
So yes, the BBC should report press releases and official statements by the government. But they should also provide relevant facts that support or question the government’s position. This is the true role of journalism.
They do but not in news bulletins.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th April 2020, 08:20 PM   #736
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 27,142
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Germany is showing a much shallower modeled infection curve as against the UK.
I think BoJo and UKGov are terrified; 66,000 deaths would be a society changer.
Yeah, it certainly looks horrific.

However, this is strange. I looked at Sweden's projection. They predict 134 deaths at the peak (27th April), yet 19 days out and they already reported 114 deaths. That seems to be almost double the projection.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/sweden
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 12:17 AM   #737
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 28,526
Once again the dailymash nail it. This time Dominic Raab is learning about Britain:

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/polit...20200407195259

Quote:
There aren’t any factories

I had this brilliant brainwave – the North. It’s full of cotton mills and factories so they can knock us up all the PPE we need in no time. Bet no-one else has even remembered the North. But I checked, and the factories are all closed, and we import everything? Uh?
Quote:
We import food

There’s loads of farms in Britain, I’ve been past them on trains. But when I gave the order to turn off the tap, stop exports and if Europe suffers so be it, I found out we actually import food? Not just BMWs and Audis? I wish someone had told me all this earlier. Why was it a secret?
It's funny because it's true.....
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 12:26 AM   #738
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 12,029
Long but very informative article about the reaction of both scientific advisors and politicians to the unfolding crisis in the UK:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN21P1VF
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 01:11 AM   #739
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,597
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
....
I think BoJo and UKGov are terrified; 66,000 deaths would be a society changer.
The Tories, who are responsible for Brexit and austerity, which have damaged the NHS (primarily loss of staff and beds), which has then struggled more than it should have to cope with the virus, are themselves going to struggle, especially since Labour now has a more effective leader.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-eu-staff-quit

"More than 10,000 EU nationals have left the NHS since the Brexit referendum, including almost 5,000 nurses. These new figures will add fuel to concerns about a wider staffing crisis.
So far this year more than 3,250 EU staff have left the NHS, according to data released under the Freedom of Information Act"
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic

Last edited by Nessie; 8th April 2020 at 01:12 AM.
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 03:02 AM   #740
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,888
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The Tories, who are responsible for Brexit and austerity, which have damaged the NHS (primarily loss of staff and beds), which has then struggled more than it should have to cope with the virus, are themselves going to struggle, especially since Labour now has a more effective leader.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-eu-staff-quit

"More than 10,000 EU nationals have left the NHS since the Brexit referendum, including almost 5,000 nurses. These new figures will add fuel to concerns about a wider staffing crisis.
So far this year more than 3,250 EU staff have left the NHS, according to data released under the Freedom of Information Act"

You're assuming people will actually blame the people and party responsible rather than voting for the leader of the party responsible because they've be sold the idea that that voting for the Conservative Party is an anti establishment protest vote.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 03:26 AM   #741
Garrison
Philosopher
 
Garrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 5,088
I really have to wonder about the description by Raab of Johnson as a 'fighter', everything I've read about Johnson points to a man who just quits when the going gets tough. Lazy, entitled or dishonest are terms I would associate with Johnson, not fighter.
__________________
So I've started a blog about my writing. Check it out at: http://fourth-planet-problem.blogspot.com/
And my first book is on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077W322FX
Garrison is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 07:00 AM   #742
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,888
Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
I really have to wonder about the description by Raab of Johnson as a 'fighter', everything I've read about Johnson points to a man who just quits when the going gets tough. Lazy, entitled or dishonest are terms I would associate with Johnson, not fighter.
I don't think that's quite right,he has a certain dogged tenacity when it comes to his own interests, otherwise he wouldn't have made it to PM. It's just when it comes to serving the interests of constituents he can't really be bothered.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 07:13 AM   #743
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,888
The Dyson Respirator seems to have gone a bit quiet. Aside from the issue of whether contracts might be directed to doners, I don't understand why at a time when huge numbers of respirators are needed as fast as possible we'd be looking at new designs from non medical companies rather than existing designs that have passed regulatory scrutiny. Is it just me or does anyone else feel there's a touch of Elon Musk's 'cave submarine' to all this?
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 07:16 AM   #744
ceptimus
puzzler
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 6,257
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Long but very informative article about the reaction of both scientific advisors and politicians to the unfolding crisis in the UK:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN21P1VF

It's a good article, but cut-and-paste the names and you could apply it equally to most other countries.

Most countries are on the same COVID-19 trajectory as the UK - some are a few weeks ahead and some a few weeks behind - but that seems to be more down to international travel habits and luck than anything else.

A few countries appear, so far, to have done markedly better - but we don't yet know if that is down to inaccurate reporting of figures (Iran? North Korea?) or whether they have only managed to delay a severe prolonged lockdown rather than avoid it (Japan? Singapore?)

South Korea is currently the best example of how to successfully handle the virus - but even they have had to close schools and impose some other restrictions. It will be interesting to see whether any other countries (Germany?) are able to get back to the low infection level South Korea currently enjoys, and what the countries with those low levels will then have to do to maintain them.
ceptimus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 07:24 AM   #745
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 28,526
Not really politics, but IMO a clear indication that there is a class of people who believe that rules only really apply to the little people:

Quote:
Tottenham manager Jose Mourinho accepts he was in the wrong for holding a one-on-one training session with record signing Tanguy Ndombele in a public park.

Mourinho was pictured on social media flouting UK government rules by meeting the midfielder on Hadley Common on Tuesday.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...ost_type=share
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 07:33 AM   #746
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 27,142
Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
I really have to wonder about the description by Raab of Johnson as a 'fighter', everything I've read about Johnson points to a man who just quits when the going gets tough. Lazy, entitled or dishonest are terms I would associate with Johnson, not fighter.
True, but it would have been pretty astonishing and maybe even bad taste for Dominic Raab to have said at the briefing.

He'll probably save it for the memoirs.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 07:46 AM   #747
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 91,463
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Not really politics, but IMO a clear indication that there is a class of people who believe that rules only really apply to the little people:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...ost_type=share

Hey they are probably very stressed out, some of them have taken a 30% pay cut and can’t even earn money from personal appearances!
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 07:53 AM   #748
dann
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,692
U.S. Now Leads the World in Confirmed Cases (NYT, March 26, 2020)
Coronavirus: US records highest death toll in single day (BBC News, April 8, 2020)
"We're gonna win so much, you may even get tired of winning!"
And nobody can claim that it wasn't due to Trump's performance.
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 08:37 AM   #749
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 28,123
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
The Dyson Respirator seems to have gone a bit quiet. Aside from the issue of whether contracts might be directed to doners, I don't understand why at a time when huge numbers of respirators are needed as fast as possible we'd be looking at new designs from non medical companies rather than existing designs that have passed regulatory scrutiny. Is it just me or does anyone else feel there's a touch of Elon Musk's 'cave submarine' to all this?
Would it help your understanding if I told you that Dyson was a huge donor to the Tory party?
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 08:59 AM   #750
Doghouse Reilly
Adrift on an uncharted sea
 
Doghouse Reilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,325
Cnn reports today that the cdc is already beginning to revise downward their expected US death toll. Now saying 82,000.
Doghouse Reilly is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 09:14 AM   #751
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 32,296
Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
I really have to wonder about the description by Raab of Johnson as a 'fighter', everything I've read about Johnson points to a man who just quits when the going gets tough.

Not always, sometimes he hides in fridges.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 09:32 AM   #752
GlennB
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arcadia, Greece
Posts: 26,024
People like Raab are talking Johnson up so that when he recovers from this illness he'll be seen as some kind of hero, one that 'beat' covid-19. Welcome to several more years of Tory rule under Boris Johnson.
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut
GlennB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 10:23 AM   #753
Arcade22
Philosopher
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6,309
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Is there any reason to believe this is true?
He's already dead.
__________________
We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr

And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 10:28 AM   #754
Arcade22
Philosopher
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6,309
He's dead (until proven otherwise) but at least he's "sitting up in bed". They propped him up so that even in death he can give the impression of being in control and ordering his underlings around. He was just that strong of a leader, always in charge leading from the front.
__________________
We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr

And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann

Last edited by Arcade22; 8th April 2020 at 10:29 AM.
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 10:29 AM   #755
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 91,463
Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly View Post
Cnn reports today that the cdc is already beginning to revise downward their expected US death toll. Now saying 82,000.

Links?
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 10:54 AM   #756
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 25,443
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Hey they are probably very stressed out, some of them have taken a 30% pay cut and can’t even earn money from personal appearances!
Along with crushing of real estate agents & car salesmen, the disappearance of hordes of tourists, the immediate reduction in road deaths, and the drop in pollution, sports stars making less money is another positive benefit.

Meanwhile, Esport geeks have found a niche!

You can even bet on it.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 11:13 AM   #757
Doghouse Reilly
Adrift on an uncharted sea
 
Doghouse Reilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,325
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Links?
I heard it on the news, this is all I can find online, in this article the CDC rep is quoted as saying the death toll will be much, much lower.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...uch_lower.html
Doghouse Reilly is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 12:24 PM   #758
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,888
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Would it help your understanding if I told you that Dyson was a huge donor to the Tory party?
Not really since I mentioned that aspect. They've got remarkable media coverage for not actually doing anything though.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 12:27 PM   #759
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,888
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
He's dead (until proven otherwise) but at least he's "sitting up in bed". They propped him up so that even in death he can give the impression of being in control and ordering his underlings around. He was just that strong of a leader, always in charge leading from the front.
Queue several balls of string, some small pulleys and all sorts of corpse related hijynx. Welcome to "Weekend at Johnsons".
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2020, 01:04 PM   #760
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 21,975
Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
It's a good article, but cut-and-paste the names and you could apply it equally to most other countries.
Really? Name two.

Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Most countries are on the same COVID-19 trajectory as the UK
Bollocks. Compare this and this, for example. The UK is projected to have more deaths than Germany, France and Italy combined.
66,000 death compared to 8,800, 20,000 and 15,000 respectively.

Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
- some are a few weeks ahead and some a few weeks behind - but that seems to be more down to international travel habits and luck than anything else.
No. And again no. Every country is not on the same course.

Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
A few countries appear, so far, to have done markedly better - but we don't yet know if that is down to inaccurate reporting of figures (Iran? North Korea?) or whether they have only managed to delay a severe prolonged lockdown rather than avoid it (Japan? Singapore?)
Actually we, in the sense of statisticians and epidemiologists have an excellent idea.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 12.


Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
South Korea is currently the best example of how to successfully handle the virus - but even they have had to close schools and impose some other restrictions. It will be interesting to see whether any other countries (Germany?) are able to get back to the low infection level South Korea currently enjoys, and what the countries with those low levels will then have to do to maintain them.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

Last edited by zooterkin; 12th April 2020 at 11:48 AM.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:55 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.