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Old Today, 06:48 AM   #721
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by BBC News
A spokesman said Mr Johnson, 55, was stable overnight, is being given oxygen and is not on a ventilator...

In a statement on Tuesday, a Downing Street spokesman said: "The prime minister has been stable overnight and remains in good spirits. He is receiving standard oxygen treatment and is breathing without any other assistance....
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52201048
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Old Today, 06:49 AM   #722
SuburbanTurkey
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Is there any reason to believe this is true?
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Old Today, 07:50 AM   #723
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
So yes, the BBC should report press releases and official statements by the government. But they should also provide relevant facts that support or question the government’s position. This is the true role of journalism.
News bulletins do the former, programmes like Panorama do the latter.
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Old Today, 08:59 AM   #724
Darat
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Based on what other information? How can you know the truthfulness of what the government is saying unless news outlets also rigorously analyze the official government statements and provide a broader perspective?

But is your argument that the BBC, supported by taxes, is not a real news agency and is really just another arm of government? And must therefore be some completely bland conduit of whatever is fed them? Their reputation in the past in the USA is far higher. And people deserve more from their taxes IMHO.

So yes, the BBC should report press releases and official statements by the government. But they should also provide relevant facts that support or question the government’s position. This is the true role of journalism.

Nope my point is that news reports should report the news. Part of that news will be reporting on what the government is saying. That is not being a mouth piece for the government it is reporting what is happening. There is nothing to stop the news report to also cover what (for example) the opposition has to say about a government statement.

Other aspects of the BBC news departments do fantastic work in investigative journalism and reporting on that, often to the embarrassment of governments and people in power.

In summary news REPORTS should be about the actual news not editorial content about that news, that belongs in other programmes.
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Old Today, 09:04 AM   #725
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Is there any reason to believe this is true?

They are obviously being very careful on how they are wording things, but I consider that is being dishonest in this type of situation. They have been avoiding for example saying that he is critically ill, which is the only reason he would have been moved to a ICU. They report it as him being stable over night, that actually means there has been no improvement in his conditions, so he remains critically ill.

So they are being careful to not directly lie but not being honest.
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Old Today, 09:12 AM   #726
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What does Britain know about coronavirus that the rest of Europe doesn't? (CNN, March 14, 2020)
Nothing at all, apparently ...
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Old Today, 09:14 AM   #727
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
They are obviously being very careful on how they are wording things, but I consider that is being dishonest in this type of situation. They have been avoiding for example saying that he is critically ill, which is the only reason he would have been moved to a ICU. They report it as him being stable over night, that actually means there has been no improvement in his conditions, so he remains critically ill.

So they are being careful to not directly lie but not being honest.
If he, or any other head of state, were placed on a ventilator, I wonder if the public would be informed. I could easily see the temptation to downplay severity right up until the point of death.
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Old Today, 09:34 AM   #728
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I'm watching this Downing Street briefing.

I have appreciated the fact that the government is doing this, but...

...Dominic Raab looks very nervous in this briefing, and is speakingveryfastwithoutverymanypauses while denying that he has any veto power in the cabinet (which seems odd when he was essentially given that power by the PM - is this a constitutional issue that he is trying to tiptoe around?). Also, I like his diplomatic way of saying he is sending his best wishes to his girlfriend and his "whole family" (however many people that may be).

Then Chris Whitty said that it appears Germany got ahead in testing, hence the lower death rate, which is something that government ministers have been trying hard not to admit. (I remember one minister saying that Germany did more tests, found more cases but "sadly had more deaths" - What?! They have a way lower number of deaths!)
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Old Today, 10:35 AM   #729
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
If he, or any other head of state, were placed on a ventilator, I wonder if the public would be informed. I could easily see the temptation to downplay severity right up until the point of death.
The Queen is head of state.
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Old Today, 10:41 AM   #730
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I'm watching this Downing Street briefing.

I have appreciated the fact that the government is doing this, but...

...Dominic Raab looks very nervous in this briefing, and is speakingveryfastwithoutverymanypauses while denying that he has any veto power in the cabinet (which seems odd when he was essentially given that power by the PM - is this a constitutional issue that he is trying to tiptoe around?). Also, I like his diplomatic way of saying he is sending his best wishes to his girlfriend and his "whole family" (however many people that may be).

Then Chris Whitty said that it appears Germany got ahead in testing, hence the lower death rate, which is something that government ministers have been trying hard not to admit. (I remember one minister saying that Germany did more tests, found more cases but "sadly had more deaths" - What?! They have a way lower number of deaths!)
Constitutionally no one has a veto, or everyone does in a cabinet government. All cabinet decisions are collective ie unanimous; if you do not agree you resign. All cabinet ministers (including the prime minister) are technically equal as ministers of the crown. The concept of veto does not exist in the UK governmental system, this is something that occurs in the US presidential system.
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Old Today, 10:43 AM   #731
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
If he, or any other head of state, were placed on a ventilator, I wonder if the public would be informed. I could easily see the temptation to downplay severity right up until the point of death.
I cannot see most countries hiding such information, or even trying to. Macron, Merkel, Varadkar, Trudeau for examples. It strikes me as a "cult of personality" measure that would happen in Russia, North Korea, the Philippines, the USA or Britain.
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Old Today, 10:46 AM   #732
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I'm watching this Downing Street briefing.

I have appreciated the fact that the government is doing this, but...

...Dominic Raab looks very nervous in this briefing, and is speakingveryfastwithoutverymanypauses while denying that he has any veto power in the cabinet (which seems odd when he was essentially given that power by the PM - is this a constitutional issue that he is trying to tiptoe around?). Also, I like his diplomatic way of saying he is sending his best wishes to his girlfriend and his "whole family" (however many people that may be).

Then Chris Whitty said that it appears Germany got ahead in testing, hence the lower death rate, which is something that government ministers have been trying hard not to admit. (I remember one minister saying that Germany did more tests, found more cases but "sadly had more deaths" - What?! They have a way lower number of deaths!)
Germany is showing a much shallower modeled infection curve as against the UK.
I think BoJo and UKGov are terrified; 66,000 deaths would be a society changer.
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Old Today, 10:57 AM   #733
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
...(I remember one minister saying that Germany did more tests, found more cases but "sadly had more deaths" - What?! They have a way lower number of deaths!)
My spitball guess:

Some corona victims don't seem extremely ill for some time, then develop breathing issues and die quickly, within a few hours.

In places where tests are in short supply, such victims are just never tested, they are diagnosed based on signs and symptoms but not test results, or are just never diagnosed.

Germany may be testing more of those victims than other places, they may be getting more posthumous test results in. Depending on how they are reporting the numbers, this may result in Germany reporting cases that other places would not have reported. (we see similar issues here in America, with differences apparent even from one county to another).
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Old Today, 12:51 PM   #734
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Anyone else concerned that the government is potentially being headed by a man who can't be trusted to organise a booze cruise to Calais (since he apparently had difficulty with the concepts of 'us being an island' and 'we import through ports')?
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Old Today, 02:17 PM   #735
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Anyone else concerned that the government is potentially being headed by a man who can't be trusted to organise a booze cruise to Calais (since he apparently had difficulty with the concepts of 'us being an island' and 'we import through ports')?

Yes. He was obviously only given this position as Johnson and/or Cummings felt he could never be a threat to Johnson.
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Old Today, 03:15 PM   #736
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
So yes, the BBC should report press releases and official statements by the government. But they should also provide relevant facts that support or question the government’s position. This is the true role of journalism.
They do but not in news bulletins.
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