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Tags atheism , epicureanism , hedonism , nihilism , philosophy , stoicism

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Old 28th December 2016, 03:30 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
That's four words.

My philosophy in just seven words: Sometimes you have to be a dick.
You sir or madam...can make like a tree and split.
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Old 1st January 2017, 06:23 AM   #122
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I never got the "extraordinary" thing either. Just plain any-old evidence will do, equal to that accepted in the sciences.
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Old 4th May 2017, 08:58 PM   #123
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How to Live Well--My Philosophy of Life

Over the past decade, I have formulated my philosophy of life. It has been a personally beneficial exercise, and I hope that you benefit from reading it.

A brief summary and link to the full document may be found here:

http://philosofer123.wordpress.com

I am posting my philosophy here in order to solicit feedback so that it may be improved. I look forward to a constructive discussion.
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Old 4th May 2017, 09:04 PM   #124
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Well, I'll go first - your philosophy is very boring to read.

My whilosophy, on the other hand, is made up of quotes from the movie Say Anything.
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Old 4th May 2017, 09:12 PM   #125
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The 4th time is the charm?

Here are the previous three attempts:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=315183

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=302131

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=269159
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Old 4th May 2017, 09:17 PM   #126
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Nice of you to share that. How is it working out for you in practice, as opposed to the abstract?
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Old 4th May 2017, 09:35 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Nice of you to share that. How is it working out for you in practice, as opposed to the abstract?
My pleasure, marplots. It is working quite well, in that I enjoy peace of mind most of the time.
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Old 4th May 2017, 09:43 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Philosofer123 View Post
My pleasure, marplots. It is working quite well, in that I enjoy peace of mind most of the time.
Then the exercise has produced the best possible result.

I take it you agree with Socrates about "the unexamined life is not worth living?"
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Old 4th May 2017, 09:49 PM   #129
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My reply remains the same:

My life philosophy in just five words: Don't be a dick.
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Old 4th May 2017, 10:00 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
I take it you agree with Socrates about "the unexamined life is not worth living?"
Not necessarily. At least in theory, one may enjoy peace of mind without examining one's life.
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Old 5th May 2017, 01:15 AM   #131
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Does your life philosophy include spamming the same thread over and over in the hopes we will give you the answers (or perhaps admiration?) you think you deserve?

I get that you forgot that you had already postes this same thread here three times before. It's hard to keep track if you plaster links to your website all over the internet.

Is there anything specific you'd like to discuss? Because most people will not be inclined to slough through 14 pages of proselytizing to see if there's something we might like to ask you.
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Old 5th May 2017, 01:45 AM   #132
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I'm sure it's deep and fascinating but my philosophy is don't read spam.
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Old 5th May 2017, 01:53 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
My life philosophy in just five words: Don't be a dick.
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Old 5th May 2017, 02:06 AM   #134
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I tend to agree with your philosophical positions, although I do question the utility of this one:

Quote:
Ultimate responsibility impossibilism is the view that one cannot be ultimately responsible for any of one’s actions
While I think it's true that you can't be ultimately responsible for your actions, I also don't think that acting as if that's true is useful or healthy, in the same way that Solipsism is a position that it's impossible to refute, but you're best served by acting as if things separate from yourself exist.

It's the word "ultimately" that is, I think, where the idea stumbles. Because it doesn't matter whether or not you're ultimately responsible for your actions. From a societal point of view you can't treat people as if they are entirely separate from their actions (unless they truly are not responsible for their actions, because of some form of mental illness, etc.), and from an individual point of view it does nobody any good to abdicate total responsibility for your actions, to exculpate yourself from them.

And even if you're not ultimately responsible for your actions, you can be responsible for a large part of them. As you say, your actions are in part down to your state of mind. But you couldn't say "the best way to go about living well is to aim for the achievement and maintenance of one’s peace of mind" unless you believed that you have some degree of control over your state of mind. And we know that people do, or at least can, have that kind of control. Anger management classes work, to use one example.

But, yeah, on the whole, I agree with you. Mind you, the fact that your philosophy boils down to "God probably doesn't exist, but you should strive to be nice to yourself and to other people and that'll probably make you happy" means that it's not exactly ground-breaking and probably doesn't require several pages of a pdf to convey.
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Old 5th May 2017, 02:23 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Well, I'll go first - your philosophy is very boring to read.

My whilosophy, on the other hand, is made up of quotes from the movie Say Anything.
Mine is made of you quotes from Fargo.
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Old 5th May 2017, 03:03 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
While I think it's true that you can't be ultimately responsible for your actions, I also don't think that acting as if that's true is useful or healthy
Why not?

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
It's the word "ultimately" that is, I think, where the idea stumbles. Because it doesn't matter whether or not you're ultimately responsible for your actions.
Sure it does: it renders irrational a number of negative emotions (see bottom of page 6), so it is quite therapeutic.

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
From a societal point of view you can't treat people as if they are entirely separate from their actions (unless they truly are not responsible for their actions, because of some form of mental illness, etc.)
Not being ultimately responsible for one's actions is not the same as being "entirely separate" from one's actions.

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
and from an individual point of view it does nobody any good to abdicate total responsibility for your actions, to exculpate yourself from them
As discussed on the top of page 7, apologizing, attempting to rectify the situation, etc. are not incompatible with ultimate responsibility impossibilism.

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
But you couldn't say "the best way to go about living well is to aim for the achievement and maintenance of one’s peace of mind" unless you believed that you have some degree of control over your state of mind. And we know that people do, or at least can, have that kind of control. Anger management classes work, to use one example.
Ultimate responsibility impossibilism is perfectly compatible with using the methods discussed in the document to achieve and maintain peace of mind.

Last edited by Philosofer123; 5th May 2017 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 5th May 2017, 04:19 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Philosofer123 View Post
Why not?
Because then you can exculpate yourself from anything and, equally, you can't hold anybody else responsible for anything.

Quote:
Sure it does: it renders irrational a number of negative emotions (see bottom of page 6), so it is quite therapeutic.
All emotions are irrational.

Quote:
Not being ultimately responsible for one's actions is not the same as being "entirely separate" from one's actions.
Rather my point, I think.

Quote:
As discussed on the top of page 7, apologizing, attempting to rectify the situation, etc. are not incompatible with ultimate responsibility impossibilism.
In other words, you're saying the same thing that I am - that you should act as if you are responsible for your own actions.

Quote:
Ultimate responsibility impossibilism is perfectly compatible with using the methods discussed in the document to achieve and maintain peace of mind.
That's what I said.
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Old 5th May 2017, 05:07 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Because then you can exculpate yourself from anything and, equally, you can't hold anybody else responsible for anything.
So what?

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
All emotions are irrational.
Emotions based on false beliefs are irrational in a way that emotions based on true beliefs are not.

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Rather my point, I think.
No, your point was exactly the opposite.

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
In other words, you're saying the same thing that I am - that you should act as if you are responsible for your own actions.
Nowhere do I say that.

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
That's what I said.
No, it is a point against what you said.
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Old 5th May 2017, 06:00 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Philosofer123 View Post
So what?
That means you have a license to do anything and cannot act against people who have wronged you or people you care about. It also means, on a societal level, that you cannot have any punitive system, as it would be immoral to punish people for actions for which they were not responsible.

Quote:
Emotions based on false beliefs are irrational in a way that emotions based on true beliefs are not.
All emotions are irrational. They're explicable and often predictable, but they're not rational.

Quote:
No, your point was exactly the opposite.
It really wasn't.

Quote:
Nowhere do I say that.
Sure you do. If you are attempting to make amends for something that you have done, then you are accepting responsibility for your actions.

Quote:
No, it is a point against what you said.
How is saying that it's possible to take responsibility for your actions while believing that you are ultimately not responsible for them a point against the proposition that it's possible to take responsibility for your actions while believing that you are ultimately not responsible for them?
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Old 5th May 2017, 06:33 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
That means you have a license to do anything and cannot act against people who have wronged you or people you care about.
I don't think it follows that he gets "a license to do anything." Whatever mechanism removes the responsibility also constrains the resulting behaviors.

Quote:
It also means, on a societal level, that you cannot have any punitive system, as it would be immoral to punish people for actions for which they were not responsible.
I don't think this follows either. While the concept of "blameworthy" might go away, I can certainly act against any flaw I recognize in the antisocial. For example, I wouldn't say my car's poor gas mileage is something I can blame the car for (or say the car is "responsible"), but I can certainly act to repair the car or take its flaws into consideration in the way I treat it.
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Old 5th May 2017, 08:04 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
That means you have a license to do anything and cannot act against people who have wronged you or people you care about. It also means, on a societal level, that you cannot have any punitive system, as it would be immoral to punish people for actions for which they were not responsible.
None of that follows from ultimate responsibility impossibilism.

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
All emotions are irrational. They're explicable and often predictable, but they're not rational.
You missed my point.

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
It really wasn't.
Yes it was.

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Sure you do. If you are attempting to make amends for something that you have done, then you are accepting responsibility for your actions.
Not necessarily.

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
How is saying that it's possible to take responsibility for your actions while believing that you are ultimately not responsible for them a point against the proposition that it's possible to take responsibility for your actions while believing that you are ultimately not responsible for them?
That was not your original proposition, and that was not my original response.
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Old 6th May 2017, 12:02 AM   #142
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Making numerous threads on the same thing and asking numerous times that you wish discussion on this topic, you sure are quite laconic with your responses.
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Old 6th May 2017, 02:14 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Philosofer123 View Post
None of that follows from ultimate responsibility impossibilism.
Then why when I first mentioned it did you say "so what?" rather than argue against it?

Quote:
You missed my point.
I responded to what you said. If you meant to say something else, then please elaborate.

Quote:
Yes it was.
No it wasn't.

Your turn.

Quote:
Not necessarily.
You're doing exactly what I said you'd have to do - acting as if you have responsibility for your actions.

Quote:
That was not your original proposition, and that was not my original response.
Yes it is.: "While I think it's true that you can't be ultimately responsible for your actions, I also don't think that acting as if that's true is useful or healthy, in the same way that Solipsism is a position that it's impossible to refute, but you're best served by acting as if things separate from yourself exist"

You know, for someone who keeps reposting this screed year-in, year-out, you're remarkably reluctant to engage in an actual conversation about it. Do you actually want to discuss it, or do you only post in the hopes of finding people who will tell you that you're right and clever?
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Old 6th May 2017, 02:19 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
I don't think it follows that he gets "a license to do anything."
Sure it does. If you're not responsible for your own actions, then you can't be held responsible for any of your actions. Not morally, at least. Nothing you do can be deemed to be your fault.

Quote:
Whatever mechanism removes the responsibility also constrains the resulting behaviors.
Can you be more specific?

Quote:
I don't think this follows either. While the concept of "blameworthy" might go away, I can certainly act against any flaw I recognize in the antisocial. For example, I wouldn't say my car's poor gas mileage is something I can blame the car for (or say the car is "responsible"), but I can certainly act to repair the car or take its flaws into consideration in the way I treat it.
You wouldn't be taking punitive action against your car, though, would you?
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Old 6th May 2017, 03:13 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Sure it does. If you're not responsible for your own actions, then you can't be held responsible for any of your actions. Not morally, at least. Nothing you do can be deemed to be your fault.
Nor to your credit. The lack of agency renders it morally neutral.

Quote:
Can you be more specific?
I was trying to point out that whatever it is that runs the show - constrains my behavior, robot-style - also limits what I can do. I'm not free to "do anything," so long as those limits exist. I do not think you mean "random," do you?

Let's say we are constrained biologically to care about our kin (the usual idea). If I have no choice in the matter, I will care about my kin above others. There's some arrangement of my brain cells demanding I do so. But that also means I am no longer free to do the opposite - the same mechanism that drives the show creates the script for that show and not another.

Quote:
You wouldn't be taking punitive action against your car, though, would you?
What's in a name? I wouldn't call it punitive action, but I might call it "corrective." For instance, in humans, punishment might serve a teaching role - "Lesson learned, your Honor."

The point is, we can have all the prison we have now, without the moral baggage.
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Old 6th May 2017, 04:21 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Then why when I first mentioned it did you say "so what?" rather than argue against it?

I responded to what you said. If you meant to say something else, then please elaborate.

No it wasn't.

Your turn.

You're doing exactly what I said you'd have to do - acting as if you have responsibility for your actions.

Yes it is.: "While I think it's true that you can't be ultimately responsible for your actions, I also don't think that acting as if that's true is useful or healthy, in the same way that Solipsism is a position that it's impossible to refute, but you're best served by acting as if things separate from yourself exist"

You know, for someone who keeps reposting this screed year-in, year-out, you're remarkably reluctant to engage in an actual conversation about it. Do you actually want to discuss it, or do you only post in the hopes of finding people who will tell you that you're right and clever?
We're making no progress. This concludes our discussion.

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Old 6th May 2017, 04:43 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Nor to your credit. The lack of agency renders it morally neutral.
Agreed.

Quote:
I was trying to point out that whatever it is that runs the show - constrains my behavior, robot-style - also limits what I can do. I'm not free to "do anything," so long as those limits exist. I do not think you mean "random," do you?
I don't mean random. I mean that you morally cannot be held accountable for your actions.

Quote:
The point is, we can have all the prison we have now, without the moral baggage.
Most (all?) justice systems in the world are based on the idea that the person being tried is responsible for their actions. This is why there are specific pleas that exculpate people from crimes - certain kinds of mental illness being the most obvious example. If everybody is exculpated from everything then there is no justification for treating anybody on trial differently from people who would be exculpated due to said mental illnesses.
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Old 6th May 2017, 04:44 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Philosofer123 View Post
We're making no progress. This concludes our discussion.
"Only post in the hopes of finding people who will tell you that you're right and clever, rather than through any desire to actually discuss it" it is, then.
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Old 6th May 2017, 05:41 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Most (all?) justice systems in the world are based on the idea that the person being tried is responsible for their actions. This is why there are specific pleas that exculpate people from crimes - certain kinds of mental illness being the most obvious example. If everybody is exculpated from everything then there is no justification for treating anybody on trial differently from people who would be exculpated due to said mental illnesses.
Yes, that's the system which results. The idea of blameworthy goes away. However, that doesn't mean much or anything has to change in practice. We do, after all, detain the mentally ill. Heck, we even restrain dogs if we think they may be violent without having to layer moral frosting over it as justification.

Suppose I have a computer with a faulty chip. I go in, replace the chip and BINGO, back to normal.

Suppose I have a person with something miswired in their head. I go in, straighten out the problem and BINGO, back to normal. No need to punish either.

But suppose I cannot fix the person with the faulty wiring directly. Then, I might consider punishment and incarceration to remove them from society and try to alter their behavior. Maybe it works, maybe not.

In any case, no morality or sense of responsibility had to be invoked to draw the picture above.
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Old 6th May 2017, 05:51 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Yes, that's the system which results. The idea of blameworthy goes away. However, that doesn't mean much or anything has to change in practice.
That's exactly what I've been saying - that the idea of not being ultimately responsible for your actions (due to belief in a deterministic universe, or whatever) isn't a useful idea and that you still have to act as if people are responsible for their actions.
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Old 6th May 2017, 09:59 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by Philosofer123 View Post
We're making no progress. This concludes our discussion.

Perhaps things will improve in 18 monts when you've added another two pages to your opus and you again deign to visit. One can only hope.


I'll check back then.
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Old 6th May 2017, 10:36 AM   #152
The Norseman
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Originally Posted by Philosofer123 View Post
We're making no progress. This concludes our discussion.
Well, I now fully understand what your purpose here is and that any further attempt at interaction is futile.
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Old 6th May 2017, 03:06 PM   #153
marplots
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
That's exactly what I've been saying - that the idea of not being ultimately responsible for your actions (due to belief in a deterministic universe, or whatever) isn't a useful idea and that you still have to act as if people are responsible for their actions.
The difference comes in when I seek solutions. As far as I know, one's moral compass isn't a thing we think re-settable. I don't hear talk about turning a bad man into a good one (except maybe when a fictitious God turns the sinner into the saint). On the other hand, if it's set somehow in biology/psychology, we are free to find a cure.

Another difference is in appealing to a sense of justice, a la revenge. The idea of some Karmic balance goes away too. A machine that has been repaired doesn't suffer the same sense of "historical wrongs" we attach to human crimes. The idea of enduring "taint" goes away.

As the punchline says:
"...but you have sex with one sheep..."
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Old 6th May 2017, 03:26 PM   #154
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
The difference comes in when I seek solutions. As far as I know, one's moral compass isn't a thing we think re-settable. I don't hear talk about turning a bad man into a good one (except maybe when a fictitious God turns the sinner into the saint). On the other hand, if it's set somehow in biology/psychology, we are free to find a cure.
Perhaps it's just me being stupid, but I don't get how any of that is relevant to anything I've said.

Quote:
Another difference is in appealing to a sense of justice, a la revenge.
The justice system is predicated on the idea of justice, and supposedly already isn't predicated on revenge.
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Old 23rd March 2020, 04:27 PM   #155
Philosofer123
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My Philosophy of Life

Over the past decade, I have formulated my philosophy of life. It is my guide to living well.

You may find a brief summary and link to the full 13-page document here:

http://philosofer123.wordpress.com

I am posting this in order to solicit feedback so that my document may be improved. I welcome any constructive feedback you may have.
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Old 23rd March 2020, 05:46 PM   #156
I Am The Scum
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This is now the fourth time you've posted this thread. You can stop.
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Old 23rd March 2020, 05:56 PM   #157
p0lka
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Are you ten?

I mean, most people formulate their philosophy of life over their lifetime, are you saying you haven't?

Last edited by p0lka; 23rd March 2020 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 23rd March 2020, 05:58 PM   #158
Craig4
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Originally Posted by Philosofer123 View Post
Over the past decade, I have formulated my philosophy of life. It is my guide to living well.

You may find a brief summary and link to the full 13-page document here:

http://philosofer123.wordpress.com

I am posting this in order to solicit feedback so that my document may be improved. I welcome any constructive feedback you may have.
What's the status of your relationships? Happily married? Alone? Long term committed? Have a family? Part of a large non-traditional family? Some combination there of?

How are your finances? Are you wealthy, poor, comfortable, happily living within modest means?

How is your career? Are you on a good upward directory? Stuck in a dead end job? Hit a plateau? Successfully self-employed? Living in your mom's basement with no prospects?
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Old 23rd March 2020, 06:06 PM   #159
Philosofer123
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
What's the status of your relationships? Happily married? Alone? Long term committed? Have a family? Part of a large non-traditional family? Some combination there of?
Married with one child.

Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
How are your finances? Are you wealthy, poor, comfortable, happily living within modest means?
Comfortable.

Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
How is your career? Are you on a good upward directory? Stuck in a dead end job? Hit a plateau? Successfully self-employed? Living in your mom's basement with no prospects?
Retired.
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Old 23rd March 2020, 06:54 PM   #160
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by Philosofer123 View Post
We're making no progress. This concludes our discussion.
Originally Posted by Philosofer123 View Post
Over the past decade, I have formulated my philosophy of life. It is my guide to living well.

You may find a brief summary and link to the full 13-page document here:

http://philosofer123.wordpress.com

I am posting this in order to solicit feedback so that my document may be improved. I welcome any constructive feedback you may have.
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