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Tags FOTL , Freeman on the Land , Rob Menard

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Old 4th February 2013, 02:56 PM   #1
ComfySlippers
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Rob Menard's FOTL Claims II

Mod InfoThis is a continuation of this thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=176799

The original thread was closed due to size. For continuity of discussion, the last 3 pages were split from the original thread and appear here.
Posted By:Locknar


Originally Posted by LordEd View Post
Is there documented proof showing that there is a link between Menard and Thatcher?

July 8, 2011:

Quote:
Thatcher had his first run-in with the law in Kamloops in 2007, which cost him four days in jail, she said. After that, he had a conversation with well-known freeman Robert Menard, who sold him an $800 document that indicated how he could fight the law more effectively.
Link#

ETA: It must be noted that after Menard had conned Lance out of $800, in order to "empower Lance to fight the law more effectively", and after Lance had been sent to a psychiatric ward then prison, Menard distanced himself and played the usual "I sold the rubbish but it's not my fault it was believed" filth.

There are 230 pages here devoted to exposing Menard as a conman.
Not that discussion is even necessary, he's so damned awful at being a conman that it's now just a comedy show.

Last edited by Locknar; 14th February 2013 at 08:16 AM.
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Old 4th February 2013, 03:00 PM   #2
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In a thread discussing Thatcher in jail Menard claims that he is assisting him but a refund is not necessary:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=313


ETA Strangely some of Menard's posts in that thread have now disappeared.

Last edited by Stacey Grove; 4th February 2013 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 4th February 2013, 03:02 PM   #3
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http://ca.news.yahoo.com/penny-stops...183826288.html

Here Robert, now's your chance to start digging down the back of everyones sofas you doss on.
Don't miss out on the potential lost revenue.

Quote:
Some businesses, including Tim Hortons, have posted signs informing customers of the change.
Then again, you probably know all about it.
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Old 4th February 2013, 03:04 PM   #4
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Clear external links of evidence and it didn't take years.

Were any of you in terror that I would attempt to destroy you on failure to answer these questions?
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Old 4th February 2013, 03:16 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by LordEd View Post
Clear external links of evidence and it didn't take years.

Were any of you in terror that I would attempt to destroy you on failure to answer these questions?

Yes. Terrified. Menard and his cupboard full of socks terrify everyone.

The only thing terrifying about Menard is his absolute stupidity.

/NoteToMods - He is no longer a JREF member.
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Old 4th February 2013, 03:23 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by LordEd View Post

Were any of you in terror that I would attempt to destroy you on failure to answer these questions?
Not at all.
You asked a question I gave an answer.

Your imagination is running riot.
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Old 4th February 2013, 03:32 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by ComfySlippers View Post
There are 230 pages here devoted to exposing Menard as a conman.
Not that discussion is even necessary, he's so damned awful at being a conman that it's now just a comedy show.
True, which makes it very difficult to find the information. Since Thatcher is in the news, it seemed relevant to ensure there was a solid link between him and Rob.

Is there anything where Rob indicates what went 'wrong'? I see you can find a series of stories where it documents his loss including loss of freedom and house due to his beliefs.

I wonder what answers a freeman board would provide to these questions?
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Old 4th February 2013, 03:34 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by LordEd View Post

I wonder what answers a freeman board would provide to these questions?
The best way for you to find out is to go to one.
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Old 4th February 2013, 03:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
The best way for you to find out is to go to one.
Good luck in finding one.
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Old 4th February 2013, 03:52 PM   #10
ComfySlippers
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Originally Posted by LordEd View Post
...Is there anything where Rob indicates what went 'wrong'? ...I see you can find a series of stories where it documents his loss including loss of freedom and house due to his beliefs.

I wonder what answers a freeman board would provide to these questions?
From DIf, before Menard was banned for posting fraudulent claims:

Quote:
Lance is a grown man, and follows not my advice, but his own path. But that truth does not allow you to denigrate me, which is your ONLY goal here on this forum, and has been since day one. It also highlights how YOU personally cannot seem to grasp the concept of personal responsibility. Do you think that people are under my spell, and are mindless automatons incapable of forming their own opinions and decisions? That is the only thing which could support your position. Now that Lance has been found fit for trial, you can't blame me for selling to someone who is unwell, can you? So if he is not unwell, or well enough to stand trial, is he not well enough to form his own opinions and beliefs? Is he not well enough to be responsible for his own actions? If he is, why do you seek to put this on me?
ETA: FOTL-Waffle-101; Always answer with a string of childish questions that make you look like a moron.

ETA2: Hadn't read that for long while. Not just a conman but a despicable low-life who will con any gullible or vulnerable person if it pays for his drugs and beer.

Last edited by ComfySlippers; 4th February 2013 at 04:05 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 4th February 2013, 03:58 PM   #11
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also
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=476
Quote:
What makes you think that he is following my advice and did not make his own decisions? What makes you think the words I spoke to him, which you are not a party to, qualify as advice, or that he is following my suggestions, or that what I did suggest was wrong? Considering you are fully and completely in the dark on what was said, HOW CAN YOU EVEN CLAIM WHAT I SAID WAS WRONG? OR THAT HE IS 'FOLLOWING' IT?

Based on my memory of what I told him, he is not following a path I described at all. As a matter of fact, him being on probation and breaching that goes directly against the things I have taught. It is a breach of an agreement. But that truth does not allow you to place blame on me, so you reject it even though it makes far more sense.
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Old 4th February 2013, 04:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Quote:
What makes you think that he is following my advice and did not make his own decisions? What makes you think the words I spoke to him, which you are not a party to, qualify as advice, or that he is following my suggestions, or that what I did suggest was wrong? Considering you are fully and completely in the dark on what was said, HOW CAN YOU EVEN CLAIM WHAT I SAID WAS WRONG? OR THAT HE IS 'FOLLOWING' IT?

Based on my memory of what I told him, he is not following a path I described at all. As a matter of fact, him being on probation and breaching that goes directly against the things I have taught. It is a breach of an agreement. But that truth does not allow you to place blame on me, so you reject it even though it makes far more sense.
Ah. All sorted. So you refunded the $800 Rob?
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Old 4th February 2013, 05:44 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by LordEd View Post
Clear external links of evidence and it didn't take years.

Were any of you in terror that I would attempt to destroy you on failure to answer these questions?
Petrified.
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Old 4th February 2013, 07:20 PM   #14
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Is there a law in Canada against taking advantage of mentally disturbed people?
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Old 4th February 2013, 11:33 PM   #15
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I hope not , Menard may have a case against us.
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Old 5th February 2013, 08:11 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by LordEd View Post
Clear external links of evidence and it didn't take years.

Were any of you in terror that I would attempt to destroy you on failure to answer these questions?
Originally Posted by ComfySlippers View Post
From DIf, before Menard was banned for posting fraudulent claims:

"Lance is a grown man, and follows not my advice, but his own path. But that truth does not allow you to denigrate me, which is your ONLY goal here on this forum, and has been since day one. It also highlights how YOU personally cannot seem to grasp the concept of personal responsibility. Do you think that people are under my spell, and are mindless automatons incapable of forming their own opinions and decisions? That is the only thing which could support your position. Now that Lance has been found fit for trial, you can't blame me for selling to someone who is unwell, can you? So if he is not unwell, or well enough to stand trial, is he not well enough to form his own opinions and beliefs? Is he not well enough to be responsible for his own actions? If he is, why do you seek to put this on me?"

ETA: FOTL-Waffle-101; Always answer with a string of childish questions that make you look like a moron.

ETA2: Hadn't read that for long while. Not just a conman but a despicable low-life who will con any gullible or vulnerable person if it pays for his drugs and beer.
Like a ten year old liar confronted with the truth Menard never answers, never states the facts. He simply asks questions. This is the same ruse freemen, like Clifford, use at traffic stops. For the first few stops I am sure the cops where surprised that anybody could ask so many questions and talk such gibberish.

But they are wise to the freemen game now, as are we.

Menard thinks asking questions presumes a sort of authority and that answering them is a sign of submission. That’s why he won’t give a straight answer to any question, whether asked by JB at the very beginning of this thread, by a cop, or even a clarifying question asked by a minion.

The real reason he won’t answer is because every tough question is a replay of his daddy grilling him about some childhood misdeed.

That's why he won't tell anybody where the freeman money went!

-----------------

Dope Clock update: It is day 77 since Fez Boy filed his magic freeman court papers and I haven’t heard anything from the courts, or my internet and email providers.

Last edited by arayder; 5th February 2013 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 5th February 2013, 08:41 AM   #17
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I was thinking. Maybe New Westminster should hold a road check somewhere around the Heritage Grill for a few hours. They might have some interesting successes in eliminating unlicensed and/or uninsured drivers.

Especially after a certain event, when their minds have been built up into certain beliefs.

ETA: Classroom lessons are good, but the real world experience is the most important part.

Last edited by LordEd; 5th February 2013 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 5th February 2013, 10:21 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by LordEd View Post
Classroom lessons are good, but the real world experience is the most important part.
Along that lines you have to wonder if the RCMP was well aware of Dean Clifford, his whacky theories and had even watched his YouTubes.

If that’s the case they would have been well prepared for his endless rambling, questions.

They also would have been aware that even the most harmless traffic stop would have resulted in Clifford failing to produce a driver’s license, registration and insurance.

Clifford’s physical assault on the officer and his impersonation of a police officer were just added charges heaped on and perfectly reasonable justification for slapping the cuffs on another out of control freeman.

By the way, it looks like he is going to miss his pod cast, scheduled for today, which was to cover "How to deal with the police".

Ironic, ain’t it?

--------------------

Hey, Bubba, what’s that truck doing there, eh? Spinning around?

Oh, look at the plates! It’s the big red dog guy, Clifford!

Cut the comedy. This means we gotta’ listen to half hour of this guy’s BS before we ticket him.
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Old 5th February 2013, 11:23 AM   #19
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I'm not so sure; see this incident from just a week before, where he got (yet another) truck towed away. The cops explicitly say they've never encountered or heard about any of his Freeman moonspeak before, and they even humor him for twenty minutes before getting him out of the truck. Once again, Canadian cops are shown to be excessively patient.

I typically don't listen to these things but it was totally worth it for "For the record no one is wearing their hats; they refuse to wear their hats." [At 26min]
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Old 5th February 2013, 11:53 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Boot2TheHead View Post
I'm not so sure; see this incident from just a week before, where he got (yet another) truck towed away. The cops explicitly say they've never encountered or heard about any of his Freeman moonspeak before, and they even humor him for twenty minutes before getting him out of the truck. Once again, Canadian cops are shown to be excessively patient.

I typically don't listen to these things but it was totally worth it for "For the record no one is wearing their hats; they refuse to wear their hats." [At 26min]
Followed shortly by "I will be filing a complaint with the military...being Her Majesty's Armed Forces" and a little later by questioning why the RCMP "synonym" doesn't have periods between the letters like it should. (I think he may have them there - imposters!).

Totally comedy gold.

Still, Clifford deserves more respect (or less disrespect) than Menard for actually having the courage of his convictions. Menard just cons patsies into "travelling" without license/reg/insurance, usually after squeezing some dope money out of them first.
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Old 5th February 2013, 12:00 PM   #21
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This episode with Clifford is also another example of the FOTL herd mentality. What's important is that the freeman is seen standing up to the authorities, dutifully and bravely reciting all of the FOTL spellbook despite the consequences. This is seen as a moral victory and, despite the concrete failure of the pseudo-legal incantations to have any positive effect at all on the actual outcome (making it worse, in fact), it encourages acolytes and elevates Clifford in the eyes of the FOTLer community.
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Last edited by D'rok; 5th February 2013 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 5th February 2013, 12:03 PM   #22
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Quote:
"For the record no one is wearing their hats; they refuse to wear their hats."
Lol..he even believes that old chestnut.
"A Copper cant arrest you unless he has his helmet on"

Again Canadian cops are the most patient on the planet.
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Old 5th February 2013, 12:06 PM   #23
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Quote:
Still, Clifford deserves more respect (or less disrespect) than Menard for actually having the courage of his convictions. Menard just cons patsies into "travelling" without license/reg/insurance, usually after squeezing some dope money out of them first.
Quote:
This is seen as a moral victory and, despite the concrete failure of the pseudo-legal incantations to have any effect at all on the actual outcome, it encourages acolytes and elevates Clifford in the eyes of the FOTLer community.
Come on Robert, it's your turn to get behind the wheel, it may be your last chance to regain some respect in the FMOTL community.
After all, you have nothing left to lose at the moment.
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Old 5th February 2013, 12:23 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Like a ten year old liar confronted with the truth Menard never answers, never states the facts. He simply asks questions...
Exactly. And they are not even good questions.
Never have been. Never will be.
The one thing that the master of communication can never do... is communicate.

In typical FOTL-Waffle style he asks, in Elizabethan English of course, (Don't get excited there Rob. I am referring to the first Queen Elizabeth), questions which he seems to think will make people other than his uneducated followers have some kind of epiphany.

Menard's continual desperate attempts to create the next get-rich / pay-for-a-joint schemes are now nothing more than hilarious.

I tip my hat to the original title of this thread.

The latest internet-bowel-movement is simply a crappy website with his silly old YouTube Babblings.

I know you have a short / drug-addled memory Rob but:
When will robertmenard.org become more of your internet waste that you set up on a drunken whim then forgot about?

Rob, get a job. I'm sure you could earn enough to pay for your breakfasts, beer and pot.
Stop pretending that you can't get a job because you "have rescinded your SIN".
Anyone with an ounce of intelligence can see how stupid that particular lie of yours is.

You are foot-bullet-man.
Your 100 friends on Facebook will not be donating money to you.
They will massage your ego, but you don't have a new Lance there.

(BTW, Clifford gets way more donations than you ever have.
Do you never sit down and contemplate the fact that you are *very* bad at being a conman?)

Let the hilarity continue.

I have no problem laughing at a wannabe conman who is unable to a/ Con people, and b/ Remember his own lies.

Give my best wishes to Lance, Rob.
Oh... ignore that. You threw him under a bus
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Old 5th February 2013, 12:50 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by D'rok View Post
This episode with Clifford is also another example of the FOTL herd mentality. What's important is that the freeman is seen standing up to the authorities, dutifully and bravely reciting all of the FOTL spellbook despite the consequences. This is seen as a moral victory and, despite the concrete failure of the pseudo-legal incantations to have any positive effect at all on the actual outcome (making it worse, in fact), it encourages acolytes and elevates Clifford in the eyes of the FOTLer community.
And the worst part is that within a few days, they'll have forgotten this entire incident.
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Old 5th February 2013, 01:01 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Boot2TheHead View Post
I'm not so sure; see this incident from just a week before, where he got (yet another) truck towed away. The cops explicitly say they've never encountered or heard about any of his Freeman moonspeak before, and they even humor him for twenty minutes before getting him out of the truck. Once again, Canadian cops are shown to be excessively patient.

I typically don't listen to these things but it was totally worth it for "For the record no one is wearing their hats; they refuse to wear their hats." [At 26min]
You may be right. I can see why a cop would say he had never heard anything like this guy before. One might think this guy has Aspergers syndrome or something. But, Clifford’s problem is that he has to cover all the bullet points in his lectures for fear one of his nitpicking minions will out carp him and gain the title of "best freeman legal mind".

So he asks why the there aren’t periods between the RCMP initials, why cop’s forms are filled out the way they are, why they used his name, why the cops aren’t wearing hats, why they won’t respond to his quizzes over his interpretation of Canadian law. At one point he admits to calling 911, then demands to know why emergency responders didn‘t hop to when he called.

Why, why, why. . .

Despite Clifford’s restraint there is a clear underlying frustration in his voice. A frustration which likely make made him snap when he got busted in Gimli.

Last edited by arayder; 5th February 2013 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 5th February 2013, 01:13 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ComfySlippers View Post

The latest internet-bowel-movement is simply a crappy website with his silly old YouTube Babblings.
Having all of those in one place is actually kind of useful. I know that Menard has been confronted with this case on many occasions and has always dodged questions about his involvement:

http://canlii.ca/t/1ww8s

(It's a case from Nova Scotia where the defendants try to run a Menardian FOTL defence using a NOUICOR. Their defence is struck unceremoniously for the gibberish that it is.)

It turns out that, just as we suspected, he was directly involved and in fact advised the defendants and prepared their defence. He says this explicitly at around 7:55 in this video:

http://youtu.be/9YGsGhrbn7c

Once again, Menard's victims pay the price (including whatever monies they paid him for his time and effort), while Menard continues to flog a posturing video about the whole affair in an attempt to attract more clients.
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Old 5th February 2013, 01:23 PM   #28
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On a similar note, there is another recent Nova Scotia case involving a NOUICOR defence. This one:

http://canlii.ca/t/frktx

(It is an application for bail pending an appeal from a criminal conviction of uttering threats to kill a police officer and various firearms offences. When arrested for the threats, the FOTLer was found with a loaded .44 calibre handgun).

The trial judge described the NOUICOR like this:

"In evidence is a lengthy, notarized statement sworn by Mr. McCormick. According to the doctrines of Freeman-on-the-Land, publication of such a document magically frees one from the Criminal Code, including the gun laws. In this document, Mr. McCormick asserts his right to bear arms. On the day before the seizure, when he made the threat to shoot police officers who might come into his driveway, Mr. McCormick described at length his beliefs in his right to carry a loaded handgun. He even said that he could have a gun when he went grocery shopping, and he explained his skill at quickly drawing a holstered revolver. At trial Mr. McCormick asserted not only his right to bear arms, contrary to the Criminal Code, but also his self-serving misinterpretation of various provisions in the Code to the effect that his particular handgun, in his particular circumstances, does not violate the gun laws."

Shades of Menard's past threats to shoot RCMP officers. I wonder what Menard's involvement was in this case? Even if he wasn't personally involved, his teachings were.

Needless to say, the peaceful, non-violent freeman was denied bail, as the judge says:

"In my opinion, public respect for the administration of justice would be seriously eroded to order Mr. McCormickís released after having been convicted of uttering death threats against police officers, and within 24 hours to be found with a loaded, very powerful restricted handgun strapped to his hip, and who still proclaims his Freeman-on-the-land beliefs that the laws of Canada simply do not apply to govern his conduct. The third criteria has not been satisfied [detention not necessarily in public interest]. Despite Mr. MacDonaldís able efforts and submissions, the application is dismissed."
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Old 5th February 2013, 02:26 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by LordEd View Post
I was thinking. Maybe New Westminster should hold a road check somewhere around the Heritage Grill for a few hours. They might have some interesting successes in eliminating unlicensed and/or uninsured drivers.

Especially after a certain event, when their minds have been built up into certain beliefs.

ETA: Classroom lessons are good, but the real world experience is the most important part.
True, I'm surprised (not) that Menard doesn't offer field trips to demonstrate the power of FOTL in action.

I believe I'd pay for that.
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Old 5th February 2013, 02:27 PM   #30
tsig
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Like a ten year old liar confronted with the truth Menard never answers, never states the facts. He simply asks questions. This is the same ruse freemen, like Clifford, use at traffic stops. For the first few stops I am sure the cops where surprised that anybody could ask so many questions and talk such gibberish.

But they are wise to the freemen game now, as are we.

Menard thinks asking questions presumes a sort of authority and that answering them is a sign of submission. Thatís why he wonít give a straight answer to any question, whether asked by JB at the very beginning of this thread, by a cop, or even a clarifying question asked by a minion.

The real reason he wonít answer is because every tough question is a replay of his daddy grilling him about some childhood misdeed.

That's why he won't tell anybody where the freeman money went!

-----------------

Dope Clock update: It is day 77 since Fez Boy filed his magic freeman court papers and I havenít heard anything from the courts, or my internet and email providers.
I'm sure it went up in smoke.
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Old 6th February 2013, 03:09 AM   #31
Tolls
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Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
And the worst part is that within a few days, they'll have forgotten this entire incident.
I've heard that can happen with excessive use of certain substances.
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Old 6th February 2013, 06:08 AM   #32
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Freemen, like Menard and Clifford demand their warped brand of freedom at the price of justice and everybody elseĎs liberty. In essence they are demanding the liberty to act unjustly.

They talk of being equal to judges and but the fact is they want the disproportionate power to, on their own, reinterpret the law to mean what they want it to mean.

These two talk of peaceful lawful means, but when judges, citing centuries of western law, donít grant their demands they embark on campaigns of paper terrorism.

When the police ticket them for violating constitutional and lawful motor vehicle statutes they claim the right to short circuit justice by filing civil actions against the ticketing officers. . . . and even say they have the right to violently resist.

Freemen like these two arenít really demanding equality, they are the less able insisting they be law givers.

They donít comprehend the law or history.

They canít control themselves. One is very often drunk or stoned during his own YouTube filmings and the other is a control freak who is charged with assaulting a cop.

Worst of all these two think that equality means dealing with others unjustly. Itís one thing to tell gullible freemen what they think the law is but itís a deception to tell freemen, for a fee, that their legal advice is effective and workable.

The latter is a demonstrable lie and Menard and Clifford should know it! The rest of us do.

-----------------

Dope Clock update: It is day 78 since Fez Boy filed his magic freeman court papers and I havenít heard anything from the courts, or my internet and email providers.
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Old 6th February 2013, 06:49 AM   #33
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Quote:
The latter is a demonstrable lie and Menard and Clifford should know it!
They both know it, however Clifford has the bottle to put his neck on the line for donations and Menard is a coward who uses others and blames them when it doesnt work out.
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Old 6th February 2013, 07:38 AM   #34
The Palmernator
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Rob Menard is on GetOutOfDebtFree!!!!

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/foru...p?f=60&t=45259

Quote:
Robert Arthur: Menard
A Canadian Filmmaker, Comedian, Freeman-on-the-Land and Interim Director of the World Freeman Society. Renowned for his delivery of pro-freedom information in a light hearted and sometimes satirical fashion. Began analyzing Canadian statutes after the kidnap of his daughter, Elizabeth Ann Elaine by the powers that be and began delivering pro-freedom performances to welcoming audiences in a light hearted and often satirical fashion which earned him a reputation as one of the foremost Freemen worldwide.

(live 7pm - 9pm GMT London England)
7PM Ė 9PM GMT
2PM Ė 4PM EST
5AM Ė 7AM AUS
11am - 1PM CANADA

Links for radio:
http://www.bobsbackyard.co.uk/darkcity/live.html
OR
http://darkcity.caster.fm/

If you wish to come and chat with us when the show is on even drop some questions whilst we are live on air then please do so here, when the show is running...

http://site.anonnet.org/webirc/bobsbackyard
I don't recall him being on GOODF before. Is this a new low, even for him...?
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Old 6th February 2013, 08:07 AM   #35
Boot2TheHead
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his daughter, Elizabeth Ann Elaine
Huh.

His exact relationship with that child had always been nebulous; he always kept using his usual weasel doubletalk when talking about it. It was never clear to me which one it was, between impregnating an underage girl or claiming rights to someone else's baby. Couldn't tell which was less creepy, anyway.

What a role model.
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Old 6th February 2013, 08:58 AM   #36
jargon buster
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Quote:
I don't recall him being on GOODF before. Is this a new low, even for him...?
Its the only place that will have him.
Quote:
His exact relationship with that child had always been nebulous; he always kept using his usual weasel doubletalk when talking about it. It was never clear to me which one it was, between impregnating an underage girl or claiming rights to someone else's baby. Couldn't tell which was less creepy, anyway.
My votes on impregnating the underage girl, he did actually claim he knew she was pregnant before she did????
See my sig
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Old 6th February 2013, 09:15 AM   #37
arayder
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Originally Posted by jargon buster View Post
My votes on impregnating the underage girl. . .
What does common law say about rape?

Statutory rape occurs when the victim is under the legal age of consent even if the intercourse is consensual.

Last edited by arayder; 6th February 2013 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 6th February 2013, 09:28 AM   #38
LordEd
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That's a hard read to translate.

He went to a bar for reasons unclear and wound up in a relationship with a 17 year old. She was addicted to various things and he attempted to get her cleaned up.

Social services acted within 2 days of the birth.

The timing could mean that she was not pre-pregnant as they became a "couple" in a few days, but the conversation doesn't really flow. Not sure how you start a conversation and say "I don't know you but you're pregnant" without getting slapped. He also claims he didn't know her age, yet claims to be a 'family'?

I don't know their methods, but 2 days seems fast for any government agency.

What happened to the mother that he was 'supporting'?
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Old 6th February 2013, 09:38 AM   #39
jargon buster
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I think the removal of the child was more to do with the presence of Menard rather than the condition of Megan.
Once Menard was out of the picture and Megan back home with her parents the child was returned.
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Old 6th February 2013, 10:20 AM   #40
LordEd
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Quote:
They tore our family apart and made Megan care for Elizabeth all alone. They halved the level of care that Elizabeth was to receive and they doubled Meganís work load. They endangered Elizabethís life through their criminal actions.
With the context of her being returned, this sentence makes sense. They didn't want to separate her from the mother, just Rob.
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