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Tags Australia elections , Australia politics , Julie Bishop , Malcolm Turnbull , Peter Dutton , Scott Morrison

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Old 2nd February 2020, 09:46 PM   #2121
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Was that two years ago? Man, time flies.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 12:59 AM   #2122
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Seriously, whatever you do, don't mention Soot Morrison from Marketing's religion and Bitcoin in the same sentence, otherwise there'll be some kind of assplodaclipse!

****, I've mentioned it!
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Old 3rd February 2020, 01:18 AM   #2123
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Why? Also, why are you so desperate to get me to stop? I've given you all my reasons for feeling that Morrison's religion may influence the way he implements policy and why that would be a bad thing. But you seem very insistent that it does not. What's your dog in this game?
This is the politics section, not the fairy tales section. You would have us believe that Scumo is a decent person who has been corrupted by his religion. That is the most ridiculous notion ever.

Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
ETA: Also, did you read the article I linked to or did you dismiss it?
Yes. As usual, it perpetuates the cum hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. No matter how bad Pentecostalism is, it doesn't prove that Scumo is motivated by Pentecostalism.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 01:42 AM   #2124
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
Seriously, whatever you do, don't mention Soot Morrison from Marketing's religion and Bitcoin in the same sentence, otherwise there'll be some kind of assplodaclipse!

****, I've mentioned it!
Do you really think that nobody would point out fallacies in an argument unless they supported the opposite side?

You know that the standards in this forum have really gotten low when a moderator makes fun of an arguer instead of dealing with their argument.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 02:12 AM   #2125
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
WTF for?

Scumo is a bad PM because he is a member of the pampered classes, not because of his religion.
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Or because money is his god. It's stupid to try and get into his mind like this.
Given his involvement in a prosperity gospel movement its hard to see where your disagreement is.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 02:22 AM   #2126
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
This is the politics section, not the fairy tales section. You would have us believe that Scumo is a decent person who has been corrupted by his religion. That is the most ridiculous notion ever.


Yes. As usual, it perpetuates the cum hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. No matter how bad Pentecostalism is, it doesn't prove that Scumo is motivated by Pentecostalism.
Is there any recent post where Arth suggests that Scumo is a decent person? I cannot find one.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 04:15 AM   #2127
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Given his involvement in a prosperity gospel movement its hard to see where your disagreement is.
It is when the conclusive leap is made that his Pentecostalism is the cause of his behaviour (rather than anything else).

There is no basis for this claim.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 04:47 PM   #2128
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Barney didn't get up.

Shame, I was looking forward to a few good laughs.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 06:46 PM   #2129
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
This is the politics section, not the fairy tales section. You would have us believe that Scumo is a decent person who has been corrupted by his religion. That is the most ridiculous notion ever.
Put up or shut up. Show me even one time where I even suggested that he's a decent person. Even one, or withdraw your accusation immediately.

I have consistently agreed with every single reason you don't like him. I added one, that you seem curiously resistant to. Why this vehement resistance to the idea that a person can have many different influences on their behaviour, and that religion can be one of them.

If you don't think religion can influence someone's behaviour, then you do not live in the same world as I do. So I repeat - why are you so vehemently defending his religion despite all the evidence I have given that Pentecostalism definitely influences peoples' behaviour? Do you need me to go through my reasoning again or do you prefer to be blind?

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Yes. As usual, it perpetuates the cum hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. No matter how bad Pentecostalism is, it doesn't prove that Scumo is motivated by Pentecostalism.
I've never said anything is proof that he is motivated by Pentecostalism. But Pentecostalism definitely motivates people. If Morrison is not motivated by Pentcostalism, then he's one of very few.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 06:51 PM   #2130
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It is when the conclusive leap is made that his Pentecostalism is the cause of his behaviour (rather than anything else).

There is no basis for this claim.
And that is not a claim I have made.

I have said that he may be motivated by religion - like other people can be. I have said that it might influence his decisions - as it does other people. I have never said that religion is the direct proximate cause of his behaviour.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:36 PM   #2131
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
And that is not a claim I have made.

I have said that he may be motivated by religion - like other people can be. I have said that it might influence his decisions - as it does other people. I have never said that religion is the direct proximate cause of his behaviour.
You have posted reams of information that attempt to show that Scumo's Pentecostalism/Dominionism makes him a dangerous individual. You will have to forgive me if I sound a little skeptical that you are merely posting a possible hypothesis.
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Old 4th February 2020, 03:05 PM   #2132
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Well some of the political experts are claiming Barney is not done yet. With the rallying cry of "Climate change is BS" the Nationals don't want any caving in to demands for climate change action. Barney is on record as a fossil fuels champion, after lovingly caressing the piece of coal, Scomo brought into parliament not that long ago.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...5775f3f545ac2b


Quote:
The Deputy Prime Minister was put on notice after defeating Mr Joyce in a rare Nationals *leadership spill, with Joyce support*ers claiming the vote was as close as 11-10 and *McCormack backers arguing the vote was more like 15-6.
Speaking to the Coalition *partyroom after Tuesday’s defeat, Mr Joyce warned against making *climate change action a priority because of the backlash from the devastating summer bushfires, while Senator Canavan, who *resigned from the ministry to *support Mr Joyce in the leadership spill, told The Australian the Coalition would alienate people in central and north Queensland if it became too focused on climate change.

It would seem the members are challenged by counting 11-10 or 15-6 ?

It would seem support for climate change action is non existent in National ranks. George Christensen won't have a bar of it, as his electorate depends so heavily on digging up the stuff for their lively hood. Mind you his Christian faith may have some influence here as well ......... oh hang on, what have I said? I am in for a lashing by psion.
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Old 5th February 2020, 07:36 PM   #2133
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Sorry, but I found this absolutely hilarious: Morrison announced a formal inquiry into veteran deaths.

Quote:
The commissioner, who has not yet been named, will also explore and recommend ways to boost mental health within Australia's armed forces.
What made me laugh at that is that the inquiry has zero chance of answering the question, for which there's a ridiculously simple answer - stop sending your blokes to fight America's wars!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-51389461
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Old 5th February 2020, 11:58 PM   #2134
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Sorry, but I found this absolutely hilarious: Morrison announced a formal inquiry into veteran deaths.



What made me laugh at that is that the inquiry has zero chance of answering the question, for which there's a ridiculously simple answer - stop sending your blokes to fight America's wars!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-51389461
That is one options, but what are other options? The problem with your answer is that Australia is a puppet of the USA. Both parties will do anything the USA government tells it to. There must be a good reason for this.
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Old 6th February 2020, 09:42 AM   #2135
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
That is one options, but what are other options? The problem with your answer is that Australia is a puppet of the USA. Both parties will do anything the USA government tells it to. There must be a good reason for this.
I don't believe there's any reason to continue to be America's south sea puppet. It's almost like a habit.
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Old 7th February 2020, 01:56 PM   #2136
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Rape survivor urges Governor-General to cancel Bettina Arndt's Australia Day award

The young woman at the centre of the controversy over the Australia Day award given to social commentator Bettina Arndt is calling on the Governor-General to rescind the honour.

Key points:

This year, men's rights commentator Bettina Arndt became a Member (AM) in the General Division of the Order of Australia
Ms Arndt said her interview with a convicted paedophile had nothing to do with her Australia Day honour
Grace Tame has spoken exclusively to the ABC about her request to the Governor-General
Grace Tame told the ABC she wanted Ms Arndt stripped of her AM for "significant service … to gender equity" because she had publicly sympathised with the man who repeatedly raped Grace when she was 15 years old.

"I think it would be hugely powerful gesture and a step in the right direction for the Governor-General to at least consider rescinding the award," Ms Tame said.

"It might seem trivial to take away one individual's award, but it's about a principle.

"There is a principle at stake here and it's about demonstrating to people that we cannot reward people who validate abusers and people to capitalise on the weaknesses and vulnerabilities of others."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-...moved/11928740

I hope this gets traction. If we are giving out gongs on Australia Day let them be to those of great character selflessly giving to the community not puffed up culture warriors.

Last edited by Sideroxylon; 7th February 2020 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 7th February 2020, 05:24 PM   #2137
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Some food for thought for Morrison and his pals: https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world...Dou?li=BBqdg4K
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Old 8th February 2020, 03:52 PM   #2138
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So now the suspected coronavirus infected are being sent to Darwin. Is this because of lack of space at Christmas Island or for some other reason? Finding a more politically savoury option perhaps?


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-...wuhan/11947258


Quote:
Foreign Minister Marise Payne has confirmed a flight evacuating Australians from the epicentre of the deadly coronavirus has taken off.
Australians who had been stranded in the Chinese city of Wuhan boarded a Qantas flight bound for Darwin early this morning.
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Old 8th February 2020, 05:23 PM   #2139
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
So now the suspected coronavirus infected are being sent to Darwin. Is this because of lack of space at Christmas Island or for some other reason? Finding a more politically savoury option perhaps?
The one I bolded, without any doubt.

I'd prefer Christmas Island if it were me.
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Old 8th February 2020, 05:48 PM   #2140
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
The one I bolded, without any doubt.

I'd prefer Christmas Island if it were me.
Pretty happy in Darwin.
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Old 9th February 2020, 12:25 PM   #2141
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Rape survivor urges Governor-General to cancel Bettina Arndt's Australia Day award

The young woman at the centre of the controversy over the Australia Day award given to social commentator Bettina Arndt is calling on the Governor-General to rescind the honour.

Key points:

This year, men's rights commentator Bettina Arndt became a Member (AM) in the General Division of the Order of Australia
Ms Arndt said her interview with a convicted paedophile had nothing to do with her Australia Day honour
Grace Tame has spoken exclusively to the ABC about her request to the Governor-General
Grace Tame told the ABC she wanted Ms Arndt stripped of her AM for "significant service … to gender equity" because she had publicly sympathised with the man who repeatedly raped Grace when she was 15 years old.

"I think it would be hugely powerful gesture and a step in the right direction for the Governor-General to at least consider rescinding the award," Ms Tame said.

"It might seem trivial to take away one individual's award, but it's about a principle.

"There is a principle at stake here and it's about demonstrating to people that we cannot reward people who validate abusers and people to capitalise on the weaknesses and vulnerabilities of others."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-...moved/11928740

I hope this gets traction. If we are giving out gongs on Australia Day let them be to those of great character selflessly giving to the community not puffed up culture warriors.

Seems to be some sort of thing that's going around.

Far more dangerous than coronavirus, I think.
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Old 9th February 2020, 01:49 PM   #2142
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So Barney is coming out as a champion of coal once again. No doubt we will see him caressing another lump of the stuff in the house soon. "Paving the way for another tilt at the top job" you ask?... Surely not.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-...fence/11947812


Quote:
The Federal Opposition has accused the Coalition of opening the door to subsidising new coal-fired power stations, as Nationals MP Barnaby Joyce argued cutting carbon emissions was being prioritised ahead of affordable power.
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Old 9th February 2020, 02:00 PM   #2143
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After the fires, the floods: https://play.stuff.co.nz/details/_6130929930001

Jut as well you have a christian as PM - it's all starting to look a bit biblical.

Thor - have you suggested someone tries fitting the lump of coal into Barney? Seems like a fair idea to me.
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Old 9th February 2020, 02:09 PM   #2144
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
After the fires, the floods: https://play.stuff.co.nz/details/_6130929930001

Jut as well you have a christian as PM - it's all starting to look a bit biblical.

Thor - have you suggested someone tries fitting the lump of coal into Barney? Seems like a fair idea to me.

Sounds like a good idea. He is not short of orifices big enough to accomodate a sizeable lump methinks.
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Old 9th February 2020, 04:54 PM   #2145
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
So Barney is coming out as a champion of coal once again. No doubt we will see him caressing another lump of the stuff in the house soon. "Paving the way for another tilt at the top job" you ask?... Surely not.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-...fence/11947812
Watching Labor’s deputy leader squirm on the ABCs Insiders when asked about Labor’s position on coal-fired power was just embarrassing.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-...iders/11947848
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Old 11th February 2020, 12:41 AM   #2146
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Nice victory against the current government: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/...051720954.html
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Old 11th February 2020, 01:40 AM   #2147
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Nice victory against the current government: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/...051720954.html
It sounds more like a victory for New Zealand (Brendan Thoms is still a NZ citizen but can't be deported from Australia for his crimes).

The background to this story is that Daniel Love and Brendan Thoms were both born overseas and later moved to Australia but never applied for Australian citizenship. After serving jail terms for criminal convictions, the government moved to deport them in accordance with Australian immigration law.

The problem is that both have an Aboriginal parent and today, in a 4:3 majority decision, the High Court ruled that Aboriginals can't be considered "aliens" so they can't be deported.
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Old 11th February 2020, 02:11 AM   #2148
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It sounds more like a victory for New Zealand (Brendan Thoms is still a NZ citizen but can't be deported from Australia for his crimes).
And we're pretty happy about that - some of the deportees have lived in Australia since weeks after birth.
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Old 11th February 2020, 03:58 AM   #2149
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
And we're pretty happy about that < - snip ->.
Snipped out the part you are not really interested in. You are just happy that you don't have another criminal living in NZ.
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Old 11th February 2020, 02:01 PM   #2150
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Watching Labor’s deputy leader squirm on the ABCs Insiders when asked about Labor’s position on coal-fired power was just embarrassing.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-...iders/11947848

Yes indeed, typical politician response of dodging around a question, when he believes a definitive statement may damage him politically. Embarrassing and sickening to see such a graphic example.
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Old 13th February 2020, 01:31 PM   #2151
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So now it comes out that Soot Morrison, (well his office which means the same thing), was directly involved in the sports grant rort. No wonder Soot was so reluctant to take action against McKenzie.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-...enzie/11962104


Quote:
Prime Minister Scott Morrison's office was involved in suggesting which projects should be approved under a controversial sport grants scheme, a Senate inquiry has been told.

The evidence paints a picture of Mr Morrison's office being more heavily involved than the Government has admitted to date.
More than 40 per cent of the projects were ineligible for funding by the time agreements were signed, the hearing was also told.
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Old 13th February 2020, 09:13 PM   #2152
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It just gets better and better.
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Old 13th February 2020, 10:41 PM   #2153
psionl0
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
So now it comes out that Soot Morrison, (well his office which means the same thing), was directly involved in the sports grant rort. No wonder Soot was so reluctant to take action against McKenzie.
Anybody care to link that to Scumo's Christianity?
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Old 13th February 2020, 10:45 PM   #2154
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Anybody care to link that to Scumo's Christianity?
He was doing the Lord’s work to fulfil the divine mandate.
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Old 13th February 2020, 10:58 PM   #2155
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Anybody care to link that to Scumo's Christianity?
He is a politician first. He will do anything he thinks will help him get re-elected. This is just one example of what he is prepared to do. It is also an example of what is wrong with the voting system. Some voters are more important than others. This is true of most such voting systems in the world.
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Old 13th February 2020, 11:03 PM   #2156
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Anybody care to link that to Scumo's Christianity?
I can certainly think of a couple of ways in which his religion may have influenced his decisions.

Prosperity Gospel - and to be clear I still have no idea if he is a believer in this or not, but it wouldn't surprise me if he were - results in a real "jobs for the boys" approach. His friends are perforce God's friends, and he is simply spreading God's blessing to those that God favours because that's what God wants him to do.

Those who support him as Prime Minister are doing God's work, whether they know it or not, because him being Prime Minister is part of God's plan for Australia. So it makes sense for him to favour those who are on his side politically, and because God wants him to do it it doesn't even occur to him that there might be a problem with it. And even if it did it wouldn't matter, because it's what God wants him to do.

How'd I do?
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Old 13th February 2020, 11:05 PM   #2157
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
He is a politician first. He will do anything he thinks will help him get re-elected. This is just one example of what he is prepared to do. It is also an example of what is wrong with the voting system. Some voters are more important than others. This is true of most such voting systems in the world.
If he fully embraces the Prosperity Gospel - and again I don't know if he does but it wouldn't surprise me (read that bit carefully several times, please, psionl0) - then he is a Christian first, and he's a politician because God wants him to be.
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Old 13th February 2020, 11:53 PM   #2158
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
How'd I do?
About as well as when you imagined that his sucking up to coal mining corporations was because he was doing "God's work" (sans the apocalypse).
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Old 14th February 2020, 12:34 AM   #2159
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If you look on his facebook page many of the comments on what he has written have religious references.
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Old 14th February 2020, 12:58 AM   #2160
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
If you look on his facebook page many of the comments on what he has written have religious references.
What does that prove? That he's NOT a "politician first"?
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