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Old 15th March 2019, 06:29 PM   #561
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
He's not even camouflaged a little bit!
A lot of people never saw the article with him in it.
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Old 15th March 2019, 06:33 PM   #562
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It is generally expected that a position you take should be supported by evidence.
To prevent possible accessory raving nutjobs from flying out of Chch with their murder weapon stuffed in their hand luggage. Duh!
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Old 15th March 2019, 06:34 PM   #563
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Actually no. Phantomwolf's post has no evidence to justify a course of action.
Actually no.

Phantoms post has no evidence "in your opinion". Which you are entitled to have obviously.

But it is still just "your" opinion
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 15th March 2019, 06:34 PM   #564
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It is generally expected that a position you take should be supported by evidence.
Life is simply not worth living unless everything is supported by evidence. For example: I refuse to cut my toenails unless I have evidence that they need to be cut. It is as simple as that.
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Old 15th March 2019, 06:35 PM   #565
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
To prevent possible accessory raving nutjobs from flying out of Chch with their murder weapon stuffed in their hand luggage. Duh!
I understand the goal. What is the evidence that was going to happen? Is the decision supported by the evidence?
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Old 15th March 2019, 06:36 PM   #566
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Actually no.

Phantoms post has no evidence "in your opinion". Which you are entitled to have obviously.

But it is still just "your" opinion
Phantom also misstated my opinion.
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Old 15th March 2019, 06:41 PM   #567
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Actually no. Phantomwolf's post has no evidence to justify a course of action.
The fact is that you don't need evidence to justify taking a course of action, you do it because you think that there could be a threat and you take the precautions just in case.

I have no evidence that leaving my doors and windows unlocked when I go downtown will result in my home being burgled, in fact the evidence I have is that it won't, but that doesn't stop me trying to remember to make sure everything is closed and locked before leaving.

They had no evidence that there was any danger of attacks outside of Christchurch, but armed police when to Mosques around the country and made sure that no more attacks happened.

You want to have evidence for a course of action, but in these situations, having evidence means you're too late to act. Shutting down domestic flights after one has been attacked or hijacked is not a sensible action, and besides, you have no say in how we do things here. NZers are happy with the actions taken, and that is all the matters.
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Last edited by PhantomWolf; 15th March 2019 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 15th March 2019, 06:42 PM   #568
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Phantom also misstated my opinion.
A lot of people would take that concept as they are not broadcasting their opinion very well.

What is your exact opinion on detail, with justifications as to why the decision was wrong

That might help
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 15th March 2019, 06:44 PM   #569
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
NZers are happy with the actions taken, and that is all the matters.
People are happy with tarot card readers. Skeptics still point out it's not based on science.
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Old 15th March 2019, 06:45 PM   #570
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
A lot of people would take that concept as they are not broadcasting their opinion very well.

What is your exact opinion on detail, with justifications as to why the decision was wrong

That might help
I don't think it is wrong.
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Old 15th March 2019, 06:46 PM   #571
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New Zealand Herald: Police believe one man is responsible for yesterday’s Christchurch massacre - and allege he traveled between two packed mosques and killed at least 49 people. And within 36 minutes - it was all over. He was caught, dragged from a car by two police officers, and taken into custody.
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Old 15th March 2019, 06:46 PM   #572
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
People are happy with tarot card readers. Skeptics still point out it's not based on science.
How I like my mashed potatoes isn't based on science either. Get over it. We don't based everything in our lives on science. Sometimes we just do things because they are sensible, even if there is no evidence that they need to happen. It's called taking precautions.
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Old 15th March 2019, 06:48 PM   #573
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I don't think it is wrong.
Then all you have don't is waste a page arguing about something not worth arguing about, and made a mockery of the 49 people who were slaughtered.
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Old 15th March 2019, 06:51 PM   #574
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Then all you have don't is waste a page arguing about something not worth arguing about, and made a mockery of the 49 people who were slaughtered.
I'm asking why people believe what they believe. That seems like an appropriate question on a skeptics forum
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Old 15th March 2019, 06:59 PM   #575
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I'm asking why people believe what they believe. That seems like an appropriate question on a skeptics forum
And people have said precaution given the airport is 15 minutes away and the amount of culprits was unknown, and hand luggage couldn't be checked.

Which bit precisely do you think is wrong and why

Embrass my skepticism of your opinion and answer
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:01 PM   #576
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
And people have said precaution given the airport is 15 minutes away and the amount of culprits was unknown, and hand luggage couldn't be checked.

Which bit precisely do you think is wrong and why

Embrass my skepticism of your opinion and answer
I don't have an opinion if it is right or wrong.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:02 PM   #577
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I don't have an opinion if it is right or wrong.
Well that was worth the effort then

Just trolling
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:05 PM   #578
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Well that was worth the effort then

Just trolling
Asking what evidence a person has for their position is not trolling. I don't have a position because I don't have the evidence. This is basic questioning of why someone has a position.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:08 PM   #579
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Asking what evidence a person has for their position is not trolling. I don't have a position because I don't have the evidence. This is basic questioning of why someone has a position.
Which has been laid out for you and you have made no attempt to discount or rule out as reasons for doing
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:09 PM   #580
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Well that was worth the effort then

Just trolling
Trying to discuss with Bob is seldom worth the effort.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:10 PM   #581
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Shifting the burden of proof. I didn't come out and support a strategy. I'm asking what evidence there is for the strategy you support?
...the burden of proof is on the authorities who made the decision, not random, anonymous internet posters.

If you really want evidence here is the official NZ police twitter account.

https://twitter.com/nzpolice

If your desire for evidence is so overwhelming please feel free to contact them, and when they let you know, please, by all means come back here and share what they said.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:13 PM   #582
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...the burden of proof is on the authorities who made the decision, not random, anonymous internet posters.

If you really want evidence here is the official NZ police twitter account.

https://twitter.com/nzpolice

If your desire for evidence is so overwhelming please feel free to contact them, and when they let you know, please, by all means come back here and share what they said.
The burden of proof is on whoever makes a claim. Anonymous posters are making claims here and I am asking them about it
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:14 PM   #583
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The burden of proof is on whoever makes a claim.
...which claim in particular in this thread requires a burden of proof?

Quote:
Anonymous posters are making claims here and I am asking them about it
Which particular post?
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:15 PM   #584
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Holy crap, the country is virtually cancelled today, with all major events being put off, mainly at the behest of the cops, who want to have armed pigs at everything. Bryan Adams and Polyfest, 1000 km away, have been called off, along with any event featuring people.

Nothing like shutting the door far too late.

Trying to make up for their deficiencies in vetting the guy for a gun licence?
Does your country still shut down every Sunday? Seems closing to mourn 49 people killed by a shooter isn't that much of a reach.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:15 PM   #585
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
How I like my mashed potatoes isn't based on science either. Get over it. We don't based everything in our lives on science. Sometimes we just do things because they are sensible, even if there is no evidence that they need to happen. It's called taking precautions.
What is the evidence it is a sensible decision?

Sensible definition I found is "(of a statement or course of action) chosen in accordance with wisdom or prudence; likely to be of benefit."

What leads you to conclude the actions today fit that?
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:16 PM   #586
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It isn't about hunters. Under certain circumstances, it is just for a person to kill another person. A gun is for killing people. Semi automatic weapons are better at that task than some other weapons.
Owning a gun for self defence is not a valid reason for owning a gun in Australia or New Zealand.

I should ignore trolling like this....
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:17 PM   #587
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Apologies if this got covered already, I just lost my mind over it...

Fox Analyst Decries NZ Attack, Calls Alleged Political Motive ‘Understandable’



Somehow he goes on to declare how the Arab and Muslim world need to do something about this.



Not to mention, ehhh, you just made a call to action, sir...

He then went on to tweet, blaming Iran for twisting his words and making him look bad.
Louie Gohmert went the same route.

Quote:
“The shootings at the New Zealand mosques are egregiously reprehensible. The shooters need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law along with anyone who knowingly aided their efforts in any way,” Gohmert said.

He continued: “There are courts, dispute resolutions, and legislatures to resolve controversies — there is no place for cold blooded murders. Though New Zealand does not have the death penalty, hopefully its people, through their justice system, will send the message loudly and clearly that such barbarity from anyone will not be tolerated.”

Gohmert did not specifically offer condolences to the victims or their families.
Yeah, why didn't the terrorist just sue Muslims for existing instead?
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:18 PM   #588
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Owning a gun for self defence is not a valid reason for owning a gun in Australia or New Zealand.

I should ignore trolling like this....
Reasons can be a valid reason regardless of legality. There is no magic that prevents governments from using violence to stop people from doing something for a valid reason.

I didn't claim it was a valid reason.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:20 PM   #589
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Does your country still shut down every Sunday? Seems closing to mourn 49 people killed by a shooter isn't that much of a reach.
We haven't shut down for Sundays in decades
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:22 PM   #590
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
What is the evidence it is a sensible decision?

Sensible definition I found is "(of a statement or course of action) chosen in accordance with wisdom or prudence; likely to be of benefit."

What leads you to conclude the actions today fit that?
Yesterday. Get it right.

I'd say avoiding the potential of a hijack of attack on a plane is indeed "likely to be of benefit" even if there is little evidence of those things occurring.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:24 PM   #591
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Reasons can be a valid reason regardless of legality. There is no magic that prevents governments from using violence to stop people from doing something for a valid reason.

I didn't claim it was a valid reason.
What exactly are you claiming?

Self defence is listed as automatically ruling you out of getting a gun licence

You seem to have a lot of pointless argumentative questions and very little opinions to offer
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

Last edited by cullennz; 15th March 2019 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:25 PM   #592
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Owning a gun for self defence is not a valid reason for owning a gun in Australia or New Zealand.

I should ignore trolling like this....
In New Zealand saying you want to get a Gun Licence for self defense during the interview stage is actually one of the specified reasons that is given in the law for them NOT granting a licence.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:26 PM   #593
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Yesterday. Get it right.

I'd say avoiding the potential of a hijack of attack on a plane is indeed "likely to be of benefit" even if there is little evidence of those things occurring.
The fact that there is little evidence of it occurring makes it difficult to assess if it is likely to be a benefit. This is getting into "Lisa I want to buy your rock" territory.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:27 PM   #594
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
What exactly are you claiming?

Self defence is listed as automatically ruling you out of getting a gun licence

You seem to have a lot of pointless argumentative questions and very little opinions to offer
Just because the government declares it is not a valid reason does make it not valid. They are not the arbiter of validity. Philosophy is.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:27 PM   #595
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Strange you didn't find this part....
I don't believe this is a derail because the airports were closed down after the shootings.

No screening of carry on luggage in planes under 90 pax? That is simply insane. Security checking carry-on adds all of five minutes to your time at the airport. It does not delay flights as this screening is done on entry to the terminal. Really backward.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:27 PM   #596
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The fact that there is little evidence of it occurring makes it difficult to assess if it is likely to be a benefit. This is getting into "Lisa I want to buy your rock" territory.
What is it about taking precautions that you don't understand?
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:28 PM   #597
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post



I'm almost more shocked that there were people watching this live on the internet and actually cheering it on. And all the while he was referring to far-right internet memes and in-jokes.
I'm not shocked by this at all. This is what the young right-wing is.

And still, centrists think antifa is the problem.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:29 PM   #598
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
New Zealand Herald: Police believe one man is responsible for yesterday’s Christchurch massacre - and allege he traveled between two packed mosques and killed at least 49 people. And within 36 minutes - it was all over. He was caught, dragged from a car by two police officers, and taken into custody.
Good job NZ PD: the way one of them rammed the suspect's car leaving it pinned with the front wheel spinning up in the air.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:30 PM   #599
PhantomWolf
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I don't believe this is a derail because the airports were closed down after the shootings.

No screening of carry on luggage in planes under 90 pax? That is simply insane.
Why is it insane?

Quote:
Security checking carry-on adds all of five minutes to your time at the airport. It does not delay flights as this screening is done on entry to the terminal. Really backward.
It has nothing to do with the time it takes, it has to do with how much it would cost to put in passenger screening into every regional airport in the country when there is little to no benefit to it.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:33 PM   #600
Stacko
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
I'm not shocked by this at all. This is what the young right-wing is.

And still, centrists think antifa is the problem.
There's a handy flow chart for this problem.

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