ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags !MOD BOX WARNING!

Reply
Old 16th March 2019, 01:16 AM   #681
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45,455
Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...New Zealand isn't "civilised?"

Which country is holding people in indefinitely in off-shore detention centres again? Are Indigenous Australians still the most incarcerated people on Earth?

New Zealand won't be "uncivilized" if we choose not to indulge a random internet's poster's desire that we spend millions of dollars doing something that will do jack-**** to stop the rise of white supremacy. You are in no position to be lecturing us on what it means to be "civilised". Clean up your own backyard first.


Well done. I can’t lecture NZ, but you can lecture Australia.

Unless you have recently purchased this forum, I will continue to call out NZ’s stupid gun laws and stupid airport security.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 01:16 AM   #682
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 25,487
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
NZ has stricter gun laws than the US. I guess it's a matter of opinion but here in the US it already seems rather strict to most gun owners. Of course criminals don't mind since they never abide by those laws anyway.

Chris B.
NZ doesn't have any constitutional right to arms, though, so we will have no trouble enacting much tougher laws.

There's a lot of apathy in what happened - our previous mass shooting was in 1990 and new laws were enacted. With no further attacks in all that time, everyone had congratulated themselves that it worked.

They were wrong.

Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Civilised countries can do both.
For god's sake can we get this subject over.

Aside from having nothing to do with the terrorist, airport security in NZ looks to be identical to that in Scotland. Small planes on regional runs aren't seen as a threat.

I wouldn't call Scotland uncivilised, unlike their southern neighbours.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 01:16 AM   #683
Information Analyst
Penultimate Amazing
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 10,099
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Yet you cannot control the minds of evil people. You'll find if someone wants to kill someone else, they'll simply make use of the nearest tool available, legal or not. Evil people don't tend to follow laws. Punishing law abiding citizens is not the answer. Reinstating the death penalty for murder would be a more realistic approach.
History shows that capital punishment has very little effect on deterring murderers, especially "evil" ones.
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 01:32 AM   #684
banquetbear
Graduate Poster
 
banquetbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,582
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
...smiley face. In thread about a massacre. Classy.

Quote:
Well done. I can’t lecture NZ, but you can lecture Australia.
I'm "lecturing you" because you are "lecturing us."

Quote:
Unless you have recently purchased this forum, I will continue to call out NZ’s stupid gun laws and stupid airport security.
Unless you've recently purchased this forum, I'll continue to respond to your ill-informed, fact-free, emotional poorly argued irrelevant opinions. I couldn't imagine myself jumping into a thread about the Port Arthur Massacre and behaving the way you are behaving here: especially when events are just over a day old. The nation is in ******* mourning. Give us a ******* break, will you?
banquetbear is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 02:23 AM   #685
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 25,226
Purportedly at an event today where Fraser Anning, surrounded by some fellow Nazis, was giving more Muslim-blaming statements to the press about the Christchurch attacks, a boy who somehow managed to sneak into the event and got right up next to him cracked an egg over Anning's head, which the Senator did not like at all.

Of course the boy was afterwards tackled and abused by Anning's Nazi friends like he was some kind of presidential assassin; but police quickly arrived and removed him from the premises, then released him without charge.

As there are complaints that Nazi-face-punching is too "violent", I propose this entertaining and non-violent alternative. Perhaps it can become a "meme".
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002

Last edited by Checkmite; 16th March 2019 at 02:28 AM.
Checkmite is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 02:30 AM   #686
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,361
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Purportedly at an event today where Fraser Anning, surrounded by some fellow Nazis, was giving more Muslim-blaming statements to the press about the Christchurch attacks, a boy who somehow managed to sneak into the event and got right up next to him cracked an egg over Anning's head, which the Senator did not like at all.

Of course the boy was afterwards tackled and abused by Anning's Nazi friends like he was some kind of presidential assassin; but police quickly arrived and removed him from the premises, then released him without charge.
I'd been fortunate enough to never have heard of him till yesterday.

Has to be one of the most **** about face logic dudes ever to walk the planet.

Annoyingly this event gives the bloke unwarranted oxygen
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 02:37 AM   #687
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45,455
Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...smiley face. In thread about a massacre. Classy.



I'm "lecturing you" because you are "lecturing us."



Unless you've recently purchased this forum, I'll continue to respond to your ill-informed, fact-free, emotional poorly argued irrelevant opinions. I couldn't imagine myself jumping into a thread about the Port Arthur Massacre and behaving the way you are behaving here: especially when events are just over a day old. The nation is in ******* mourning. Give us a ******* break, will you?
What is wrong with my opinion that NZ should restrict firearms like those used in this massacre?
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 02:51 AM   #688
Information Analyst
Penultimate Amazing
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 10,099
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I think that from the current information available, the two major things we need to look at in our gun laws are...

1) What more information should we be gathering and giving consideration before the issuing of any gun licences?
Is there currently any input from the applicant's GP? That came in in the UK after Dunblane.

Quote:
2) Should single shot weapons that can be converted from single shot to semi-automatic relatively easily, be considered to be of the same class as their semi-auto counterparts?
This is what UK legislation does, notwithstanding the fact that semi-autos larger than .22 LR are pretty much banned, anyway. Straight-pull versions or conversions of larger calibre semi-autos have to be effectively irreversible.
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 02:59 AM   #689
Information Analyst
Penultimate Amazing
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 10,099
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
What is "military style" in NZ? Anything with a pistol grip and detachable mag?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milita...semi-automatic
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:03 AM   #690
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,361
I think the obvious thing to do is record all (legal) gun sales against the licence holder. Type, number etc

So if someone say buys 5 dodgy looking ones it gets noticed.

Same for ammo

Add a social media check to the referee checks to get the licence in the first place would be pretty easy.

Yes I know there are lots of farmers/hunters who already have guns that will be missed, but you have to start somewhere
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:04 AM   #691
Information Analyst
Penultimate Amazing
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 10,099
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
That's because Muslim terrorists are more likely to blow something up or drive a truck through crowds.
Simplistic and misleading. Terrorists - of whatever persuasion - who can get firearms use firearms. Those who can't look to other means.
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:07 AM   #692
banquetbear
Graduate Poster
 
banquetbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,582
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
What is wrong with my opinion that NZ should restrict firearms like those used in this massacre?
...you mean your opinion that unless we upgrade the Chathams Island airport NZ isn't a civilised nation?

I don't think I've heard a single Kiwi express the opinion that NZ shouldn't make changes to their firearms laws in the wake of what happened yesterday. From the Prime Minister to the police, from the local gun lobby to hunters: nearly everybody is unanimous that things will have to change. So who are your many-lectures in this thread addressed to exactly? And who said your opinion is wrong?
banquetbear is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:08 AM   #693
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,361
Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Simplistic and misleading. Terrorists - of whatever persuasion - who can get firearms use firearms. Those who can't look to other means.
And?

I'm missing the bit where not giving them guns is worthless
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:15 AM   #694
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 18,937
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...sacre-coverage

Quote:
“Police are aware there is extremely distressing footage relating to the incident in Christchurch circulating online,” the police said in a statement. “We would strongly urge that the link not be shared. We are working to have any footage removed.”
The police should have better things to do than stopping the dissemination of facts and data.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:19 AM   #695
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45,455
Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...you mean your opinion that unless we upgrade the Chathams Island airport NZ isn't a civilised nation?

I don't think I've heard a single Kiwi express the opinion that NZ shouldn't make changes to their firearms laws in the wake of what happened yesterday. From the Prime Minister to the police, from the local gun lobby to hunters: nearly everybody is unanimous that things will have to change. So who are your many-lectures in this thread addressed to exactly? And who said your opinion is wrong?
Oh come off it. My main point is and always has been that NZ should change firearm laws. I can’t help it if you fixate on my other (quite sensible) opinion that NZ should join the rest of the world on airport security.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:19 AM   #696
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 18,937
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...sacre-coverage



The police should have better things to do than stopping the dissemination of facts and data.
And then Australia went and did this

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/au...sacre-comments

Quote:
SYDNEY (AFP) - Australia has denied a visa to right-wing provocateur Milo Yiannopoulos after he responded to the mosque massacre in New Zealand by branding Islam "barbaric" and "alien", officials said on Saturday (March 16).

"Milo Yiannopoulos will not be allowed to enter Australia for his proposed tour this year," Immigration Minister David Coleman said in a statement.

"Mr Yiannopoulos' comments on social media regarding the Christchurch terror attack are appalling and foment hatred and division," he said.
There seems to be a pattern here that some resources need to be devoted to policing speech.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:21 AM   #697
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,361
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I didn't have an opinion with the airport. I asked people what evidence they had to think the strategy was a good idea.
Don't get me wrong. A lot of people probably share your anger some where in other countries.


As you have pointed out it might have been over kill
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:21 AM   #698
zooterkin
Nitpicking dilettante
Administrator
 
zooterkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berkshire, mostly
Posts: 45,368
Mod WarningSeveral off topic posts moved to AAH.
Please keep to the topic of the thread, which is not, inter alia, capital punishment, Aus/NZ rivalry or each other.

Thank you.
Posted By:zooterkin
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
Nerd! Hokulele
Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232
Ezekiel 23:20
zooterkin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:24 AM   #699
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 19,662
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
What? NZ does not have strict gun laws when murderers can get semi-automatics legally and kill people.
Why are you lying?
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:24 AM   #700
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 18,937
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Don't get me wrong. A lot of people probably share your anger some where in other countries.


As you have pointed out it might have been over kill
No anger. Asking someone why they think something doesn't come from a place of anger. Just applying our skepticism toolbox.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:24 AM   #701
banquetbear
Graduate Poster
 
banquetbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,582
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Oh come off it. My main point is and always has been that NZ should change firearm laws.
..."main" is subjective. Your main point appears to be that "you know best, and if you don't agree with me you are uncivilised." But as always YMMV.

Quote:
I can’t help it if you fixate on my other (quite sensible) opinion that NZ should join the rest of the world on airport security.
If it was "sensible" then you would have no problem answering the questions I gave you earlier in the thread. I'll post them again for you in case you had forgotten what they were:

Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...can you be a bit more specific?

How many domestic terminals are we talking about here?

What would the cost be to both build screening facilities and to staff those facilities?

And how many extra dollars would be added to each and every ticket?
banquetbear is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:27 AM   #702
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45,455
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Why are you lying?
Oh good. This murderer didn’t get his guns legally. You must tell your PM.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:27 AM   #703
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 19,662
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Martin Bryant obtained his guns legally. So too did Tarrant, or so says the PM.

Australia banned semi-automatics and brought in other restrictions. Over to you NZ.
You are deliberately cherry picking, the PM stated that the guns were modified to be made semi-autos and that he could not have legally obtained them as semi-auto with the A grade licence he held. If you want to be taken seriously, stop doing a Trump. You are already spouting off ignorantly about airport security here, don't keep on making yourself look foolish,
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)


Last edited by zooterkin; 16th March 2019 at 07:45 AM.
PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:28 AM   #704
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 19,662
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Oh good. This murderer didn’t get his guns legally. You must tell your PM.
No he didn't get them to be semi-automatics legally, and the PM stated exactly that, but you keep on lying about what she said.
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:29 AM   #705
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,361
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
No anger. Asking someone why they think something doesn't come from a place of anger. Just applying our skepticism toolbox.
On the contrary it is classic anger
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:29 AM   #706
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 14,309
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
NZ has stricter gun laws than the US. I guess it's a matter of opinion but here in the US it already seems rather strict to most gun owners. Of course criminals don't mind since they never abide by those laws anyway.

Chris B.
...and Australia has even stricter firearms laws; they learned their lesson after Port Arthur.... we've just learned our lesson. America has had several lessons, and hasn't learned anything,

Also, you need to keep in mind that owning a firearm in New Zealand is a privelige, not a right, and its a privilege that can be taken away from you at any time.... and when it is, your guns are usually confiscated as well.

I am a shooter, and a firearms owner... I own three firearms (two bolt action rifles and a shotgun). Nonetheless, I would unreservedly support NZ firearms regulations being brought into line with those of Australia where semi-automatic weapons are outright banned. IMO, there is NO GOOD REASON for any citizen to own a semi-automatic weapon of any kind. They are designed for one purpose and one purpose only... to kill people; as many as possible, as quickly is possible.

Nobody seems to be stating the obvious here, that the most likely reason this Australian came to New Zealand to commit this obscenity is because he could not get the weapons he needed in his native country.
__________________
"Covid-19 doesn't care whether you are a Republican or a Democrat; its an equal opportunity killer" - Joy Reid

If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

Last edited by smartcooky; 16th March 2019 at 03:32 AM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:29 AM   #707
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 18,937
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
You are deliberately cherry picking, the PM stated that the guns were modified to be made semi-autos and that he could not have legally obtained them as semi-auto with the A grade licence he held. If you want to be taken seriously, stop doing a Trump. You are already spouting off ignorantly about airport security here, don't keep on making yourself look foolish,
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
This is why the government needs to stop pursuing taking down the livestreamed video. I would like to assess the claim that the weapons we're modified to semi automatic myself.

Last edited by zooterkin; 16th March 2019 at 07:45 AM.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:30 AM   #708
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45,455
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
You are deliberately cherry picking, the PM stated that the guns were modified to be made semi-autos and that he could not have legally obtained them as semi-auto with the A grade licence he held. If you want to be taken seriously, stop doing a Trump. You are already spouting off ignorantly about airport security here, don't keep on making yourself look foolish,
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
Why do you not want semi-automatics banned (apart from the few legitimate users like police and the military)?
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill

Last edited by zooterkin; 16th March 2019 at 07:46 AM.
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:30 AM   #709
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,361
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
No he didn't get them to be semi-automatics legally, and the PM stated exactly that, but you keep on lying about what she said.
Sorry Phantom but think they were legal.

Just adapted

Might be wrong though
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:30 AM   #710
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 18,937
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
On the contrary it is classic anger
ETA

Nevermind. Conversation getting moved
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:32 AM   #711
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45,455
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
...and Australia has even stricter firearms laws; they learned their lesson after Port Arthur.... we've just learned our lesson. America has had several lessons, and hasn't learned anything,

Also, you need to keep in mind that owning a firearm in New Zealand is a privelige, not a right, and its a privilege that can be taken away from you at any time.... and when it is, your guns are usually confiscated as well.

I am a shooter, and a firearms owner... I own three firearms (two bolt action rifles and a shotgun). Nonetheless, I would unreservedly support NZ firearms regulations being brought into line with those of Australia where semi-automatic weapons are outright banned. IMO, there is NO GOOD REASON for any citizen to own a semi-automatic weapon of any kind. They are designed for one purpose and one purpose only... to kill people; as many as possible, as quickly is possible.

Nobody seems to be stating the obvious here, that the most likely reason this Australian came to New Zealand to commit this obscenity is because he could not get the weapons he needed in his native country.
Correct on every point.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:32 AM   #712
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 19,662
Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
..."main" is subjective. Your main point appears to be that "you know best, and if you don't agree with me you are uncivilised." But as always YMMV.



If it was "sensible" then you would have no problem answering the questions I gave you earlier in the thread. I'll post them again for you in case you had forgotten what they were:
Along with, if everyone else in the world jumped off a cliff, would you?

lionking is using the ad populum fallacy, that because everyone else uses security theatre that we should too, regardless of the costs to taxpayers and ratepayers who have to foot the bill with a pointless and useless waste of time and money.
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:35 AM   #713
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,361
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
...and Australia has even stricter firearms laws; they learned their lesson after Port Arthur.... we've just learned our lesson. America has had several lessons, and hasn't learned anything,

Also, you need to keep in mind that owning a firearm in New Zealand is a privelige, not a right, and its a privilege that can be taken away from you at any time.... and when it is, your guns are usually confiscated as well.

I am a shooter, and a firearms owner... I own three firearms (two bolt action rifles and a shotgun). Nonetheless, I would unreservedly support NZ firearms regulations being brought into line with those of Australia where semi-automatic weapons are outright banned. IMO, there is NO GOOD REASON for any citizen to own a semi-automatic weapon of any kind. They are designed for one purpose and one purpose only... to kill people; as many as possible, as quickly is possible.

Nobody seems to be stating the obvious here, that the most likely reason this Australian came to New Zealand to commit this obscenity is because he could not get the weapons he needed in his native country.

Probably the most eye opening, blindingly obvious, when I actually think about it sentence on the whole thread.
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:36 AM   #714
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 18,937
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post

I am a shooter, and a firearms owner... I own three firearms (two bolt action rifles and a shotgun). Nonetheless, I would unreservedly support NZ firearms regulations being brought into line with those of Australia where semi-automatic weapons are outright banned. IMO, there is NO GOOD REASON for any citizen to own a semi-automatic weapon of any kind. They are designed for one purpose and one purpose only... to kill people; as many as possible, as quickly is possible.
You stated the good reason to own one. Under certain circumstances, it is almost universally accepted that a person has a right to kill someone as quickly as possible.

Now, you may think that reason isn't outweighed by the amount of senseless death caused by these reasons. But that is different than saying there is no good reason.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:37 AM   #715
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45,455
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Probably the most eye opening, blindingly obvious, when I actually think about it sentence on the whole thread.
Why do you hate NZ?

Joking. You are perfectly correct.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:40 AM   #716
GlennB
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arcadia, Greece
Posts: 26,030
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I am a shooter, and a firearms owner... I own three firearms (two bolt action rifles and a shotgun). Nonetheless, I would unreservedly support NZ firearms regulations being brought into line with those of Australia where semi-automatic weapons are outright banned. IMO, there is NO GOOD REASON for any citizen to own a semi-automatic weapon of any kind. They are designed for one purpose and one purpose only... to kill people; as many as possible, as quickly is possible.
This always bears repeating. However, cue the poster who reckons that hunters sometimes need to get off multiple shots quickly .... No hunter me, but I'd say that that hunter needs to be a better shot rather than rely on semi-auto capability.
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut
GlennB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:41 AM   #717
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,361
Odd development

Sky NZ have pulled Sky Aus coverage of the event because they keep playing the ****

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/111...gs-video-shown
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:46 AM   #718
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 19,662
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
...and Australia has even stricter firearms laws; they learned their lesson after Port Arthur....
Yeah, I guess it's easy to forget the massacre in Perth last year where seven people were shot dead....

Quote:
we've just learned our lesson.
We learned out lesson at Aramoana. Yesterday's event was an aberration that even Australia's laws could not have prevented.

Quote:
Also, you need to keep in mind that owning a firearm in New Zealand is a privelige, not a right, and its a privilege that can be taken away from you at any time.... and when it is, your guns are usually confiscated as well.
True, though really the person needs to have done something to have them taken.

Quote:
I am a shooter, and a firearms owner... I own three firearms (two bolt action rifles and a shotgun). Nonetheless, I would unreservedly support NZ firearms regulations being brought into line with those of Australia where semi-automatic weapons are outright banned. IMO, there is NO GOOD REASON for any citizen to own a semi-automatic weapon of any kind. They are designed for one purpose and one purpose only... to kill people; as many as possible, as quickly is possible.
I disagree with this. Semi-automatics merely reload for you, that is it. There are a lot of semi-automatic hunting rifles, which means that if you miss you can quickly fire again without having to take your eyes off your target to reload. Considering that in NZ all semi-automatics have very restricted magazines, they are not for the purpose of killing people, nor killing them quickly. Not all semi-automatics are AR-15s or AK-47s.

Quote:
Nobody seems to be stating the obvious here, that the most likely reason this Australian came to New Zealand to commit this obscenity is because he could not get the weapons he needed in his native country.
Again you are either misrepresenting the facts or you don't know them, but he stated in his many page diatribe that he didn't come to NZ to do the attack, but to train, and it was only when he realised that NZ was "not safe from the invaders" and "filled with targets" that he decided to do the attack here.

As to the guns, assuming the PM was correct as well as experts who have discussed it, the guns were A class ones that had been modified to be E class, so it's quite possible he might have been about to get and modify them in Australia too. The Magazines are totally illegal here, so here or Australia doesn't matter.
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:48 AM   #719
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45,455
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Odd development

Sky NZ have pulled Sky Aus coverage of the event because they keep playing the ****

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/111...gs-video-shown
The only footage I’ve seen is the lead up to the shooting, not the shootings themselves. If this is all Sky NZ is worried about, they are overreacting.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th March 2019, 03:48 AM   #720
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 19,662
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
You stated the good reason to own one. Under certain circumstances, it is almost universally accepted that a person has a right to kill someone as quickly as possible.

Now, you may think that reason isn't outweighed by the amount of senseless death caused by these reasons. But that is different than saying there is no good reason.
Using a gun in self defense is not am acceptable reason to have one here, and no it's not "universally accepted that a person has a right to kill someone as quickly as possible." Not even "Almost".
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:18 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.