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Tags 2020 elections , joe biden , presidential candidates

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Old 10th March 2020, 09:35 PM   #481
Delvo
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Now would be a good time to show how my comment, in context of the previous several posts that weren't about left & right, had anything to do with left & right.
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Old 10th March 2020, 09:36 PM   #482
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Wow, yall are desperate.
Desperate for what? I said a long time ago, I'd vote for any Democrat over Trump and probably 99 percent of the Republican party. I will vote for Bernie if he turns things around and secures the nomination.
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Old 10th March 2020, 10:24 PM   #483
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Desperate for what?
Any excuse to pretend that there's nothing wrong with Biden's brain.

Denying all the perfectly clear signs of it right in front of all our faces is one thing, but this "well he had one okay day with one round of non-ineptly reading a teleprompter, and that means he's doing not just okay but even better than the vast majority of humans" grasping goes another couple of steps well beyond that. Yall can't seriously tell me you really honestly think brain problems always show their symptoms equally and the people who have them never ever just seem better at some times than at other times.

And even if we were to just accept or ignore that, there's that second step beyond even that: claiming one episode of no major screw-ups not only brings him up to normal overall but shows what a very stable genius he is, intellectually soaring above us mere normals at nearly unimaginable heights. Taking one's defense against a claim so far that one ends up claiming the original's reversal instead of merely its falsification is almost never a good sign.

Have you never seen a kid responding to insults against something or somebody the kid likes by concocting some wild fantasy about how that thing/person/animal/place/whatever (possibly himself/herself) is not just not bad in the stated way, but really the bestest one around? (For example, "No, I'm not bad at baseball; in fact, on my other team you've never seen or heard of, I'm the star of the team!"... or "No, that show/band I like isn't stupid; it's the best show/band ever and yours are stupid!"... or, closer to this situation, "No, my dog isn't stupid; he's the smartest dog ever! He knows all kinds of tricks that I'm not going to show you!") Come on now. Yall know how pitiful that sounds. It doesn't even matter how true or untrue the original accusation was; at that point, you make it all about how sad your fantasizing is instead.
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Old 10th March 2020, 10:45 PM   #484
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Biden for President?

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Oh, come on. That man was never going to vote for a Dem. He's clearly of the mentality that the 'gubmin is gunna take mah guns away' and those people tend to vote Republican.



And Biden did try and "correct the record" when he said "I support the 2nd Amendment" and told the worker that he and his son own guns but asked why anyone needs high capacity rounds.





https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...gn-stop-125020
Ok...Iím just sayiní: letís see how telling off the deplorables right in their faces works in the general.

Quote:
Yes, I do want "gun nuts" (your words, not mine)
Which words would you use?
Quote:
to be told off like that. When they make false accusations, usually fed to them through right wing media, they need to be told off in language they might just understand.

Why would you care as you think anything that Dr. Lee says is inappropriate and irrelevant unless she has interviewed someone in person?

Myself? I donít care; I do indeed think that mental health professionals should stay out. However, if they do decide to chime in, Iím very interested in how their opinions are taken by those who have argued that we should take them seriously in re: Trump.

Although, I donít think we will hear anything so negative from them when it comes to Biden. Iíd bet that their opinions about Trump were mostly political in nature and that they wonít speak out about how ďdangerousĒ it might be to have a candidate who directly threatens voters. Time will tell.
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Old 10th March 2020, 10:52 PM   #485
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Very close in ND (abt. 500 votes) and WA (abt. 2,000).
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Old 10th March 2020, 11:12 PM   #486
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Very close in ND (abt. 500 votes) and WA (abt. 2,000).
If Sanders had the ghost of a chance he would have cleaned those ones up.

As it is, he's toast.

I mean, as someone who enjoys the drama, I look forward to the debate, but anyone who thinks Sanders still has a chance is a dreamer.
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Old 10th March 2020, 11:27 PM   #487
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Ok...Iím just sayiní: letís see how telling off the deplorables right in their faces works in the general.
Won't matter. Those who think the Dems are out to take their guns away wouldn't vote Dem anyway.

Quote:
Which words would you use?
Depends on whom we're talking about. Gun owners who want stricter laws on background checks, support a national registry, banning high-capacity magazines and .50-caliber ammunition, and banning assault style rifles or.....
those who don't. I call the former 'responsible gun owners' and the latter 'idiot gun nuts'.

Quote:
Myself? I donít care; I do indeed think that mental health professionals should stay out. However, if they do decide to chime in, Iím very interested in how their opinions are taken by those who have argued that we should take them seriously in re: Trump.
Nope. You said :
Quote:
Although, it does make me wonder what Dr. Lee et. al. have to say about the mental state of a candidate who directly threatens a voter . .
You've moved it from "it does make me wonder what Dr. Lee et. al. have to say" to "how their opinions are taken "by those who have argued that we should take them seriously".


Quote:
Although, I donít think we will hear anything so negative from them when it comes to Biden. Iíd bet that their opinions about Trump were mostly political in nature and that they wonít speak out about how ďdangerousĒ it might be to have a candidate who directly threatens voters. Time will tell.
Biden didn't seriously threaten anyone, much less "voterS".

Quote:
"This is not OK, alright?" the man said, to which Biden replied, "Don't tell me that, pal, or I'm going to go outside with you, man."
Yep, going outside with someone is a really serious threat. I bet the guy was shaking in his boots.
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Old 10th March 2020, 11:53 PM   #488
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Any excuse to pretend that there's nothing wrong with Biden's brain.

Denying all the perfectly clear signs of it right in front of all our faces is one thing, but this "well he had one okay day with one round of non-ineptly reading a teleprompter, and that means he's doing not just okay but even better than the vast majority of humans" grasping goes another couple of steps well beyond that. Yall can't seriously tell me you really honestly think brain problems always show their symptoms equally and the people who have them never ever just seem better at some times than at other times.
Once we become convinced of something, everything we see...or think we see... after that is interpreted according to what we already believe. We look for whatever we think confirms our bias. You've become convinced that Biden has dementia so any gaffe, any screw up, any fumbling over a word, anything less than perfect is seen as confirmation that you're right.

If it's so obvious, as you say, that Biden is losing it, then would you care to explain why millions of people don't see it the way you do?


Quote:
And even if we were to just accept or ignore that, there's that second step beyond even that: claiming one episode of no major screw-ups not only brings him up to normal overall but shows what a very stable genius he is, intellectually soaring above us mere normals at nearly unimaginable heights. Taking one's defense against a claim so far that one ends up claiming the original's reversal instead of merely its falsification is almost never a good sign.
If you're referring to Suddenly's post, I think he was being tongue in cheek.
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Old 11th March 2020, 12:38 AM   #489
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
DO I have to explain how statistical sampling works?
Evidently you need to learn how statistical sampling works. Or more specifically when and why it's unreliable. What happened in Michigan this year that might make exit polling, say from the NEP, inconclusive Boys and Girls?

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Old 11th March 2020, 01:52 AM   #490
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
If it's so obvious, as you say, that Biden is losing it, then would you care to explain why millions of people don't see it the way you do?
By not having paid attention yet. That's always the biggest category in American election campaigns.

But Biden also has two other categories of supporters: those who know it and deny it, and those who know it and admit it. Both vote for him for some other reason, not because they really think he's all there. The main one they themselves give is "electability".

Presuming they manage to get him the nomination, watching them come up with the excuses when he loses the general election will be fascinating.

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Old 11th March 2020, 02:38 AM   #491
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So, it's Biden then, I'm reading? Is this accurate?

That was a close one. The owners of the USA might have had a tricky time for a while there. dodged a bullet, I feel.
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Old 11th March 2020, 03:14 AM   #492
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
So, it's Biden then, I'm reading? Is this accurate?
It's not settled yet, but that does look more likely. (People acting as if it were already absolute remind me of a thread from before November 2016 in which people were calling Hillary & Trump "candidates" and somebody posted, paraphrased, "Shouldn't we be calling her President-Elect now?", to which I responded at the time "Of course, because nothing ever goes wrong predicting the future".) Biden is ahead in the score, and Bernie's campaign has stuck to some tactical/strategic decisions that weren't very effective and doesn't show any signs of changing, and even if they did change their campaign methods now, it might be too late. The main way for it to change now would be for enough people to be affected by what they see in the next debate, which will be the first one that's 1:1. The DNC is still worried Bernie might win. If they weren't, they wouldn't be manipulating the debate rules to try to help Biden survive.

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Old 11th March 2020, 03:27 AM   #493
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
...If they weren't, they wouldn't be manipulating the debate rules to try to help Biden survive.

Thank you.

The above extract is what freaks me out. People are utterly incapable of spotting a biased press. It's depressing.

Given it's so tight Imagine the landslide Bernie would have had in a fair contest.
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Old 11th March 2020, 03:41 AM   #494
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What debate rules have they been manipulating precisely? The more appropriate conclusion when your favored candidate loses is not that some entity has been cheating through shadowy means...

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Old 11th March 2020, 03:44 AM   #495
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Is there any daylight between "kiss his butt" and "cuss at him" perhaps?
With a guy who's repeatedly accusing Biden of "tryna take ma gunz!" based on a viral video, and in today's political climate? Unfortunately, probably not- sometimes, and with some people, you just have to use the only language that they will understand.

Do I wish it were otherwise? Oh, you bet. I doubt that there was ever really a time in American politics when "I disagree with my distinguished opponent" was the reigning paradigm for it- it's probably no rougher now than it was when Jefferson was accused of being an atheist, or Grover Cleveland's illegitimate child was a campaign tool to be used against him (to use the two examples that come most readily to mind). It's certainly more immediate, but not, on a basic level, really any dirtier. But here's the thing- the righties spent many years doing everything they could to blacken Clinton, Obama, and then the other Clinton, by foul means as much as, if not more than, fair ones. (And, yes, it worked the other way around too, with lefties getting in the gutter against the Bushes). And they've spent the last three years toadying to the petty, mean-spirited moron currently in the White House, a guy who can't go a day without spewing insults against everyone and anyone who* he thinks is crossing him. So, even though I wish people could be less shrill about politics, it is what it is- the righties don't now get to clutch their beads and purse their mouths in faux dismay because a candidate whose views they oppose defended himself by telling one of them, in language he could grasp, exactly what he thought. (Not saying you're one of those righties- I don't actually have any idea of your political views, and it's not relevant anyway)

*Or "whom"- I've always had trouble knowing which was proper.
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Old 11th March 2020, 03:51 AM   #496
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
*Or "whom"- I've always had trouble knowing which was proper.
Change the question to an answer. If the answer is 'Him', it's whom. If the answer is 'He', it's who.
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Old 11th March 2020, 03:57 AM   #497
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Change the question to an answer. If the answer is 'Him', it's whom. If the answer is 'He', it's who.
Ah. Ok. I get it. I think. I'll try that next time I have to use the construction- ah, hell. No, I'll still get it wrong- whom am I kidding?
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Old 11th March 2020, 03:58 AM   #498
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Ah. Ok. I get it. I think. I'll try that next time I have to use the construction- ah, hell. No, I'll still get it wrong- whom am I kidding?


I don't know that it works all the time. Someone who actually understands it will come along and tell me instances in which I'm wrong soon, I'm sure.

Apologies for the derail.
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Old 11th March 2020, 04:15 AM   #499
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
What debate rules have they been manipulating precisely? The more appropriate conclusion when your favored candidate loses is not that some entity has been cheating through shadowy means...
They've changed the ordinary 1 on 1 debate to a seated, audience Q&A format. It will be much more difficult for the candidates to spar directly or for moderators to ask pointed questions.

Some have interpreted this as a rule change that favors Biden. I think any amount of extended camera time for Biden is probably detrimental to his chances, but at this point it may be too late.
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Old 11th March 2020, 04:37 AM   #500
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Yep, going outside with someone is a really serious threat. I bet the guy was shaking in his boots.
Surely the question isn't whether the guy thought the threat to be real and that Biden would win in a fight, but whether it's a good thing for a potential presidential candidate to be offering to fight anybody?

I know that the bar has been lowered considerably in the last few years, but is it really okay for the president to be the kind of person who responds to someone saying something that they don't like with threats of physical violence? This is one of the things Trump is criticised for (although he only does it from a distance, never actually in someone's face). Should people stop criticising Trump for it because it's actually okay after all?
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Old 11th March 2020, 05:08 AM   #501
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Biden told the guy he was going to take the"AR-14s" and later said the AR-15s are illegal. Biden can't find his posterior with both hands. There is no way this bullying loon who has no idea about what is going on in the world will ever be POTUS.
You are in no position to call anyone a bully until you boot the one in the White House out.
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Old 11th March 2020, 05:10 AM   #502
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
OK, Boomer
Go back to school, GenZ.
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Old 11th March 2020, 05:13 AM   #503
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post


Do you realize you excluded "women" from the group "blacks?"

This place.....is quite revealing.........
Well it's revealed to us that you don't understand set theory.
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Old 11th March 2020, 05:17 AM   #504
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
By not having paid attention yet.
I have a different theory: maybe you're overstating the problem.

Quote:
If they weren't, they wouldn't be manipulating the debate rules to try to help Biden survive.
You live in a fantasy world. Sanders was always going to be the underdog.
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Old 11th March 2020, 05:42 AM   #505
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Sanders was always going to be the underdog.
And I'm getting the impression that's exactly where they want him. All of this might be a feature, not a bug.

As long as Sanders is an "also ran" he can fill role in their narrative he needs them to, a messiah figure that would "fix the system if only get got the chance. And conveniently I'm beginning to think they know as well as we do that he will never get that chance

President Sanders would never live up to the mythology, especially since as already discussed you couldn't design a person who would actually get less done in the climate of Washington D.C. then Bernie Sanders. President Sanders would either look incompetent or have to compromise some of his precious "standards" to get anything done. Either way his followers would smell the blood in the water and eat him alive for not being pure enough.

An idealistic person who you know, even if you don't admit it to others, hell even if you don't admit it to yourself, never has a chance of winning... that person can be your savior forever.

The Left in general is bad about this anyway they define both themselves and the narrative via the whole "underdog" thing it's functionally becoming so they reject anyone who has an actual chance of winning and simply aren't going to be happy until they can run someone who can win while at the same time have no chance of winning.

That's what happens when you start to build more and more of your party's self identity on "Power is bad" it kind of doesn't leave you much of a way to get power.
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Old 11th March 2020, 05:47 AM   #506
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
President Sanders would never live up to the mythology, especially since as already discussed you couldn't design a person who would actually get less done in the climate of Washington D.C. then Bernie Sanders.
Who told you this?

Seriously, the man has been battling against the establishment, and winning political fights all of his life.

The "He's not a decent political operator" is straight out of the electric cool aid dispenser.


The whole western world needs a new standard for journalism, because what we have now only works for those that own it.
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Old 11th March 2020, 05:55 AM   #507
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
The whole western world needs a new standard for journalism, because what we have now only works for those that own it.
Do you just cut and paste the "If it weren't the Fake News then you'd see Dear Leader for what his really is?" screeds directly from the Trumpers or do you write your own?
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Old 11th March 2020, 06:07 AM   #508
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
So, it's Biden then, I'm reading? Is this accurate?

That was a close one. The owners of the USA might have had a tricky time for a while there. dodged a bullet, I feel.
Yes.

Sanders supports, including myself, who have been slaughtering electrons going on about Democrats addressing the weaknesses and avoiding the mistakes that the party made in 2016 need to come to terms with the fact that it is becoming more and more obvious that Sanders has not addressed his 2016 weaknesses or avoided the mistakes he made in 2016.

In 2016 he was slaughtered in early primaries in the South and was more or less mathematically eliminated. In 2020, well...

He had four years to address his lack of support among black Democrats, and has done next to zero to do so. He seems to be convinced that since on the whole black Democrats like his policies more that should be the end of it. It isn't. The relationship black Democrats have with the party is, especially in the south, something it appears Sanders still doesn't get.

I'd assumed he'd addressed this in some meaningful way, but it appears I was dead wrong. There are going to be a lot of Sanders supporters, mostly white, saying either directly or by vague implication that it is the fault of the black vote that Bernie lost, and not the fault of Bernie for not speaking to their concerns.

Sanders is not going to lose this primary because of some concerted DNC effort to whatever. That wasn't going to keep him from getting wrecked in the south. He's going to lose it because he didn't manage to fix his biggest weakness from last time, and that is 100% on him.
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Old 11th March 2020, 06:08 AM   #509
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It really comes down to an intense generational divide.

Polling shows that Bernie overwhelmingly popular with people under 45. Biden overwhelming popular among those over 45.

Seems like an irreconcilable difference. May just have to wait for this generation to die off before any meaningful reform can occur.
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Old 11th March 2020, 06:10 AM   #510
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Do you just cut and paste the "If it weren't the Fake News then you'd see Dear Leader for what his really is?" screeds directly from the Trumpers or do you write your own?
No, this is all my own work.

I think you're wrong. I think you're wrong due to lousy, biased propaganda disguised as journalism.

That my comment takes a similar form to other, less accurate comments is not a criticism I find valid.

I note you didn't answer the question - hell you didn't even quote it - but I don't really mind.
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Old 11th March 2020, 06:11 AM   #511
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It really comes down to an intense generational divide.

Polling shows that Bernie overwhelmingly popular with people under 45. Biden overwhelming popular among those over 45.

Seems like an irreconcilable difference. May just have to wait for this generation to die off before any meaningful reform can occur.
Which is great. But instead of just waiting for the over 45s to die (and seriously, is Bernie going to be around when they are gone?), why not get the under 45s out to vote!
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Old 11th March 2020, 06:12 AM   #512
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It really comes down to an intense generational divide.

Polling shows that Bernie overwhelmingly popular with people under 45. Biden overwhelming popular among those over 45.

Seems like an irreconcilable difference. May just have to wait for this generation to die off before any meaningful reform can occur.
That's fancy way of saying "That's weird. The people who actually vote seem to be the only ones who keep getting what they want."
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Old 11th March 2020, 06:12 AM   #513
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Which is great. But instead of just waiting for the over 45s to die (and seriously, is Bernie going to be around when they are gone?), why not get the under 45s out to vote!
I wish I could. I knocked on doors. I'm not a non-voting young person, so I can't explain why they are so disinclined to pry boomer hands off the levers of power.

Biden supporters ready to dance on the grave of Sanders' campaign should also remember that they will inherit this low voter turnout. Party unity means these disenchanted Sanders people are now even more disenchanted Biden people. Congrats!

If Sanders can't get them out to vote, Biden definitely can't. Hope you old boys can do it on your own, there's a lot riding on it.
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Old 11th March 2020, 06:15 AM   #514
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
That's fancy way of saying "That's weird. The people who actually vote seem to be the only ones who keep getting what they want."
It's also saying "people who disagree with me should die off."
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Old 11th March 2020, 06:17 AM   #515
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
And I'm getting the impression that's exactly where they want him. All of this might be a feature, not a bug.
.
Eh. Biden is going to go from a borderline afterthought to a mathematical lock without having to really be a front runner and deal with the scrutiny that comes with it.

Which is nice for him, but a little scary.
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Old 11th March 2020, 06:17 AM   #516
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
It's also saying "people who disagree with me should die off."
I'm not advocating a culling. Just acknowledging that eventually this unusually large and influential cohort will eventually die. The baby boom was a truly strange event that has had a lot of reverberations.
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Old 11th March 2020, 06:19 AM   #517
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I'm not advocating a culling.
Hence my use of "die off".

I just don't know why you're so hostile to Baby Boomers.
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Old 11th March 2020, 06:19 AM   #518
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Hence my use of "die off".

I just don't know why you're so hostile to Baby Boomers.
Probably because they inherited a prosperous society and handed us over this pile of crap. They have been abysmal stewards of the tremendous gifts they are given, and are totally unapologetic about it.

I swear to God if I hear another story about how some dimwit from the 60's worked part time to pay their college tuition I'm going to pop. Maybe it's because I keep getting asked by clueless Boomers why I'm not having kids while my wife and I are paying 1/3 of our income aggressively towards student debt. If nothing bad happens, we might finally be debt free in our 40's. Just in time for infertility to kick in.
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Old 11th March 2020, 06:20 AM   #519
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I just don't know why you're so hostile to Baby Boomers.
Because as a demographic, talking as a demographic and only as a demographic they really, really suck and have done a lot of damage.

Not all of it of their own doing, but certain things just aren't going to get better while they are in charge.
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Old 11th March 2020, 06:25 AM   #520
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Surely the question isn't whether the guy thought the threat to be real and that Biden would win in a fight, but whether it's a good thing for a potential presidential candidate to be offering to fight anybody?

I know that the bar has been lowered considerably in the last few years, but is it really okay for the president to be the kind of person who responds to someone saying something that they don't like with threats of physical violence? This is one of the things Trump is criticised for (although he only does it from a distance, never actually in someone's face). Should people stop criticising Trump for it because it's actually okay after all?
One might point out that the man in question was right up in Bidens' grill when the exchange took place. And, indeed, called out Biden with an accusation right from the start. Was as tall as Biden, and thirty to forty years younger.
Biden is clearly no threat to the mans' person, yet need not allow himself to be berated due to that.

Trump would never react in that manner, IMO, when his adversary was right in his face.
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