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Tags 2020 elections , joe biden , presidential candidates

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Old 12th March 2020, 04:57 PM   #681
theprestige
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
The point is that IMV it is impossible to separate the two things even if you believe you are.
What happens when we dismiss all of your good ideas with "it's just biased partisan douchebaggery; it doesn't count"?

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Old 12th March 2020, 05:12 PM   #682
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What happens when we dismiss all of your good ideas with "it's just biased partisan douchebaggery; it doesn't count"?
I'm not saying that. Whether he is making a good argument stands or falls on it's own merit. But it is people's nature to build upon their previous positions.
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Old 12th March 2020, 05:17 PM   #683
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post

Although, it does make me wonder what Dr. Lee et. al. have to say about the mental state of a candidate who directly threatens a voter . . .
Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post

I’d bet that their opinions about Trump were mostly political in nature and that they won’t speak out about how “dangerous” it might be to have a candidate who directly threatens voters. Time will tell.
Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
We are discussing Biden and his mental health which is germane to his candidacy. There’s going to be some drift in that topic. I would argue vehemently that it’s not a derail but very much on topic.
Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Right. He's been inappropriately touching women for years now, for example. It may not be dementia or a mental illness, but it sure isn't right either, now is it? This is what I'm talking about. The label you put on the behavior is irrelevant; it's the behavior itself that we should be concerned with.

Biden has not seen a psychiatrist/psychologist, that we know of.Which was done by a Family Medicine doctorHe didn't have an MRI done. He had a CT angiogram in 2014, but that only looks for problems like the aneurysm he previously had. Presumably they did the same kind of cognitive test that was done on Trump and found no issues worth working up further -but that isn't in the actual doctor's report.

But let's go back to something more fundamental. Agression towards others, inappropriate touching of women, apparent confusion . . . those aren't good things in a President, right? Why aren't you -and let's try to leave Trump out of it for a moment- a little bit alarmed at those things?
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
No, mentioning what other people have made/are making/will make the same or similar statements is not addressing the argument.

It's an associative fallacy.

The frequency of it is on the rise and in a disturbingly tribalistic way.

"People not in my tribe make this argument, therefore it is wrong and others making the same point are potentially tainted."
Xjx388 has questioned Biden's mental health himself. That is not just/only "mentioning what other people have made/are making/will make the same or similar statements".

The main claim that Biden has dementia is being fueled straight from Sanders supporters. Xjx388 is a Sanders supporter. He has questioned Biden's mental health. So claiming it's an associative fallacy is false.

It doesn't matter that Xjx388 says he'll vote for Biden if he is the candidate. That's only because he doesn't want Trump more.
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Old 12th March 2020, 05:33 PM   #684
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It doesn't matter that Xjx388 says he'll vote for Biden if he is the candidate. That's only because he doesn't want Trump more.
One of the things which endlessly frustrated me in 2016 was watching Bernie bros in safe red/blue states talk a load of **** about Clinton (to include signal boosting stolen dox) on public social media right up until election day, then cast a vote for her and act like that somehow makes up for it. Like, dude, you know that your memetic effects are more powerful than your electoral effects, yeah?

ETA: I expect to see this play out once again.
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Old 12th March 2020, 07:46 PM   #685
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I'm not going to engage with your obvious trolling. Try someone else.
Translation: I have no counter-argument but I need to get the content free last word.
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Old 12th March 2020, 07:48 PM   #686
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
A few assumptions there, which I'm not going to indulge you in unpicking.
Another content free reply from you. Hope your stamina is up to par cause I'm not done with you yet. See my next post.....
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Old 12th March 2020, 07:58 PM   #687
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I didn't respond to everything you said, but I did read and understand it all. I'm just saying that if the goal is to strive for equality between black people and white people then voting for the guy with a long track record of working towards equality between black people and white people might be a better strategy than voting for the guy who has worked towards increasing inequality between black people and white people and who is still saying things that are, to be kind, questionable (such as that reparations for slavery can be made in part by sending social workers into black people's homes to teach them how to raise their children).

But I understand that people aren't robots and that why people vote how they vote is a more complicated issue than just that.
Yeah well guess what? Black people don't care about your stupid logic pretzels. They're going to continue voting for establishment democrats and no amount of convoluted reasoning of the white man is going to change that. Blacks also voted for Hillary Clinton over Sanders in 2016 so your bugman opinion pieces about Biden are completely irrelevant (of course it's one written by a white man telling black people how they should feel).

Since you spam this place with stupid hyperlinks you owe it to this forum to read someone else's links. (this article is written by a black person Gasp!) Read this and understand how naive, ignorant, and I daresay, racist (I don't often use that word as a pejorative but here it's fitting) you're coming across.

https://www.theroot.com/an-open-lett...tio-1842100419

I'd advise you not to talk about black people in general cause every time you do you put your foot in your mouth. It's obvious you're the type of white person that thinks he can get in black people's good graces by saying how put upon black people are and wants to convince them he's an "ally.".... um, no. Your lack of experience around blacks is obvious.

Last edited by Baylor; 12th March 2020 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 12th March 2020, 08:48 PM   #688
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I didn't respond to everything you said, but I did read and understand it all. I'm just saying that if the goal is to strive for equality between black people and white people then voting for the guy with a long track record of working towards equality between black people and white people might be a better strategy than voting for the guy who has worked towards increasing inequality between black people and white people and who is still saying things that are, to be kind, questionable (such as that reparations for slavery can be made in part by sending social workers into black people's homes to teach them how to raise their children).

But I understand that people aren't robots and that why people vote how they vote is a more complicated issue than just that.
Very true - but again, they don't really trust any white person to strive towards equality. Or rather, they learned long ago, by being backstabbed by a long list of white people, that putting too much trust in a white person could be fatal. And, Like me, they were fully expecting a backlash as soon as Obama was elected back in 2008...which we're right in the middle of, today. But they know that they control at least the dems in their neighborhoods. So, that's something they can use. to help. They'd likely vote for three kids in a trenchcoat before Sanders, if the kids were reliable democrats. And that's because there's no guarantee that Sanders wouldn't just leave the party yet again as soon as he's elected. This might have played differently had Sanders stayed in the party, worked with the CBC, showed up in communities to listen, and so on. But he simply...did no groundwork. No different than the immensely unpopular Mayor Pete (Who I was warning would have a tough time, not long after he first entered the race). Biden did.

Are they acting out of emotion? Well, yes. But we all do that, and in this case, their emotions are based on actual experiences, instead of wild stories of hulking black "thugs" that many use to justify shooting teenagers and cops body-slamming bikini-clad girls.

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Old 12th March 2020, 09:10 PM   #689
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Xjx388 has questioned Biden's mental health himself. That is not just/only "mentioning what other people have made/are making/will make the same or similar statements".

The main claim that Biden has dementia is being fueled straight from Sanders supporters. Xjx388 is a Sanders supporter. He has questioned Biden's mental health. So claiming it's an associative fallacy is false.

It doesn't matter that Xjx388 says he'll vote for Biden if he is the candidate. That's only because he doesn't want Trump more.
Keeping in mind that I don't agree with the snap analysis of "Dementia" while also maintaining that I just personally have some doubts about his clarity/temperment/what-have-you, for full disclosure.

I still have to point out that none of the information provided is a basis for rejecting the claim. Sure, we all assign provisional probability through whatever formula we like.

Also, I accept it is xjx's claim that bears burden. Volleying back and forth appeals to credentials was at least opening up discussion about how to tell what's up with him. As I've said, it's the increasing use of any piece of information being reduced down to who's "side" it helps as part of the consideration of the information itself.
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Old 12th March 2020, 09:18 PM   #690
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I never woulda guessed Soundgarten is Boomer music...
I don't know, man, tonight the Foo Fighters are having a concert on PBS ...
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Old 13th March 2020, 01:27 AM   #691
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Did I say what Biden did was okay?
Do you think it's okay? And I'm not asking whether or not you think it's a "wise" tactic, but whether or not it's the kind of thing you think it's okay for a president to say.

Quote:
What Trump said and what Biden said are not comparable.
Here what you've done is quoted other things that Trump has said, lumped them in with what I've quoted him as saying, and then used your dismissal of the other things to dismiss what we were actually talking about without addressing that at all.
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Old 13th March 2020, 01:30 AM   #692
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Since you spam this place with stupid hyperlinks you owe it to this forum to read someone else's links.
I don't owe you anything, and I'm not going to engage you in your obvious dishonesty, straw-manning, and trolling. Sorry. You might have better luck with someone else.
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Old 13th March 2020, 01:34 AM   #693
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Very true - but again, they don't really trust any white person to strive towards equality. Or rather, they learned long ago, by being backstabbed by a long list of white people, that putting too much trust in a white person could be fatal. And, Like me, they were fully expecting a backlash as soon as Obama was elected back in 2008...which we're right in the middle of, today. But they know that they control at least the dems in their neighborhoods. So, that's something they can use. to help. They'd likely vote for three kids in a trenchcoat before Sanders, if the kids were reliable democrats. And that's because there's no guarantee that Sanders wouldn't just leave the party yet again as soon as he's elected. This might have played differently had Sanders stayed in the party, worked with the CBC, showed up in communities to listen, and so on. But he simply...did no groundwork. No different than the immensely unpopular Mayor Pete (Who I was warning would have a tough time, not long after he first entered the race). Biden did.

Are they acting out of emotion? Well, yes. But we all do that, and in this case, their emotions are based on actual experiences, instead of wild stories of hulking black "thugs" that many use to justify shooting teenagers and cops body-slamming bikini-clad girls.
As I say, it's understandable, and I'm definitely not saying that it's racist.
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Old 13th March 2020, 11:09 AM   #694
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I don't owe you anything, and I'm not going to engage you in your obvious dishonesty, straw-manning, and trolling. Sorry. You might have better luck with someone else.
If you were honest that you could no longer engage I'd accept your surrender.

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
As I say, it's understandable, and I'm definitely not saying that it's racist.
Guess what again? Black people don't care if it's "racist." You're again projecting white man thinking onto black people. British people do these Sargonesque logic pretzels a lot -- believing non-whites think exactly like they do. And the brilliant British Sargonites are going to convince all the non-whites to give up their racial identity and they'll be a society of atomized individuals who "don't care about race." Guess what again? That's never going to happen.

Blacks vote along racial lines about 90% of the time. It's been that way for a long time and it's not going to change any time soon. You think blacks should vote for Sanders over Biden because Sanders is "less racist." You think this because your worldview is so entirely stupid and backwards. Blacks will always prefer establishment Democrats and you saying it's "a shame" is proof of your disdain for them. Go convince Muslims to vote Tory, you'd have a lot better luck.
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Old 13th March 2020, 11:50 AM   #695
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
I don't know, man, tonight the Foo Fighters are having a concert on PBS ...
Green Day recently played a set on Good Morning America.
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Old 13th March 2020, 02:45 PM   #696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacyhs
Did I say what Biden did was okay? :
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Do you think it's okay? And I'm not asking whether or not you think it's a "wise" tactic, but whether or not it's the kind of thing you think it's okay for a president to say.
Do I think it's "okay"? Not really. But it's certainly not something that merits the reactions we've seen from some people. Mountain/molehill.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StacyhsI said it wasn't a wise thing to do but that it wasn't a real threat. Neither was what you quoted Trump saying. It was male posturing. But Trump has made other statements that did indicate support for others to actually be violent

Quote:
Here what you've done is quoted other things that Trump has said, lumped them in with what I've quoted him as saying, and then used your dismissal of the other things to dismiss what we were actually talking about without addressing that at all.
No. Seems to me I addressed it. I said the Trump quote you provided was not a real threat which puts it in the same category as the Biden statement.
That makes is separate and distinct from the other Trump quotes where he is inciting others to violence.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 13th March 2020 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 13th March 2020, 09:35 PM   #697
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Xjx388 has questioned Biden's mental health himself. That is not just/only "mentioning what other people have made/are making/will make the same or similar statements".



The main claim that Biden has dementia is being fueled straight from Sanders supporters. Xjx388 is a Sanders supporter. He has questioned Biden's mental health. So claiming it's an associative fallacy is false.



It doesn't matter that Xjx388 says he'll vote for Biden if he is the candidate. That's only because he doesn't want Trump more.


I swear...I’ve been accused of being a supporter of a crazy range of political candidates. From Trump to Sanders and Biden-by-default.

Why the hell would it matter who I support? Maybe, no matter who I support, I make an attempt to not let that bias how I analyze things. Maybe the argument shouldn’t be about xjx388’s choice of candidate?
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Old 14th March 2020, 12:09 AM   #698
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I swear...I’ve been accused of being a supporter of a crazy range of political candidates. From Trump to Sanders and Biden-by-default.

Why the hell would it matter who I support? Maybe, no matter who I support, I make an attempt to not let that bias how I analyze things. Maybe the argument shouldn’t be about xjx388’s choice of candidate?
Ok. The argument should be about why a particular group is spreading groundless rumors that Biden has dementia and that there is a conspiracy to put him in the WH anyway.
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Old 14th March 2020, 12:30 AM   #699
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Ok. The argument should be about why a particular group is spreading groundless rumors that Biden has dementia and that there is a conspiracy to put him in the WH anyway.
I think those verbal mishaps really do sound like something a stutterer would say. Not that I care, I would support a golden retriever over Trump...
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Old 14th March 2020, 01:18 AM   #700
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
If you were honest that you could no longer engage I'd accept your surrender.


Guess what again? Black people don't care if it's "racist." You're again projecting white man thinking onto black people. British people do these Sargonesque logic pretzels a lot -- believing non-whites think exactly like they do. And the brilliant British Sargonites are going to convince all the non-whites to give up their racial identity and they'll be a society of atomized individuals who "don't care about race." Guess what again? That's never going to happen.

Blacks vote along racial lines about 90% of the time. It's been that way for a long time and it's not going to change any time soon. You think blacks should vote for Sanders over Biden because Sanders is "less racist." You think this because your worldview is so entirely stupid and backwards. Blacks will always prefer establishment Democrats and you saying it's "a shame" is proof of your disdain for them. Go convince Muslims to vote Tory, you'd have a lot better luck.
I'm not going to engage you in your obvious dishonesty, straw-manning, and trolling. Sorry. You might have better luck with someone else.
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Old 14th March 2020, 01:19 AM   #701
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Do I think it's "okay"? Not really. But it's certainly not something that merits the reactions we've seen from some people. Mountain/molehill.
Okay, then.

Quote:
No. Seems to me I addressed it.
Well, you didn't.
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Old 14th March 2020, 12:19 PM   #702
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Okay, then.



Well, you didn't.
I can't help it if you don't understand it.
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Old 14th March 2020, 04:34 PM   #703
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wrong thread
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Old 15th March 2020, 11:11 AM   #704
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The argument should be about why a particular group is spreading groundless rumors that Biden has dementia and that there is a conspiracy to put him in the WH anyway.
It's been his own people who have openly told us all that they're trying to avoid putting him in afternoon/evening events and minimizing his speaking time, and who demanded that the debate be done sitting, with a less confrontational format, without the most confrontational remaining candidate, and then finally no "debate" at all and even no more state primaries. If the people who know him best didn't know even better than us outsiders that there's something wrong with him, they wouldn't be so dedicated to trying to keep him out of sight & out of mind. This is the behavior of people who are aware & afraid he has a reasonably high probability of imploding if too many people see too much of what he's really like. If they were confident in him, they'd be trying to put him out there as much as possible.

And since they know the rest of the campaign after the convention would only continue to make it harder and harder to hide him enough, which can only decrease his electoral competitiveness, they also know that whatever problem they're trying to hide could easily cost him the general election. So this not only demonstrates that they're aware of his problem and discussing it among themselves, but also that they care more about stopping progressives than about stopping Trump.
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Old 15th March 2020, 02:14 PM   #705
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Dem.................. stands for dementia
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Old 15th March 2020, 02:53 PM   #706
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Dem.................. stands for dementia
And yet, that's not even the biggest problem with Biden. Certain people simply arguing about it more than other things just distracts from his record of pushing for massive cuts to Social Security and literally every other assistance program (complete with enraged clarification that he really meant not just SS but everything that helps anybody because the suggestion that he'd limit his attack to just SS was so offensive to him), pushing for crime bills that primarily harass minorities, fighting to protect segregation, pushing for debt bills attacking the poor, voting for every war in sight, fighting for Republican judge nominees, attacking women for lodging sexual harassment complaints, fighting against increasing minimum wage, and flipping his prior stances on things like Medicare For All after taking bribes from related corporations like medical insurance companies (all the way to swearing to veto it even if Democrats in Congress passed it) and spouting Republican lies as the reason why. The problem goes beyond his unelectability. Even if he's elected, it's no win for Democrats. It's the Republicans getting exactly what they want again.
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Old 15th March 2020, 02:59 PM   #707
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
It's been his own people who have openly told us all that they're trying to avoid putting him in afternoon/evening events and minimizing his speaking time, and who demanded that the debate be done sitting, with a less confrontational format, without the most confrontational remaining candidate, and then finally no "debate" at all and even no more state primaries. If the people who know him best didn't know even better than us outsiders that there's something wrong with him, they wouldn't be so dedicated to trying to keep him out of sight & out of mind. This is the behavior of people who are aware & afraid he has a reasonably high probability of imploding if too many people see too much of what he's really like. If they were confident in him, they'd be trying to put him out there as much as possible.
Wow. Those are some claims you've made there. Would you like to present, you know, actual evidence of them?

For example, your claim that it's Biden's "own people...who demanded that the debate be done sitting" is false. That claim comes from Sanders campaign staffers. But the proposal came from the debate moderators:

Quote:
We agreed to the format that CNN proposed on a joint call with the campaigns. We then agreed to a modification of that format that CNN proposed, to compromise with both campaigns. We will participate in whatever debate CNN choses to stage: standing, sitting, at podiums, or in a town hall,” Biden deputy campaign manager Kate Bedingfield said in a statement.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/09/joe-bi...f-next-debate/

Quote:
The new format would be a town hall-style production featuring audience questions but in a more intimate setting with the candidates in chairs behind desks — similar to the way Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were seated in a few 2008 debates.

After 10 debates, the DNC worked with its network partners to adapt the March debate to the smaller field of candidates and to give voters more of a voice. This format provides candidates longer response times, and for the first time, will incorporate questions from undecided voters in the audience,” DNC spokeswoman Xochitl Hinojosa said.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...-debate-123467

We could investigate the rest of your claims but what it boils down to is that none of it, in any way, supports the "Biden's got dementia" crap that is being spread. Even IF all your claims above about sitting down, less confrontational, without the "most confrontational candidate" (Tulsi G, I assume), etc are true they do not support a claim of dementia. The fact remains that the debate is going to happen tonight which, in itself, is evidence that Biden's campaign does not believe he has dementia. See if you can figure out why.


Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
And since they know the rest of the campaign after the convention would only continue to make it harder and harder to hide him enough, which can only decrease his electoral competitiveness, they also know that whatever problem they're trying to hide could easily cost him the general election. So this not only demonstrates that they're aware of his problem and discussing it among themselves, but also that they care more about stopping progressives than about stopping Trump.
I do so love it when people claim to know what "they" (other people) "know" and "think". Somehow, it always supports what the mind reader already believes. Amazing.
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Old 15th March 2020, 09:24 PM   #708
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After watching the Biden-Sanders debate, which of the "Biden's got dementia" promoters would like to still argue that position?
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Old 16th March 2020, 05:09 AM   #709
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
After watching the Biden-Sanders debate, which of the "Biden's got dementia" promoters would like to still argue that position?
I haven't seen it yet, but all reports are that Biden acquitted himself well.

I guess all his strange, blatantly untrue statements about his record weren't signs of his mind slipping, but rather craven, self-serving lies.
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Old 16th March 2020, 05:32 AM   #710
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Yesterday, on NPR’s “Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell Me”.... One of the panelists observed that Biden was about as exciting as a colonoscopy.
Whereupon host Peter Sagal said...
“Think about it... A colonoscopy isn’t as bad as you thought it would be, and you get a nice nap.”

Maybe we could use a bit of a nap?
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Old 16th March 2020, 05:53 AM   #711
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Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
Yesterday, on NPR’s “Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell Me”.... One of the panelists observed that Biden was about as exciting as a colonoscopy.
Whereupon host Peter Sagal said...
“Think about it... A colonoscopy isn’t as bad as you thought it would be, and you get a nice nap.”

Maybe we could use a bit of a nap?
I've been saying this for months. Not everybody who hates "The Bad Orange Man" is just hunkering for the next President to be "Trump, but the exact opposite" because that's still drama.

There is a sizeable amount of people, no I can' t put some exact number on it, no I can't know if it can/will swing the election, that don't want to deal with 4 years of Trump but in reverse.

They want peace and quiet. They want to have a President they don't have to think about. Just because they no longer want the broken down coal rolling pickup doesn't mean they want the Prius. They want a beige Volvo station wagon, automatic, no the 4 cylinder will be fine.

And if any politician is a 4 cylinder automatic beige Volvo Station Wagon it's Joe Biden.
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Old 16th March 2020, 05:57 AM   #712
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I've been saying this for months. Not everybody who hates "The Bad Orange Man" is just hunkering for the next President to be "Trump, but the exact opposite" because that's still drama.

There is a sizeable amount of people, no I can' t put some exact number on it, no I can't know if it can/will swing the election, that don't want to deal with 4 years of Trump but in reverse.

They want peace and quiet. They want to have a President they don't have to think about. Just because they no longer want the broken down coal rolling pickup doesn't mean they want the Prius. They want a beige Volvo station wagon, automatic, no the 4 cylinder will be fine.

And if any politician is a 4 cylinder automatic beige Volvo Station Wagon it's Joe Biden.
I concur.
Nice, Bland, and Normal.

Although, the current crisis may be throwing a wrench in that. By November we could be looking for a "savior".
Thats why Biden needs to name Warren as his running mate now (if he can convince her), because Trump will have no problem promoting himself as the "answer" (even though he is so much "the problem")

Then again, maybe this all clears up in a few weeks- and we are back to wanting a respite from the drama.
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Old 16th March 2020, 06:05 AM   #713
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I've been saying this for months. Not everybody who hates "The Bad Orange Man" is just hunkering for the next President to be "Trump, but the exact opposite" because that's still drama.

There is a sizeable amount of people, no I can' t put some exact number on it, no I can't know if it can/will swing the election, that don't want to deal with 4 years of Trump but in reverse.

They want peace and quiet. They want to have a President they don't have to think about. Just because they no longer want the broken down coal rolling pickup doesn't mean they want the Prius. They want a beige Volvo station wagon, automatic, no the 4 cylinder will be fine.

And if any politician is a 4 cylinder automatic beige Volvo Station Wagon it's Joe Biden.
I would absolutely love it if a sizeable portion of the left wanted a president they didn't have to think about. I would love it if America in general came back around to realizing they shouldn't have to think about the President most of the time.
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Old 16th March 2020, 06:06 AM   #714
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I'm not yet ready to jump on the "Covid-19 is going to be a big game changer for Trump" train just yet because... yeah heard it before.
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Old 16th March 2020, 06:08 AM   #715
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I've been saying this for months. Not everybody who hates "The Bad Orange Man" is just hunkering for the next President to be "Trump, but the exact opposite" because that's still drama.

There is a sizeable amount of people, no I can' t put some exact number on it, no I can't know if it can/will swing the election, that don't want to deal with 4 years of Trump but in reverse.

They want peace and quiet. They want to have a President they don't have to think about. Just because they no longer want the broken down coal rolling pickup doesn't mean they want the Prius. They want a beige Volvo station wagon, automatic, no the 4 cylinder will be fine.

And if any politician is a 4 cylinder automatic beige Volvo Station Wagon it's Joe Biden.
Fox News won't let it happen.

Obama was not a firebrand politician, yet they turned him into a crypto-marxist muslim infiltrator in the white house. Hillary likewise is a pretty uninteresting person, pretty middle of the road politically. The right treats her as if she were the anti-christ.

No matter how boring, reasonable, and willing to compromise the next Democratic president is, the right wing hysteria machine is still going to run wild. Moaning about the deficit, financial collapse, globalism, government overreach, blah blah blah. There's a deep well of standard tropes that will be trotted out even for the most benign actions.

The inclusion of Beto O'Rourke in the Biden camp means that you can practically guarantee that the right is going to run hard on gun confiscation hysteria. that's just one example of what surely will be many hyperbolic screeds from the right.
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Old 16th March 2020, 06:18 AM   #716
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
It's the Republicans getting exactly what they want again.
More anti-LGBT/anti-choice/pro-corporate judges on the federal bench?

More travel and immigration bans which are arbitrary at best, openly racist at worst?

More funding for a pointless and medieval approach to keeping people out?

I'm utterly bewildered by people who claim not to see the obvious differences here.
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Old 16th March 2020, 06:32 AM   #717
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post

I'm utterly bewildered by people who claim not to see the obvious differences here.
The person you quoted did not make this claim. Are there any non-straw posters that you are referring to here?

"Better than Trump" is an exceedingly low bar to clear. Every single Democratic candidate clears it by a mile, and a lot of moderate Republicans do too. Biden doesn't get a gold star for this.


A Biden presidency is absolutely a loss for the progressive cause. Biden's record speaks for itself. Removing Trump is a victory that will make this setback less bitter, assuming Biden can achieve that.
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Old 16th March 2020, 06:39 AM   #718
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The person you quoted did not make this claim.
The poster said the Republicans would be getting "exactly what they want" once again. Draw your own conclusions.
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Old 16th March 2020, 07:21 AM   #719
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
The poster said the Republicans would be getting "exactly what they want" once again. Draw your own conclusions.
I draw that Republicans are happy when the Democrats play the role of responsible centrists while right wingers continually push on rightward and constantly redefine the center.

Right wingers are aggressively pushing the rightward bound of the Overton window and watching with glee as Democrats mumble on about bipartisanship and compromise.
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Old 16th March 2020, 07:45 AM   #720
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I draw that Republicans are happy when the Democrats play the role of responsible centrists while right wingers continually push on rightward and constantly redefine the center.
The center is an ill-defined concept at best; look closely at any particular issue to see what I'm talking about.

Take the policy fight between those who want a maximalist single-payer program and those who think it's a good idea to build on ACA and pass the public option which was originally part of the bill. Both of those groups want to see everyone insured, and I'd say they are both left-of-center. But what's actually the political center on health care and who's going around speaking up for it?

A friend of mine has the same last name that I was born with, but his patrilineage hails from Mexico rather than Puerto Rico. Trump's fans want him deported, Biden's fans want to see him protected under DACAWP or some similar policy. What's the political center on this issue?
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