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Tags Congressional hearings , donald trump , impeachment , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 9th October 2019, 10:56 AM   #601
TragicMonkey
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
If this keeps up, the Senate's going to become just as important as it was under Augustus.
That would make Melania Livia. I can see her painting poison onto fruit still on the tree, but I can't see Trump eating fresh fruit.
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Old 9th October 2019, 12:50 PM   #602
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
That would make Melania Livia. I can see her painting poison onto fruit still on the tree, but I can't see Trump eating fresh fruit.
Now if she got the poison into the McDonald's ketchup packets...
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Old 9th October 2019, 01:02 PM   #603
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Now if she got the poison into the McDonald's ketchup packets...
That's kind of redundant though isn't it? Wouldn't just eating McDonald's be poison enough?
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Old 9th October 2019, 01:24 PM   #604
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
That's kind of redundant though isn't it? Wouldn't just eating McDonald's be poison enough?
If it is, it's working too damn slowly.
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Old 9th October 2019, 02:03 PM   #605
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
If it is, it's working too damn slowly.
Kind of makes you wish it would McHurryTheHellUp...
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Old 9th October 2019, 02:28 PM   #606
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
That's kind of redundant though isn't it? Wouldn't just eating McDonald's be poison enough?
This is why I opposed the government mandating nutritional information on restaurant food. Even with the updated menus, it's not like anyone actually pays any attention to that stuff.
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Old 9th October 2019, 03:33 PM   #607
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
This is why I opposed the government mandating nutritional information on restaurant food. Even with the updated menus, it's not like anyone actually pays any attention to that stuff.
Wrong again. I am someone, and I pay attention.
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Old 9th October 2019, 03:58 PM   #608
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Wrong again. I am someone, and I pay attention.
I stand corrected. This must be how Diogenes felt, when his lamp illuminated an honest man for the first time.
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Old 9th October 2019, 04:00 PM   #609
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Kind of makes you wish it would McHurryTheHellUp...
I hear the McRib is back in certain areas. We can only hope...
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Old 9th October 2019, 08:00 PM   #610
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Stupid reporters, still think they can't be rude and call a politician a liar even when the politician is lying. They don't have follow-up questions ready for the spin they know the interviewee is going to say.

If Trump's hunting for more legal help that explains the bs-ing attorney that was on the news this morning claiming it was accepted procedure for Trump's due process to be able to call defense witnesses and cross examine witnesses. When asked if that was in the Constitution the answer was no but it was the norm.

Do you suppose the reporter might have asked in which impeachment trials had that occurred? But no, as ignorant as Trump's base they just took his word for it.

Wiki Nixon's impeachment: I don't see anything here about putting on a defense or cross examining witnesses. But of course he resigned.

Quote:
Judge Charles E. Wiggins, a Republican congressman from California who was influential in the Watergate hearings and switched from defending President Richard M. Nixon to supporting impeachment
NYT Obit for the guy.


Wiki: Clinton's impeachment:
Quote:
The defense presentation took place from January 19–21. Clinton's defense counsel argued that Clinton's grand jury testimony had too many inconsistencies to be a clear case of perjury, that the investigation and impeachment had been tainted by partisan political bias, that the President's approval rating of more than 70 percent indicated that his ability to govern had not been impaired by the scandal, and that the managers had ultimately presented "an unsubstantiated, circumstantial case that does not meet the constitutional standard to remove the President from office".[26] January 22 and 23 were devoted to questions from members of the Senate to the House managers and Clinton's defense counsel. Under the rules, all questions (over 150) were to be written down and given to Rehnquist to read to the party being questioned.
That was after the case went to the Senate, not while Ken Starr was searching for needles. And I don't recall Clinton cross examining any witnesses.

Quote:
Over three days, February 1–3, House managers took videotaped closed-door depositions from Monica Lewinsky, Clinton's friend Vernon Jordan, and White House aide Sidney Blumenthal. On February 4, however, the Senate voted 70–30 that excerpting these videotapes would suffice as testimony, rather than calling live witnesses to appear at trial. The videos were played in the Senate on February 6, featuring 30 excerpts of Lewinsky discussing her affidavit in the Paula Jones case, the hiding of small gifts Clinton had given her, and his involvement in procurement of a job for Lewinsky.

On February 8, closing arguments were presented with each side allotted a three-hour time slot. On the President's behalf, White House Counsel Charles Ruff declared:

There is only one question before you, albeit a difficult one, one that is a question of fact and law and constitutional theory. Would it put at risk the liberties of the people to retain the President in office? Putting aside partisan animus, if you can honestly say that it would not, that those liberties are safe in his hands, then you must vote to acquit.[26]

Chief Prosecutor Henry Hyde countered:

A failure to convict will make the statement that lying under oath, while unpleasant and to be avoided, is not all that serious ... We have reduced lying under oath to a breach of etiquette, but only if you are the President ... And now let us all take our place in history on the side of honor, and, oh, yes, let right be done.[26]
Again, all that was in the Senate trial, not the House investigation.

Don't you think if you were a reporter and you were going to interview an attorney pundit for Trump you would brush up on this stuff before the interview? The reporters look as clueless as Trump's base.


Then we get a PBS newscaster interviewing Pompeo. Same bull ****. Pompeo dodges, claiming Trump was working against corruption. The fact Biden got a corrupt prosecutor ousted was sidestepped, the reporter asking, why ask for dirt on Biden was sidestepped. Her follow up question that there was no evidence against Biden was side stepped. Not one word that I heard (I missed a few minutes) asked about threatening Turkey's economy.

These reporters think this is an in-depth interview when all it is the usual letting liars get their talking points out. The reporters know what those standard responses are going to be. But doing one's homework so you are ready for this? Of course not.


I don't think a lot of these mainstream newscasters have yet gotten it through their heads what they are dealing with with Trump.
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Old 9th October 2019, 08:41 PM   #611
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Actually, I think Congress has the ability to enforce subpoenas, outside of the courts.

From: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress
Under that ruling, courts generally do not hear motions to quash Congressional subpoenas; even when executive branch officials refuse to comply, courts tend to rule that such matters are "political questions" unsuitable for judicial remedy. In fact, many legal rights usually associated with a judicial subpoena do not apply to a Congressional subpoena.
...
Under this process, the procedure for holding a person in contempt involves only the chamber concerned. Following a contempt citation, the person cited is arrested by the Sergeant-at-Arms for the House or Senate, brought to the floor of the chamber, held to answer charges by the presiding officer, and then subjected to punishment as the chamber may dictate (usually imprisonment for punishment, imprisonment for coercion, or release from the contempt citation).


If that's true, then Congress certainly has the authority to "play hardball"... to issue subpoenas and if Trump or his minions fail to respond, to have them arrested.

(I will of course defer to anyone with more legal expertise than myself.)
Yup, there are even cells under the House for this express purpose.
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Old 9th October 2019, 08:57 PM   #612
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Yup, there are even cells under the House for this express purpose.
And they have been used them for this purpose. But it has been a while since they have. But Congress could just as legally put you in the county lock-up. They would just have to make some arrangement. Or in a private commercial prison.
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:27 PM   #613
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Trump's defense teams' position is: Nixon and Clinton should just have ignored Congress and they would have been fine.
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:31 PM   #614
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Trump's defense teams' position is: Nixon and Clinton should just have ignored Congress and they would have been fine.
Yeah, they said that to a Judge the other day and he nearly fell off the bench laughing.
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Old 10th October 2019, 09:49 AM   #615
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Some more stuff that the inquiry can use in its investigation:

From: https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/10/polit...ent/index.html
A political appointee at the Office of Management and Budget took the unusual step of getting involved in signing off on freezing US aid to Ukraine this past summer -- a process normally reserved for career budget officials, according to sources familiar with the matter...career budget officials raised concerns about signing the documents because they believed such a move may have run afoul of laws requiring OMB to spend money as it is appropriated by Congress, according to a congressional aide.

So, yet more people (long term government employees) who have recognized the actions of the Trump administration as potentially wrong.
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Old 10th October 2019, 01:35 PM   #616
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This speaks for itself:

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-ne...019/index.html
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Old 10th October 2019, 01:52 PM   #617
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
It says a lot. It definitely says that Giuliani was soliciting foreign contributions for Trump's reelection. I keep thinking that these guys couldn't get dirtier and then they do.
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Old 10th October 2019, 02:18 PM   #618
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It says a lot. It definitely says that Giuliani was soliciting foreign contributions for Trump's reelection. I keep thinking that these guys couldn't get dirtier and then they do.
It's more corrupt than just that. It's also using the power of the US government (the Dept of Energy, in this case) to embed cronies into positions of power in Ukraine.

These are the guys: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...ption-ukraine/

Quote:
It was reported recently that Secretary of Energy Rick Perry will be leaving the Trump administration by year’s end.
Quote:
The most newsworthy part is that Perry reportedly urged the Ukrainian government to fire the board of its state-owned gas company, Naftogaz, and install on the board some Americans who had given large donations to the Republican Party — in apparent furtherance of their interests and those of some other large GOP donors who happen to be Giuliani’s clients.
Quote:
Giuliani has two clients, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, Soviet-born real estate entrepreneurs from Florida who are in partnership with an oil magnate named Harry Sargeant III; they’re trying to get a deal to import liquefied natural gas to Ukraine. All have given hundreds of thousands of dollars to Republicans, and while Giuliani was running around Ukraine trying to gin up an investigation of Joe Biden and his son Hunter, the three were trying to get the Naftogaz CEO removed so that an executive more friendly to their own ambitions to sell liquefied ] natural gas to Ukraine could be installed.

The AP reports that Sargeant reportedly told this Ukrainian executive “that he regularly meets with Trump at Mar-a-Lago and that the gas-sales plan had the president’s full support.” The executive “perceived it to be a shakedown.” At the same time, Parnas was going around telling people that the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovich, was about to be removed because she wasn’t friendly enough to their business interests. Months later, Trump did indeed recall Yovanovich from her post. “The ambassador to Ukraine was replaced,” Giuliani told reporters. “I did play a role in that.”
Quote:
Here’s where Rick Perry comes in, on his own trip to Ukraine:

A second meeting during the trip, at a Kyiv hotel, included Ukrainian officials and energy sector people. There, Perry made clear that the Trump administration wanted to see the entire Naftogaz supervisory board replaced, according to a person who attended both meetings. Perry again referenced the list of advisers that he had given [Ukrainian President Volodymyr] Zelenskiy, and it was widely interpreted that he wanted Michael Bleyzer, a Ukrainian-American businessman from Texas, to join the newly formed board, the person said. Also on the list was Robert Bensh, another Texan who frequently works in Ukraine, the Energy Department confirmed.
Bleyzer is also a big Republican donor
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Old 10th October 2019, 02:24 PM   #619
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It says a lot. It definitely says that Giuliani was soliciting foreign contributions for Trump's reelection. I keep thinking that these guys couldn't get dirtier and then they do.
I don;r know exactly what the two guys were going to be charged with in court today,, but they can add "Attempted Flight To Avoid Prosecution: to the list.
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Old 10th October 2019, 02:26 PM   #620
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It says a lot. It definitely says that Giuliani was soliciting foreign contributions for Trump's reelection. I keep thinking that these guys couldn't get dirtier and then they do.
His associates were trying to leave the country on one way tickets the night before a scheduled court appareance. You cannot get more suspicious then that.
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Old 10th October 2019, 02:32 PM   #621
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I don;r know exactly what the two guys were going to be charged with in court today,, but they can add "Attempted Flight To Avoid Prosecution: to the list.
FEC crimes: soliciting/making foreign donations for a POTUS PAC. Foreign election interference.
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Old 10th October 2019, 02:36 PM   #622
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
His associates were trying to leave the country on one way tickets the night before a scheduled court appareance. You cannot get more suspicious then that.
I knew they had one way tickets but was unaware of the court date. They were DEFINITELY fleeing. Wonder if Rudy knew that they were fleeing? He had lunch with them hours before they boarded their flight.
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Old 10th October 2019, 02:50 PM   #623
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
FEC crimes: soliciting/making foreign donations for a POTUS PAC. Foreign election interference.
I think they can now add "Flying to Avoid Prosecution" to that list..
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Old 10th October 2019, 03:31 PM   #624
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I stand corrected. This must be how Diogenes felt, when his lamp illuminated an honest man for the first time.
No need to be snarky. I just don't think you are thinking of other people. Such as people with heart conditions who must watch or count their sodium intake. Or diabetics who adjust insulin or meds based on carbohydrate consumption.

I am glad you don't have to worry about these kinds of things, but some (millions) do.
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Old 10th October 2019, 03:32 PM   #625
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I knew they had one way tickets but was unaware of the court date. They were DEFINITELY fleeing. Wonder if Rudy knew that they were fleeing? He had lunch with them hours before they boarded their flight.
IANAL, but can't all lawyers see what is scheduled on the Federal docket?

ETA: They were scheduled to appear before the House Foreign affairs committee on Thursday and Friday as well.
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Old 10th October 2019, 03:52 PM   #626
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
No need to be snarky. I just don't think you are thinking of other people. Such as people with heart conditions who must watch or count their sodium intake. Or diabetics who adjust insulin or meds based on carbohydrate consumption.



I am glad you don't have to worry about these kinds of things, but some (millions) do.
I'm very sorry. It wasn't meant to be snarky, and it wasn't directed at you.

I think you must have missed the point of my original comment. It was snarky, and was directed at the meme that McDonald's food is unhealthy or poisonous. It seems like a stupid meme, on a forum supposedly dedicated to reason and science. It seems especially stupid now that any rational person can look at a menu and see that a Big Mac has exactly the same healthful qualities as any other collection of ground beef, bread, cheese, lettuce and thousand island dressing. But no. We still get the stale old "bohoho McDonald's is poison!"

It's stupid.

I'm glad you find the info helpful. I know a lot of people do. This isn't about you, or them.
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Old 10th October 2019, 03:56 PM   #627
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
IANAL, but can't all lawyers see what is scheduled on the Federal docket?

ETA: They were scheduled to appear before the House Foreign affairs committee on Thursday and Friday as well.
I'm not one either but I have spent a great deal of time in court. You have to look. There are a lot of court rooms so you would have too look at each one.

Wow. I didn't know about the House Foreign Relations committee. This is getting curiouser and curiouser.
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Old 10th October 2019, 04:26 PM   #628
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I knew they had one way tickets but was unaware of the court date. They were DEFINITELY fleeing. Wonder if Rudy knew that they were fleeing? He had lunch with them hours before they boarded their flight.
Why did they decide to flee? Did Rudi tip them off?
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Old 10th October 2019, 04:32 PM   #629
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I knew they had one way tickets but was unaware of the court date. They were DEFINITELY fleeing. Wonder if Rudy knew that they were fleeing? He had lunch with them hours before they boarded their flight.
He had a ticket for the next day, to the same city (Vienna), on supposedly completely unrelated business.
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Old 10th October 2019, 04:36 PM   #630
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Why did they decide to flee? Did Rudi tip them off?
They had a court appreance scheduled today,and you did not need to be a genius to figure out you were going to be indicted.
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Old 10th October 2019, 04:37 PM   #631
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Why did they decide to flee? Did Rudi tip them off?
I don't know. Sure looks suspicious. I'm curious now when they bought the tickets. And were they carrying luggage?
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Old 10th October 2019, 04:37 PM   #632
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
He had a ticket for the next day, to the same city (Vienna), on supposedly completely unrelated business.
I have heard both Vienna and Frankfurt Germany, but that is pretty much a minor point.
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Old 10th October 2019, 04:38 PM   #633
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't know. Sure looks suspicious. I'm curious now when they bought the tickets. And were they carrying luggage?
COuld have bought the tickets on line or from an ticket agency.
And Lev and Igor are not the brightest bulbs on the planet, but they would have been notified by the court of their appreance date, and knew it was a 99% chance they were going to be hit with an indictment. Probably had a meeting with Rudy to decide what to do.
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Last edited by dudalb; 10th October 2019 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 10th October 2019, 04:38 PM   #634
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
He had a ticket for the next day, to the same city (Vienna), on supposedly completely unrelated business.
Now I'm confused. I need a timeline of the relevant events.
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Old 10th October 2019, 04:45 PM   #635
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Now I'm confused. I need a timeline of the relevant events.
At some point someone's going to sit down and make a thick book called "Trump's pretzel of corruption." Probably Seth Abramson.

Anyway, a sudden flight to Vienna is why Rudi allegedly cancelled an interview with an Atlantic reporter:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...vienna/599833/

If true, I'd guess he found out they were fleeing and was planning on joining them to debrief. But then they got arrested, and welp.
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Old 10th October 2019, 04:45 PM   #636
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Stupid reporters, still think they can't be rude and call a politician a liar even when the politician is lying. They don't have follow-up questions ready for the spin they know the interviewee is going to say.

If Trump's hunting for more legal help that explains the bs-ing attorney that was on the news this morning claiming it was accepted procedure for Trump's due process to be able to call defense witnesses and cross examine witnesses. When asked if that was in the Constitution the answer was no but it was the norm.

Do you suppose the reporter might have asked in which impeachment trials had that occurred? But no, as ignorant as Trump's base they just took his word for it.

Wiki Nixon's impeachment: I don't see anything here about putting on a defense or cross examining witnesses. But of course he resigned.

NYT Obit for the guy.


Wiki: Clinton's impeachment:That was after the case went to the Senate, not while Ken Starr was searching for needles. And I don't recall Clinton cross examining any witnesses.

Again, all that was in the Senate trial, not the House investigation.

Don't you think if you were a reporter and you were going to interview an attorney pundit for Trump you would brush up on this stuff before the interview? The reporters look as clueless as Trump's base.


Then we get a PBS newscaster interviewing Pompeo. Same bull ****. Pompeo dodges, claiming Trump was working against corruption. The fact Biden got a corrupt prosecutor ousted was sidestepped, the reporter asking, why ask for dirt on Biden was sidestepped. Her follow up question that there was no evidence against Biden was side stepped. Not one word that I heard (I missed a few minutes) asked about threatening Turkey's economy.

These reporters think this is an in-depth interview when all it is the usual letting liars get their talking points out. The reporters know what those standard responses are going to be. But doing one's homework so you are ready for this? Of course not.


I don't think a lot of these mainstream newscasters have yet gotten it through their heads what they are dealing with with Trump.
The situation is starting to look pretty similar to Clinton. He will be impeached in the house, but not convicted in the Senate. Will all this make a difference during the election? Clinton commanded a much higher approval rating during his impeachment, we will see what happens with Trump.
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Old 10th October 2019, 05:00 PM   #637
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
The situation is starting to look pretty similar to Clinton. He will be impeached in the house, but not convicted in the Senate. Will all this make a difference during the election? Clinton commanded a much higher approval rating during his impeachment, we will see what happens with Trump.
It doesn't look ANYTHING like Clinton. It is risible to compare the two. Clinton was impeached about lying in a deposition about a consensual sexual experience. This is about accepting and soliciting and even extorting corrupt foreign interference in our elections as well as other government abuses. The public saw right through the phony Republican efforts to impeach Clinton. Do you really believe the country sees this the same way?

I'd also like to point out that Bill was liked by the public. Trump is not.
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Old 10th October 2019, 05:24 PM   #638
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It doesn't look ANYTHING like Clinton. It is risible to compare the two. Clinton was impeached about lying in a deposition about a consensual sexual experience. This is about accepting and soliciting and even extorting corrupt foreign interference in our elections as well as other government abuses. The public saw right through the phony Republican efforts to impeach Clinton. Do you really believe the country sees this the same way?

I'd also like to point out that Bill was liked by the public. Trump is not.
In the post you quoted, I mentioned that Clinton had higher approval ratings during his impeachment than Trump. This is a functional difference, but I don't think it means that Trump will be convicted in the Senate. As to if this will make the difference in the election, the jury is not in.
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Old 10th October 2019, 05:39 PM   #639
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
In the post you quoted, I mentioned that Clinton had higher approval ratings during his impeachment than Trump. This is a functional difference, but I don't think it means that Trump will be convicted in the Senate. As to if this will make the difference in the election, the jury is not in.
I don't think he will either. My bet is one of two things will happen. Republican Senators will pressure Trump to resign or that they will not convict and get slaughtered in the next election.

Very few people thought Nixon was going to be impeached and removed until the tapes were released and the House public impeachment hearings had been going on for some time. Everything dragged on and on and on then it accelerated to light speed.
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Old 10th October 2019, 05:56 PM   #640
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
The situation is starting to look pretty similar to Clinton. He will be impeached in the house, but not convicted in the Senate. Will all this make a difference during the election? Clinton commanded a much higher approval rating during his impeachment, we will see what happens with Trump.
This is such a false equivalence.

You don't know how it is going to play out. (None of us do.)

It wasn't just Clinton's high approval rating, a majority of the public thought the crime was petty. The Republican legislators kept performing their faux outrage about Clinton's horrible lying to the public or whatever. They failed to move the needle.**

Trump is obnoxious in the opinion of many. His crimes keep adding up. Russian interference, Trump refuses to support let alone enact any measures to stop it. Then he's asked China and the Ukraine to dig up dirt on his competition. Now his lawyer, Giuliani, is caught with two foreigners who created a faux LLC-owned PAC supporting Trump and stuffed it with foreign cash.

The snowball is rolling down the hill and it's growing. Time to stop with the nonsensical comparison to Clinton unless one is posting about why there is no match there.



**Laughable given the liar in chief and the perjury of a SCOTUS judge during his confirmation hearing the GOP is fawning over now.
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