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Tags Congressional hearings , donald trump , impeachment , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 27th September 2019, 09:46 AM   #361
TragicMonkey
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Even if that noble goal was their aim, an impeachment trial in the Senate is not going to achieve this. It could even enhance Trumps chances at the next election.
Which magic powers are you using to arrive at this certain knowledge of the future? The Akashic Record? Time travel? Molybdomancy? Please say it's molybdomancy, it's so picturesque a practice and a real shame it's dying out!
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Old 27th September 2019, 09:56 AM   #362
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If Mitch lets the trial drag on,. Americans will wonder why - completely innocent people don't have a year in court. And, of course, they won't get anything done.
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Old 27th September 2019, 10:02 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
If Mitch lets the trial drag on,. Americans will wonder why - completely innocent people don't have a year in court. And, of course, they won't get anything done.
He wouldn't. The second he gets control of the thing he'll vote to acquit and start the sheep bleating INNOCENT! INNOCENT!
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Old 27th September 2019, 10:07 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Which magic powers are you using to arrive at this certain knowledge of the future? The Akashic Record? Time travel? Molybdomancy? Please say it's molybdomancy, it's so picturesque a practice and a real shame it's dying out!
Something much simpler. The Senate is controlled by Republicans.
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Old 27th September 2019, 10:08 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
This blog has several excerpts, along with some commentary:

https://althouse.blogspot.com/2019/0...fy-you-to.html
That was amazingly condescending. I wouldn't be surprised if The Trump campaign passes it around during the election to drum up support.
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Old 27th September 2019, 10:15 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
That was amazingly condescending. I wouldn't be surprised if The Trump campaign passes it around during the election to drum up support.
What do you think that is? Reading insult into out of context quotes is a finely honed skill of theirs.
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Old 27th September 2019, 10:16 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Which magic powers are you using to arrive at this certain knowledge of the future? The Akashic Record? Time travel? Molybdomancy? Please say it's molybdomancy, it's so picturesque a practice and a real shame it's dying out!
I assumed "molybdomancy" was just a fever dream produced by TM's diseased brain. Then Dr. Google showed me otherwise.

Today was not wasted - I learned something new. Thanks, TM!
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Old 27th September 2019, 10:25 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
If Mitch lets the trial drag on,. Americans will wonder why - completely innocent people don't have a year in court.
Would Mitch want the trial to drag on? The longer it extends into the election cycle, the more voters will be reminded that "Oh yeah, that Trump guy is corrupt and the Republicans are defending him". If the Trial is ended sooner, at least they have a chance to rebuild the brand.

Quote:
And, of course, they won't get anything done.
And how would that differ from now, when Moscow mitch regularly ignores bills passed by the house?
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Old 27th September 2019, 10:35 AM   #369
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Psion suggested that Mitch might want to make a spectacle out of the trial to embarrass Democrats, and use that in the 2020 elections.
I find this unlikely.
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Old 27th September 2019, 11:07 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
This. Even if they personally like Trump, and they think he is the greatest president there ever will be, if they consider him a liability in their reelection or election they will turn on him in a heartbeat.

Problem of course is that Trump is not such a liability.
Yet.
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Old 27th September 2019, 11:23 AM   #371
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stupid question #137

What was it about Hunter Biden that Trump was hoping would be dirt?
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Old 27th September 2019, 11:33 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
What was it about Hunter Biden that Trump was hoping would be dirt?
It's discussed here:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...den-in-ukraine
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Old 27th September 2019, 11:37 AM   #373
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
What was it about Hunter Biden that Trump was hoping would be dirt?
given that he also thought Clinton's emails were on a server in Ukraine, I assume he was looking for proof that Hunter was smuggling babies into Washington to be sacrificed and eaten by Democrats.
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Old 27th September 2019, 11:47 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
What do you think that is? Reading insult into out of context quotes is a finely honed skill of theirs.
Have you read the opinion piece we're talking about? It really is amazingly condescending. Reading it in context does nothing to rehabilitate it.
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Old 27th September 2019, 11:58 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Psion suggested that Mitch might want to make a spectacle out of the trial to embarrass Democrats, and use that in the 2020 elections.
I find this unlikely.
It's not often that somebody accurately summarizes my position.

I don't know the odds but the risk is there.
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Old 27th September 2019, 12:03 PM   #376
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I think the Dems know they won't get a convicntion.
What they are hoping for is that the evidence against Trump is so strong that they can take the case to the voter that ,basically, Trump is guilty as hell and got off because of a fixed jury.
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Old 27th September 2019, 12:03 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't believe she's jeopardizing anything. I believe she's playing the same savvy game of "advance Nancy Pelosi's political career" that she's been playing for most of her adult life. If she's stepping down in 2021, she's doing it because it's part of her plan.
A plan for what? Speaking engagements in the afterlife?

She's stepping down. She's not advancing her career.
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Old 27th September 2019, 12:10 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
A plan for what? Speaking engagements in the afterlife?

She's stepping down. She's not advancing her career.
I heard Pelosi is writing a rock opera and plans to have it ready for Broadway before she turns 90.
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Old 27th September 2019, 12:18 PM   #379
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(I'm assuming you were joking about this, but I'll treat it like a serious idea for a second)...
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Well, if you want to be a CT: if both Trump and Pence get impeached, Pelosi becomes President...
Nice to think about, but I don't think it would work that way.

I don't think there's anything that allows Trump and Pence to be impeached simultaneously. So if Trump gets thrown out, Pence becomes president. But he gets to pick a new vice president (subject to confirmation), and that person becomes the new second-in-line.

Not sure what happens though if, in a Pence-as president solution, who becomes the next in line if Pence has selected a vice president but they have not been confirmed. Is there an 'acting' vice president status? Does the U.S. effectively lack a vice president until the confirmation? Could they impeach/convict Trump, then turn around and impeach a president pence the next day before he can pick a VP?
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Old 27th September 2019, 12:23 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
A plan for what? Speaking engagements in the afterlife?

She's stepping down. She's not advancing her career.
Every good career advancement plan includes a retirement strategy. She'll want to wrap up her career clean, with her reputation, her legacy, and her relationships all intact.

---


ETA: I found this article (sorry about the source, feel free to find a better one if you like):

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...-to-secure-the

She's stepping down as Speaker in 2022. She's not actually ending her political career. According to this article, it actually looks like stepping down as speaker is in fact a career move. The House Democrats would like a younger face in that role. So they've agreed to re-elect her as Speaker in this term, in exchange for her agreeing to go back to being a regular Rep after that. Career-wise, this is a lot more savvy than digging in her heels and trying to hang onto the office of Speaker, and antagonizing her party in the process.

Last edited by theprestige; 27th September 2019 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 27th September 2019, 12:52 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Once it gets into the Senate, it will become a Republican controlled agenda - unless the Dems manage to regain control at the next election. All the more reason to delay an actual impeachment vote until after the elections.
Doesn't that assume that the House will receive no information about additional offenses? Does submitting a list to the Senate mean nothing can be added to the list? Trump doesn't even seem to know when he's doing something questionable. I don't see any reason to believe he *won't* keeping giving the House more ammunition.
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Old 27th September 2019, 12:58 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
She's stepping down as Speaker in 2022. She's not actually ending her political career. According to this article, it actually looks like stepping down as speaker is in fact a career move. The House Democrats would like a younger face in that role. So they've agreed to re-elect her as Speaker in this term, in exchange for her agreeing to go back to being a regular Rep after that. Career-wise, this is a lot more savvy than digging in her heels and trying to hang onto the office of Speaker, and antagonizing her party in the process.
Good. I'm glad to see a Democrat thinking strategically.
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Old 27th September 2019, 01:04 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Which magic powers are you using to arrive at this certain knowledge of the future? The Akashic Record? Time travel? Molybdomancy? Please say it's molybdomancy, it's so picturesque a practice and a real shame it's dying out!
Hilary in a landslide!

Oh hubris, you've done it again!
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Old 27th September 2019, 01:27 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
(I'm assuming you were joking about this, but I'll treat it like a serious idea for a second)...

Nice to think about, but I don't think it would work that way.

I don't think there's anything that allows Trump and Pence to be impeached simultaneously. So if Trump gets thrown out, Pence becomes president. But he gets to pick a new vice president (subject to confirmation), and that person becomes the new second-in-line.

Not sure what happens though if, in a Pence-as president solution, who becomes the next in line if Pence has selected a vice president but they have not been confirmed. Is there an 'acting' vice president status? Does the U.S. effectively lack a vice president until the confirmation? Could they impeach/convict Trump, then turn around and impeach a president pence the next day before he can pick a VP?
We were fortunate in 1974 that Spiro Agnew got forced out first. He was a garden-variety grifter. We won't be so lucky with Pence.
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Old 27th September 2019, 01:31 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Pelosi had the wisdom to be patient, knowing that with Trump, the prefect case for impeachment would come along.
And it did.
It was inevitable with Trump.

I thought she was playing it too safe, but she was just playing the long game. If she can get an Impeachment Vote before Christmas, that would be ideal.
This is hardly the perfect case.

The perfect case would be something so egregious that no reasonable person could doubt that Trump did it and that he should be removed for that reason. In this case, his supporters can deny that there was a quid pro quo and claim there's nothing wrong with trying to bring Biden to account for his nefarious deeds.

Whether his supporters count as reasonable persons is a matter for debate, I presume, but I want something so clear cut that even Hannity would feel shame when rising to Trump's defense. Perhaps there is no such thing.
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Old 27th September 2019, 01:33 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The Washington Post publishes a delusional fantasy about how impeachment is playing among the deplorables:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...ed-truck-stop/

This is what progressives actually believe.
No, that's what one columnist who specializes in hyperbole for the sake of humor writes. I don't care for her columns.
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Old 27th September 2019, 01:40 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
No, that's what one columnist who specializes in hyperbole for the sake of humor writes. I don't care for her columns.
One columnist, who wrote a delusional fantasy, which was published by the Washington Post. Your "no" at the beginning implies a contradiction where none exists.
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Old 27th September 2019, 01:48 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
One columnist, who wrote a delusional fantasy, which was published by the Washington Post. Your "no" at the beginning implies a contradiction where none exists.
It was a condescending article. I didn't bother to finish it. (The blog post with commentary starts out pretty badly too, with a comment that real folks don't use clocks on the wall to tell the time in a dream-sequence column.)

She's a regular columnist for the Post. The editors there evidently like her column. They also like Hugh Hewitt's and Marc Thiesen's columns. The presence in the Post doesn't mean this is what progressives believe.

Honestly, you're being silly now if you're seriously suggesting that this column is representative of progressive thought simply because it's in the Post.
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Old 27th September 2019, 02:00 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
If it were all going to happen now, and probably in the next few weeks at least, I believe the result would be Trump out of office. The only question is whether Pelosi can succeed in her quest to protect him by delaying & bogging it down long enough for the current mood to fade into "if it were important they'd just do it so this must all just be for show".
What? Protect who, Trump? Your post is confusing.

The GOP talking point: pretend the House is supposed to vote right away to proceed and the Senate takes it from there. That would quash the whole thing which is why GOP legislators are claiming Pelosi did this on her own and the House needed to vote on it.

The investigation starts in the House. That is where the evidence is collected. That is where the specific charges and evidence are laid out. Only then does it go to the Senate for trial.

Psion made a related accusation that the current House investigation was really only intended to make Trump look bad for the election. Apparently he believes this is nothing but bad press, as if there isn't really a crime here.

Now the idiot Chuck Todd (on TV now) is claiming it's too close to the election to start an impeachment process. WTF is that? Then he went on to say they needed to rush it to get it done before the election? Why?


It says something that people are speculating all sorts of things about the impeachment and there is no consistent prediction or claim of Pelosi's plans.


And everyone has forgotten Mueller spelled out 4 clear cases of obstruction of justice that Barr and Trump successfully quashed. Those are still sitting there to be written up in the impeachment charges.

How about the investigation takes as long as it takes, forget all the speculative motives to speed it up or slow it down? There is more evidence hinted at that needs to be uncovered. For one, more of Trump's calls have been hidden away. They need a court to see those transcripts and decide which ones can stay privileged and which need to be outed. Remember, the court ruled against Nixon keeping his tapes private.

Betcha the Trump team is scrubbing any incriminating files as we speak.
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Old 27th September 2019, 02:23 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
What? Protect who, Trump? Your post is confusing.

The GOP talking point: pretend the House is supposed to vote right away to proceed and the Senate takes it from there. That would quash the whole thing which is why GOP legislators are claiming Pelosi did this on her own and the House needed to vote on it.

The investigation starts in the House. That is where the evidence is collected. That is where the specific charges and evidence are laid out. Only then does it go to the Senate for trial.

Psion made a related accusation that the current House investigation was really only intended to make Trump look bad for the election. Apparently he believes this is nothing but bad press, as if there isn't really a crime here.

Now the idiot Chuck Todd (on TV now) is claiming it's too close to the election to start an impeachment process. WTF is that? Then he went on to say they needed to rush it to get it done before the election? Why?


It says something that people are speculating all sorts of things about the impeachment and there is no consistent prediction or claim of Pelosi's plans.


And everyone has forgotten Mueller spelled out 4 clear cases of obstruction of justice that Barr and Trump successfully quashed. Those are still sitting there to be written up in the impeachment charges.

How about the investigation takes as long as it takes, forget all the speculative motives to speed it up or slow it down? There is more evidence hinted at that needs to be uncovered. For one, more of Trump's calls have been hidden away. They need a court to see those transcripts and decide which ones can stay privileged and which need to be outed. Remember, the court ruled against Nixon keeping his tapes private.

Betcha the Trump team is scrubbing any incriminating files as we speak.
Yesterday I heard a report that, upon learning that there were additional phone transcripts squirrelled away in that secure computer system, House Intel issued an order for the preservation of evidence. If any scrubbing were to be found out, new crimes would be committed.
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Old 27th September 2019, 02:26 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
Yesterday I heard a report that, upon learning that there were additional phone transcripts squirrelled away in that secure computer system, House Intel issued an order for the preservation of evidence. If any scrubbing were to be found out, new crimes would be committed.
Reminder: this is the Trump WH we're talking about.
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Old 27th September 2019, 02:32 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
Yesterday I heard a report that, upon learning that there were additional phone transcripts squirrelled away in that secure computer system, House Intel issued an order for the preservation of evidence. If any scrubbing were to be found out, new crimes would be committed.
Actually, deleting the phone records would probably also be a violation of the presidential records act, which requires archiving all documents and other materials that the president creates or receives.

Of course, given the fact that Trump has been known to eat stuff that he's received, it wouldn't be surprising that he doesn't care too much about following the law.
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Old 27th September 2019, 02:33 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think the Dems know they won't get a convicntion.
What they are hoping for is that the evidence against Trump is so strong that they can take the case to the voter that ,basically, Trump is guilty as hell and got off because of a fixed jury.
Yep, I agree with this. The idea is just to expose just how corrupt this government is during the house hearings. Lay the case out before the American people. Let them decide. If the Senate refuses to do its job then the electorate will know EXACTLY who to blame.
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Old 27th September 2019, 03:54 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
(I'm assuming you were joking about this, but I'll treat it like a serious idea for a second)...

Nice to think about, but I don't think it would work that way.

I don't think there's anything that allows Trump and Pence to be impeached simultaneously. So if Trump gets thrown out, Pence becomes president. But he gets to pick a new vice president (subject to confirmation), and that person becomes the new second-in-line.

Not sure what happens though if, in a Pence-as president solution, who becomes the next in line if Pence has selected a vice president but they have not been confirmed. Is there an 'acting' vice president status? Does the U.S. effectively lack a vice president until the confirmation? Could they impeach/convict Trump, then turn around and impeach a president pence the next day before he can pick a VP?
The office of vice president remains vacant until the replacement is confirmed. Pelosi (assuming she's still Speaker of the House) will be the successor until the replacement vice president is confirmed.

Prior to the passage of the 25th amendment, the vice presidency remained vacant until the next presidential election if the vice president or president died or resigned. Two vice presidents have been replaced via the appointment process of the 25th amendment. Spiro Agnew resigned in 1973 after allegations of bribery and tax evasion while he was governor of Maryland surfaced (he pleaded guilty to tax evasion). Gerald Ford was appointed vice president, and became president when Richard Nixon resigned due to the Watergate scandal. Nelson Rockefeller was appointed to replace Gerald Ford as vice president.

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Old 27th September 2019, 04:22 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Yep, I agree with this. The idea is just to expose just how corrupt this government is during the house hearings. Lay the case out before the American people. Let them decide. If the Senate refuses to do its job then the electorate will know EXACTLY who to blame.
But then if that's the case they're wasting a whole bunch of time and drama on something that they can simply CAMPAIGN on, all the while doing NOTHING to push their policies and SELL them... this IS going to backfire on them
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Old 27th September 2019, 04:33 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by Grizzly Bear View Post
But then if that's the case they're wasting a whole bunch of time and drama on something that they can simply CAMPAIGN on, all the while doing NOTHING to push their policies and SELL them... this IS going to backfire on them
No, they can't. Formal impeachment process allows them to investigate more thoroughly and gives them wider powers. Joe Blow candidate cannot subpoena Pompeo or Barr or anyone for that matter.
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Old 27th September 2019, 06:07 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The Washington Post publishes a delusional fantasy about how impeachment is playing among the deplorables:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...ed-truck-stop/

This is what progressives actually believe.
Did you actually read the column? If so, how did you miss that it was written entirely tongue in cheek?

Did you check the Author's Biography? If so, how did you miss that she writes "a lighter take on the news and opinions of the day."

That she won the National Press Club Angele Gingras Award for Humor Writing 2016 and was included in Rolling Stone's Fifty Funniest People Right Now.

If you haven't figured it out yet, the column is Satire.
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Old 27th September 2019, 06:13 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Yep, I agree with this. The idea is just to expose just how corrupt this government is during the house hearings. Lay the case out before the American people. Let them decide. If the Senate refuses to do its job then the electorate will know EXACTLY who to blame.
It's a whole year away.

I think this point is continuing to be overlooked here when people remain static in the conviction the Senate will not vote to impeach.

They won't if they see the voters remain on their side. But if they are up for reelection and their offices are flooded with calls and messages that Trump is a crook, there's a very good chance enough GOP Senators will jump from that sinking ship to save their own seats.

And the GOP is going to have quite the dilemma if Trump stays in the race and it looks certain he will lose. They might want a last minute candidate like Ryan to jump in. You have to dump Trump to let that happen.
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Old 27th September 2019, 06:58 PM   #399
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None of us know how this will play out with voters. If you're confident one way or the other, you're indulging in wishful thinking.

It's WAY too soon to tell. But so far, most polls show uptick in support for impeachment.

And some of that anti-impeach comes from Democrats who oppose Trump but think it's bad strategy.
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Old 27th September 2019, 07:11 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It's a whole year away.

I think this point is continuing to be overlooked here when people remain static in the conviction the Senate will not vote to impeach.

They won't if they see the voters remain on their side. But if they are up for reelection and their offices are flooded with calls and messages that Trump is a crook, there's a very good chance enough GOP Senators will jump from that sinking ship to save their own seats.

And the GOP is going to have quite the dilemma if Trump stays in the race and it looks certain he will lose. They might want a last minute candidate like Ryan to jump in. You have to dump Trump to let that happen.
Right now the Republican response seems to be "what's the big deal?" As if withholding aid to pressure a foreign government to go after political opponent is not a big deal. Its amazing that so many are trying to do that with a straight face.

Trump doesn't actually care about curtailing corruption abroad except when it might involve a political opponent. Especially when it's one he's terrified of. Especially one who in every poll beats him handily.

If people can't see this, they are
1.not paying attention
2. Stupid as a post
Or
3. So biased they cannot bring themselves to be intellectually honest.
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