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Tags donald trump , Hunter Biden , joe biden , rudy giuliani , Trump controversies , US-Ukraine relations

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Old 24th September 2019, 02:34 PM   #361
kellyb
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https://twitter.com/brianklaas/statu...94495800061953
"@brianklaas
US Senate unanimously calls on Trump to allow release of potentially explosive whistleblower complaint. Things are moving quickly."
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:36 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
https://twitter.com/brianklaas/statu...94495800061953
"@brianklaas
US Senate unanimously calls on Trump to allow release of potentially explosive whistleblower complaint. Things are moving quickly."
Wow! That's huge but it also makes me nervous. Republicans having any principles had become something of an oxymoron.
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:37 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It probably wasn't appropriate for Hunter to sit on the board of that company.
Maybe, but the board rooms of the world are littered with the spawn of high ranking politicians. For the Trump administration to say that the Hunter Biden placement was a bridge too far would be a pretty tough sell. His supporters might lap it up like baby birds eagerly swallowing regurgitated food from their mother, but we've pretty much written them off as hopeless in any kind of electoral sense.

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Old 24th September 2019, 02:46 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Wow! That's huge but it also makes me nervous. Republicans having any principles had become something of an oxymoron.
They might have just decided he's outlived his usefulness.
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:48 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
According to CNN, there is just not the one phone call but "multiple events" that alarmed the whistleblower.

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-ne...int/index.html

We have to know everything, not just see the transcript of the one phone call. If Trump is willing to release that, then I highly suspect it may seem benign if taken out of context with the other alleged events. One thing I think anyone with more than half a brain knows is that Trump is a liar whose word about anything has zero credibility.
We it would be nice to know is what the whistleblower's allegations are and who the whistleblower is. I don't think we (as in the public) are going to know anything much anytime soon.
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:48 PM   #366
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Jeff Sessions was in the basement of the senate last night.

https://twitter.com/alanhe/status/1176268809239453697

Wonder if he has anything to do with any of this?
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:59 PM   #367
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Friends, we don’t say “the California,” or “the Sally Field.” On the other hand we do go with “the Hotel California” and “the flying nun,” so what do I know?

tl;dr: it’s just Ukraine, no “the.”
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:05 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Friends, we don’t say “the California,” or “the Sally Field.” On the other hand we do go with “the Hotel California” and “the flying nun,” so what do I know?

tl;dr: it’s just Ukraine, no “the.”
The rain in the Ukraine falls the mainly on the plainly. But the bongo in the Congo is an ongoing concern.
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:06 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Friends, we don’t say “the California,” or “the Sally Field.” On the other hand we do go with “the Hotel California” and “the flying nun,” so what do I know?

tl;dr: it’s just Ukraine, no “the.”
It's always weird when robots try to lecture me about how natural languages work. I'm like, you're a robot. Your simple systems of forma logic clearly aren't up to the task of telling a human being how to talk. Go back to assembling cars or something.
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:11 PM   #370
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
We it would be nice to know is what the whistleblower's allegations are and who the whistleblower is.

A number of posters on the Washington Post are guessing that it's Dan Coats.
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:12 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's always weird when robots try to lecture me about how natural languages work. I'm like, you're a robot. Your simple systems of forma logic clearly aren't up to the task of telling a human being how to talk. Go back to assembling cars or something.
It isn't "natural language". It how they wish their country to be known. It is Ukraine. Same way in English it is Spain and not "the Spain", France and not "the France" or Norway and not "the Norway" (for Trump followers out there :P ). It isn't unnatural, abnormal or even difficult to call it Ukraine in English.
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:18 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's always weird when robots try to lecture me about how natural languages work. I'm like, you're a robot. Your simple systems of forma logic clearly aren't up to the task of telling a human being how to talk. Go back to assembling cars or something.
Sure, prestige, sure.
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:19 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The rule is all executive power is vested in a president.

This is the application of that rule.
Congress has the Power of the Purse.

Sounds like today the Senate is taking that power back and dismissing Trump's claim there is a border emergency.
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:20 PM   #374
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But some people have been brainwashed to say "Theee Ohio State University"
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:20 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The rule is all executive power is vested in a president.

This is the application of that rule.
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:20 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The president is allowed to be concerned about corruption and use executive power as he sees fit. If it just so happens to involve a political opponent, he isn't required to be demure. He is the fount of all executive power. There isn't another source of authority for someone else to make this decision.
You don't appear to be following current events.
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:23 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
They might have just decided he's outlived his usefulness.
Please. Don't get my hopes up. I avoid much of the news for precisely this reason.

I think that what would bug his Senate fan base is that they were serious about allocating those funds to Ukraine and don't want Trump to withhold them. They haven't been complete suck ups when it comes to a couple of issues: arms sales to Saudi Arabia and anything involving Trump's cozy relationship with Putin. Graham and others are informed enough to see a problem.
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:23 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It isn't my view. I didn't invent unitary executive theory. There is a cohort of legal minds that have these ideas.

I'm not bringing anything novel here.
You might want to look into the lack of certainty and unanimity in your assertion.
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:26 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
McConnell is not going to hold a fair trial. He doesn't do anything fairly. It will be up to the voters.
I'm not sure we'll even get a fair impeachment, much less trial. There's a high likelihood that Trump will stonewall. Then it/various will go to the Supreme Court. Then who knows.

History unfolding before our eyes.
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:28 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
If Republicans were smart, they'd reconsider that decision at this point. Which of course means it won't happen.


Yep, the rebuttal is claiming Pelosi decided this all on her own and the American people don't agree.

The GOP Congressman isn't following current events either.
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:46 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Friends, we don’t say “the California,” or “the Sally Field.” On the other hand we do go with “the Hotel California” and “the flying nun,” so what do I know?

tl;dr: it’s just Ukraine, no “the.”
And we don't say "The France", but the people who live there say "La France".

But I looked it up on Wikipedia, and sure enough the government of Ukraine has requested that English speakers stop calling it "The Ukraine", as was customary before independence.
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:46 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss View Post
A number of posters on the Washington Post are guessing that it's Dan Coats.
That's what I was thinking, too. Him or Sue Whatshername who was right under him, who resigned with him, leaving Trump a note saying "You should have your team."
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:51 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Please. Don't get my hopes up. I avoid much of the news for precisely this reason.

I think that what would bug his Senate fan base is that they were serious about allocating those funds to Ukraine and don't want Trump to withhold them. They haven't been complete suck ups when it comes to a couple of issues: arms sales to Saudi Arabia and anything involving Trump's cozy relationship with Putin. Graham and others are informed enough to see a problem.
I dunno. Sessions in the senate basement, Trump and Guliani both basically "oops" confessing, the whistleblower coming to Schiff saying he wants to go before congress, some total nobody running the DNI office now, not knowing how to handle any of this, and the senate voting like that...

The whole thing is a LOT. And so sudden.
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:53 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
They might have just decided he's outlived his usefulness.
Getting too hot to be associated with, especially as the next election draws closer.

They've gotten all they can out of Trump and given his electability (aka his base) is diminishing, what's left to hold on to?
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:56 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Sure, prestige, sure.
It's theprestige. At least have the consistency of your convictions.
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Old 24th September 2019, 04:04 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
We it would be nice to know is what the whistleblower's allegations are and who the whistleblower is. I don't think we (as in the public) are going to know anything much anytime soon.
Might be sooner than you think. The whistle blower via his lawyer asked to talk to Congress directly.
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Old 24th September 2019, 04:07 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Wow! That's huge but it also makes me nervous. Republicans having any principles had become something of an oxymoron.
I seriously doubt you have to worry about an outbreak of sincerity among Senate Republicans.


What I think it means is that they are pretty convinced that the transcripts will make Donald Trump look good, or, more accurately, make his detractors who made a big deal out of this look foolish.


One nothingburger, hot off the grill, coming up.
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Old 24th September 2019, 04:09 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Might be sooner than you think. The whistle blower via his lawyer asked to talk to Congress directly.
...and the senate unanimously voted to tell him to allow the WB's complaint to be released.
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Old 24th September 2019, 04:10 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I seriously doubt you have to worry about an outbreak of sincerity among Senate Republicans.


What I think it means is that they are pretty convinced that the transcripts will make Donald Trump look good, or, more accurately, make his detractors who made a big deal out of this look foolish.


One nothingburger, hot off the grill, coming up.
The senate voted on the complaint, not the transcripts.

It's not a nothingburger.
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Old 24th September 2019, 04:12 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I seriously doubt you have to worry about an outbreak of sincerity among Senate Republicans.


What I think it means is that they are pretty convinced that the transcripts will make Donald Trump look good, or, more accurately, make his detractors who made a big deal out of this look foolish.


One nothingburger, hot off the grill, coming up.
I think they may hope that. The problem is that it ISN'T a nothinburger. Trump and crazy Giuliani have already conceded the salient points. But that won't stop Republicans from trying to spi. It that way.
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Old 24th September 2019, 04:14 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Might be sooner than you think. The whistle blower via his lawyer asked to talk to Congress directly.
Do we know what Trump was trying to brew? I mean, if it was a Belgian Tripel (and it was good) ...
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Old 24th September 2019, 04:16 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
The senate voted on the complaint, not the transcripts.

It's not a nothingburger.
My mistake.

I still think that the reason they voted that way is that they are convinced there's nothing damaging, but there is at least one other possible explanation, which is that they figured that there was no way to keep it secret, so they needed to get out front on the release.

In other words, it is at least possible that there's something worthy of mention in the complaint.

We'll see soon enough about the meat, or lack thereof.
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Old 24th September 2019, 04:23 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Trump says he's going to release the full, declassified, un-redacted transcript of his call with the Ukranian Pres. So assuming that's true and nothing like what is alleged appears on that call, does that put a damper on this whole thing? I guess it still leaves room for stuff like, "we don't know if that is truly unredacted or complete," but it makes it a little harder to substantiate the whistleblower's claims.
You're not keeping up.

1) The high crime is attempting to use a foreign government to interfere with the election. The pro quo isn't required.

2) We already have the pro quo, Trump had no legit right to delay aid payments to Ukraine, his flimsy excuse it had to do with wanting the EU to cough up payments first simply doesn't hold water.

3) As far as the release of the transcript, that is only part of what needs to be released. The whistle blower's report is also key. And there's a good chance Congress will get that sooner rather than later.


Just because Trump is good at making up faux excuses doesn't mean those excuses hold water.
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Old 24th September 2019, 04:25 PM   #394
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I wonder if Giuliani is advising Trump as his lawyer... If so, Trump's goose is well and truly cooked.
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Old 24th September 2019, 04:27 PM   #395
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I expect Trump will release a transcript of one call. But apparently there were half a dozen or more.
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Old 24th September 2019, 04:28 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Wow! That's huge but it also makes me nervous. Republicans having any principles had become something of an oxymoron.
As someone who has voted Republican in the past, I have to agree.
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Old 24th September 2019, 04:29 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I expect Trump will release a transcript of one call. But apparently there were half a dozen or more.
Gee, the Nixon playbook.

Yeah I am getting a "I have seen this movie before" feeling...
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Old 24th September 2019, 04:29 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
He also said he'd release his tax returns. This is Trump: believe he'll do something after he does it, not before.


And Melania is going to hold a press conference with evidence proving she didn't illegally work in the country on a visitor visa.
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Old 24th September 2019, 04:30 PM   #399
dudalb
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I wonder if Giuliani is advising Trump as his lawyer... If so, Trump's goose is well and truly cooked.
I can't think of anybody who has fallen in my opinion as far as Giuliani has.
He seems to have lost his sanity,
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Old 24th September 2019, 04:31 PM   #400
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
You are also assuming that the Ukraine call is all that this is about. If he also made a call to the Russians saying he was going to lean on the Ukraine...
Oh, I missed that. I would imagine that will be in the whistle blower's report.
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