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Tags 2020 elections , joe biden , presidential candidates

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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:29 PM   #1
Meadmaker
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Is Joe Biden done? I hope so.

Joe's star seems to be falling. I like Joe. In terms of his politics, I think he's the best Democratic candidate. Liberal, but pragmatic. Just my kind of guy, except for his birthdate. I just don't want to vote for someone that old.

I don't want to vote for Warren or Sanders or Trump for the same reasons, and more, but they aren't quite as old as Biden.

But, Sanders is a guy who's too far left to actually identify as a Democrat. (I think he calls himself an "independent who caucuses with the Democrats" still in the Senate.) I don't want to vote for an avowed socialist. So, Warren? Still has the age problem, just not as bad as Biden, but she's stumbling all over herself promising to give away other people's money. She can provide free college and free health care and forgive student loans and all she has to do is raise taxes, but only a little bit and only on other people. That kind of fibbing would be an automatic disqualification in my book....except that if she gets the nomination she'll be running against Trump. Even if it were some other Republican, they would be telling the "if we cut taxes we'll get more money" fib, because you can't get the GOP nomination without telling that lie these days.

So, in an ironic twist, Joe's had some stumbles and may get caught up in someone else's scandal. His polls have dropped lately. He looks old. He might be on his way out.

I hope so, because unless he gets out soon, there's no way that a more moderate candidate, like Klobuchar, has any chance of sneaking in. If he gets out of the way, a younger candidate might be able to grab the middle lane, which is what I hope happens. Otherwise, I would have a choice between a socialist or Trump, which means I would have to vote for the socialist, and if the Dem wins, the only chance for divided government would have me rooting for a GOP senate victory.

Divided government is what I really want, so I suppose Trump as president with a united opposition congress would not be incredibly awful, but the "Trump as president" part really sticks in my craw.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:36 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Joe's star seems to be falling. I like Joe. In terms of his politics, I think he's the best Democratic candidate. Liberal, but pragmatic. Just my kind of guy, except for his birthdate. I just don't want to vote for someone that old.

I don't want to vote for Warren or Sanders or Trump for the same reasons, and more, but they aren't quite as old as Biden.

But, Sanders is a guy who's too far left to actually identify as a Democrat. (I think he calls himself an "independent who caucuses with the Democrats" still in the Senate.) I don't want to vote for an avowed socialist. So, Warren? Still has the age problem, just not as bad as Biden, but she's stumbling all over herself promising to give away other people's money. She can provide free college and free health care and forgive student loans and all she has to do is raise taxes, but only a little bit and only on other people. That kind of fibbing would be an automatic disqualification in my book....except that if she gets the nomination she'll be running against Trump. Even if it were some other Republican, they would be telling the "if we cut taxes we'll get more money" fib, because you can't get the GOP nomination without telling that lie these days.

So, in an ironic twist, Joe's had some stumbles and may get caught up in someone else's scandal. His polls have dropped lately. He looks old. He might be on his way out.

I hope so, because unless he gets out soon, there's no way that a more moderate candidate, like Klobuchar, has any chance of sneaking in. If he gets out of the way, a younger candidate might be able to grab the middle lane, which is what I hope happens. Otherwise, I would have a choice between a socialist or Trump, which means I would have to vote for the socialist, and if the Dem wins, the only chance for divided government would have me rooting for a GOP senate victory.

Divided government is what I really want, so I suppose Trump as president with a united opposition congress would not be incredibly awful, but the "Trump as president" part really sticks in my craw.
I find it kind of absurd when you reference his age when you consider he's only a few years older than Warren or Sanders. I bet he's in far better condition than either of them. Definitely better than Sanders. And my preference is Warren. But I still like Joe.
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Last edited by acbytesla; 23rd September 2019 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:36 PM   #3
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I donít know if you are being literal or figurative but Sanders is older than Biden. Joe record-player Biden just seems older because they keep asking him to justify statements he made about Trumpís Wall because they contradict contemporary statements he made about Hadrianís Wall.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:38 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I find it kind of absurd when you reference his age when you consider he's only a few years older than Warren or Sanders. I bet he's in far better condition than either of them. Definitely better than Sanders. And my preference is Warren. But I still like Joe.
Ha! Another! Sanders is 78. Biden is 76!
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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:47 PM   #5
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Biden had quite a head start coming out the gate just from his VP position and sheer name recognition. But he doesn’t seem to generate a whole lot of excitement, just a general “he’s electable” vibe. If he starts falling behind I don’t think he be able to recover.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:56 PM   #6
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All three of them are really too damned old to be doing this game now. It's a bit like watching tennis players from the fifties toddle around the court playing exhibition matches. It's amusing (sometimes) to watch the oldies try to relive their glory days.

Trump is in the same category, but his "age" is mental age. More and more I'm convinced his toddler-tantrum behaviour is due to mental regression due to loss of cognitive function, probably caused by dementia. His father died of the same issue at that age.

But yeah, Joe is a pretty good guy. Just that his age has indeed taken the edge off what was probably a sharper mind in earlier years.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 06:06 PM   #7
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Biden seems focused on bi-partisanship - his ability to 'work across the aisle'.
This is an obsolete strategy, and Joe seems out of touch.
As Mitch McConnell has demonstrated so convincingly; bi-partisanship is dead, deceased, no longer among the living, pining for the fjords.
Makes Joe look even older.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 06:21 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I donít know if you are being literal or figurative but Sanders is older than Biden. Joe record-player Biden just seems older because they keep asking him to justify statements he made about Trumpís Wall because they contradict contemporary statements he made about Hadrianís Wall.
My mistake. I thought Joe was older.

So, another reason not to vote for Bernie.

Warren at least is a woman, and I know they live longer and I think they are less likely to suffer early onset dementia, so that's a plus for her. (I don't actually know that the dementia thing is true. I've just heard it said.)
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Old 23rd September 2019, 06:27 PM   #9
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It is just another sign of the dysfunction in USA politics. There are geriatrics everywhere who have built up a their own private principality over time. Obama beat the system to the extent that he became president, then he was so hamstrung by the built in inertia he could barely do anything.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 06:29 PM   #10
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Joe should have run in 2016. He's too old now as are Sanders and Trump. And me.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 06:41 PM   #11
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I'm not particularly fond of Warren, but I think she's a better choice than Sanders or Biden. I'm hoping some of the younger folks will climb in popularity and become viable candidates.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 06:42 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Joe should have run in 2016. He's too old now as are Sanders and Trump. And me.
I would definitely have voted for him in 2016. Even then, I would have preferred someone under 70, but there were no options that fit that bill, and I liked him a whole lot better than Sanders, Clinton, Trump, or anyone else who ran that year.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:07 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Joe should have run in 2016. He's too old now as are Sanders and Trump. And me.
.... and me. And I fancy myself to be pretty sharp, but I would not be up to the rigors of running a country, much less being the titular leader of "the free world".

And I'm three months younger than Warren.


They're all too old. Every one of the four "prime" candidates is over 70.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:13 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
So, Warren? Still has the age problem, just not as bad as Biden, but she's stumbling all over herself promising to give away other people's money. She can provide free college and free health care and forgive student loans and all she has to do is raise taxes, but only a little bit and only on other people. That kind of fibbing would be an automatic disqualification in my book....
It's not a fib. For real.

If I could prove to you it's not a fib, would that matter to you?
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:23 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
.... and me. And I fancy myself to be pretty sharp, but I would not be up to the rigors of running a country, much less being the titular leader of "the free world".

And I'm three months younger than Warren.


They're all too old. Every one of the four "prime" candidates is over 70.
Warren just doesn't seem too old to me. She comes across as adequately youthful.

I'd rather vote for a more competent and trustworthy 95 year old than a less competent and trustworthy 50 year old, though.
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Last edited by kellyb; 23rd September 2019 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:28 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Ha! Another! Sanders is 78. Biden is 76!
I knew they were about the same age. Isn't Warren 72? But then women live longer. So maybe in male years she's 67.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:31 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
It's not a fib. For real.

If I could prove to you it's not a fib, would that matter to you?
Some news organization the other day complained that, under Warren's tax plan, Jeff Bezos would have to pay something like $73 billion in taxes.

Oh, the horrors!

Now, what's the bad news?
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:31 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Joe's star seems to be falling. I like Joe. In terms of his politics, I think he's the best Democratic candidate. Liberal, but pragmatic. Just my kind of guy, except for his birthdate. I just don't want to vote for someone that old.

I don't want to vote for Warren or Sanders or Trump for the same reasons, and more, but they aren't quite as old as Biden.

But, Sanders is a guy who's too far left to actually identify as a Democrat. (I think he calls himself an "independent who caucuses with the Democrats" still in the Senate.) I don't want to vote for an avowed socialist. So, Warren? Still has the age problem, just not as bad as Biden, but she's stumbling all over herself promising to give away other people's money. She can provide free college and free health care and forgive student loans and all she has to do is raise taxes, but only a little bit and only on other people. That kind of fibbing would be an automatic disqualification in my book....except that if she gets the nomination she'll be running against Trump. Even if it were some other Republican, they would be telling the "if we cut taxes we'll get more money" fib, because you can't get the GOP nomination without telling that lie these days.

So, in an ironic twist, Joe's had some stumbles and may get caught up in someone else's scandal. His polls have dropped lately. He looks old. He might be on his way out.

I hope so, because unless he gets out soon, there's no way that a more moderate candidate, like Klobuchar, has any chance of sneaking in. If he gets out of the way, a younger candidate might be able to grab the middle lane, which is what I hope happens. Otherwise, I would have a choice between a socialist or Trump, which means I would have to vote for the socialist, and if the Dem wins, the only chance for divided government would have me rooting for a GOP senate victory.

Divided government is what I really want, so I suppose Trump as president with a united opposition congress would not be incredibly awful, but the "Trump as president" part really sticks in my craw.
Hey, for what it's worth, because of the pointless inanity of the Elizabeth Warren threads, I'm voting for EW just out of spite.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:32 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I'm not particularly fond of Warren, but I think she's a better choice than Sanders or Biden. I'm hoping some of the younger folks will climb in popularity and become viable candidates.
I really hope Beto would have been better. Before he resigned from the Senate I wanted to see Al Franken run.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:33 PM   #20
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Meadmaker.

In what way is Bernie an "avowed socialist"? The only problem with it is that he once said it long ago.
There's nothing he proposes that calls for the scaremongering he usually receives.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:33 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Some news organization the other day complained that, under Warren's tax plan, Jeff Bezos would have to pay something like $73 billion in taxes.

Oh, the horrors!

Now, what's the bad news?
It's not true. But he definitely would pay more.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:49 PM   #22
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Warren looks younger than she is. She takes selfies with... well... everyone. And she moves fast. Biden and Sanders look older than their years. Her presidency would also be a a historic first for Native Americans.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:57 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Meadmaker.

In what way is Bernie an "avowed socialist"? The only problem with it is that he once said it long ago.
There's nothing he proposes that calls for the scaremongering he usually receives.
He still calls himself that on the regular. Not that I think it really matters or is a bad thing - he's just applying a different label to what used to be known as "New Deal Liberalism." But it's an ongoing thing with him.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 08:07 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It's not true. But he definitely would pay more.
Here's what it (the 2 cent tax on each dollar of wealth over 50 million) would mean:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/he...ett-2019-09-10
Quote:
The paper, by economists Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman of the University of California at Berkeley, finds that the top 15 wealthiest Americans as estimated by Forbes magazine would collectively have seen their net worth drop to just under $434 billion had Warrenís plan been in effect since 1982. Thatís down from about $942 billion.
https://www.ccn.com/jeff-bezos-net-w...en-wealth-tax/
Quote:
How would Warrenís wealth tax affect the Bezos fortune moving forward?

Together, Jeff Bezos and ex-wife MacKenzie would pay $4.8 billion per year on their current $160 billion in combined net worth. That's approximately 76,000 times the median US household income of $63,179.
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Last edited by kellyb; 23rd September 2019 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 08:34 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
It's not a fib. For real.

If I could prove to you it's not a fib, would that matter to you?
Yes. I think it's a fib. I think the kind of spending she's talking about would require a significant tax increase, and not just on rich people. I don't think the money is there without dipping into the middle class.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 08:41 PM   #26
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Every Americans natural instinct should be to rally to Biden when the President uses his bully pulpit to attack him and pressures foreign governments to dig up dirt.

What happened to rooting for the underdog?
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Old 23rd September 2019, 08:59 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Yes. I think it's a fib. I think the kind of spending she's talking about would require a significant tax increase, and not just on rich people. I don't think the money is there without dipping into the middle class.
Do you think this is bunk, or....?
https://www.newsweek.com/mega-wealth...th-tax-1445554
Quote:
Warren's goal is to manage this inequality by implementing a wealth tax on individuals and families with $50 million or more in assets. According to the senator's projections, the moderate tax would raise some $2.75 trillion in additional revenue for the government over 10 years. Warren's proposals would use this additional money to pay for a range of programs, such as drastically reduced healthcare and education costs, which includes student loan debt forgiveness for millions of Americans.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 09:13 PM   #28
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I don't want Biden to win the primary, but we should not be paying attention to false allegations except to attack the accuser.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 09:15 PM   #29
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Yeah, about that smear... Posted this to whistleblower thread too. Quite, well, openly shameless: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckra...aine-narrative
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Old 23rd September 2019, 11:17 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Do you think this is bunk, or....?
https://www.newsweek.com/mega-wealth...th-tax-1445554
Perhaps you missed this part, which you quoted but strangely did not bold:

"According to the senator's projections..."
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Old 24th September 2019, 12:33 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Perhaps you missed this part, which you quoted but strangely did not bold:

"According to the senator's projections..."
Who has better numbers?
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Old 24th September 2019, 12:43 AM   #32
a_unique_person
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Perhaps you missed this part, which you quoted but strangely did not bold:

"According to the senator's projections..."

I agree. I'd hate to think that Bezos had to pay any more than 4.8 billion out of his 164 billion.
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:43 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Here's what it (the 2 cent tax on each dollar of wealth over 50 million) would mean:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/he...ett-2019-09-10


https://www.ccn.com/jeff-bezos-net-w...en-wealth-tax/
Interesting paper.


Pretty messed up, but interesting.

It'll take some time to digest completely.
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Old 24th September 2019, 04:56 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Who has better numbers?
What in the history of the country makes you think these people would actually pay it, though? Part of the problem in the past has been big companies like GE paying no taxes whatsoever by using offshore account, loopholes, etc. Raising their tax rate does not solve this problem. It just gives them even more incentive to play the shell game.

Also, the former Mrs. Bezos is going to be responsible for some of that tax money now as well .
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Old 24th September 2019, 05:58 AM   #35
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The Biden Case is a test case of whether US media finally have their priorities straight, or whether they are still trapped in a desperate need to appear "fair and balanced" at any cost.
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Old 24th September 2019, 06:33 AM   #36
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Seems that a primary would be the perfect case for using ranked choice voting.

Bernie and Warren are running on closely related platforms, appealing to the progressive wing of the party. Biden is leading the entire pack, but I would guess that ranked choice would reveal a stronger preference for a progressive candidate over Biden.

If either Warren or Bernie were to drop, I imagine most of the support would come over to the other and they would be ahead of Biden.

Edit: Fixed, thanks Yuppy.
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Old 24th September 2019, 07:05 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Seems that a primary would be the perfect case for using ranked choice voting.

Biden and Warren are running on closely related platforms, appealing to the progressive wing of the party. Biden is leading, I would guess that ranked choice would reveal a stronger preference for a progressive candidate over Biden.

If either Warren or Bernie were to drop, I imagine most of the support would come over to the other and they would be ahead of Biden.
Did you use the names you meant to, especially that first one?
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Old 24th September 2019, 07:16 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Did you use the names you meant to, especially that first one?
I did not, fixed it. Thanks
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Old 24th September 2019, 07:28 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Here's what it (the 2 cent tax on each dollar of wealth over 50 million) would mean:

the top 15 wealthiest Americans as estimated by Forbes magazine would collectively have seen their net worth drop to just under $434 billion had Warrenís plan been in effect since 1982. Thatís down from about $942 billion.


What a tragedy.
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Old 24th September 2019, 07:50 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post

the top 15 wealthiest Americans as estimated by Forbes magazine would collectively have seen their net worth drop to just under $434 billion had Warrenís plan been in effect since 1982. Thatís down from about $942 billion.


What a tragedy.
Hey, that's millions fewer jobs created!
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