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Tags donald trump , impeachment , rudy giuliani , Trump controversies

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Old 24th September 2019, 01:53 PM   #81
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
In the same way that making a sequel instead of coming up with something original seems like an obvious choice to Hollywood.
Sequels are often more successful than the original. Let's hope history repeats itself.
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:04 PM   #82
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Trump just said that this impeachment nonsense is just going to boost his election for another term.

Really? How does he figure?
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:07 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Hopefully Trump will add Giuliani to his crack legal defense team.
"Crack" being the accurate term
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:10 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
More of a "these", then, but whatever.

Which "this" have I posted about three times in this thread?
If you click on your username just to the left of your post, there's a dropdown menu that will allow you to see all of your previous posts.

Feel free to peruse them at your leisure.
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:12 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
If you click on your username just to the left of your post, there's a dropdown menu that will allow you to see all of your previous posts.



Feel free to peruse them at your leisure.
I have. I don't see what you're talking about. That's why I asked.
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:15 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I have. I don't see what you're talking about. That's why I asked.
Which part are you not seeing? That you had posted three times? Or that you repeatedly expressed boredom and lack of interest?
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:16 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Hopefully Trump will add Giuliani to his crack legal defense team.
Why, oh why, is that man still in the picture? He hardly has any foot left to put in his mouth. Giuliani reminds me of a toxic Dumbo.
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:28 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Trump just said that this impeachment nonsense is just going to boost his election for another term.

Really? How does he figure?
Well, its been mentioned elsewhere that attempts at removing Clinton from office failed, and afterwards his popularity increased, so the suggestion is not totally without precedent. (And its unlikely that republicans in the Senate will remove him without something major happening.)

I doubt that the impeachment will bring Trump any new supporters, but I can see the possibility that it make take some of his less... enthusiastic supporters (the ones who voted for him in 2016 but might have sat out 2020) and getting them to go to the polls. Or if Trump is left in office, for Democrats to become despondent and think "Why vote at all?". Both would improve Trump's chances at reelection.

Not that I am saying that will happen, but it is a risk.
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:32 PM   #89
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Quote:
Hopefully Trump will add Giuliani to his crack legal defense team.
Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Why, oh why, is that man still in the picture? He hardly has any foot left to put in his mouth. Giuliani reminds me of a toxic Dumbo.
But imagine how awesome it will be to see Trump giving testimony with Giuliani sitting next to him whispering advice to him. It would be glorious!
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:34 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Ya, I figured out a while ago you go right past his "contributions" to these discussions.
The forum software can be your friend.

Also, I agree that a narrow focus is best. I don’t know whether Ukraine is the best approach or merely the latest approach.

I do know it has to have Republican backing or it will go nowhere. Mitch has shown he’s more than willing to sell his country out to further his agenda or, more accurately, his wallet.
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:36 PM   #91
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but will he sell out other Republicans to save his own seat?
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:44 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
but will he sell out other Republicans to save his own seat?
Depends on who, I suppose.
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:22 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I am however extremely disappointed in America in that we haven't yet bestowed a code name based upon a porn movie title to the whistleblower.
May I suggest Dank Oats? Although it doesn't sound like a great porn movie.
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Old 24th September 2019, 03:46 PM   #94
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This impeachment might be the one thing in his life that Trump can actually honestly say he's worked for.
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Old 24th September 2019, 04:17 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Which part are you not seeing? That you had posted three times? Or that you repeatedly expressed boredom and lack of interest?
Repeatedly expressed boredom. I think you completely misunderstood Belz...'s exchange with me.

I posted about something on this topic that interested me. Belz... offered something else that he thought was interesting, but I disagreed. A grand total of two posts, only one of which was about something I found uninteresting, and even that was in response to a point that Belz... raised with me in the first place.

So I'm definitely not seeing the part where I repeatedly expressed lack of interest. Let alone three times. Are you sure that actually happened? Because all I see is two posts, one where I say 'this is interesting', and one where I say, '... but that isn't.'
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Old 24th September 2019, 04:46 PM   #96
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There is already an impeachment thread.
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Old 24th September 2019, 05:19 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Right. And that seems very clear and obvious: This Ukraine thing and maybe the Mueller probe obstruction charges. Anything beyond that is less significant so I don't see much to speculate about.
Impeachment isn't about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office of the president.
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Old 24th September 2019, 05:24 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Repeatedly expressed boredom. I think you completely misunderstood Belz...'s exchange with me.
No, I think I understand very well.

Quote:
I posted about something on this topic that interested me.
Well, you made a sarcastic remark that feigned interest for the purpose of disparaging Trump’s critics, but sure. You “expressed interest”.

Quote:
Belz... offered something else that he thought was interesting, but I disagreed. A grand total of two posts, only one of which was about something I found uninteresting, and even that was in response to a point that Belz... raised with me in the first place.

So I'm definitely not seeing the part where I repeatedly expressed lack of interest. Let alone three times. Are you sure that actually happened? Because all I see is two posts, one where I say 'this is interesting', and one where I say, '... but that isn't.'
If you say so.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That's not interesting at all.
Quote:
That is pretty boring, politics as usual type stuff.
Quote:
Ranting about how the Republicans are unwilling to impeach might have been interesting a couple years ago, when it had some chance of being a novel insight.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Banalities that are not actually in dispute.
Quote:
Not interesting.
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Old 24th September 2019, 07:05 PM   #99
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Time is running out for Flynn if he thinks he'll get that Pardon.
Maybe he should tell his stories to the Impeachment Inquiry instead...
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Old 24th September 2019, 07:16 PM   #100
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All this time and all the laws he's broken, while she kept protecting him from himself... and now she finally quits putting herself in the way when he happens to hit one that's practically identical to something Hillary did. Is she trying to make this impeachment as unimpeachy as possible on him by handing him his dream PR setup? Oh... wait, I just remembered who she is, so... yes. Of course she is.
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Old 24th September 2019, 07:23 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Time is running out for Flynn if he thinks he'll get that Pardon.
Maybe he should tell his stories to the Impeachment Inquiry instead...
Flynn is now saying he won't cooperate; he'll take the 5th.
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Old 24th September 2019, 07:30 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
After three years of desperate searching for The One Thing, it'll be interesting to see what the Dems actually settle on for their big play.
I think your characterization of "desperate searching" is completely off target. If you don't think that Trump is, and has been, a criminal president, then you are wearing your red blindfold too tightly.

In any reasonable, non-partisan, non-corrupt Congress, impeaching Trump would be a slam dunk. The evidence is right there in the Mueller Report for all to see, but Pelosi understands two importing things...

1. The issues are very complex... too complex for everyday Americans to understand. It's why they haven't been on board so far... only a very small percentage of Americans have read the Mueller Report.

2. The Senate would never convict because the corruption on the Republican side is so great, and Pelosi is well aware that failure to convict in the Senate would be trumpeted loudly by Trumpworld as "total exoneration"

It occurs to me that Nancy Pelosi has been very canny over the last few months. IMO, she is capable of wiping the floor with Trump in any debate. Trump is playing political checkers at novice level, against Pelosi who is playing chess at Grand Master level. She has resisted the increasing calls for impeachment from the Democrat caucus in part, because she understands the limitation of the American people to understand. What she has needed was something that people could readily understand, a criminal act that puts the security the whole country at risk, including those very same everyday Americans. Pelosi has been playing the long game.

I would not characterize what Pelosi has been doing as "desperate searching", I would characterize it as "biding her time" and "feeding more rope".
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Old 24th September 2019, 07:44 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
This sounds like something that should be rather obvious if impeachment is indeed that close. I mean, if you don't even have a good idea which "high crimes and misdemeanors" you are going to include yet, maybe you should start there before you start talking about impeachment.
Impeachment is a political issue. High crimes and misdemeanors is not defined. In theory dereliction of duty or they don't like the way he combs his hair could be reason enough to impeach someone. Remember the Republicans impeached Clinton for lying about consensual sex. Republican Senators have already said they will quash the articles of impeachment. And that backfired big time because it came off as petty and partisan.

So this is really about standing up for the Republic and our principles. And that message must be sent loudly and clearly to the voting public.

The GOP is going to try and spin this as a partisan witch hunt. The Democrats must make it clear it is anything but.
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Old 24th September 2019, 07:49 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Trump just said that this impeachment nonsense is just going to boost his election for another term.

Really? How does he figure?
If that were a sincere question, it would be worth answering.

Ask again on November 4, 2020.
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Old 24th September 2019, 07:55 PM   #105
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The problem with America is news islands. Almost everyone is in their echo chamber of choice without dissenting opinions, so everyone gets their opinion affirmed constantly, because no one is willing to tell someone on their own team that they're wrong.

Sean Hannity was in a really good mood on his radio show this afternoon.
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Old 24th September 2019, 07:58 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I just hope they know what they are doing. I really do.
They don't. They really don't.

This is 1998 all over again but with the team jerseys switched.
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Old 24th September 2019, 08:19 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
They don't. They really don't.

This is 1998 all over again but with the team jerseys switched.
No it's not even close. Trump has committed very serious crimes. He has endangered our democracy. The only thing Clinton may have endangered was his marriage.
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Old 25th September 2019, 12:51 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
They don't. They really don't.

This is 1998 all over again but with the team jerseys switched.
Err no.

Bill Clinton was investigated and impeached for...

1. Lying about a blow-job

Donald Trump is being investigated for a raft of serious crimes and law breaches, including

1. Obstruction of justice - multiple counts
2. Tax fraud - multiple counts
3. Money laundering
4. Violations of the emoluments clause - multiple counts
5. Inauguration finance fraud - multiple counts
6. Insurance fraud - multiple counts
7. Russian interference in the 2016 election
8. Violations of the campaign finance laws
9. Real estate fraud - multiple counts
10. Abuses of the White House security clearance process
11. Misuse of charitable assets involving self-dealing
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Old 25th September 2019, 02:05 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
The problem with America is news islands. Almost everyone is in their echo chamber of choice without dissenting opinions, so everyone gets their opinion affirmed constantly, because no one is willing to tell someone on their own team that they're wrong.

Sean Hannity was in a really good mood on his radio show this afternoon.
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
They don't. They really don't.

This is 1998 all over again but with the team jerseys switched.
Republicans thought they could bring down a very popular president when Ken Starr's witch hunt finally produced something they could use, only to find out that most people didn't care about Clinton's sex life, or at least didn't think lying about it prevented him from doing a good job as president. Democrats think they can bring down the most unpopular president we've ever had when yet another example of illegal, self-serving abuse of power appears out of the blue, and this time it's one that affects our national security. This is much more like 1974, only worse. I do believe that trumpers who have laughed off Trump's approval rating -- and why they are what they are -- are on a collision course with reality.

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Old 25th September 2019, 03:15 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That's not interesting at all.
Oh, I find it very interesting that one party ignores criminal activity altogether just because it's politically expedient.

They have no moral core anymore.
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Old 25th September 2019, 03:15 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
They don't. They really don't.

This is 1998 all over again but with the team jerseys switched.
What were you saying about news islands?
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Old 25th September 2019, 03:17 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Agreed, but the huge problem I have with Impeahcment is the chances of getting a conviction are zero.
I don't think they're doing it to get a conviction.

I think, or hope, they're doing it to focus on a small, egregious set of crimes so that the American people sees the same, repeated truths day in and day out, and come to associate Trump with "bad" instinctively. I think, or hope, it's an election move.
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Old 25th September 2019, 03:56 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
They don't. They really don't.

This is 1998 all over again but with the team jerseys switched.
Good you should be able to provide a good list of proven serious felonies that his co-conspirators are in prison for that Clinton was given a pass on. Bah it is just more of that pointless watergate crap that made a good president resign. When a president does it, it's legal after all.
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Old 25th September 2019, 04:06 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Donald Trump is being investigated for a raft of serious crimes and law breaches, including

1. Obstruction of justice - multiple counts
2. Tax fraud - multiple counts
3. Money laundering
4. Violations of the emoluments clause - multiple counts
5. Inauguration finance fraud - multiple counts
6. Insurance fraud - multiple counts
7. Russian interference in the 2016 election
8. Violations of the campaign finance laws
9. Real estate fraud - multiple counts
10. Abuses of the White House security clearance process
11. Misuse of charitable assets involving self-dealing
Could you go into a little more detail on these? There's been so many accusations of wrong-doing by Trump I've lost track of what he's done.
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Old 25th September 2019, 04:14 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Ian Osborne View Post
Could you go into a little more detail on these? There's been so many accusations of wrong-doing by Trump I've lost track of what he's done.
It'd be shorter to list the wrongdoings he hasn't committed.
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Old 25th September 2019, 04:16 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Ian Osborne View Post
Could you go into a little more detail on these? There's been so many accusations of wrong-doing by Trump I've lost track of what he's done.
I'll start (not complete by a long shot):

Donald Trump is being investigated for a raft of serious crimes and law breaches, including

1. Obstruction of justice - multiple counts
telling staffers to fire Mueller. telling them to destroy the notes about him telling them to fire Mueller
2. Tax fraud - multiple counts
taking out loans with himself to avoid taxes. Massively undervaluing his property to avoid taxes.
3. Money laundering
selling massively overpriced real estate to Russian Oligarchs
4. Violations of the emoluments clause - multiple counts
Trump Hotel Washington, Golf Courses, Mar-a-Lago
5. Inauguration finance fraud - multiple counts
foreigners buying tickets, money spend on Trump's defense etc.
6. Insurance fraud - multiple counts
faked evaluations
7. Russian interference in the 2016 election
Trump Tower Meeting, telling Flynn to go after HRC emails, coordination of release of Podesta Emails via Roger Stone
8. Violations of the campaign finance laws
...
9. Real estate fraud - multiple counts
...
10. Abuses of the White House security clearance process
superseding expert verdicts to deny security clearances, allowing false statements on applications to be ignored.
11. Misuse of charitable assets involving self-dealing
using charity money for personal use
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Old 25th September 2019, 04:19 AM   #117
SuburbanTurkey
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Err no.

Bill Clinton was investigated and impeached for...

1. Lying about a blow-job
Bill Clinton was lucky he was president in the 90's and not now, because I think the culture has shifted on whether what he did was impeachable or not. Sure, he lied about a blowjob, but that's not really it. He used his considerable power in an attempt to derail a credible accusation of sexual harassment. Hiding his relationship with Lewinsky was not just to avoid personal embarrassment for a one-time affair, but to hide his longtime habit of engaging in inappropriate relationships with his subordinates, which was extremely relevant to civil suit. This scandal has not aged well in the me too era. Clinton was a gross creep that used his power to shield himself from the consequences of his actions.

That all said, a personal scandal is almost certainly less egregious than the type of corruption that Trump is accused of. Withholding taxpayer money to put the squeeze on a foreign power so that they will investigate a potential political rival is beyond the pale, even in the scummy world of washington.
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Old 25th September 2019, 04:23 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Republicans thought they could bring down a very popular president when Ken Starr's witch hunt finally produced something they could use, only to find out that most people didn't care about Clinton's sex life, or at least didn't think lying about it prevented him from doing a good job as president. Democrats think they can bring down the most unpopular president we've ever had when yet another example of illegal, self-serving abuse of power appears out of the blue, and this time it's one that affects our national security. This is much more like 1974, only worse. I do believe that trumpers who have laughed off Trump's approval rating -- and why they are what they are -- are on a collision course with reality.
Well someone is on a collision course with reality. I guess it will take some time to figure out who.

And even if it turns out wrong, I'll stand before the Lord of Song, with nothing on my lips but Hallelujah.
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Old 25th September 2019, 04:55 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Well someone is on a collision course with reality. I guess it will take some time to figure out who.
Speaking of reality... It's a fact that Trump's purported high crimes and misdemeanors are in an entirely different league than those of Clinton. You know that of course. Drawing parallels concerning the underlying facts would be starkly anti-reality. I hope and assume that's not what you're doing.

Maybe your inferences about the electoral outcome are right. Maybe not. It's premature to declare future reality, oozing confidence no less. It's concerning though, that's for sure.
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Old 25th September 2019, 05:06 AM   #120
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I think we all owe Trump a big apology, he really is quite considerate.

Consider the Russia election scandal. So many moving parts, vagueness, plausible deniability, Russian cut-outs, long drawn out investigations, etc. Much too complicated for Joe Sixpack to really sink his teeth into and get agitated.

So Trump comes out with his own, new and improved, election scandal. Straight-forward and easily digestible corruption. A political scandal that even the dimmest American can easily get their mind around.

Trump truly is a man of the people.
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