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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 29th September 2019, 10:31 AM   #361
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Sorta? As was pointed made clear after the examination of Hillary's e-mails, information can certainly be classified after there was time to discuss it. There's excellent reason to think that the Trump Administration is up to no good, because, well, it's horrendously corrupt, inept, ignores the law all the time, and constantly makes brazenly evil decisions, but that doesn't mean that classifying things that happened in a previous administration is necessarily illegal or out of bounds, though the timing certainly makes it distinctly suspicious.
It depends on how they use it.
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Old 29th September 2019, 12:04 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I think Giuliani managed to control the narrative, and make the whole fiasco about Joe and Hunter Biden and confusion about Ukrainian oligarchs and prosecutors.

One thing that came out was that he says Pompeo was aware of his actions.
A number of people tried to throw Giuliani under the bus until Trump pulled him onboard in the call transcript.
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Old 29th September 2019, 12:09 PM   #363
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Q: How many lawyers does it take to get Trump impeached?

A: Giuliani.
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Old 29th September 2019, 12:39 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I am amazed at how eerily Trump is able to identify all the problems his narrative has, and attribute it to his opponents as a preemptive "no you are".
In a weird way, this requires a lot of introspection.
It's because he does not compose or send those tweets. He's too busy golfing. Someone with a brain is running that feed.
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Old 29th September 2019, 01:12 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
All his thoughts are on "winning" the next election, he can't seem to think about anything else.
Minor correction, although I'd accept "thoughts" in scare quotes
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Old 29th September 2019, 01:47 PM   #366
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Why haven't so the latest tweets from Trump been posted yet? Hurry up, people.
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Old 29th September 2019, 01:50 PM   #367
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For example

Mark Levin sure put that lying **** head Ed Henry in his place didn’t he?
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Old 29th September 2019, 02:08 PM   #368
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The worst part of Trump's campaign to discredit Joe Biden (Biden calls it a "smear") is that it is based on a transparent lie. Biden didn't try and get the Ukraine prosecutor fired to save his (Biden's) son, he was delivering a message from the U.S. Government, our allies and even pro-democracy activists in Ukraine.
Quote:
Biden was not simply relaying the message pushed by the Obama administration, but that his position was supported by Ukrainian anti-corruption activists, European allies, and even groups like the International Monetary Foundation (IMF). As Tom Malinowski, former assistant secretary of state under Obama, recalled this week, “All of us working on Ukraine wanted this prosecutor gone, because he was NOT prosecuting corruption. So did the Europeans. So did the IMF. This didn't come from Joe Biden—he just delivered our message.” Link

In the phone call to the Ukrainian president, Trump said "A lot of people are talking about...the way they shut your very good prosecutor down...I heard the prosecutor was treated very badly and he was a very fair prosecutor." But he wasn't a good nor very fair prosecutor. He was corrupt.

To turn all of the facts on their head in order to discredit Biden (who leads Trump in 2020 polling) is not only itself corrupt, but dangerous in that other nations and the IMF were involved in the effort to get the prosecutor removed. What do they think when they read Trump's garbage?
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Old 29th September 2019, 02:08 PM   #369
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He's just retweeting any random person that is watching Fox & Friends, dozens of them!
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Old 29th September 2019, 02:16 PM   #370
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Then he's off to his golf course to play golf again. It is good to be king. That will be two days in a row. Obama never had it this good.
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Old 29th September 2019, 02:16 PM   #371
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Including Shark Trump bot.
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Old 29th September 2019, 02:22 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
In the phone call to the Ukrainian president, Trump said "A lot of people are talking about...the way they shut your very good prosecutor down...I heard the prosecutor was treated very badly and he was a very fair prosecutor." But he wasn't a good nor very fair prosecutor. He was corrupt.

To turn all of the facts on their head in order to discredit Biden (who leads Trump in 2020 polling) is not only itself corrupt, but dangerous in that other nations and the IMF were involved in the effort to get the prosecutor removed. What do they think when they read Trump's garbage?


You have to remember that Trump is an honest-to-god, dyed-in-the-wool conspiracy theorist, and so, like all the other CTs out there, when he posts obvious lies in support of his BS, you need to remember: he's not lying to us, he's lying to the people who will support his BS. If you can see the obvious BS for what it is, you're not the intended audience for his lies.

The scary part is that there are enough people out there who are his intended audience to allow him to be elected in the first place, and to make him a credible threat for re-election.
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Old 29th September 2019, 02:28 PM   #373
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Hugh Hewitt, one of Trump's big time jounalistic defenders, publiched a Op ed piece in the WAPO about how the Demovraticds are endangering America by distracting attention from the real menace:Iran.
Aside from my "did not learn anything from Iraq, did he?' I am beginning to worry that Trump might use the ultimate distraction from the Impeahcment crisis:War.
yes, I am fully convinced Trump is capable of starting a war if he thnks it would save his presidency.
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Old 29th September 2019, 02:32 PM   #374
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As long as he only invades Grenada it will be ok.
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Old 29th September 2019, 02:45 PM   #375
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Somestime non politicians can sum it up best: Robert De Niro sure as hell spoke for me with his comments on Trump on CNN Reliable Sources.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...-trump-892374/

"Crazy, guy is just crazy..worse then he imiganied..we gotta get him out".

That just about sums it up beaufifully.
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Old 29th September 2019, 03:24 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
The worst part of Trump's campaign to discredit Joe Biden (Biden calls it a "smear") is that it is based on a transparent lie. Biden didn't try and get the Ukraine prosecutor fired to save his (Biden's) son, he was delivering a message from the U.S. Government, our allies and even pro-democracy activists in Ukraine.



In the phone call to the Ukrainian president, Trump said "A lot of people are talking about...the way they shut your very good prosecutor down...I heard the prosecutor was treated very badly and he was a very fair prosecutor." But he wasn't a good nor very fair prosecutor. He was corrupt.

To turn all of the facts on their head in order to discredit Biden (who leads Trump in 2020 polling) is not only itself corrupt, but dangerous in that other nations and the IMF were involved in the effort to get the prosecutor removed. What do they think when they read Trump's garbage?
Not only that but guess what blatant fact the news media hasn't quite registered?

The corrupt prosecutor in question was not going after the company Hunter worked, he was protecting the associated Oligarch from UK sanctions.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/09/w...iden-ties.html

Ding ding ding...
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Old 29th September 2019, 03:38 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
The worst part of Trump's campaign to discredit Joe Biden (Biden calls it a "smear") is that it is based on a transparent lie. Biden didn't try and get the Ukraine prosecutor fired to save his (Biden's) son, he was delivering a message from the U.S. Government, our allies and even pro-democracy activists in Ukraine.



In the phone call to the Ukrainian president, Trump said "A lot of people are talking about...the way they shut your very good prosecutor down...I heard the prosecutor was treated very badly and he was a very fair prosecutor." But he wasn't a good nor very fair prosecutor. He was corrupt.

To turn all of the facts on their head in order to discredit Biden (who leads Trump in 2020 polling) is not only itself corrupt, but dangerous in that other nations and the IMF were involved in the effort to get the prosecutor removed. What do they think when they read Trump's garbage?
They think that the U.S. is run by a gang of lying ******** who will do absolutely anything to win and who have no shame or morality whatsoever, and that nearly half of all Americans are themselves worthless scum who are just fine with it. And they're right.
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Old 29th September 2019, 03:44 PM   #378
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Food for thought:

Children in cages: not a good enough reason.

Working with hostile powers to subvert an election: not a good enough reason.

Self-enrichment and inside dealing: not a good enough reason.

Attacking Joe Biden: IMPEACH HIM NAO!

Democrats are a funny lot.
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Old 29th September 2019, 03:54 PM   #379
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Trump Tweets

Like every American, I deserve to meet my accuser, especially when this accuser, the so-called “Whistleblower,” represented a perfect conversation with a foreign leader in a totally inaccurate and fraudulent way. Then Schiff made up what I actually said by lying to Congress......

His lies were made in perhaps the most blatant and sinister manner ever seen in the great Chamber. He wrote down and read terrible things, then said it was from the mouth of the President of the United States. I want Schiff questioned at the highest level for Fraud & Treason.....

....In addition, I want to meet not only my accuser, who presented SECOND & THIRD HAND INFORMATION, but also the person who illegally gave this information, which was largely incorrect, to the “Whistleblower.” Was this person SPYING on the U.S. President? Big Consequences!
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:06 PM   #380
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Trump didn't write that. It's correctly spelled and somewhat coherent, and it's not bat-**** insane enough!
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:12 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Food for thought:

Children in cages: not a good enough reason.

Working with hostile powers to subvert an election: not a good enough reason.

Self-enrichment and inside dealing: not a good enough reason.

Attacking Joe Biden: IMPEACH HIM NAO!

Democrats are a funny lot.
They've let him get away with so much they shouldn't target him now? I hope that becomes a Republican talking point.

Separate from impeachment is an issue that may be more fundamental to Senate Republicans - the way Trump added strings to the Ukrainian aid that they never intended it to have. I keep saying that such foreign-policy issues are opening some daylight between them and Trump. There's a tipping point for them as well, I think. Pure speculation though.
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:14 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
They've let him get away with so much they shouldn't target him now? I hope that becomes a Republican talking point.
You could have at least put "so, ..." at the beginning.

Nowhere did I say he shouldn't be impeached.


Quote:
Separate from impeachment is an issue that may be more fundamental to Senate Republicans - the way Trump added strings to the Ukrainian aid that they never intended it to have. I keep saying that such foreign-policy issues are opening some daylight between them and Trump. There's a tipping point for them as well, I think. Pure speculation though.
I understand the underlying issue.

I don't think that's what moved the same caucus that sat on its hands when way more egregious violations happened.

"You can't explain a variable with a constant."

Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 29th September 2019 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:20 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Like every American, I deserve to meet my accuser, especially when this accuser, the so-called “Whistleblower,” represented a perfect conversation with a foreign leader in a totally inaccurate and fraudulent way. Then Schiff made up what I actually said by lying to Congress......

His lies were made in perhaps the most blatant and sinister manner ever seen in the great Chamber. He wrote down and read terrible things, then said it was from the mouth of the President of the United States. I want Schiff questioned at the highest level for Fraud & Treason.....

....In addition, I want to meet not only my accuser, who presented SECOND & THIRD HAND INFORMATION, but also the person who illegally gave this information, which was largely incorrect, to the “Whistleblower.” Was this person SPYING on the U.S. President? Big Consequences!
I'd give even odds that Trump not only HAS met the whistleblower, but that the whistleblower got at least part of his information directly from Trump in the oval office.
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:21 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

I want Schiff questioned at the highest level for Fraud & Treason.....
The feeling is mutual, I'm sure.

Quote:
....In addition, I want to meet not only my accuser, who presented SECOND & THIRD HAND INFORMATION, but also the person who illegally gave this information, which was largely incorrect, to the “Whistleblower.” Was this person SPYING on the U.S. President? Big Consequences!
Ah, but that's the rub. Someone is always spying on this president - his own handpicked "best (acting) people." They can't stand you, Trump. That's why they keep turning on you while kissing your ass in public.

Americans have a presumed right to meet their accuser in court. If only there were legal proceedings that could be initiated ...
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:23 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Food for thought:

Children in cages: not a good enough reason.

Working with hostile powers to subvert an election: not a good enough reason.

Self-enrichment and inside dealing: not a good enough reason.

Attacking Joe Biden: IMPEACH HIM NAO!

Democrats are a funny lot.
This is a total distortion of the facts.
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:25 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Trump didn't write that. It's correctly spelled and somewhat coherent, and it's not bat-**** insane enough!
That first sentence is classic not-Trump. He'd be whining how unfair the witch hunt was.
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:26 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Trump didn't write that. It's correctly spelled and somewhat coherent, and it's not bat-**** insane enough!

You have become somewhat desensitised to Trumps tweets (whoever is creating them). It's insane alright, just not bat ***** insane.
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:29 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This is a total distortion of the facts.
Oh, well I missed when Trump was impeached for those things.

My mistake.
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:35 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
You could have at least put "so, ..." at the beginning.

Nowhere did I say he shouldn't be impeached.




I understand the underlying issue.

I don't think that's what moved the same caucus that sat on its hands when way more egregious violations happened.

"You can't explain a variable with a constant."
It's not a constant, though. Things build up over time. Even with Senate Republicans. I wouldn't want to place bets on when that will happen, though.

ETA: That's the caucus that has been sitting on its hands. House Dems were postponing a risky maneuver, IMO for valid strategic reasons.

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Old 29th September 2019, 04:41 PM   #390
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Quote:
During a July 25 phone call, Trump made reference to the cybersecurity firm Crowdstrike, which had investigated the hacking of the Democratic National Committee's computers during the 2016 campaign, but did not turn over the server to the FBI. Trump indicated that the server could presently be in Ukraine.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giu...ma-involvement


The case of the missing server? What morons. If a server was a data risk for anyone the first thing you would do is take the disks out, smash them, the smash the server and send it off to the tip. The idea that it would be secreted out to the Ukraine, and presumabley hidden there, is just another wacky Trumpism.
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:46 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Oh, well I missed when Trump was impeached for those things.

My mistake.
There are a few questions that may be asked when deciding whether to start pursuing impeachment.

(1) Is the act (objectively) serious enough to warrant impeachment? (The notion that there's any objective answer to this may strike some as ridiculous and others as plausible.)

(2) Can we convince (most of) the voting public that this is serious enough to warrant impeachment?

(3) Can we convince at least some Republican Congressmen of the same?

For (2), the act has to be one that most folk can understand and agree is bad. The Ukraine thing is just such an issue, not because poor widdle Biden was victimized, but because Trump is using foreign policy to gain political advantage in an illegitimate way. That's pretty easy to see is wrong, if you can convince folks that this is what happened. The fact that we have a knowledgeable whistleblower bringing the allegation, evidently a career civil servant (if that's an appropriate term for a CIA analyst) helps make this case.

Now, personally, I care more about (1) than (2) or (3), even though some here may scoff at the presuppositions for (1). Those who care about (3) (David Brooks and George Will are in that camp, as are Trump defenders and some Democrats) primarily would say that this isn't the time and there probably is no time for impeachment, since there is no hint the Republicans will cave on any issue ever. This is probably too cynical and perhaps once the evidence comes out, some Republicans will rediscover a spine.

So I wouldn't say that attacking Biden is a step too far. It's not really about Biden, far as I'm concerned. If it turns out that Biden really was illegitimately interfering in Ukraine in order to protect his son (which seems terribly unlikely given what we know), I'd like that to become known and for his political career to be over. But I'd also say that Trump's actions deserve impeachment because he has not acted in the interest of the U.S. or justice but in his narrow political interest.
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:47 PM   #392
Delphic Oracle
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
It's not a constant, though. Things build up over time. Even with Senate Republicans. I wouldn't want to place bets on when that will happen, though.

ETA: That's the caucus that has been sitting on its hands. Dems were postponing a risky maneuver, for valid strategic reasons.
I'm not convinced that a significant portion of Congress is deeply disturbed that a President might attach conditionalities to American foreign policy.

I despise it, please understand.

But also understand how those 2 statements differ.
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:48 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Oh, well I missed when Trump was impeached for those things.

My mistake.
The distortion was that Biden has anything other than a tangential figuring into the cause of these impeachment demands.

It’s like saying the Watergate scandal was simply about the bugging of the DNC headquarters.
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Old 29th September 2019, 05:00 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I'm not convinced that a significant portion of Congress is deeply disturbed that a President might attach conditionalities to American foreign policy.

I despise it, please understand.

But also understand how those 2 statements differ.
They wouldn't be disturbed about a president doing that in faithful execution of his duties, but that's not what happened, and the ignorance schtick is getting tiresome.
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Old 29th September 2019, 05:01 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
The distortion was that Biden has anything other than a tangential figuring into the cause of these impeachment demands.



It’s like saying the Watergate scandal was simply about the bugging of the DNC headquarters.
What's the reason for Trump wanting to intimidate Ukraine?

What would he gain by their comliance?

"Tangential" my left ass cheek...

No, what I said is nothing like your distorted analogy.
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Old 29th September 2019, 05:02 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Food for thought:

Children in cages: not a good enough reason.
Sadly, for most people, it's not.

Quote:
Working with hostile powers to subvert an election: not a good enough reason.
If Mueller had not concluded that he saw no collusion, the Dems may well have impeached him. But, Mueller did say that.
Quote:
Self-enrichment and inside dealing: not a good enough reason.
That investigation is still ongoing. So far, it has not been proven. Certainly not enough to bring impeachment proceedings. I still have hopes strong evidence of this is discovered. We can say it's obvious he's been enriching himself through his office, but until something definitive is found, there's not much Congress can do.

Quote:
Attacking Joe Biden: IMPEACH HIM NAO!

Democrats are a funny lot.
It had nothing to do with Trump attacking Joe Biden per se. It had to do with trying to use funds approved by Congress to extort information on a political rival from a foreign government in the next election. It could have been Warren, Sanders, or any of the other primary candidates.

So far, this is the strongest case for impeachment they've found.
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Old 29th September 2019, 05:03 PM   #397
Delphic Oracle
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
They wouldn't be disturbed about a president doing that in faithful execution of his duties, but that's not what happened, and the ignorance schtick is getting tiresome.
Oh, there's a "faithful" way to improperly influence foreign countries.

Your resorting to insults schtick was never interesting to begin with.
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Old 29th September 2019, 05:04 PM   #398
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Quote:
If Mueller had not concluded that he saw no collusion, the Dems may well have impeached him. But, Mueller did say that.
O.o

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
So far, this is the strongest case for impeachment they've found.
No.

Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 29th September 2019 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 29th September 2019, 05:08 PM   #399
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
O.o



No.
Apparently Pelosi and the House disagree with you.
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Old 29th September 2019, 05:09 PM   #400
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Oh, well I missed when Trump was impeached for those things.

My mistake.
You picked one variable when there were dozens of differences in your list. You can't just pick the one variable that suits your argument (pretending the impeachment is about Biden when it is about Trump).
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