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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 28th September 2019, 09:45 PM   #321
Skeptic Ginger
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I'll take 'distraction' for $800 Alex.

...

What is, don't get me started?
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Old 28th September 2019, 09:55 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Anyone who sent an email to Hilary is now going to be charged with security violations? I believe they will do it. This is Trump. This will be the most beautiful show trial ever.
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Old 28th September 2019, 09:59 PM   #323
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Pure Theater.
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Old 28th September 2019, 10:03 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I don't know enough about typical procedures for contacting persons who have been privy to classified data when that classification changes to know if WaPo is stretching to make this into a Clinton thing more than the State Department is. I am fairly sure, however, they have no criminal liability unless they refuse to surrender or destroy any such documents they possess.

People who worked for an agency once headed by Clinton would probably have contact links with Clinton in their email histories. I think they are expecting that implication to spontaneously sprout legs and carry the story from there.

It's even vague enough that it can be read as either "lock her up" or "abuse of executive power" depending on your affiliations.
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Old 28th September 2019, 10:07 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Quote:
Quote: As many as 130 officials have been contacted in recent weeks by State Department investigators — a list that includes senior officials who reported directly to Clinton as well as others in lower-level jobs whose emails were at some point relayed to her inbox, said current and former State Department officials.
Those targeted were notified that emails they sent years ago have been retroactively classified and now constitute potential security violations, according to letters reviewed by The Washington Post.
No they don't. These people DON'T know the law or at least DON'T care about. The US Constitution is very clear on this one point.

No...ex post facto Law shall be passed.
Article One, Section Nine, Clause Three

They cannot rule retroactively. They can decide going forward that certain kinds of emails would be illegal, but they cannot revisit past emails in this way.
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Old 28th September 2019, 10:10 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I don't know enough about typical procedures for contacting persons who have been privy to classified data when that classification changes to know if WaPo is stretching to make this into a Clinton thing more than the State Department is. I am fairly sure, however, they have no criminal liability unless they refuse to surrender or destroy any such documents they possess.

People who worked for an agency once headed by Clinton would probably have contact links with Clinton in their email histories. I think they are expecting that implication to spontaneously sprout legs and carry the story from there.

It's even vague enough that it can be read as either "lock her up" or "abuse of executive power" depending on your affiliations.
What's Trump going to do if he hears that at a Democratic Rally the crowd chanting "Lock him up"?
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Old 28th September 2019, 10:11 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
No they don't. These people DON'T know the law or at least DON'T care about. The US Constitution is very clear on this one point.

No...ex post facto Law shall be passed.
Article One, Section Nine, Clause Three

They cannot rule retroactively. They can decide going forward that certain kinds of emails would be illegal, but they cannot revisit past emails in this way.
Slow down.

The line reads: "now constitute potential security violations"

It does not say: "now constitute violations of federal statutes"
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Old 28th September 2019, 10:14 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
What's Trump going to do if he hears that at a Democratic Rally the crowd chanting "Lock him up"?
Tweet about it.

Almost certainly involving the use of "sad!" or "so unfair!"
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Old 28th September 2019, 10:21 PM   #329
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I knew it all along that Hillary's emails are the REAL ISSUE!!! Lock her up and do it retroactively back in 1994!

Anyway, this is surely mainly for the base and Fox "News" - the mainstream media has been pretty gullible especially with anything concerning the Clintons, but I doubt that it would be this dumb. We sure live in interesting times.
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Old 28th September 2019, 10:26 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Slow down.

The line reads: "now constitute potential security violations"

It does not say: "now constitute violations of federal statutes"
still, it's very much asking to put the ink back in the bottle after pouring it into the ocean.
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Old 28th September 2019, 10:30 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Pure Theater.
And very bad theater at that..
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Old 28th September 2019, 10:59 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
still, it's very much asking to put the ink back in the bottle after pouring it into the ocean.
Having not ever had a security clearance or received any notification of changes to such, I don't know if receiving a communication that states there could be "potential security violations" is just a way of notifying the person of the seriousness of the issue or if that phrasing is exceptional and attempting to convey a threat.

Do you?

Did WaPo make a concerted effort to clarify that point (I honestly don't know, I've read a few second-hand articles because WaPo insists my ad blocker is on when it isn't)?

ETA: Part of this is a result of our Trumpian era, I can't tell if there's something nefarious going on or if this article is just muckraking. My suspicions arise out of the curious need to connect 130 former State Dept. folks who have or had security clearances receiving notifications about security issues as they relate to Clinton rather than as they related to being former State Dept. officials who have or had security clearances. It's a bit too "free association logic" for my taste. Of course former State Dept. officials are within 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon from Clinton, she ran the State Dept!

Which aspect of their former employment is more relevant to the matter at hand? So for your ink analogy, I can't for the life of me tell who exactly is spilling said ink.

Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 28th September 2019 at 11:07 PM.
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Old 28th September 2019, 10:59 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
No they don't. These people DON'T know the law or at least DON'T care about. The US Constitution is very clear on this one point.



No...ex post facto Law shall be passed.

Article One, Section Nine, Clause Three



They cannot rule retroactively. They can decide going forward that certain kinds of emails would be illegal, but they cannot revisit past emails in this way.
They haven't made a new law. They have applied a security classification.

I presume that means they are targetting the people who sent emails to or received them from Hillary. They will go to all these people and search all their computers and try to come up with a crime.
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Old 28th September 2019, 11:14 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
They haven't made a new law. They have applied a security classification.

I presume that means they are targetting the people who sent emails to or received them from Hillary. They will go to all these people and search all their computers and try to come up with a crime.
The set defined "people who exchanged emails with Clinton" has strong correlation with the set defined "people who used to work at the State Dept. and at some point possessed a document that has had it's classification status changed."

Like I said, both sides can make hay out of this two entirely different ways based entirely on a vague inference of causality in the presence of plausible alternatives.

The open question is "was the way they were contacted in any way out of the ordinary when classification status of documents one has or once had access to changes?"
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Old 28th September 2019, 11:16 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Having not ever had a security clearance or received any notification of changes to such, I don't know if receiving a communication that states there could be "potential security violations" is just a way of notifying the person of the seriousness of the issue or if that phrasing is exceptional and attempting to convey a threat.

Do you?

Did WaPo make a concerted effort to clarify that point (I honestly don't know, I've read a few second-hand articles because WaPo insists my ad blocker is on when it isn't)?
18 months ago, they sent a message around saying they wanted to do this - and then didn't, because clearly it isn't feasible.
It is hard to see this as anything but an effort to please Trump and influence 2020 voters.
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Old 28th September 2019, 11:29 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
18 months ago, they sent a message around saying they wanted to do this - and then didn't, because clearly it isn't feasible.
It is hard to see this as anything but an effort to please Trump and influence 2020 voters.
Unless it is entirely standard for a person who previously had access to something they no longer have access to being notified of such in order to assure they no longer possess such information in any form that could be improperly accessed.

I don't have WaPo's full story, maybe there's 3 whole paragraphs detailing the difference between how these people were contacted and the way it usually works or someone who is familiar with these matters could clarify if it seems typical or not.
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Old 28th September 2019, 11:53 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
No they don't. These people DON'T know the law or at least DON'T care about. The US Constitution is very clear on this one point.

No...ex post facto Law shall be passed.
Article One, Section Nine, Clause Three

They cannot rule retroactively. They can decide going forward that certain kinds of emails would be illegal, but they cannot revisit past emails in this way.
Sorta? As was pointed made clear after the examination of Hillary's e-mails, information can certainly be classified after there was time to discuss it. There's excellent reason to think that the Trump Administration is up to no good, because, well, it's horrendously corrupt, inept, ignores the law all the time, and constantly makes brazenly evil decisions, but that doesn't mean that classifying things that happened in a previous administration is necessarily illegal or out of bounds, though the timing certainly makes it distinctly suspicious.
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Old 29th September 2019, 01:51 AM   #338
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
He's imploding right before our eyes!
It's the Mueller investigation meltdowns in reprise #Schadenfreude .
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Old 29th September 2019, 02:47 AM   #339
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Trump Tweets

The only people that don’t like my conversation with the new Ukrainian President are those that heard Rep. Adam Schiff read a made up and totally fraudulent statement to the House and public, words that I did not say but that he fabricated (& admitted to this fabrication). Sick!

It is disgraceful what the Do Nothing Democrats are doing (the Impeachment Scam), but it is also disgraceful what they are NOT doing, namely, the USMCA vote, Prescription Drug Price Reduction, Gun Safety, Infrastructure, and much more!
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Old 29th September 2019, 02:58 AM   #340
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I am amazed at how eerily Trump is able to identify all the problems his narrative has, and attribute it to his opponents as a preemptive "no you are".
In a weird way, this requires a lot of introspection.
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:19 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I am amazed at how eerily Trump is able to identify all the problems his narrative has, and attribute it to his opponents as a preemptive "no you are".
YOU’RE the puppet!
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"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:35 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Funny that the Trump and the few goons who are left can only come up with plans that are sure to backfire.
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:37 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
He's imploding right before our eyes!
It's funny when Trump suffers. His pain will be so delicious to watch.
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Old 29th September 2019, 05:53 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
18 months ago, they sent a message around saying they wanted to do this - and then didn't, because clearly it isn't feasible.
It is hard to see this as anything but an effort to please Trump and influence 2020 voters.
Isn't this the same thing that's happening with Biden? Abusing an office to get revenge against a political opponent?

More fuel for the impeachment proceedings, perhaps.
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Old 29th September 2019, 06:23 AM   #345
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Barr will be limping to the end as AG. Nobody has control over trump.
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Old 29th September 2019, 06:33 AM   #346
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Originally Posted by carlosy View Post
Out of curiosity, what would be the right and legal way in the following situation:

Any US president suspects one of the presidential candidates to be involved in something illegal (maybe now or in the past) and goverments of another country might have serious information on this matter and could help.

What are the correct options?

a) Do nothing and wait until after the election so that the US citizen is not a presidential candidate anymore (risking that this person could then be actually the new president)?

b) Report/inform authorities: Which ones? FBI, CIA? Risking that someone in there then suspects the president/government to seek help from another country against a presidential candidate or trying to smear his campaign?

c) Possible illegal activities of US-citizens, especially presidential candidates, are not the presidents concern.

Originally Posted by carlosy View Post
And what would be the proper method to collect information from a different government? Or is this never an option?

I am not a US citizen, so just asking out of curiousity.
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
It would depend on the country involved.

We have agreements and a system with Ukraine (whose acronym slips my mind an the moment) where the State Department submits a request on behave of whatever law enforcement agency believes there is information in the other country. Ukraine reviews the request and returns what information they have, what other cooperation might be acceptable, and decides if they want to commit investigative resources to this.

At no point, besides perhaps submitting initial evidence to whatever US law enforcement agency would be appropriate for the suspected wrongdoing, is the President's personal lawyer involved. The AG isn't even supposed to be directly involved. It is standardized and bureaucratic specifically to avoid political interference because such a thing would be wrong, illegal, and damage future international relationships as well as internal trust in the legal system.

What Trump et al have done is clearly corrupt and illegal. Anyone pretending it isn't simply isn't being reasonable.
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Old 29th September 2019, 06:38 AM   #347
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Trump Tweets

Will happen to all of those seeking unlawful impeachment in 50 Trump type Districts. We will win big!


Ronna McDaniel
@GOPChairwoman
This is just the beginning of an all-out fight to defend our democracy & our president.
Dozens of House Dems campaigned on working with @realDonaldTrump, yet fell in line with Pelosi & the Squad.
Voters don't support this impeachment charade & it’s going to backfire come 2020!
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Old 29th September 2019, 07:03 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets
Ronna McDaniel
@GOPChairwoman
This is just the beginning of an all-out fight to defend our democracy & our president.
Dozens of House Dems campaigned on working with @realDonaldTrump, yet fell in line with Pelosi & the Squad.
Voters don't support this impeachment charade & it’s going to backfire come 2020!
Yep, all those millions of Ken Bones out there who don't know anything about Mr. Trump will have one thing to influence their decision to vote or not in 2020: the Democrats are mean to that nice man with the pretty daughter.
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Old 29th September 2019, 07:03 AM   #349
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I think Rudy Giuliani will be a guest on Face The Nation at 10:30A EDT.
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Old 29th September 2019, 07:05 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Will happen to all of those seeking unlawful impeachment in 50 Trump type Districts. We will win big!


Ronna McDaniel
@GOPChairwoman
This is just the beginning of an all-out fight to defend our democracy & our president.
Dozens of House Dems campaigned on working with @realDonaldTrump, yet fell in line with Pelosi & the Squad.
Voters don't support this impeachment charade & it’s going to backfire come 2020!
All his thoughts are on "winning" the next election, he can't seem to think about anything else.
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Old 29th September 2019, 07:21 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Will happen to all of those seeking unlawful impeachment in 50 Trump type Districts. We will win big!


Ronna McDaniel
@GOPChairwoman
This is just the beginning of an all-out fight to defend our democracy & our president.
Dozens of House Dems campaigned on working with @realDonaldTrump, yet fell in line with Pelosi & the Squad.
Voters don't support this impeachment charade & it’s going to backfire come 2020!
Cults are typically less forgiving of apostates than they are of non-believers.
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Old 29th September 2019, 07:22 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I think Rudy Giuliani will be a guest on Face The Nation at 10:30A EDT.
Lindsey Graham too. The potential for implosion into a black hole of BS is huge!
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Old 29th September 2019, 07:35 AM   #353
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Graham: hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay...
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Old 29th September 2019, 07:51 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Graham: hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay hearsay...
As pointed out on Opening Arguments and elsewhere, the hearsay rule exists because more reliable testimony, in general, should come from the person “heard”, rather than the person who heard it.

So Graham, Scalise et al should be careful what they wish for.
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Old 29th September 2019, 08:10 AM   #355
shemp
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Amazingly, Giuliani didn't tell her to "Shut up, moron!" As expected, he repeats the same crap and sheds no light on anything.
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Old 29th September 2019, 08:20 AM   #356
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I am amazed at how eerily Trump is able to identify all the problems his narrative has, and attribute it to his opponents as a preemptive "no you are".
In a weird way, this requires a lot of introspection.
Naw, just an "I'm rubber, you're glue, whatever you say bounces of me and sticks to you" mentality.
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Old 29th September 2019, 08:21 AM   #357
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I think Giuliani managed to control the narrative, and make the whole fiasco about Joe and Hunter Biden and confusion about Ukrainian oligarchs and prosecutors.

One thing that came out was that he says Pompeo was aware of his actions.
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Old 29th September 2019, 08:34 AM   #358
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
As pointed out on Opening Arguments and elsewhere, the hearsay rule exists because more reliable testimony, in general, should come from the person “heard”, rather than the person who heard it.

So Graham, Scalise et al should be careful what they wish for.
Exactly. The only logical inference from that argument is that we must now hear from direct sources, and the only way that will happen is with an inquiry. Republicans are playing the same game as they did with the Mueller investigation: you're not allowed to start an investigation unless you already have proof.
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Old 29th September 2019, 10:25 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Slow down.

The line reads: "now constitute potential security violations"

It does not say: "now constitute violations of federal statutes"
They also can't use it to say threaten their jobs. Whicj is the only reason i can see them doing this.
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Old 29th September 2019, 10:28 AM   #360
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
They haven't made a new law. They have applied a security classification.

I presume that means they are targetting the people who sent emails to or received them from Hillary. They will go to all these people and search all their computers and try to come up with a crime.
They are in fact making new law if they are using it in the way you are speculating.
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