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View Poll Results: Is the political nature of impeachment a problem?
Yes 15 33.33%
No 27 60.00%
Planet X 3 6.67%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 6th October 2019, 01:15 PM   #81
theprestige
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Getting him out of office is also the whole point of the impeachment process.
No. The whole point is to reach a determination, one way or the other.

The point of you starting the process is to remove him. The point is of the process is to make sure you carry your burden of proof, and make a sufficiently convincing argument. The process is just as much about keeping someone in office as it is about removing them.

But note that this isn't what Craig talking about. Craig's idea is that even if the impeachment fails. Even if it's unethical and unjustifiable, if it harms Trump's election chances, that's good enough.
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Old 6th October 2019, 02:37 PM   #82
quadraginta
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
No. The whole point is to reach a determination, one way or the other.

The point of you starting the process is to remove him. The point is of the process is to make sure you carry your burden of proof, and make a sufficiently convincing argument. The process is just as much about keeping someone in office as it is about removing them.

But note that this isn't what Craig talking about. Craig's idea is that even if the impeachment fails. Even if it's unethical and unjustifiable, if it harms Trump's election chances, that's good enough.

How about if the impeachment succeeds but there is no conviction in the Senate, solely because too many GOP Senators are completely unethical and without any concern for justice, but only for the welfare of their party, regardless of how bad it is for the country in general.
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Old 6th October 2019, 05:18 PM   #83
Beelzebuddy
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
How about if the impeachment succeeds but there is no conviction in the Senate, solely because too many GOP Senators are completely unethical and without any concern for justice, but only for the welfare of their party, regardless of how bad it is for the country in general.
That's what he meant: they're determined that Trump remain in office no matter what crimes he has and is and will continue to commit.
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Old 8th October 2019, 12:44 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Getting him out of office is also the whole point of the impeachment process.

To what degree that may be political is a separate issue. It may be no more inherently political than the impeachment process itself.
What I was saying is that it's politicizing it, if the intent is not to remove him from office, but to hamper his re-election campaign. Note that I was responding to this:

Quote:
That's fine as long as it results in Trump no getting a second term. As long as the Dems understand that the goal isn't conviction in the Senate, it's to make sure Trump is no longer president.
I had the impression that Democrats really believe that Trump has committed impeachable offenses. Is my face red!
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Old 8th October 2019, 12:53 AM   #85
The Great Zaganza
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Since Dems don't have a 2/3 majority in the Senate, the goals for the Impeachment Trial are whatever the Republicans want.
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Old 8th October 2019, 02:16 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
How about lying to Congress?

How about starting and conducting a war without Congressional or UN permission?
Authorizing the use of torture is impeachable.
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Old 10th October 2019, 09:27 AM   #87
ponderingturtle
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Authorizing the use of torture is impeachable.
Eating a ham sandwich is impeachable. It is a political process it doesn't need to be illegal like ordering torture. We have a great example now with the Kurds of legal actions that fit into situations that can count as impeachable for good reasons.

Another one that would fit nicely was refusing to perform the executives duty with the murder of Jamal Khashoggi.
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Old 10th October 2019, 09:36 AM   #88
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I don't think it is a problem, it is a feature. Impeachment is a political process to deal with political problems.

Impeachment is limited to removal from office and disqualification from holding future offices, there can be no further sanctions handed out by the legislative branch. The legislative branch is not granted the power to imprison or fine the President, therefore it is not a criminal proceeding. It was never intended to be.

I think it is good that we have a political process for dealing with political problems. It shows one of the strengths of our constitution.
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Old 10th October 2019, 09:56 AM   #89
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If Republicans think Impeachment is inadequate to the problem, they can invoke the 25th instead.
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