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22nd December 2015, 10:19 PM | #2201 |
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23rd December 2015, 01:36 AM | #2202 |
Illuminator
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You can't defeat fascism through debate because it's not simply an idea, proposal or theory. It's a fundamentally flawed way of looking at the world. It's a distorting prism, emotionally charged and completely logic-proof. You may as well challenge rabies to a game of Boggle. @ViolettaCrisis |
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23rd December 2015, 05:07 AM | #2203 |
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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23rd December 2015, 05:12 AM | #2204 |
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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23rd December 2015, 06:09 AM | #2205 |
Graduate Poster
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I just don't understand. Why the futile effort to keep this losing case alive?
Choose a different relic, or 'miracle' or 'open your heart to Jesus and let him speak to you' or whatever else, build a faith on that, and get on with it. |
23rd December 2015, 08:04 AM | #2206 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"Sufficiently advanced malice is indistinguishable from incompetence. = godless Dave |
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23rd December 2015, 08:40 AM | #2207 |
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23rd December 2015, 05:54 PM | #2208 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"Sufficiently advanced malice is indistinguishable from incompetence. = godless Dave |
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24th December 2015, 06:26 AM | #2209 |
Apathetic Agnostic
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I volunteer to be the test subject!
God would convert me at the same time. A two-for-one,and all it takes is one teensy little miracle. Pretty small potatoes, really, compared to the stunts he used to pull - stopping the sun & moon in the sky, pillars of fire, toppling city walls. |
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"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the same extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart." - H. L. Mencken "Why believe in things that make it tough on you?" - Devo, "Love Without Anger" |
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24th December 2015, 10:31 AM | #2210 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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24th December 2015, 10:35 AM | #2211 |
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25th December 2015, 04:53 AM | #2212 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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25th December 2015, 10:43 AM | #2213 |
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Excuses
- I'm busy. I'll be back.
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"The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts while the stupid ones are full of confidence." Charles Bukowski "Most good ideas don't work." Jabba "Se due argomenti sembrano altrettanto convincenti, il meno sarcastico è probabilmente corretto." Jabba's Razor |
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25th December 2015, 10:48 AM | #2214 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"Sufficiently advanced malice is indistinguishable from incompetence. = godless Dave |
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25th December 2015, 11:20 AM | #2215 |
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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26th December 2015, 07:52 AM | #2216 |
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26th December 2015, 08:57 AM | #2217 |
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The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French) |
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26th December 2015, 11:44 AM | #2218 |
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26th December 2015, 12:09 PM | #2219 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I come back to this waste of a life called The Shroud Threads to see how it will all end.
I am sure there will never be any worthwhile evidence, nor any logical arguments supporting Jabba's position that the CIQ is authentic, even if these threads continue another 4 years. Happy Boxing Day to you all! |
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"Sufficiently advanced malice is indistinguishable from incompetence. = godless Dave |
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26th December 2015, 12:26 PM | #2220 |
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28th December 2015, 09:00 AM | #2221 |
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Segway
- Anyway,
- I probably shouldn't use the word "probably" anymore when referring to my opinion about the shroud. Dan Porter's opinion was a big part of mine, and his recent announcement took me by surprise. - At this point, I don't think that I can honestly apply "probably" -- but, I do still give the shroud a 50/50 chance of being authentic... - Obviously, I still want it to be authentic. Whatever, I still want to know the truth about it. And also, I still think that we humans need to develop an effective method of public debate -- that I have at least the beginnings of such a method -- and, that the shroud controversy makes for a perfect subject for analyzing the ins and outs of debate. - And, as you already know, I believe that my method hasn't worked so far because you guys won't let me apply it fully. But then, I also think that I may be learning how to skirt your obstacles... We'll see. |
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"The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts while the stupid ones are full of confidence." Charles Bukowski "Most good ideas don't work." Jabba "Se due argomenti sembrano altrettanto convincenti, il meno sarcastico è probabilmente corretto." Jabba's Razor |
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28th December 2015, 09:04 AM | #2222 | ||
Illuminator
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...snip...
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__________________
You can't defeat fascism through debate because it's not simply an idea, proposal or theory. It's a fundamentally flawed way of looking at the world. It's a distorting prism, emotionally charged and completely logic-proof. You may as well challenge rabies to a game of Boggle. @ViolettaCrisis |
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28th December 2015, 09:06 AM | #2223 |
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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28th December 2015, 09:11 AM | #2224 |
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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28th December 2015, 09:17 AM | #2225 |
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My Dear Mr. Savage:
I hope you and yours had a delightful Advent Season, and are enjoying Christmas. I am seriously snowed in here on the Manzano Range in High Desert New Mexico, but have plenty of supplies and a week off, so all is well. What evidence have you to offer that the "truth" about the CIQ is that it is ~2000 years old? Keep in mind that that is only the first hurdle, but it is a big one. If the CIQ is not, in fact, ~2000 years old, none of the other objections matter--it cannot be a piece of cloth that was used to wrap anyone in the 1st Century C.E. if it does not, itself date from the 1st Century C.E. Also keep in mind that even if the CIQ could be demonstrated to be ~2000 years old (which is not the same as casting aspersions on the 14C dating) you need to provide positive evidence of an age of ~2000 years); you would still have to overcome the historical record, the anatomical absurdities, the postural impossibilities, the "anti-gravity "hair" and "blood", the scriptural contradictions, and the fact that the byzantine-styled representational image is rendered (without distortion) on the sized and gessoed surface of a piece (not "strips") of linen. In the spirit of your holy days, I beseech you to abandon your hope of "...some patching..." and provide positive evidence of a 1st Century C.E. date. I hope your season brings you your own Epihany. Through it all, I remain, Patiently yours, &ct. |
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"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
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28th December 2015, 09:33 AM | #2226 |
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Discussion Format
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"The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts while the stupid ones are full of confidence." Charles Bukowski "Most good ideas don't work." Jabba "Se due argomenti sembrano altrettanto convincenti, il meno sarcastico è probabilmente corretto." Jabba's Razor |
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28th December 2015, 09:50 AM | #2227 |
Penultimate Amazing
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How abour, your claim that there is any evidence that the shroud is the burial cloth of Jesus (much less that the preponderance of evidence is si, or that it is even 50/50).
So perhaps you could start by providing that evidence? Again, not stuff that could maybe lighten the pan of the non-burial cloth side, but actual evidence that it is Jesus's burial cloth, meaning it is at least 2000 years old. |
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Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
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28th December 2015, 09:51 AM | #2228 |
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28th December 2015, 09:54 AM | #2229 |
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"If it's real, then it gets more interesting the closer you examine it. If it's not real, just the opposite is true." - aggle-rithm |
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28th December 2015, 10:00 AM | #2230 |
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"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
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28th December 2015, 10:07 AM | #2231 |
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If bands were cars, Band Maid would be a pink Nissan GT-R with a Hello Kitty graphic wrap. |
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28th December 2015, 10:21 AM | #2232 |
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Have you tried reading people's responses in this thread, many of which explain what they don't agree with? In case you can't manage that, how about: Your claim that there is evidence that the shroud is authentic. Your claim that evidence that casts doubt on the carbon dating, should you actually produce any, would be evidence of authenticity. Your claim that the "preponderance of evidence" shows that the shroud is authentic. Your claim that, in the face of clear evidence that it is impossible that the shroud is authentic, the idea of the "preponderance of evidence" is even relevant. |
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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28th December 2015, 10:30 AM | #2233 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"Sufficiently advanced malice is indistinguishable from incompetence. = godless Dave |
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28th December 2015, 10:59 AM | #2234 |
Penultimate Amazing
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28th December 2015, 11:01 AM | #2235 |
Penultimate Amazing
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28th December 2015, 11:15 AM | #2236 |
Illuminator
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You can't defeat fascism through debate because it's not simply an idea, proposal or theory. It's a fundamentally flawed way of looking at the world. It's a distorting prism, emotionally charged and completely logic-proof. You may as well challenge rabies to a game of Boggle. @ViolettaCrisis |
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28th December 2015, 11:36 AM | #2237 |
Penultimate Amazing
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28th December 2015, 12:04 PM | #2238 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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28th December 2015, 01:53 PM | #2239 |
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Oh dear.
You still seem to be operating under the delusion that debate is the correct method to use, and that your variant of debating is the best way to go about it. Once again: debate is a method that uses rhetoric to sway an opinion, not a method for weighing evidence to arrive at a conclusion. Moreover, the use of the word "controversy" is somewhat amusing in the context of this thread. A cynic might conclude that the purpose of your bluff and bluster is to create the appearance of controversy when none exists, so that you can point at it and proclaim the issue unresolved. Such a tactic is well within the behavioral parameters you've already demonstrated in this thread. |
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What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it.... |
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28th December 2015, 02:05 PM | #2240 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Jabba, please present you evidence that makes you think there is a 50/50 chance the CUQ covered the body of the person you think of as Jesus. What is it that makes you think this?
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