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Old 17th November 2016, 05:25 AM   #721
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Being Hillary Clinton.
Thanks for the translation.
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Old 17th November 2016, 05:28 AM   #722
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
And no lessons were learned
Well, it would help if you expanded on that instead of posting sentences so short and pointless that they even lack a period.
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Old 17th November 2016, 06:14 AM   #723
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
No, just salivated on cue after 25 years of bell ringing by their Republican masters.
Freaking elitist.
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Old 17th November 2016, 06:19 AM   #724
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Freaking elitist.
Yeah, Regnad, now you've just ensured that millions more will vote Republican in the next elections.
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Old 17th November 2016, 06:34 AM   #725
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Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba View Post
Here is what I see - Trump is appeasing Democrats and moderates and others who are unsure about his viability with his talk about the ACA, telling people to tone things down, etc.

At the same time, he is choosing his most radical surrogates and supporters as his satraps to appeal to the white supremacy vote.

What will he do? Who knows?
True, but we do have a lot of evidence to show that he will say pretty much anything he wants to, truth doesn't come into it. IMO it's actions that count and his recent actions point towards right wing extremism rather than a pivot to the centre.
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Old 17th November 2016, 08:23 AM   #726
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Really? With Pence and Cruz and these others in charge? You don't think that they'll do everything in their power to make it more difficult for gay couples to marry or for trans people to get equal protection or for women to buy contraception or get abortions, etc.?
They don't have much power to do any of that. They aren't going to ban contraception. They don't have the power to reverse the Supreme Court ruling on gay marriage. Abortion isn't as cut and dry a case being a philosophically based kind of thing. It really comes down to a matter of opinion if restricting abortion is good or bad. Do you view it as murder or a woman's right issue? It's hard to argue that either side is "wrong." In any case, I don't think abortion policy is going to be a big issue in his Presidency.

Originally Posted by fishbob View Post
He could use his presidency to incentivize further bigotry. He has certainly demonstrated that as a candidate. Not the passage, but the enforcement of policies and legislation is where bigotry is usually felt.
I would need examples because this is pretty vague.

Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
The highlighted is ridiculous. Furthermore, the regime can affect the political and cultural tone, possibly for a long time.
We just had two terms of the first African-American President. Are we any closer to solving racial tensions? No. These things are societal issues that can't be solved by politics and a President -Obama was the proof of that. Things are getting better over time as the Zeitgeist changes. It doesn't matter who is President. No one wants a return to the racism of the past -well maybe the KKK does but who gives a **** about them? I think that accusations of racism against Trump are unfounded.

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Depending on how you define bigotry, pretty high IMO:
  • His closest advisors are pressing ahead with plans for a Muslim Register
  • The GOP has a long history of enacting voter suppression legislation
  • There are very clear noises coming from the GOP regarding allowing discrimination on religious grounds at a state level
  • Defunding Planned Parenthood is a direct attack on those that use its services

Regarding the other stuff like economic reform, new trade deals and the like, its all pie in the sky apart from cutting taxes (and hence increasing the deficit).
The "Muslim Register" has already been used from 2002-2011. There was very little outrage back then. I don't see any problem with keeping an eye on visitors from countries where terrorist groups are active.

If by voter suppression you mean stuff like Voter ID, I disagree with you. It's just a basic layer of security we use for everything from buying alcohol to driving a car to flying on an airplane. Why should voting be any different?

What do you mean by religious discrimination on a State level? Do you have something specific to look at?

Defunding Planned Parenthood could also be viewed as an attack on the people who murder helpless babies. It isn't so clear cut that it's strictly a woman's right issue. If you support their women's health initiatives and contraception program, you are free to fund them through private donations as I do. Why does the government have to solve all our problems?
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Old 17th November 2016, 08:44 AM   #727
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
What do you mean by religious discrimination on a State level? Do you have something specific to look at?
Here ya go.
Quote:
Georgia lawmaker introduces bill that would amend law that bans KKK hoods to include Muslim burqas
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Old 17th November 2016, 08:52 AM   #728
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
True, but we do have a lot of evidence to show that he will say pretty much anything he wants to, truth doesn't come into it. IMO it's actions that count and his recent actions point towards right wing extremism rather than a pivot to the centre.
Yes, I agree. It's just a thin foil of nice-guy-acting.
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Old 17th November 2016, 09:11 AM   #729
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And of course they see all muslims as terrorists but that is to be expected, it isn't like they have anything to fear from the Dylan Roofs of this country. And hell many of them support the Bundys so they clearly can not be terrorists even if they do bag themselves for feds.


Which is why they don't care what happens to them with Pence in the white house.


Until it requires them to do something or confront their own biases.


It is like how feminists tried to make a big deal over trump using the P word calling that rape culture and sexual assault. That causes them to stop listening and give up.
I'm sure you've been told this quite a bit by now, but it had nothing to do with the P word, and everything to do with what Trump actually said. Let's spell this out. Grabbing someone's genitals without their consent is, completely literally, sexual assault. Trump said he likes to grab women's genitals without their consent. Thus, he said he likes sexually assault women. "Naughty words" have absolutely nothing to do with this.
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Old 17th November 2016, 09:16 AM   #730
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
They don't have much power to do any of that.
The president, house, senate and supreme court don't have that kind of power together?

Quote:
They aren't going to ban contraception.
You're forgetting that they don't need to: they can just make it very difficult to get it for affordable prices.

Quote:
They don't have the power to reverse the Supreme Court ruling on gay marriage.
Can't the Supreme Court reverse its own decisions?

Quote:
Do you view it as murder or a woman's right issue? It's hard to argue that either side is "wrong."
Yes, both sides have points on this issue. I happen to side with the pro-choice side, but not strongly.
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Old 17th November 2016, 09:29 AM   #731
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
If by voter suppression you mean stuff like Voter ID, I disagree with you. It's just a basic layer of security we use for everything from buying alcohol to driving a car to flying on an airplane. Why should voting be any different?
None of those things you mention is a constitutional right so perhaps it is different. There have been a number of steps that the GOP has taken to disenfranchise minority voters, voter ID is one, "overenthusiastic" purging of electoral roles is another as is restricting access to polling stations in minority neighbourhoods.

Specifically w.r.t. Voter I.D. legislation, its stated objective is to solve a problem - in person voter fraud - which hasn't been demonstrated to exist but it does have the convenient side-effect of driving down participation in minority areas. Colour me shocked to find that the GOP are enthusiastic supporters of it.

I'm taking this off-topic now, apologies, perhaps the voter ID thread is a better place for this discussion.
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Old 17th November 2016, 09:57 AM   #732
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Just like when you hang out with your friend who you know is a bit handsy with women it doesn't mean you condone sexual assault.
This is correct. Especially when you are hanging out in venues without opportunity for sexual assault. But even if you are, it's a chance to make your stance known, to school your friend in what constitutes acceptable behavior and what does not.

Even Christians are able to separate the sin from the sinner. Which is surprising when I'd expect the "holier than thou" mistake from them more than a forum frequented by atheists. But the Christians accept human failings and tell us that he who is without sin may cast the first stone. As hypocritical as the typical Christian might be, they have some decent moral teachings in the mix.

I see hypocrisy in a social justice culture that calls for prison reform, restoration of civil rights and employment opportunities for felons, while simultaneously attempting the moral high ground and virtue signaling when it comes to the duly elected president. How does one know who to forgive? Is it based solely on bank balance? On whether someone is conservative or liberal? Race? The waters are difficult to navigate.

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Old 17th November 2016, 10:06 AM   #733
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Originally Posted by Cat Not Included View Post
I'm sure you've been told this quite a bit by now, but it had nothing to do with the P word, and everything to do with what Trump actually said. Let's spell this out. Grabbing someone's genitals without their consent is, completely literally, sexual assault. Trump said he likes to grab women's genitals without their consent. Thus, he said he likes sexually assault women. "Naughty words" have absolutely nothing to do with this.
You know what we call that? We call it an anecdote or a "cool story, bro." If there is a sexual assault it should be prosecuted. Otherwise, we are left with his follow up statement. Something to the effect of, "no one respects women more than I do."

Which "cool story, bro" should we accept, or, being good skeptics, neither?
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Old 17th November 2016, 10:16 AM   #734
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
You know what we call that? We call it an anecdote or a "cool story, bro." If there is a sexual assault it should be prosecuted. Otherwise, we are left with his follow up statement. Something to the effect of, "no one respects women more than I do."

Which "cool story, bro" should we accept, or, being good skeptics, neither?
They're not prosecuted because women are too scared to come forward due to asinine, tone deaf statements like yours.

It's systemic. If nobody cares, how does reporting it accomplish anything?

You know he's a sexual predator. He's ADMITTED he's a sexual predator, yet we allow him to rule the white house now. That's why these don't get reported. Not enough people give a ****.
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Old 17th November 2016, 10:23 AM   #735
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
80%. the rest just want to watch the world burn.


More people voted for Trump because Hillary underestimated how many of them agreed with his ideas? Or did they vote for him to punish her for daring to call them out? Either way it's pretty ****** up.
I think this is way too simplistic.

People had legitimate reasons for voting for Trump. Think about this.

What did Hillary want to do differently than it is today? Think of some sort of campaign promise she made. Got one in mind? I think it was reducing student loan costs and college debt. In other words, she wanted to take taxpayer money, your money, and give it to people with college degrees.


Hmmm.....she didn't do so well with people who don't have college degrees, did she? Do you think it's because they are racist?
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Old 17th November 2016, 10:28 AM   #736
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Originally Posted by Cat Not Included View Post
I'm sure you've been told this quite a bit by now, but it had nothing to do with the P word, and everything to do with what Trump actually said. Let's spell this out. Grabbing someone's genitals without their consent is, completely literally, sexual assault. Trump said he likes to grab women's genitals without their consent. Thus, he said he likes sexually assault women. "Naughty words" have absolutely nothing to do with this.
Which is exactly my point. It is that calling it sexual assault or rape culture is like calling people who vote for trump as having racism not be a deal breaker. It shuts down their thinking telling them the truth.
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Old 17th November 2016, 10:31 AM   #737
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I think this is way too simplistic.

People had legitimate reasons for voting for Trump. Think about this.

What did Hillary want to do differently than it is today? Think of some sort of campaign promise she made. Got one in mind? I think it was reducing student loan costs and college debt. In other words, she wanted to take taxpayer money, your money, and give it to people with college degrees.


Hmmm.....she didn't do so well with people who don't have college degrees, did she? Do you think it's because they are racist?
Of course it is a fraction of the support that colleges used to get from the government in the good old days. But we need to keep facts and knowledge of history out of this as it has no relevance.
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Old 17th November 2016, 10:35 AM   #738
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
They're not prosecuted because women are too scared to come forward due to asinine, tone deaf statements like yours.
I don't accept this. I am not resistant to women coming forward. In fact, I encourage them to do so. However, I cannot in good conscience imbue an anecdote with a truth value based only on someone's telling it well. To do this would destroy the very foundation of our criminal justice system.

An argument that relies on there being a lack of evidence (not reporting) as evidence (it happened) is absurd.

Quote:
It's systemic. If nobody cares, how does reporting it accomplish anything?
I also dispute this characterization. Plainly, people do care. Sexual assault is prosecuted every day in this country. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you mean something closer to: "People do not care enough," which is a matter of opinion, and I actually don't have an estimate for what constitutes "enough" in this context.

Quote:
You know he's a sexual predator. He's ADMITTED he's a sexual predator, yet we allow him to rule the white house now. That's why these don't get reported. Not enough people give a ****.
Really? This stretches the meaning of "sexual predator" beyond reasonable bounds. Let's look at the charge again: Trump said he grabbed women by the pussy. That's not even close to grounds to charge him. Except here, in the court of public opinion, where charges are laid, prosecuted and determined by team affiliation, and there are no seats in the stadium for moderates, maturity or critical thinking. If I don't have the proper "feelz" then by God, I'm tainted too.

As an aside, I suggest you look at Megyn Kelly's discussion of her interactions with Roger Ailes for the opposite take - a strong woman dealing with workplace sexual harassment. This runs counter to the picture you paint of trembling, frail women who cannot respond unless given unbridled, enthusiastic community support.

ETA: I think this (from the first quote) reveals something important:
Quote:
...women are too scared to come forward due to asinine, tone deaf statements like yours.
It is precisely the "tone deaf" bit which shows the matter isn't meant to be reasoned out but only an emotional hotbutton. You are correct that I am "tone deaf" in this - but I think it's a strength, not a weakness. Objectivity should matter and "tone" set aside in favor of dispassionate evaluation.

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Old 17th November 2016, 10:44 AM   #739
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
I don't accept this. I am not resistant to women coming forward. In fact, I encourage them to do so. However, I cannot in good conscience imbue an anecdote with a truth value based only on someone's telling it well. To do this would destroy the very foundation of our criminal justice system.

An argument that relies on there being a lack of evidence (not reporting) as evidence (it happened) is absurd.
I wonder how many of the women in your life do you have no idea at the number of times they had guys do this to them, and that they never brought charges.

I am sure if you actually found out it should change your perspective.
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Old 17th November 2016, 10:46 AM   #740
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Deleted and retracted. Turtle's post is tengentially related to Trump.
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Old 17th November 2016, 10:48 AM   #741
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
I don't accept this. I am not resistant to women coming forward. In fact, I encourage them to do so. However, I cannot in good conscience imbue an anecdote with a truth value based only on someone's telling it well. To do this would destroy the very foundation of our criminal justice system.

An argument that relies on there being a lack of evidence (not reporting) as evidence (it happened) is absurd.



I also dispute this characterization. Plainly, people do care. Sexual assault is prosecuted every day in this country. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you mean something closer to: "People do not care enough," which is a matter of opinion, and I actually don't have an estimate for what constitutes "enough" in this context.



Really? This stretches the meaning of "sexual predator" beyond reasonable bounds. Let's look at the charge again: Trump said he grabbed women by the pussy. That's not even close to grounds to charge him. Except here, in the court of public opinion, where charges are laid, prosecuted and determined by team affiliation, and there are no seats in the stadium for moderates, maturity or critical thinking. If I don't have the proper "feelz" then by God, I'm tainted too.

As an aside, I suggest you look at Megyn Kelly's discussion of her interactions with Roger Ailes for the opposite take - a strong woman dealing with workplace sexual harassment. This runs counter to the picture you paint of trembling, frail women who cannot respond unless given unbridled, enthusiastic community support.

ETA: I think this (from the first quote) reveals something important:


It is precisely the "tone deaf" bit which shows the matter isn't meant to be reasoned out but only an emotional hotbutton. You are correct that I am "tone deaf" in this - but I think it's a strength, not a weakness. Objectivity should matter and "tone" set aside in favor of dispassionate evaluation.
You do know that something like 17 women have come forward to corroborate Trump's claim that he commits sexual assault, right?
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Old 17th November 2016, 10:50 AM   #742
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
You do know that something like 17 women have come forward to corroborate Trump's claim that he commits sexual assault, right?
And before the claim was even known, IIRC.
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Old 17th November 2016, 10:53 AM   #743
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
I don't accept this. I am not resistant to women coming forward. In fact, I encourage them to do so. However, I cannot in good conscience imbue an anecdote with a truth value based only on someone's telling it well. To do this would destroy the very foundation of our criminal justice system.

An argument that relies on there being a lack of evidence (not reporting) as evidence (it happened) is absurd.



I also dispute this characterization. Plainly, people do care. Sexual assault is prosecuted every day in this country. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you mean something closer to: "People do not care enough," which is a matter of opinion, and I actually don't have an estimate for what constitutes "enough" in this context.



Really? This stretches the meaning of "sexual predator" beyond reasonable bounds. Let's look at the charge again: Trump said he grabbed women by the pussy. That's not even close to grounds to charge him. Except here, in the court of public opinion, where charges are laid, prosecuted and determined by team affiliation, and there are no seats in the stadium for moderates, maturity or critical thinking. If I don't have the proper "feelz" then by God, I'm tainted too.

As an aside, I suggest you look at Megyn Kelly's discussion of her interactions with Roger Ailes for the opposite take - a strong woman dealing with workplace sexual harassment. This runs counter to the picture you paint of trembling, frail women who cannot respond unless given unbridled, enthusiastic community support.

ETA: I think this (from the first quote) reveals something important:


It is precisely the "tone deaf" bit which shows the matter isn't meant to be reasoned out but only an emotional hotbutton. You are correct that I am "tone deaf" in this - but I think it's a strength, not a weakness. Objectivity should matter and "tone" set aside in favor of dispassionate evaluation.
Howard Stern: "So you're a sexual predator"
Donald Trump: "Uh.. Yea"

period. end of story.


Quote:
As an aside, I suggest you look at Megyn Kelly's discussion of her interactions with Roger Ailes for the opposite take - a strong woman dealing with workplace sexual harassment. This runs counter to the picture you paint of trembling, frail women who cannot respond unless given unbridled, enthusiastic community support.
Watch as the professor tells us not to use anecdotes by using an anecdote.

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Old 17th November 2016, 10:55 AM   #744
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
I wonder how many of the women in your life do you have no idea at the number of times they had guys do this to them, and that they never brought charges.

I am sure if you actually found out it should change your perspective.
That's the issue with Trump, what standard are we going to hold him to? If, under your standard, sexual assault is very common, then how does he stand out from the crowd? Statistically, I'd be dealing with dozens of "sexual predators" in my daily routine. Their proclivities would be invisible to me - are invisible to me - and functionally (since I'm not female) it makes no difference. The car mechanic fixes my car, the cashier rings up my groceries. Every single one of them could be a sexual predator under a tight enough standard. Eventually it gets down to thought crime level and borders on the weird idea (also from the Christians) of "having lusted in your heart." Somehow we need to not only sort this out but communicate it to half the population who are biologically driven to mate with the other half.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to push for an improved social standard for the relationship between the sexes. We absolutely do not want anyone to mistake their behavior as proper when it is not. But this type of social consciousness raising is broad and doesn't help us much when trying to evaluate one person's behavior sans direct evidence. And worse, I think the ease with which we accuse people deadens the real importance of the issue and strips away the ability to see it clearly.

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Old 17th November 2016, 10:58 AM   #745
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
I think it is perfectly reasonable to push for an improved social standard for the relationship between the sexes. We absolutely do not want anyone to mistake their behavior as proper when it is not. But this type of social consciousness raising is broad and doesn't help us much when trying to evaluate one person's behavior sans direct evidence. And worse, I think the ease with which we accuse people deadens the real importance of the issue and strips away the ability to see it clearly.
To add: because "listen and believe" doesn't help any more than victim-blaming does.
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Old 17th November 2016, 11:00 AM   #746
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
That's the issue with Trump, what standard are we going to hold him to? If, under your standard, sexual assault is very common, then how does he stand out from the crowd? Statistically, I'd be dealing with dozens of "sexual predators" in my daily routine. Their proclivities would be invisible to me - are invisible to me - and functionally (since I'm not female) it makes no difference. The car mechanic fixes my car, the cashier rings up my groceries. Every single one of them could be a sexual predator under a tight enough standard. Eventually it gets down to thought crime level and borders on the weird idea (also from the Christians) of "having lusted in your heart." Somehow we need to not only sort this out but communicate it to half the population who are biologically driven to mate with the other half.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to push for an improved social standard for the relationship between the sexes. We absolutely do not want anyone to mistake their behavior as proper when it is not. But this type of social consciousness raising is broad and doesn't help us much when trying to evaluate one person's behavior sans direct evidence. And worse, I think the ease with which we accuse people deadens the real importance of the issue and strips away the ability to see it clearly.
Are you for real???

The PRESIDENT of the USA needs to be held to a higher standard than a mechanic or cashier for chrissake.

Holy **** man. Wow.
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Old 17th November 2016, 11:01 AM   #747
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Watch as the professor tells us not to use anecdotes by using an anecdote.
And here class, we can see the difference between anecdote offered as probative and anecdote offered as illustrative.

This distinction will be on the quiz.
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Old 17th November 2016, 11:03 AM   #748
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Are you for real???

The PRESIDENT of the USA needs to be held to a higher standard than a mechanic or cashier for chrissake.
Not anymore.
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Old 17th November 2016, 11:05 AM   #749
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Are you for real???

The PRESIDENT of the USA needs to be held to a higher standard than a mechanic or cashier for chrissake.

Holy **** man. Wow.
Why?
I certainly didn't accept that argument when Mr. Clinton was having fun in the Oval Office. I easily put it down to human foible, unrelated to the job. Why does it matter to me now? Is it because I supported Clinton but not Trump?

I think that must be it. Sexual mores are good for judging character and character in public officials matters. Which is a crap argument when they won't elect atheists and it's a crap argument now.

ETA: This is going to continue for at least four years. It's Donald Trump's Benghazi.

Last edited by marplots; 17th November 2016 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 17th November 2016, 11:07 AM   #750
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Why?
I certainly didn't accept that argument when Mr. Clinton was having fun in the Oval Office. I easily put it down to human foible, unrelated to the job. Why does it matter to me now? Is it because I supported Clinton but not Trump?

I think that must be it. Sexual mores are good for judging character and character in public officials matters. Which is a crap argument when they won't elect atheists and it's a crap argument now.
Sexual assault has nothing to do with sexual mores.

Clinton was screwing a willing intern. No proof he went around grabbing pussy because he could.
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Old 17th November 2016, 11:07 AM   #751
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Why?
I certainly didn't accept that argument when Mr. Clinton was having fun in the Oval Office. I easily put it down to human foible, unrelated to the job. Why does it matter to me now? Is it because I supported Clinton but not Trump?

I think that must be it. Sexual mores are good for judging character and character in public officials matters. Which is a crap argument when they won't elect atheists and it's a crap argument now.

ETA: This is going to continue for at least four years. It's Donald Trump's Benghazi.
It's adorable that you think his being a sexual predator is the only thing wrong with him.
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Old 17th November 2016, 11:09 AM   #752
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Howard Stern: "So you're a sexual predator"
Donald Trump: "Uh.. Yea"

period. end of story.
If anyone missed it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFg8tpafYXA

He actually seemed to say, "It's true."

Last edited by Fast Eddie B; 17th November 2016 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 17th November 2016, 11:09 AM   #753
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Sexual assault has nothing to do with sexual mores.
To be entirely pedantic, mores affect legislation. If the culture is that a man can't rape his wife, for instance, forcing yourself on your wife won't be considered rape. Idem for sexual assault.
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Old 17th November 2016, 11:09 AM   #754
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Sexual assault has nothing to do with sexual mores.

Clinton was screwing a willing intern. No proof he went around grabbing pussy because he could.
^^

There's that.
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Old 17th November 2016, 11:11 AM   #755
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Sexual assault has nothing to do with sexual mores.

Clinton was screwing a willing intern. No proof he went around grabbing pussy because he could.
Sexual assault is a charge that needs to be proven. The moral taint doesn't. That's the difference and is a confusion of language. Sexual assault is a crime, plain and simple. And it is a crime that requires the state of mind of the victim to be expressed, since the same action can be criminal or not, depending on how it is perceived.

The arguments being made here are based on moral judgements, not criminal convictions.
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Old 17th November 2016, 11:15 AM   #756
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
It's adorable that you think his being a sexual predator is the only thing wrong with him.
It's the easiest target. At least until he screws something else up more significant. The Trump U stuff is probably good for a conviction if they press it, but nefarious business practices don't have the same cachet. They don't meet the "scandalous" level of taint.
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Old 17th November 2016, 11:24 AM   #757
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Sexual assault is a charge that needs to be proven. The moral taint doesn't. That's the difference and is a confusion of language. Sexual assault is a crime, plain and simple. And it is a crime that requires the state of mind of the victim to be expressed, since the same action can be criminal or not, depending on how it is perceived.

The arguments being made here are based on moral judgements confessions from the guy, not criminal convictions.
FTFY.

Little better context for ya.
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Old 17th November 2016, 11:27 AM   #758
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
FTFY.

Little better context for ya.
Thanks.

Now that we have a confession, all we have to do is prove it really happened.

Did I mention I was the King of Bulgaria?
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Old 17th November 2016, 11:35 AM   #759
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On a separate occasion a woman came out and said Trump did that to her.
Several years later a video comes out with him bragging about it.

HE gets the benefit of the doubt.

On a separate occasion, it's said that he invaded the locker room with underage girls who were either partially or fully naked.
Several years later he brags about doing it.

Nah, this isn't a pattern at all! It's heresay!
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Old 17th November 2016, 11:48 AM   #760
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Just out of curiosity, is the "invading the locker room with underaged girls" also sexual assault? Or is that one on the other side of the line - the "creepy" or "improper" behavior side?

I just want to keep things sorted. Plus, I'm genuinely interested in how people classify things as sexual assault or not.
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