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Old 9th February 2020, 02:05 PM   #1121
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
Repeats his "DUSTY PLASMA EFFECTS INCOMETS: EXPECTATIONS FOR ROSETTA D.A. Mendis1 and M. Horányi2" insanity.

Sol88's demented dogma that comets are rock when there is no evidence that comets are rock and even Sol88 admits that comets have ices (except when we get insane lies about "ices" in quotes!).

The mainstream ices and dust model has included "electrostatic levitation and blow-off of dust from the charged cometary nucleus" since the 1960s. Thus "EXPECTATIONS FOR ROSETTA" !

As he has been told many times over the years and repeatedly spews lies about: During low activity comets do not have coma to shield their surface from the solar wind. Textbook physics states that the surface will become charged. Textbook physics states dust on the surface will become electrostatically charged. Textbook physics states this dust will be levitated. This stops when a comet forms a coma !

Sol88's usual insanity about science addressed before.
Sol88's insanity starts with not citing the paper: Is near-surface ice the driver of dust activity on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko by Skorov, et. al.
This paper has been discussed many times. This is an application of textbook physics that Sol88 denies. The paper is probably wrong. If I recall correctly, even Skorov has doubts about it?
Sol8's main insanity is that the paper states no dust is lifted when the results are in the abstract he lies about by quote mining: "the gas drag is not sufficient to remove dust grains of sizes <1 mm". If the paper is correct that small grans are held by cohesion on the surface and other mechanism(s) have to produce any observed grains < <1 mm.

Sol88's next insane lie

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Old 9th February 2020, 07:01 PM   #1122
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Another paper involving Sol's favourite, Jan Deca, which seems to have passed him by;

A Fully Kinetic Perspective of Electron Acceleration around a Weakly Outgassing Comet
Divin, A. et al.
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/1...13/ab6662/meta

Part of the abstract;



WoW!

Quote:
A complementary mechanism discussed by Madanian et al.(2016)proposes that an ambipolar electric established by the electron pressure gradient close to the nucleus provides sufficient non-turbulent acceleration to explain the observed electron velocity distributions. The latter was confirmed by Deca et al.(2017)using 3D fully kinetic particle-in-cell simulations, showing as well that the suprathermal population is primarily of solar wind origin.

My bold

tusenfem? This is a DOUBLE LAYER!!!


Now very quickly, what would happen to this negatively charged dust that is also under the influence of this ambipolar electric field?




All this dust from a mostly rocky nucleus...
Quote:
he physical consequences include electrostatic levitation and blow-off of dust from the charged cometary nucleus and electrostatic disruption and erosion of charge dust in the cometary plasma environment. The dynamical consequence arises from the new electrodynamic forces that charged dust grains experience in the magnetized plasma environment of the comet.
Repeats his "DUSTY PLASMA EFFECTS INCOMETS: EXPECTATIONS FOR ROSETTA D.A. Mendis1 and M. Horányi2" insanity.

No mention in Deca's paper about the nucleus being charged!

Also, now do try and keep up jd116,
Quote:
The high dust mass production rate is incompatible with the free sublimation of crystalline water ice under solar illumination as the only acceleration process. Additional energy stored near the surface must have increased the gas density.
Evidence of sub-surface energy storage in comet 67P from the outburst of 2016 July 3 Now if the nucleus is charged and surrounded by a double layer...
Quote:
The electric comet!
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Old 9th February 2020, 08:41 PM   #1123
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
Sol88's usual charged dust and double layer insanity from The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma..

tusenfem (a plasma physicist working on comets) has told Sol88 that double layers are physically impossible at comets and there is no evidence of double layers at comets. Sol88 has several years of ignorant delusions about papers not mentioning double layers with data on scales that DLs cannot have at comets. Endlessly repeating that measurements of electric fields varying over many kilometers are DLs is deluded when DL's have scales of a few hundred of the Debye length and that is a meter or so in cometary coma.

Sol88's persistent insanity about ambipolar electric fields being DLs.

An insane lie that Evidence of sub-surface energy storage in comet 67P from the outburst of 2016 July 3 is evidence of his physically impossible double layers. As the title states that outburst was evidence of sub-surface energy storage !
Quote:
On 3 July 2016, several instruments on board ESA's Rosetta spacecraft detected signs of an outburst event on comet 67P, at a heliocentric distance of 3.32 AU from the sun, outbound from perihelion. We here report on the inferred properties of the ejected dust and the surface change at the site of the outburst. The activity coincided with the local sunrise and continued over a time interval of 14 - 68 minutes. It left a 10m-sized icy patch on the surface. The ejected material comprised refractory grains of several hundred microns in size, and sub-micron-sized water ice grains. The high dust mass production rate is incompatible with the free sublimation of crystalline water ice under solar illumination as the only acceleration process. Additional energy stored near the surface must have increased the gas density. We suggest a pressurized sub-surface gas reservoir, or the crystallization of amorphous water ice as possible causes.

Repeats his "DUSTY PLASMA EFFECTS INCOMETS: EXPECTATIONS FOR ROSETTA D.A. Mendis1 and M. Horányi2" insanity - the insanity is that no one expected charged dust at 67P when charged dust has been part of the mainstream ices and dust comet model since at least 1966 !

A lying "No mention in Deca's paper about the nucleus being charged" delusion when he knows jan Decca's paper is about comet coma.
A Fully Kinetic Perspective of Electron Acceleration around a Weakly Outgassing Comet by Divin et. al (including Jan Deca)
Quote:
Abstract
The cometary mission Rosetta has shown the presence of higher-than-expected suprathermal electron fluxes. In this study, using 3D fully kinetic electromagnetic simulations of the interaction of the solar wind with a comet, we constrain the kinetic mechanism that is responsible for the bulk electron energization that creates the suprathermal distribution from the warm background of solar wind electrons. We identify and characterize the magnetic field-aligned ambipolar electric field that ensures quasi-neutrality and traps warm electrons. Solar wind electrons are accelerated to energies as high as 50–70 eV close to the comet nucleus without the need for wave–particle or turbulent heating mechanisms. We find that the accelerating potential controls the parallel electron temperature, total density, and (to a lesser degree) the perpendicular electron temperature and the magnetic field magnitude. Our self-consistent approach enables us to better understand the underlying plasma processes that govern the near-comet plasma environment
The "Weakly Outgassing Comet" part is that fact that comets outgas ! Comet 67P where the suprathermal electron fluxes were detected was a weakly outgassing comet. Maybe that is why the abstract has "near-comet plasma environment" - the weak outgassing allows the solar wind to penetrate the coma to near the comet nucleus.

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Old 10th February 2020, 12:37 AM   #1124
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Quote:
tusenfem (a plasma physicist working on comets) has told Sol88 that double layers are physically impossible at comets and there is no evidence of double layers at comets. Sol88 has several years of ignorant delusions about papers not mentioning double layers with data on scales that DLs cannot have at comets. Endlessly repeating that measurements of electric fields varying over many kilometers are DLs is deluded when DL's have scales of a few hundred of the Debye length and that is a meter or so in cometary coma.

Sol88's persistent insanity about ambipolar electric fields being DLs.
No, i was told it's too turbulent for a double layer to form...
Quote:
A complementary mechanism
discussed by Madanian et al. (2016) proposes that an ambipolar
electric established by the electron pressure gradient close to
the nucleus provides sufficient non turbulent acceleration to
explain the observed electron velocity distributions. The latter
was confirmed by Deca et al. (2017) using 3D fully kinetic
particle-in-cell simulations, showing as well that the suprathermal
population is primarily of solar wind origin
magnetic field aligned ambipolar electric field, accelerated solar wind electrons are close to the comet nucleus without the need for wave–particle or turbulent heating mechanisms. that's new!

I believe I banged on bout double layer doing the accelerating, tusenfem banged on about lower hybrid waves to no end...still progress.
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Old 10th February 2020, 12:41 AM   #1125
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Now, just to make dead set, the comet is made of MOSTLY ROCK. We see pulverised refractory dust at Rosetta.

The ELECTRIC COMET only needs a charge separation for the majic to happen.

Any charge separation at comets RC?

One would wonder how do you turn rock to dust??

Quote:
The physical consequences include electrostatic levitation and blow-off of dust from the charged cometary nucleus and electrostatic disruption and erosion of charge dust in the cometary plasma environment. The dynamical consequence arises from the new electrodynamic forces that charged dust grains experience in the magnetized plasma environment of the comet.
DUSTY PLASMA EFFECTS INCOMETS: EXPECTATIONS FOR ROSETTA D.A. Mendis and M. Horányi
__________________
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“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator

Last edited by Sol88; 10th February 2020 at 12:44 AM.
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Old 10th February 2020, 09:24 AM   #1126
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Now, just to make dead set, the comet is made of MOSTLY ROCK. We see pulverised refractory dust at Rosetta.
No we do not. Stop lying. Fail.

Quote:
The ELECTRIC COMET only needs a charge separation for the majic to happen.
No, it does not, given that any charge separation is governed by the Debye length in the coma. It is ~ 10m in the solar wind, so will be less in the coma. Fail.

Quote:
Any charge separation at comets RC?
Not beyond the Debye length, as explained above, and also by Divin, et al. Fail

Quote:
One would wonder how do you turn rock to dust??
The dust at 67P? You can't. Fail.
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Old 10th February 2020, 09:25 AM   #1127
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Quote:
tusenfem? This is a DOUBLE LAYER!!!
No it is not. Stop lying. Fail.
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Old 10th February 2020, 09:35 AM   #1128
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Quote:
Now very quickly, what would happen to this negatively charged dust that is also under the influence of this ambipolar electric field?
Most of it? Nothing. It is too massive to be noticeably affected. In addition, given that the dust is of cometary origin, if affected at all, it will undergo the same process as the cometary electrons. Which is explained in the paper, for those that bothered to read and understand it;

Quote:
A large ambipolar electric field is established that is associated with the local electron density gradient. It temporarily traps the solar wind electron population (Madanian et al. 2016; Deca et al. 2017, 2019; Sishtla et al. 2019) that is visualized by blue “!” markers in Figure 1. Since cometary ions are much more inert (visualized by the magenta “⊕” markers in Figure 1), they need a considerably longer time to leave the region where they were ionized. The high solar wind electron density near the comet compensates for the charge imbalance (Figures 2(b), (e)), briefly trapping fast-moving electrons and confirming the coupled four-fluid scenario (Deca et al. 2017) also for a lower outgassing rate.
And has nothing whatever to do with your missing rock, EDM (lol), and other discharges. The total lack of which leaves your unscientific, impossible woo in the tray marked "unscientific, impossible woo." Fail.
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Old 10th February 2020, 09:41 AM   #1129
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Quote:
I believe I banged on bout double layer doing the accelerating, tusenfem banged on about lower hybrid waves to no end...still progress.
No, you spouted a load of scientifically impossible nonsense about DLs. Which are not seen. And what is being described by Divin, Deca, et al, is not a DL, nor even close to being a DL.
So, the only progress being made is you continually being shown to be wrong by the in-situ evidence and simulations.
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Old 10th February 2020, 12:37 PM   #1130
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
No, i was told it's too turbulent for a double layer to form...
Confirms his insanity of physically impossible double layers at comets in The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma. !

tusenfem (a plasma physicist working on comets) has told Sol88 that double layers are physically impossible at comets because the magnetic field is too turbulent (thus the required electric field to separate the charges into layers cannot form). I suspect that mechanical turbulence also rules out double layers. Then there is Sol88's idiocy of blatant delusions of evidence for his DL insanity.

Followed by deluded "magnetic field aligned ambipolar electric field, accelerated solar wind electrons" gibberish that have nothing to do with DLs.
Sol88 insanely highlights "non turbulent acceleration" of electrons when DLs are layers of charges , e.g. an electron surplus in one layer, ion surplus in the other layer: Double layer.

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Old 10th February 2020, 12:40 PM   #1131
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Sorry jonesy.

You are wrong.

Dirtysnowball (lol)
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

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Old 10th February 2020, 12:56 PM   #1132
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
Usual insanity that comets are rock that has been debunked for over 10 years here: The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

Sol88's insanity of asking questions that have been answered again and again.
Sol88's insane lies about science. Decades old mainstream ices and dust comet science that dust on comets is electrostatically levitated is not his demented dogma of deluded electric discharge machining magically turning imaginary rock into dust. The science is the real world acting according to the laws of physics. Comets made of ices and dust will be electrostatically charged during low activity far from the Sun by the soar wind and sunlight. That will electrostatically levitate dust to the extent that it can for part of the coma and the dust tail.

The dogma is the delusions of a few deranged prophets who are parroting and extending the ignorant fantasies of their hero, Immanuel Velikovsky !
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Old 10th February 2020, 01:02 PM   #1133
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...)
Usual gibberish that we have seen in the last almost 11 years: The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

Sol88 is insanely obsessed with things like "negatively charged dust " that are not in his demented cult dogma!
Sol88 has written lies about physically impossible double layers for several years.
Sol88 has lied about scientific ice and dust comet papers for many years.
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Old 10th February 2020, 01:37 PM   #1134
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So to be clear, jonesdave116, you are saying this process is impossible in the Dirtysnowball model?
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Old 10th February 2020, 01:43 PM   #1135
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Most of it? Nothing. It is too massive to be noticeably affected. In addition, given that the dust is of cometary origin, if affected at all, it will undergo the same process as the cometary electrons. Which is explained in the paper, for those that bothered to read and understand it;



And has nothing whatever to do with your missing rock, EDM (lol), and other discharges. The total lack of which leaves your unscientific, impossible woo in the tray marked "unscientific, impossible woo." Fail.

Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
Surfing space dust bunnies spawn interplanetary magnetic fields


Quote:
In addition to solving a mystery, the new observations provide insights into the behavior of neutral matter in the solar system—like rocks, asteroids and planets—and charged matter like plasma, Russell said.

"The (scientific) community doesn't really think about the interface between neutral rocks and plasma," he said. When particles are small enough, that neutral matter becomes charged and is affected by the solar wind. "This is showing where that interface is."
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator

Last edited by zooterkin; 12th February 2020 at 03:49 AM.
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Old 10th February 2020, 05:50 PM   #1136
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
So to be clear, jonesdave116, you are saying this process is impossible in the Dirtysnowball model?
Insanely vague "this process" stupidity when it is the real world of physics that shows that Sol88's ignorant delusions are physically impossible at comets.
No DLs at comets because turbulence in cometary coma mixes up the electric fields needed to form DLs.
No DL's on the scales of Sol88's past demented "evidence" about comets because the Debye length of cometary coma is ~10 metres.
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Old 10th February 2020, 05:56 PM   #1137
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Care to show me where that happened? And who is still claiming that the dirty snowball model is correct?

Which model are the mainstream using then champ?

The make it up as you go along one?

or scientific progress

Quote:
(c) What are comets made of?
At the simplest level, a very basic question is whether comets are mostly ice or mostly
rock/dirt/refractory material.

Whipple’s [2] model of the dirty snowball, the first quantitative
model, envisioned cometary nuclei as mostly ice, although our understanding has been evolving
more toward mostly rock,


particularly for 67P/C-G for which refractory/volatile ratios as high
as 6 have been cited [3,4]. Nevertheless, there is still considerable uncertainty about even this
basic parameter, not least of which is that most measurements are subject to selection effects in
removing refractories from the nucleus to the coma, where they are observed as dust.
Comets: looking ahead Michael F. A’Hearn

sorry champ, you are living in the past!
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Old 10th February 2020, 06:08 PM   #1138
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
More of Sol88's insane gibberish as expected from The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

Sol88 insanely cites Surfing space dust bunnies spawn interplanetary magnetic fields which is about the Earth's magnetosheath. The Earth is not a comet !
This is the interesting observation that interplanetary dust rides the solar wind past the Earth. That supports a hypothesis that other detection of variations in magnetic fields, e.g. around Venus, were caused by "clouds of magnetized dust surfing the solar wind" (the dust bunnies). The dust comes from colliding rocks. The article ends with
Quote:
"The (scientific) community doesn't really think about the interface between neutral rocks and plasma," he said. When particles are small enough, that neutral matter becomes charged and is affected by the solar wind. "This is showing where that interface is."
Which is not really true for cometary scientists who have been thinking about natural dust interacting with sunlight and the solar wind for many decades.

What makes Sol88's citation insane is that this is evidence supporting the source of some of the dust found at Wild 2 by the Stardust mission! Some dust grains were formed in the hot inner Solar System and pushed outward by the stronger solar wind of the young Sun.
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Old 10th February 2020, 06:30 PM   #1139
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
.. Michael F. A’Hearn
Sol88's persistent insane insult of the deceased Michael F. A’Hearn who was never demented enough to believe that comets are rocks that were blasted from planets, etc. which is Sol88's demented dogma.
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

For others:
When any astronomer writes "rock" in the context of comets, it is an insult to say they mean actual rock because astronomers know the 70 years of evidence that comets are not rock ! It becomes especially insane when Michael F. A’Hearn has hundreds of papers on ices and dust comets. It is more insane because Sol88 cherry picks A’Hearn's last paper and adds deluded highlights. A bit more insanity because A’Hearn is dead and obviously cannot defend himself against Sol88's insults. More insanity because Sol88 quote mines A’Hearn's paper which debunks Sol88's demented dogma by stating the evidence supported origin of comets.
Comets: looking ahead by Michael F. A’Hearn
Quote:
(a) Where did comets form?
Comets certainly formed in the protosolar nebula, or more specifically in the protoplanetary disc around the Sun or proto-Sun and they almost certainly formed primarily by accretion of solids rather than gases or liquids.
...
b) How did comets form?
Many theories have been put forward to describe the formation of cometary nuclei in the protoplanetary disc. The currently most popular theory is accretion of pebbles triggered by the two-stream instability as recently discussed by Davidsson [1] and references therein, but there are many free parameters in this model so it cannot be considered definitive without further observations of the physical conditions under which comets formed.
...
(c) What are comets made of?
At the simplest level, a very basic question is whether comets are mostly ice or mostly rock/dirt/refractory material. Whipple’s [2] model of the dirty snowball, the first quantitative model, envisioned cometary nuclei as mostly ice, although our understanding has been evolving more toward mostly rock, particularly for 67P/C-G for which refractory/volatile ratios as high as 6 have been cited [3,4]. Nevertheless, there is still considerable uncertainty about even this basic parameter, not least of which is that most measurements are subject to selection effects in
removing refractories from the nucleus to the coma, where they are observed as dust.

With improvements in remote sensing over the last decade and particularly the wealth of measurements from Rosetta, we are making large strides in answering the question of which volatiles (ices) are near the surface of cometary nuclei, and the Deep Impact experiment implies that the near-surface volatiles are representative of the deeper interior [5,6]. The indications are that there is a large dispersion in relative abundances with only very limited correlations between relative abundances and any other parameters. On the other hand, we know very little about the abundance of the many possible refractory species. As noted above, there were great advances from the Stardust mission, particularly the clear demonstration that cometary silicate grains had been transported from near the Sun to the region of cometary formation, but the selection effects in collecting the returned samples make it almost impossible to say much quantitatively about the bulk abundances of refractories [7].
(d) How are comets put together?
Understanding the internal structure of the nucleus is crucial in constraining formation scenarios. It has been clear for some time that cometary nuclei are porous but knowing whether the porosity is predominantly at the microsopic level, the macroscopic level at scales small compared with the nucleus itself, or at large scales (a significant fraction of the nuclear radius) is critical for understanding formation scenarios.
...
We started with a model that explained the existing empirical data (Whipple’s model of the dirty snowball). Astronomers in the 1950's thought that the early solar system was mostly ice and so in general new comets would obviously be mostly ice.
Over the last 30 years, we have seen evidence that comets do not have as much ice as expected 70 years ago. In 2005, Deep Impact showed Comet Tempel 1 had a higher % of dust than expected. Comet 67P has at least 17% ices. So the model is tending toward an icy dirt ball.

Michael F. A’Hearn emphasized that the refractory/volatile ratios are subject to considerable uncertainty.

Sol88 remains deluded that science does not get updated when new evidence arrives!
Sol88 lies about A’Hearn's paper which states comets were not blasted from planets as in Sol88's demented dogma. The

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Old 10th February 2020, 06:33 PM   #1140
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Quote:
Sol88 remains deluded that science does not get updated when new evidence arrives!
And continues to lie about it. I really hate people who lie. Knowingly.
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Old 10th February 2020, 07:32 PM   #1141
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A complementary mechanism discussed by Madanian et al. (2016) proposes that an ambipolar electric established by the electron pressure gradient close to the nucleus provides sufficient non turbulent acceleration to explain the observed electron velocity distributions. The latter was confirmed by Deca et al. (2017) using 3D fully kinetic particle-in-cell simulations, showing as well that the suprathermal population is primarily of solar wind origin.
Again, sufficient non turbulent electron acceleration!

Is the dust negatively charged, jonesdave116? Lets check what mainstream real scientists, with real degrees, that have spent years studying their subject say.

Quote:
4.5 Charged Dust
As a rule of thumb, a dust particle collects about 700 extra electrons per unit particle volume equivalent radius (measured in μm) and unit electric potential difference between the particle surface and the surrounding plasma (measured in V).
Yup, negatively charged.

further,

Quote:
5.1 Dust Release, Continuous and Abrupt Processes

The nucleus of a comet is the origin of dust seen in the inner coma and, ultimately, in the
cometary dust tail and trail. However, the details of the processes that initially lift the dust are, at best, uncertain.
Cometary Dust

Uncertain for dogma followers like jd116 and his ignorant gang of plasma ignoramus's

NOT FOR THE ELECTRIC COMET!

Now you'd think that real scientists, with real degrees, having spent years studying their subject, would know what they are talking about...

but

Quote:
"The (scientific) community doesn't really think about the interface between neutral rocks and plasma," he said. When particles are small enough, that neutral matter becomes charged and is affected by the solar wind. "This is showing where that interface is."
Surfing space dust bunnies spawn interplanetary magnetic fields

Now, you'd think that real scientists, with real degrees, having spent years studying their subject, do not know what they are talking about, would be able to think outside the standard mainstream thinking of an electrically sterile universe!

Unfortunately that's the fastest way out of their career.
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Old 10th February 2020, 07:37 PM   #1142
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Maybe a better way of you, jd116, of answering this very standard garden variety of electrodynamics.

What do you think happens to the negatively charged dust under the influence of the accelerating magnetic field aligned ambipolar electric field?

hint, jonesy me 'ol mate, dust are negatively charged particles FAR more massive than electrons but
Quote:
Once they were ionized—which means they were given an electrical charge—they could be affected by the electrical charges
This includes for the slow of thinking ELECTRIC FIELDS!
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Old 10th February 2020, 07:54 PM   #1143
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
Insanely vague "this process" stupidity when it is the real world of physics that shows that Sol88's ignorant delusions are physically impossible at comets.
No DLs at comets because turbulence in cometary coma mixes up the electric fields needed to form DLs.
No DL's on the scales of Sol88's past demented "evidence" about comets because the Debye length of cometary coma is ~10 metres.
Quote:
A complementary mechanism discussed by Madanian et al. (2016) proposes that an ambipolar electric established by the electron pressure gradient close to the nucleus provides sufficient non turbulent acceleration to explain the observed electron velocity distributions.
Yup, that's a double layer!
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Old 11th February 2020, 02:11 AM   #1144
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Yup, that's a double layer!
No it is not. Quit with the lying and ignorance. You do not understand the subject, so best that you stick to something you do understand. Whatever that may be, it is not science.
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Old 11th February 2020, 02:15 AM   #1145
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Maybe a better way of you, jd116, of answering this very standard garden variety of electrodynamics.

What do you think happens to the negatively charged dust under the influence of the accelerating magnetic field aligned ambipolar electric field?

hint, jonesy me 'ol mate, dust are negatively charged particles FAR more massive than electrons but This includes for the slow of thinking ELECTRIC FIELDS!
Can't you read? I answered your stupid question no more than a few posts ago. If negative, and if affected, it will react the same way as the electrons. Which does absolutely nothing for your failed woo, does it? Dust does not come into your failed woo. It is mentioned nowhere in your failed woo. Other than the failed claim that it won't be there.
So, instead of showing your ignorance, and continually asking stupid and irrelevant questions, why don't you tell us what the dust has got to do with non-existent EDM? Spell it out. Otherwise, go away.
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Old 11th February 2020, 02:18 AM   #1146
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Again, A'Hearn

There it is in black and white, suck it up buttercup.
There is no rock at comets. You are a liar. Show us the paper in which rock is detected. What type of rock is it? Which instrument detected it? Link to the discovery, or admit that you are a liar.
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Old 11th February 2020, 02:45 AM   #1147
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Quote:
The primary distinction between comet and asteroid surfaces is that electrical
arcing and “electrostatic cleaning” of the comet nucleus will leave little or no
dust or debris on the surface during the active phase, even if a shallow layer
of dust may be attracted back to the nucleus electrostatically as the comet
becomes dormant in its retreat to more remote regions.
So, here is the official woo position on cometary dust, from the wooists-in-chief. Please tell us what any putative effects on dust have to do with the above. That is, what has dust, that should not be there according to the above, got to do with the already failed electric comet woo?
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Old 11th February 2020, 12:37 PM   #1148
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Again, A'Hearn
Again the insane insult of A'Hearn from The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
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Old 11th February 2020, 12:43 PM   #1149
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Again, sufficient non turbulent electron acceleration!...
Sol88's deranged delusion that electron acceleration is physically impossible double layers at comets.
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

Sol88's insanity about negativity charged dust, etc. which is mainstream ices and dust comet science, not his demented comet & Sun dogma.

Sol88's utter insanity that we do not know that negativity charged dust exists when we have read the papers detecting it !
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Old 11th February 2020, 12:44 PM   #1150
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
More charged dust insanity from Sol88 and a demented question as usual.

No ambipolar electric field is his idiotic "accelerating magnetic field aligned". An ambipolar electric field is the electric field caused by the different diffusion of electrons and ions in plasma. A magnetic field will "align" the diffusion thus there is a real magnetic field aligned ambipolar electric field as in A Fully Kinetic Perspective of Electron Acceleration around a Weakly Outgassing Comet by Divin et. al (including Jan Deca)
Quote:
Abstract
The cometary mission Rosetta has shown the presence of higher-than-expected suprathermal electron fluxes. In this study, using 3D fully kinetic electromagnetic simulations of the interaction of the solar wind with a comet, we constrain the kinetic mechanism that is responsible for the bulk electron energization that creates the suprathermal distribution from the warm background of solar wind electrons. We identify and characterize the magnetic field-aligned ambipolar electric field that ensures quasi-neutrality and traps warm electrons. Solar wind electrons are accelerated to energies as high as 50–70 eV close to the comet nucleus without the need for wave–particle or turbulent heating mechanisms. We find that the accelerating potential controls the parallel electron temperature, total density, and (to a lesser degree) the perpendicular electron temperature and the magnetic field magnitude. Our self-consistent approach enables us to better understand the underlying plasma processes that govern the near-comet plasma environment
Sol88's question is demented because school children know what happens when a charge is in a magnetic or electric field.

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Old 11th February 2020, 01:05 PM   #1151
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Exclamation Sol88's insane lie that "non turbulent acceleration" are physically impossible DLs

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Yup, that's a double layer!
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
+ Sol88's insane lie that "non turbulent acceleration" are his physically impossible double layers at comets.

Sol88's new insanity is that the phrase "non turbulent acceleration" is his physically impossible double layers at a comet.
Quote:
A complementary mechanism discussed by Madanian et al. (2016) proposes that an ambipolar electric established by the electron pressure gradient close to the nucleus provides sufficient non turbulent acceleration to explain the observed electron velocity distributions.
Anyone who is not obsessed by a demented cult's dogma can understand this quote. An electron pressure gradient establishes an ambipolar electric field. That electric field accelerates electrons smoothly (non turbulent).

Of course, this is Sol88's usual insanity of citing a ices and dust comet paper!
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Old 11th February 2020, 01:34 PM   #1152
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Most of it? Nothing. It is too massive to be noticeably affected. In addition, given that the dust is of cometary origin, if affected at all, it will undergo the same process as the cometary electrons. Which is explained in the paper, for those that bothered to read and understand it;

Thank you jonesdave116!!!
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Old 11th February 2020, 01:40 PM   #1153
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
So, here is the official woo position on cometary dust, from the wooists-in-chief. Please tell us what any putative effects on dust have to do with the above. That is, what has dust, that should not be there according to the above, got to do with the already failed electric comet woo?

I believe mainstream call this “air fall”, aeolian ripples and ventifacts.

Redistribution of particles across the nucleus of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

When all you have is a hammer, ay jd116!
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Old 11th February 2020, 01:52 PM   #1154
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Sol88's persistent insanity of lying about irrelevant mainstream ices and dust cometary science as in The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma (updated 12 Feb 2020).

Sol88's current spate of stupidity is about charged dust in the coma of 67P.
Redistribution of particles across the nucleus of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko is about dust emitted from the surface of 67P falling back.
Quote:
Results. We show by observation and modeling that “airfall” as a consequence of non-escaping large particles emitted from the neck region of the nucleus is a plausible explanation for the smooth thin deposits in the northern hemisphere of the nucleus.

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Old 11th February 2020, 03:28 PM   #1155
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
Sol88's persistent insanity of lying about irrelevant mainstream ices and dust cometary science as in The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma (updated 12 Feb 2020).

Sol88's current spate of stupidity is about charged dust in the coma of 67P.
Redistribution of particles across the nucleus of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko is about dust emitted from the surface of 67P falling back.
Enough charge on that size grain to mobilise it across the surface and redistribute it from areas of potential difference, not enough whoosha to eject it from the surface. As jd116 says, follows the electrons....

This only is STRONG evidence for localised surface electric fields.

Rosetta can not detect them.
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Old 11th February 2020, 05:30 PM   #1156
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma (updated 12 Feb 2020). + Sol88's current (Feb 2020) spate of stupidity is about charged dust in the coma of 67P and he cites a paper on the transport of neutral surface dust .

Sol88's usual deluded lies about scientific papers.
Redistribution of particles across the nucleus of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko (PDF) is about dust emitted by outgassing from the surface of 67P falling back. The paper has the results of calculations of the trajectory of neutral particles from the neck of 67P. The word "charge" does not even appear in the paper!

Sol88 is obviously making up deluded fantasies without even reading the paper.

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Old 11th February 2020, 08:01 PM   #1157
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Can't you read? I answered your stupid question no more than a few posts ago. If negative, and if affected, it will react the same way as the electrons. Which does absolutely nothing for your failed woo, does it? Dust does not come into your failed woo. It is mentioned nowhere in your failed woo. Other than the failed claim that it won't be there.
So, instead of showing your ignorance, and continually asking stupid and irrelevant questions, why don't you tell us what the dust has got to do with non-existent EDM? Spell it out. Otherwise, go away.
If the dust is negative???

Whoo boyo

Let double check, together shall we jd116?

Quote:
4.5 Charged Dust

This means that in the solar wind a particle of 1 μm size can have about 104 extra electrons.

Fluffy particles carry always an important amount of charge vs. their mass, so that their motion is significantly affected by electric and magnetic fields, confirming the interpretations of striae in dust tails in terms of charged dust (Notni and Tiersch 1987).
Further

Quote:
However, even in the case of the electrostatic mechanism, some circumstantial evidence can be found. For example, 67P/C-G shows ponded deposits (Thomas et al. 2015b) that are also seen on asteroids and have been attributed to the effect of electrostatic forces (Hartzell et al. 2013).
and
Quote:
As a result, the electric field is aligned along the z-axis. It can be seen that the presence of an electric field deflects the motion of the bulk dust flow. For this reason, charging of dust grains should be taken into account when modeling the dust phase of a coma. The Lorentz force is obtained using a pre-calculated [1] distribution of the plasma flow and electric/magnetic fields in the coma. Simulation of a grain’s motion is performed in fully 3D.
Kinetic simulation of neutral/ionized gas and electrically charged dust in the coma of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

So....the dust is negativity charged AND responds collectively to various electric fields that are in pay at 67P.

Don't have to be very smart to work that out!

You HAVE to include that the dust is CHARGED when trying to work out how jets work!
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Old 11th February 2020, 08:27 PM   #1158
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
Sol88's usual demented questions and lies.
Sol88's persistent insanity that we deny that there was charged dust and electric fields found at 67P. Likewise for the rest of the real world of physics and comets.
Sol88's insanity that we do not know how cometary jets work.
This is nothing to do with jets which are neutral dust blasted off the nucleus by sublimating ices. It is interaction with sunlight, solar wind, etc. that charges the dust.

Sol88's persistent insanity of lying about his demented cult's dogma which mostly ignores comet coma : Sol88's current (Feb 2020) spate of stupidity is about charged dust in the coma of 67P and he cites a paper on the transport of neutral surface dust .

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Old 11th February 2020, 08:47 PM   #1159
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Quote:
The electrons are retarded. Just like you. Yes? Ever figured out why you are too stupid to work in a scientific area? And drive a truck for a living? Something that a suitably trained chimp could probably do? Think about it, woo boy.
What is 100 minus a reasonably large number? That would be your IQ. Comprende? Go away, and find an astrology forum. That is the limit of your total misunderstanding of science.
Easy Champ, easy!

Lets have a look again, shall we...A Fully Kinetic Perspective of Electron Acceleration around a Weakly Outgassing Comet

Negatively charged dust/Electrons
Quote:
.... it will react the same way as the electrons.
Jonedave116.

So...since we are at the distance 67P was weakly out gassing, one of my favorite papers is back on the table now jd116 has reluctantly admitted electrons/dust will react the same way...

Surface charging and electrostatic dust acceleration at the nucleus
of comet67P during periods of low activity
Quote:
Here we have assumed that the acceleration of charged nano-grains due to gas drag is negligible compared to the acceleration by electrostatic forces.
and

the all time classic...

Is near-surface ice the driver of dust activity
on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko


Quote:
Conclusions. In the framework of the presented model, which can be considered common in terms of assumptions and physical
parameters in the cometary community, the dust removal by a gas drag force is not a plausible physical mechanism. The sublimation of not only water ice, but also of super-volatile ice (i.e., CO) is unable to remove dust grains for illumination conditions corresponding to 1.3 AU. A way out of this impasse requires revision of the most common model assumption employed by the cometary community.
but

DUSTY PLASMA EFFECTS IN COMETS:
EXPECTATIONS FOR ROSETTA


D.A. Mendis and M. Horányi



The ELECTRIC COMET!

All this negative charge, mostly in the form of charged dust leaving the MOSTLY ROCKY nucleus, reduces the potential difference between the charged nucleus and the surrounding magnetized plasma!

again this IS the ELECTRIC COMET!

The ELECTRIC COMET
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Old 11th February 2020, 08:52 PM   #1160
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
Sol88's usual demented questions and lies.
Sol88's persistent insanity that we deny that there was charged dust and electric fields found at 67P. Likewise for the rest of the real world of physics and comets.

Sol88's insanity that we do not know how cometary jets work.
This is nothing to do with jets which are neutral dust blasted off the nucleus by sublimating ices. It is interaction with sunlight, solar wind, etc. that charges the dust.
Shown to be a misinterpretation based on the fact comets were thought to BE MOSTLY ICE.


On the ion-neutral coupling in cometary comae

Quote:
These analytical results are in line with previous numerical calculations, adapting similar but not identical field profiles.

The presence of a non-negligible ambipolar electric field and limited importance of ion-neutral collisional coupling are further supported by observations in the diamagnetic cavity of comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko by plasma instruments onboard Rosetta that reveal ion speeds several times higher than the neutral expansion velocity.
Ion-neutral coupling is also called gas drag, see above posts.

You and jd116 are living in the past!
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