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Old 5th October 2019, 01:08 PM   #801
Lothian
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I am not sure I know their real names never mind made up ones.
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Old 5th October 2019, 01:13 PM   #802
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Originally Posted by Francesca R View Post
And why is there this lack of evidence? Because of Corbyn/McDonnell sheer pig-headedness. That's why.

That may be the truth but failure to cede indicates that they put the maintainence of such fantasy above national interest.

Corbyn is probably fine with no deal just as long as he isn't blamed. Hopefully consensus wisdom will start to blame him soon.
On what planet is JC stopping Ken Clarke coming forward and syaing he has rhe support of thr rebel tories, lib dem and snp and only needs labour to step up?

Planet blame JC.
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Old 5th October 2019, 01:15 PM   #803
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
It's not merely unlikely to happen; it's impossible, because if Charles succeeds his mother he will be Charles III of both England and Scotland and Charles I of the UK.
I think I read that he was planning to adopt another name as king, though I can't remember what it was.
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Old 5th October 2019, 01:16 PM   #804
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I understand that the Royal family is a net financial benefit to the UK.

Estimates that I have read suggest that the Sovereign Grant is costing UK taxpayers £82.2m this financial year. However they are said to contribute £1.8 billion to the economy of which £550 million comes from added tourism. These numbers appear to be debatable but it is evident that the Royal family is less costly than a popularly elected (or Parliamentary appointed) head of state.

In any case, there is little popular support for a UK Republic.
And you believe that? And the UK is a Republic.
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Old 5th October 2019, 01:19 PM   #805
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I think I read that he was planning to adopt another name as king, though I can't remember what it was.
Kong?

The second obvs.
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Old 5th October 2019, 01:32 PM   #806
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I looked it up:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charle...les_and_styles

Quote:
There has been speculation as to what regnal name the prince would choose upon his succession to the throne. If he uses his first name, he would be known as Charles III. However, it was reported in 2005 that Charles has suggested he may choose to reign as George VII in honour of his maternal grandfather, and to avoid association with the Stuart kings Charles I (who was beheaded) and Charles II (who was known for his promiscuous lifestyle),[267] as well as to be sensitive to the memory of Bonnie Prince Charlie, who was called "Charles III" by his supporters.[267] Charles's office responded that "no decision has been made".[268]
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Old 5th October 2019, 02:22 PM   #807
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Yep, our Charles wouldn't want to be associated with marital infidelity.
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Old 5th October 2019, 02:40 PM   #808
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Madge is from her MADGEsty

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Old 5th October 2019, 02:47 PM   #809
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UK Channel 4 have a brilliant satirical sitcom called "The Windsors" about the Royal Family
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Old 5th October 2019, 04:32 PM   #810
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I think I read that he was planning to adopt another name as king, though I can't remember what it was.
Throatwobbler Mangrove.
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Old 5th October 2019, 06:21 PM   #811
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
It really starts looking like EU agreeing to an extension giving time to hold a referendum between status quo (equals stay), and a set list of arrangements for leaving.
Thus some semblance of order and reason will return. This would take a year but everyone could plan properly.

Is there some reason to think that further time to plan will be employed any more usefully or with any better results than the time they have had so far?
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Old 5th October 2019, 07:20 PM   #812
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I think I read that he was planning to adopt another name as king, though I can't remember what it was.
I think it was George but that's really boring. Edward VII was Bertie to his friends, and Edward VIII was I think David.
George has this advantage, that the correct regnal number is the same in England, Scotland and Britain and it is the only established Hanoverian kingly name of which that is true. Because All the George's have reigned subsequently to the Union of parliaments, and further unforced slights to the Scots in the matter even of royal names are now to be avoided.

Yesterday's Indy demo in Edinburgh was huge.

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Old 5th October 2019, 07:42 PM   #813
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It's remarkable that both Labour and the conservative party have apparently ran out of credible leadership alternatives at the same time. After Gordon Brown Labour managed to scrape up Ed Miliband from the bottom of the barrel. Since they could apparently not find any worse moderate candidate left to replace him the stage was left for extremists like Corbyn simply by default.

The same situation has played out in the Conservative party. After David Cameron there was Theresa May simply because no other candidate wasn't disliked enough, and after her Boris Johnson faced no serious challengers.
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Old 5th October 2019, 07:56 PM   #814
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post

If course it would...

Will you be supporting this claim with evidence or just expecting everyone to believe whatever you say, as usual.
One poster put support at 30% currently.

Even if support for a republic exceeded 50% there is still the problem of what form the republic should take. Should a president be elected or appointed by parliament? Should the president head the executive (as in the US) or should he be largely ceremonial only?

A lot of people would rather vote for the status quo than vote for a republican model they didn't agree with. That's what happened in Australia in 1999.
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Old 5th October 2019, 08:02 PM   #815
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Does your economic argument include all the income from their 'personal' investments and crown estates that can be repatriated
As I understand it, the Sovereign grant is a rebate on taxes earned from the Royal properties (no doubt, a gaggle of posters will point out how wrong and ignorant I am).

Sure, if the government seized Royal properties without paying compensation then the taxpayers would get a windfall. But I don't think that McDonald's Castle would be as big a tourist attraction.

Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
And you believe that? And the UK is a Republic.
I provided the links to back up my numbers. If you don't like them then you are welcome to put up your own - especially the ones that say the UK is a republic.
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Old 5th October 2019, 08:14 PM   #816
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
As I understand it, the Sovereign grant is a rebate on taxes earned from the Royal properties (no doubt, a gaggle of posters will point out how wrong and ignorant I am).

Sure, if the government seized Royal properties without paying compensation then the taxpayers would get a windfall. But I don't think that McDonald's Castle would be as big a tourist attraction.


I provided the links to back up my numbers. If you don't like them then you are welcome to put up your own - especially the ones that say the UK is a republic.
In that case it would be the UR. Tourists visit Versailles even if there are no monarchs there, so I think the attractions of monarchs with their heads still attached, as objects for tourists, are overestimated. Once they're gone the availability of abandoned royal residences for tourist visits will even increase significantly anyway.
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Old 5th October 2019, 11:37 PM   #817
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Throatwobbler Mangrove.

It’s only pronounced “Throatwobbler-Mangrove”. It’s spelled “Luxury-Yacht”.
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Old 6th October 2019, 02:00 AM   #818
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Once again, Boris Johnson continues the "we could have a deal if only the foreigners would accept all out demands" message:

Quote:
Boris Johnson has claimed his Brexit proposals have picked up support in Parliament as he urged the European Union to compromise.

Writing in two Sunday papers he said: "We are leaving in 25 days. We can do it with a deal if the EU is willing."

Meanwhile, Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay told the EU and opposition MPs: "We are not backing down."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49950188

I do find it puzzling how such obviously unacceptable (to the EU) and unworkable proposals have gained so much support in Parliament. Presumably it's all part of the "avoiding the blame for no deal"
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Old 6th October 2019, 02:11 AM   #819
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Originally Posted by Francesca R View Post
I suspect what may stop Corbyn playing self-important silly buggers and stand aside, would be emergence of perception that in the final analysis it was largely his fault the country left with no deal, because there was a clear chance to avert it that was ruined by Corbyn's Jo Swinson's personal brand of stupid.
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Old 6th October 2019, 02:34 AM   #820
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
The Labour party should do whatever is best for the country which, at the moment, is not blindly standing behind someone who cannot command the confidence of the Commons the DAILY MAIL and the SUN. Better than that would be to try to persuade Corbyn that someone else should be PM.
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Old 6th October 2019, 02:45 AM   #821
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
No-one wants him. Even the Queen said Charles will be King over her dead body.........
The history of kings named 'Charles' is not a happy one.
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Old 6th October 2019, 02:50 AM   #822
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
And you believe that? And the UK is a Republic.
What you need to understand acbytesla is that the monarchy in the UK will never be abolished because it would upset the power balance of the largely unelected establishment (Lords, army, police, highest judges).
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Old 6th October 2019, 02:54 AM   #823
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
It's remarkable that both Labour and the conservative party have apparently ran out of credible leadership alternatives at the same time. After Gordon Brown Labour managed to scrape up Ed Miliband from the bottom of the barrel. Since they could apparently not find any worse moderate candidate left to replace him the stage was left for extremists like Corbyn simply by default.

The same situation has played out in the Conservative party. After David Cameron there was Theresa May simply because no other candidate wasn't disliked enough, and after her Boris Johnson faced no serious challengers.
Corbyn is hardly 'extreme', except the non-dom Tory supporting tabloids deem him so. He is a parliamentarian and is about as marxist as Rees-Mogg on dope.
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Old 6th October 2019, 03:17 AM   #824
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The remarkable headline in today's Sunday Times;

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...ueen-fsbpsnjdc

"‘Sack me if you dare,’ Boris Johnson will tell the Queen

The Speaker, John Bercow, has been proposed as a national unity leader"
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Old 6th October 2019, 03:21 AM   #825
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
On what planet is JC stopping Ken Clarke coming forward and syaing he has rhe support of thr rebel tories, lib dem and snp and only needs labour to step up?

Planet blame JC.
Well, firstly, nobody has blamed Corbyn for anything that Ken Clarke has or has not said, so this seems somewhat hysterical.

Secondly, it doesn't matter whether or not MPs scepticism of Corbyn is justified, the fact is that it exists and because of it he cannot command the confidence of the House. So the question becomes - if assigning blame is really the most productive way to look at the situation - is it the fault of that one person, or is it the fault of absolutely everybody else?
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Old 6th October 2019, 03:27 AM   #826
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Is there some reason to think that further time to plan will be employed any more usefully or with any better results than the time they have had so far?
If someone other than a hardline Brexiteer is in charge, yes. All the problems we've had have stemmed from May's "red lines" and insistence that any Brexit must be hard.
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Old 6th October 2019, 03:32 AM   #827
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Corbyn is not so much extreme as he is stuck in the 70s. I think it would do this country a lot of good to have the left-wing be truly left-wing again, rather than the re-heated Thatherism of Blair. It's just a shame that Corbyn is, well, Corbyn.
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Old 6th October 2019, 03:41 AM   #828
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The remarkable headline in today's Sunday Times;

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...ueen-fsbpsnjdc

"‘Sack me if you dare,’ Boris Johnson will tell the Queen

The Speaker, John Bercow, has been proposed as a national unity leader"
Brecow could be good on his own merits, but would be a terrible idea politically. It'd only rile up the Tories, and lend itself to the narrative of an obstructionist coup.

Any caretaker PM would have to be someone that both the public and the Commons can potentially agree - at least in principle - is working for the good of the country, rather than trying to further their own agenda. Bercow is way beyond that, as illustrated by the way he's been treated by and portrayed by the Tories recently.

Once Brexit is done, one way or the other, people are going to have to live with it and accept it. I don't think someone like Bercow could do that, regardless of how he acts in the role. There's way too much baggage, and too many people would have to do too much climbing down.

It's basically the same problem as with Corbyn, except that Bercow can't petulantly take his ball home with him if he doesn't get his own way.
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Old 6th October 2019, 03:50 AM   #829
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All Johnson wants is Brexit, I think if he gets it, he will resign as PM, declaring his job done.
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Old 6th October 2019, 03:57 AM   #830
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The history of kings named 'Charles' is not a happy one.
Oh yes it is. As in the Merry Monarch etc. "He was the playboy monarch, naughty but nice, the hero of all who prized urbanity, tolerance, good humour, and the pursuit of pleasure above the more earnest, sober, or material virtues." That was Charles II. Perhaps his father was less fortunate. But Charles II was no longer absolute ruler, unlike his father. What will Charles III be like I wonder?
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Old 6th October 2019, 03:57 AM   #831
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I think Johnson wants a no-deal Brexit, and power. I don't think he cares about leaving the EU at all, just what it can do to bring him wealth and power.
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Old 6th October 2019, 04:07 AM   #832
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Brecow could be good on his own merits, but would be a terrible idea politically. It'd only rile up the Tories, and lend itself to the narrative of an obstructionist coup.



Any caretaker PM would have to be someone that both the public and the Commons can potentially agree - at least in principle - is working for the good of the country, rather than trying to further their own agenda. Bercow is way beyond that, as illustrated by the way he's been treated by and portrayed by the Tories recently.



Once Brexit is done, one way or the other, people are going to have to live with it and accept it. I don't think someone like Bercow could do that, regardless of how he acts in the role. There's way too much baggage, and too many people would have to do too much climbing down.



It's basically the same problem as with Corbyn, except that Bercow can't petulantly take his ball home with him if he doesn't get his own way.
Has Ken Clarke thrown his hat into the ring?
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Old 6th October 2019, 04:13 AM   #833
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
All Johnson wants is Brexit, I think if he gets it, he will resign as PM, declaring his job done.
You have got to be kidding.
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Old 6th October 2019, 04:27 AM   #834
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Corbyn is not so much extreme as he is stuck in the 70s. I think it would do this country a lot of good to have the left-wing be truly left-wing again, rather than the re-heated Thatherism of Blair. It's just a shame that Corbyn is, well, Corbyn.
Corbyn is only 'stuck in the 70s' because the SUN and the MAIL insist on harking back to the 70's whenever his name is mentioned, not to mention the Tory backbenchers who never miss a chance to refer to when 'Corbyn met XYX' [name your favourite terrorist representative here] in 1971.

Imagine if Amber Rudd smoking pot at uni - like most of them it seems - is constantly referred to in terms of her life as a wet-behind-the-ears undergrad., would you then be claiming 'she's stuck in the 80's'?
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Old 6th October 2019, 04:29 AM   #835
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Has Ken Clarke thrown his hat into the ring?
Or even Dominic Grieve.
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Old 6th October 2019, 06:06 AM   #836
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Unless the Conservative MP's all throw their support behind it then Labour would be by far the largest party in this 'unity' government. The idea that they should agree to some Tory grandee or the leader of a minor party as PM is odd to say the least.
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Old 6th October 2019, 06:24 AM   #837
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
In that case it would be the UR. Tourists visit Versailles even if there are no monarchs there, so I think the attractions of monarchs with their heads still attached, as objects for tourists, are overestimated. Once they're gone the availability of abandoned royal residences for tourist visits will even increase significantly anyway.
Not if the Tories flog them off to the highest bidder (or their biggest campaign contributors).
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Old 6th October 2019, 07:30 AM   #838
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
FIFY
I rather suspect the blame for GNU non existence (if there isn't one) will mostly go to the one who insisted on being PM. Not to any others who didn't support them.

Hopefully it won't get to this stage.
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Old 6th October 2019, 09:24 AM   #839
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Has Ken Clarke thrown his hat into the ring?
Yes.
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Old 6th October 2019, 09:35 AM   #840
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Corbyn is only 'stuck in the 70s' because the SUN and the MAIL insist on harking back to the 70's whenever his name is mentioned, not to mention the Tory backbenchers who never miss a chance to refer to when 'Corbyn met XYX' [name your favourite terrorist representative here] in 1971.

Imagine if Amber Rudd smoking pot at uni - like most of them it seems - is constantly referred to in terms of her life as a wet-behind-the-ears undergrad., would you then be claiming 'she's stuck in the 80's'?
No, it's because much of what he pushes for - making all workers part of unions, re-nationalising trains, power companies, etc., and so on - hark back to the Britain of the 70s.

And, to be clear, I think that many of his policies would be a good thing, and I would undoubtedly welcome many of them. I think, while not without its problems, nationalisation is much better for everybody except for a very few large companies, to give one example. By far the preferable option, in my opinion.

But I'm not sure how feasible these ideas are in the current political climate.These are ideas that were commonplace back in the 70s, but now are seen as radical and extreme. In order to get them enacted, or even generally accepted, the Overton window will have to move further to the left than it currently is. Corbyn seems to ignore this and instead to just act as if the political landscape now is the same as it was in the 70s and that these ideas aren't seen as radical.
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