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Old 15th December 2020, 12:27 PM   #2481
Spektator
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Q: "Is PartSkeptic a false prophet?"

Magic 8-Ball reply: "It is decidedly so."

The Magic 8-Ball knows all and tells all.
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Old 15th December 2020, 12:28 PM   #2482
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Yet believers always refuse to explain how something FAR more complex, a god, can appear without any cause.
Ah, but you see, he didn't - he has always existed.

Or so I've been told...
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Old 15th December 2020, 12:36 PM   #2483
Cosmic Yak
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
You have just provided the proof of my claim that I am called a liar by some posters. Shame. Do you judge me by your own behavior - namely lying a lot?
You have already been called a liar by several posters, including myself. That isn't 'your claim': it's a simple fact. And you are a liar. This also is a fact.
Second part smacks of the playground, but OK, I'll bite: are you accusing me of being a frequent liar, and, if so, have you any evidence from this forum of that?
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Old 15th December 2020, 12:41 PM   #2484
abaddon
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Regrettably too many people think that, because they believe there is no God or afterlife,
Got any evidence for a god? Any god? Of course not. Got any evidence for an afterlife? Any afterlife at all? Of course you don't.

Why would anyone believe in such supernatural crap without a shred of evidence of any kind? By such borked rules one could claim Santa is real.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
then they have no restrictions on what they can get away with.
Theists quite often make the absurd claim to a monopoly on morality. It is a blatant lie.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
How many billionaires who made their money using unethical means are worried about karmic payback?
None. There is no evidence for "karma" either and it is a heresy according to your own church. What is the defined punishment for heresy?

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Would it help if they had some fear of divine retribution? I sure think so.
Perhaps you do think so, but there is no evidence for divine retribution ever happening, so clearly, there is nothing to fear.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
And I think when the die-off and collapse gets really bad, then money and power will not give them the comfort they want.
What "die-off"? Have you no clue that despite covid, the world population continues to grow?

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I think that the spiritual change coming will be helpful in achieving global common sense to take care of the planet.
There is no evidence for anything "spiritual". The planet will continue long after we are all dead and gone. We cannot stop that, we just wont be in it. The planet doesn't care whether we are or not.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Some are saying there is no going back to the way things were.
Who exactly? And do they mean what you think they mean?

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I agree. Only it is clear to me that people have no ability to imagine how bad it could be. The plagues of the past are just pictures in a book.
Of course you agree because it is what you want to happen in order to validate your fantasies. Now, I understand that you rationalise that by considering only numbers, but what you are fervently wishing for is the death of millions of fathers, mothers, sons, daughters and so on. Real actual people with lives and relationships and so forth but you want them dead. That is what you really want.

What if your wife is one of the ones to be culled? What if you are? Is that OK? Or not?

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I am at the point when one has to think about adjusting to the "new normal". For example, if Covid is unstoppable, maybe nations have to accept that and not spend billions on medical treatment while people starve from having no income.
OK that is a mess of odd notions. I have worked and earned throughout the entire covid fiasco. I have no idea why you think that is impossible.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Why not set up hospices where people can be cared for, and their suffering relieved while their immune system battles the virus? Let nature take its course.
Wow. death camps. You are aware that has happened before, right?
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Old 15th December 2020, 01:28 PM   #2485
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
...he has trouble walking, and now he has a foot problem.
He injured his foot and is now recovering from it. How is this fatal?

Quote:
I do not think Biden will be sworn in as President because he will be too ill or have passed on.
Let's be clear. Are you predicting this because you have had some sort of supernatural experience that gives you this as a matter of information upon which you can rely? Or are you simply gathering obvious clues about the state of his health and rolling the dice? Your claim has been in the past that you have a supernatural ability to predict the future, based variously on Tarot. What is your claim today?

When he is sworn in, will you count this as a hard failure?

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Let me hear your explanation for why "dumb" matter/energy has the attributes for intelligence life (humankind) to emerge? Chance? Hardly.
Straw man. Evolution and its related processes have been explained to you many times. That you choose not to attempt to understand it doesn't make the evidence go away. What you say cannot happen has, in fact, been observed to happen.

But of course right now you're just using turnabout to try to deflect from a question you obviously can't answer. Since there are so many various formulations of gods, and since even any one particular god is said not to be known with specificity, how can such a thing form any sort of testable explanation for anything? The answer is it can't. What you're taking as explanations are really just speculative attributions.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
You have just provided the proof of my claim that I am called a liar by some posters.
Yes, you are called a liar by some posters. That they made such statements was never in question. What remains in question is whether those accusations are justified. You claim effectively that you have never lied, and therefore that your critics must be mistaken. Not only is your repudiation absurd on its face, your critics have provided evidence of lies you've told. You actively ignore them -- which is to say, you acknowledge that the evidence has been given, and then you specifically exempt yourself from having to address it, citing its length or its brusqueness or some other excuse.

Since you refuse to provide any testable evidence of the claims you make, all that remains to discuss are the additional anecdotes and claims that you pile on top of them, and which you expect us to believe without question. Since so much of it is patently absurd or factually false -- and this can be determined -- then you have no business expecting skeptics to take you at your word. Whining that you're being mistreated only adds childishness to already unacceptable claims.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Agreed. However, it can be a shame for kids that grow up too early and lose their enjoyment of fantasy.
I don't see why growing up must entail losing enjoyment of fantasy. Popular-culture conventions host hordes of adults very much enjoying fantasy. And I don't see why no longer accepting a fantastical claim as fact means it can no longer be enjoyed. This time of year we all enjoy season myths from one tradition or another without fretting about whether they're factually true.

And on that basis you have argued that it's inconsequential to tell children these fantasies really are true, that it's not an operative lie to do so. But that argument hasn't survived scrutiny. You distinguish between white lies and factually equivalent operative lies based on nothing more than your desire to believe the latter. You are effectively asserting statements you admit you cannot know are true.

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I have to confess that for many years I thought wrestling was real and not the contrived acting/entertainment that it was. It was not as much fun after I was "enlightened".
That's a "you" problem.
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Old 15th December 2020, 01:46 PM   #2486
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post

I have to confess that for many years I thought wrestling was real and not the contrived acting/entertainment that it was. It was not as much fun after I was "enlightened".
You thought wrestling was real???

Just how gullible are you?

Wanna buy a bridge?
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Old 15th December 2020, 03:27 PM   #2487
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
I wish some adults could manage that. When I was a teenager, my mother was worried that D&D was "teaching me about monsters and spells", and years later she had a similar reaction when one of my nieces was reading Harry Potter.
Meh, many adults still believe the fantasies taught to them as kids in Sunday school.
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Old 15th December 2020, 04:22 PM   #2488
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I got a legal notice done to oppose legal costs against me.
Originally Posted by Mojo
Does that mean you had lost the case?
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
In this case, I was robbed! By a captured judiciary, unethical lawyers.
You mean you lost your initial legal action and your opposing party's experienced legal team, were successful in having their legal costs awarded against you, for you to pay?

It sounds like you are terrible at basic legal work, despite your hilarious claims .
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Old 15th December 2020, 04:28 PM   #2489
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Originally Posted by Spektator View Post
Q: "Is PartSkeptic a false prophet?"

Magic 8-Ball reply: "It is decidedly so."

The Magic 8-Ball knows all and tells all.
I think Partsektpics's powers of prediction are shown by his support of Trump back in 2016 because Trump would be more "even handed" and less pro Isreali then previous presidents.....
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Old 15th December 2020, 10:19 PM   #2490
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Regrettably too many people think that, because they believe there is no God or afterlife, then they have no restrictions on what they can get away with.
No, religious people do not have a monopoly on moral virtue. What's to be said about people who do the right thing only because they fear punishment? Is that really a good reason? I know you claim to be an expert philosopher, but you don't seem to have a very sophisticated understanding of the reasons behind right conduct.

Quote:
How many billionaires who made their money using unethical means are worried about karmic payback?
People who behave unethically or illegally don't seem bothered by the ordinary threats of payback or retribution to the extent of repairing their ways. Why would they change their behavior based on some nebulous fear of supernatural retribution for which there is no evidence?

Now if you had some evidence that gods exist, that there is an afterlife, and that a judgment will ensue based on measuring our behavior against some objective standard, then you'd have a point. But religious people never have any of that. All they have are delusions of grandeur backed up by empty threats.

Quote:
Would it help if they had some fear of divine retribution? I sure think so.
I don't. Regrettably too many people believe themselves to be so godly that they believe they have special privilege, and that whatever they do must be sanctioned by the god whose favor they believe they enjoy.

I live in a very religious place, filled with people who pride themselves on imposing high moral standards. It's also rife with cronyism, shady business practices, rudeness, abuse. And without fail, a couple times a year, we see stories of criminal behavior -- some of it horrific -- from these people, often from those who whole positions of authority and trust in the prevailing religion. The point is the justification they offer: they believed themselves to be so just and holy that the ordinary rules didn't apply to them.

The sociopathy you refer to doesn't respect religious boundaries. It's in the nature of those people to do what they do. Adding religion to it just gives them one more thing to manipulate to their advantage. They aren't going to suddenly stop being who they are because you tell them a fairy tale.

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I think that the spiritual change coming will be helpful in achieving global common sense to take care of the planet.
I disagree. Trying to get everyone to join your religion has never been a recipe for achieving consensus. Quite the opposite.

Quote:
Only it is clear to me that people have no ability to imagine how bad it could be. The plagues of the past are just pictures in a book.
I guarantee that professional epidemiologists and other scientists can imagine how bad it can be. This is why we rely on them to suggest ways to prepare.

What I have a hard time figuring out is why you cannot imagine how good things can be. Self-proclaimed prophets are always so gloomy. What is the seemingly inevitable connection between claims to prophecy and end-of-the-world fantasies?

Quote:
For example, if Covid is unstoppable...
I see no evidence that coronavirus is unstoppable. In fact, in less than a year we've developed not just one but three likely effective vaccines.

Quote:
[M]aybe nations have to accept that and not spend billions on medical treatment while people starve from having no income.
Why is this phrased as an either-or proposition? People aren't starving because we're trying to develop a cure for a disease.

Quote:
Why not set up hospices where people can be cared for, and their suffering relieved while their immune system battles the virus? Let nature take its course.
Your vision of the future is just to stand back and watch people suffer and die unnecessarily? No, thank you.
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Old 15th December 2020, 10:34 PM   #2491
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Let me hear your explanation for why "dumb" matter/energy has the attributes for intelligence life (humankind) to emerge? Chance? Hardly.

I donít need to imagine a purpose for the universe.
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Old 16th December 2020, 05:31 AM   #2492
Cosmic Yak
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Another example. My uncle went to the USA in November 2019 to visit his daughter. They tried twice to get a US visa and twice they were rejected. He is 91 and his wife passed away in May 2019. He had to return, but Covid stopped that. They, and the family, prayed hard he would get a visa. They were disappointed it did not happen.

Then he needed an operation to remove a skin cancer. Complications with his heart happened and he needed extensive medical care and still does. The bills were $300,000 and rising and his daughter could not afford them. They applied for a charitable grant from the US. He got it. All past and future expenses paid, and a 1 year visa. Had he got the visa that they applied for, they would have had some serious medical bills.

They are convinced that God did not help with the original visa because God could see what was coming. The whole extended family feels that God truly blessed them.
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Regrettably too many people think that, because they believe there is no God or afterlife, then they have no restrictions on what they can get away with. How many billionaires who made their money using unethical means are worried about karmic payback?

Would it help if they had some fear of divine retribution? I sure think so. And I think when the die-off and collapse gets really bad, then money and power will not give them the comfort they want.



I am at the point when one has to think about adjusting to the "new normal". For example, if Covid is unstoppable, maybe nations have to accept that and not spend billions on medical treatment while people starve from having no income. Why not set up hospices where people can be cared for, and their suffering relieved while their immune system battles the virus? Let nature take its course.
I am, of course, wondering why you think money won't help with problems, when you said before that your god fixed a grant application so your uncle could get money, which apparently did help him.
I'm also wondering why you didn't advise your uncle to go into a hospice, so you could watch nature take its course with his cancer?
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Old 17th December 2020, 05:46 PM   #2493
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
I am, of course, wondering why you think money won't help with problems, when you said before that your god fixed a grant application so your uncle could get money, which apparently did help him.
I'm also wondering why you didn't advise your uncle to go into a hospice, so you could watch nature take its course with his cancer?

To each his own. That sort of advice has to be very carefully given or not given at all. It started with a simple skin cancer that was supposed to be a simple operation. Who would advise that one does nothing?

Complications set in. The decision making needed to be taken by a loving daughter who was not about to "abandon" their father.

In my case, I have said quite plainly that if I do not want excessive care and expense. And I am 72 not 92. I am okay with nature taking its course. That was what my late wife and I decided before she fell ill. And that is what we did. It turned out that had she gone for massive conventional intervention it would have failed because they did not know of the underlying histoplasmosis infection. All her money would have gone. And I know of such cases.

So, in her case it worked out. It was her time.
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Old 17th December 2020, 05:50 PM   #2494
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
I donít need to imagine a purpose for the universe.

That is a debate stopper. Why are you on this forum?

I thought it was for thinking people who seek truth and meaning to their lives. You are doing what atheists accuse believers of doing - accepting the status quo without question.
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Old 17th December 2020, 05:58 PM   #2495
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
You mean you lost your initial legal action and your opposing party's experienced legal team, were successful in having their legal costs awarded against you, for you to pay?

It sounds like you are terrible at basic legal work, despite your hilarious claims .

Wake up to the fact that many legal systems are corrupt. This corruption is why God is going to cause a great die-off and collapse the system.

I was naive in that I thought a clear factual case properly presented would get justice and that I could appeal to the ConCourt if I got a "bad judge." I was wrong. The power of the Telcom industry goes all the was to the top. They are all bad.

I did succeed in having their R250,000 cost (ridiculous for a simple half hour application) claim thrown out entirely because they thought they were dealing with a someone who did not know the law. The huge law firm for the Telco changed their name 9 months ago because they were associated with huge corruption scandals.
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Old 17th December 2020, 06:06 PM   #2496
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Meh, many adults still believe the fantasies taught to them as kids in Sunday school.

You call it a fantasy. You are a denier of facts.

I met a climate change denier who is intelligent and sincere. But he wants to believe it will not happen. So he believes Tony Heller who make his arguments sound great and very scientific.

You refuse to accept that God might be the correct explanation (with the Infinite Intelligence who created God) to the cause of the Universe. Your arguments against my hypothesis change to suit your position. They are inconsistent, which is the very claim you make about organized religion.

You set God up as your own version, a straw man, that you then tear down. I can see the faults in such an argument. Santa Claus and God are false comparisons because of the logic and evidence for God. Show me any evidence for Santa Claus that is not a clear and deliberate plant by adults to entertain children.
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Old 17th December 2020, 06:18 PM   #2497
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
That is a debate stopper. Why are you on this forum?

I thought it was for thinking people who seek truth and meaning to their lives. You are doing what atheists accuse believers of doing - accepting the status quo without question.
Are you serious? You don't think it's a little presumptuous (to say the least) to at least imply that only people who need to find (or imagine) a purpose to the universe are "thinking people who seek truth and meaning to their live"? You are doing what atheists really do accuse some believers are doing- demanding that the atheist accept the believer's status quo without question as a basis for debate. That is a real debate stopper, to be unable to even imagine that your idea of "life's meaning" might not be someone else's, and that that difference is enough by itself to exclude someone from your arrogant definition of "thinking people."

I've been saying for a while in the Politics threads that a basic, even definitional, requirement for a workable democracy is the willingness of all parties to accept the possibility of loss in a fair election- that the fairness not be defined only in terms of their party's winning. Same thing here- if you can't accept the idea that people are going to think differently than you on some very basic questions, you have no business telling them that they are the ones stopping the debate- you haven't met the first requirement of fair and honest debate, which is the acceptance of more sides than just yours.
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Old 17th December 2020, 06:24 PM   #2498
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Got any evidence for a god? Any god? Of course not. Got any evidence for an afterlife? Any afterlife at all? Of course you don't.

(snip)


Wow. death camps. You are aware that has happened before, right?

Yes I have evidence for God and so do many others. First I have personal experience that can only be explained by God. Second, I see the benefits to living a moral life according to the wishes of the Christian/Islamic God. Thirdly, it is explains the origin of the universe as no scientific explanation can. I could go on.

You are free to be a denier.

As for death camps, that is another distortion based on fear. You have a right to such fear given the sad state of morality in the world. If the world was more God-loving and God-fearing, then one would not fear the abuse of the concept of hospices.

All the Jewish people I saw at the end of their life feared dying. Most were atheists for a start (God deniers) and also believed (as per the Jewish faith) that there is no afterlife. This is not so with Christians who for the most part do not fear dying. Most would prefer to live on, but accept it when the end comes. These are simple facts that most Jews would not deny. It is not an antisemitic statement but people on this forum are experts at twisting any constructive criticism into something nasty. It is not nasty. It is honesty, and sometimes honesty can be painful to accept.

I have said that the update for conventional religions is necessary, and this is one area that the Jewish religion could change. Their massive influence in society is a problem in this regard. It will be interesting to see how the world deals with a God driven die-off. Hospitals and countries will NOT cope with the number that will die. Change will be forced upon them.
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Old 17th December 2020, 06:28 PM   #2499
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I was naive in that I thought a clear factual case properly presented would get justice and that I could appeal to the ConCourt if I got a "bad judge." I was wrong. The power of the Telcom industry goes all the was to the top. They are all bad.
Except that we've seen your "facts." You lost your case because it was a concoction of evidence-free conspiracy theories and pseudoscience.
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Old 17th December 2020, 06:37 PM   #2500
JayUtah
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Yes I have evidence for God and so do many others.
No, you don't. You have special pleading and question-begging that you demand we accept in place of evidence.

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First I have personal experience that can only be explained by God.
Not evidence, and not a proper deduction. You've had experiences that you could not otherwise explain, so you speculated that some god must have done it.

Quote:
Second, I see the benefits to living a moral life according to the wishes of the Christian/Islamic God.
Again, the religious don't have a monopoly on moral virtue, despite their fervent belief that they do. Many atheists too enjoy the natural benefits of living ethically, without having to resort to speculating about the supernatural. Again, despite your claims to be an expert philosopher, you can't seem to get past pidgin ethics.

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Thirdly, it is explains the origin of the universe as no scientific explanation can.
No, it doesn't. First, you don't understand the science. We've proven that time after time in this forum. You don't care to be taught the science. Second, your "explanation" is purely circular reasoning. Speculating the existence something that fills what you think are the cracks does not prove that such a thing exists.

Quote:
I could go on.
And I'm sure you will, but you don't see to have the faintest clue what constitutes actual evidence.

Quote:
You are free to be a denier.
I am free to reject your begged questions.

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If the world was more God-loving and God-fearing, then one would not fear the abuse of the concept of hospices.
Gibberish.

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All the Jewish people...
Try to keep your anti-Semitism in check. It's disgusting.
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Old 17th December 2020, 06:37 PM   #2501
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Are you serious? You don't think it's a little presumptuous (to say the least) to at least imply that only people who need to find (or imagine) a purpose to the universe are "thinking people who seek truth and meaning to their live"? You are doing what atheists really do accuse some believers are doing- demanding that the atheist accept the believer's status quo without question as a basis for debate. That is a real debate stopper, to be unable to even imagine that your idea of "life's meaning" might not be someone else's, and that that difference is enough by itself to exclude someone from your arrogant definition of "thinking people."

I've been saying for a while in the Politics threads that a basic, even definitional, requirement for a workable democracy is the willingness of all parties to accept the possibility of loss in a fair election- that the fairness not be defined only in terms of their party's winning. Same thing here- if you can't accept the idea that people are going to think differently than you on some very basic questions, you have no business telling them that they are the ones stopping the debate- you haven't met the first requirement of fair and honest debate, which is the acceptance of more sides than just yours.

Sorry but his statement IS a debate stopper. He refuses to deal with the question I posed. Instead of thinking differently to me he chooses not to think at all.

I think you need to review the question I posed. It is not honest to say that he does not need an explanation for the origin of the universe. Humankind has pondered this question for millennia.

This is a crucial point that atheists use an escape route. Usually they phrase it as "It just is" and try to move to areas that they can debate.

Some at least say "Science does not know or even have a clue, and I since I only accept scientific proof for any idea, I do not know and am not prepared to offer my own hypothesis."

Both of these also end the debate. Why take part? The answer is that they want argue on grounds that they know they can win. What is your response to my question?

I have given a reasoned explanation for my viewpoint and am not asking people to simply agree with me.
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Old 17th December 2020, 06:44 PM   #2502
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Originally Posted by Spektator View Post
Q: "Is PartSkeptic a false prophet?"

Magic 8-Ball reply: "It is decidedly so."

The Magic 8-Ball knows all and tells all.

The problem is that we all know that the eight ball is a mechanical device giving random answers.

If the randomness is to be influenced by spirit then spirit needs a reason to do so. Since you do not believe in spirit and want the answer you got (did you actually do it?) then it is doubtful that you got the correct answer.

Now if I did it, then maybe I would get a positive answer.

Now who is the false prophet?
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Old 17th December 2020, 06:44 PM   #2503
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
You refuse to accept that God might be the correct explanation (with the Infinite Intelligence who created God) to the cause of the Universe.
Correct. We refuse to accept a proposition that is not accompanied by testable evidence. "God" and "Infinite Intelligence" are just two words for basically the same thing, for which you have no evidence. The fact that you need to keep deploying profound-sounding names for ever-more-distant speculative entities is the evidence that your theory has no explanatory power.

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Show me any evidence for Santa Claus that is not a clear and deliberate plant by adults to entertain children.
I did.
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Old 17th December 2020, 06:50 PM   #2504
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Yet believers always refuse to explain how something FAR more complex, a god, can appear without any cause.

Simple choice and not complex at all.

Either dumb matter had inherent attributes to form intelligence or intelligence was the prime cause to begin with.

You are saying that this incredible complex physical universe appeared because dumb matter appeared without any cause. I explained that God appeared because an intelligent entity was the prime cause and that we are all an illusion.

Use some logic. We are talking probabilities. Which is more probable?
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Old 17th December 2020, 06:52 PM   #2505
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
He refuses to deal with the question I posed.
The question you posed was merely a distraction from the question you couldn't answer. You got stumped, so you threw out an old chestnut.

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Instead of thinking differently to me he chooses not to think at all.
He is thinking differently from you in the sense that he does not preconceive what you preconceive. Therefore he doesn't let you sneak in the existence of a creator as an axiom.

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It is not honest to say that he does not need an explanation for the origin of the universe. Humankind has pondered this question for millennia.
There are two questions here, the origin of the universe and the purpose of the universe. Religious people have a nasty habit of conflating the two. There is no observable purpose to the universe. Its mere existence doesn't raise that question; existence need not be purposeful existence. But the conflation of those concepts allows religionists to raise the issue of a conscience that can contemplate a purpose. Atheists rightly don't conjure that up.

The origin of the universe is indeed a subject of considerable investigation and imagination. Science acknowledges that it is likely impossible to gather evidence that would allow us to test hypothesis for how it arose. Religionists don't even care about such a test. They simply declare that it was magically created by a magical, unknown being and then congratulate themselves for being so clever.

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I have given a reasoned explanation for my viewpoint and am not asking people to simply agree with me.
Yes, you really are.
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Old 17th December 2020, 06:56 PM   #2506
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Either dumb matter had inherent attributes to form intelligence...
Straw man. Asked and answered.

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...or intelligence was the prime cause to begin with.
Double standard. You require your critics to demonstrate that the "intelligence" you read into their theory has to have a demonstrable origin. But your theory just allows "intelligence" to exist ab initio.

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I explained that God appeared because an intelligent entity was the prime cause and that we are all an illusion.
And that just shifts the mystery to "an intelligent entity." Making up new concepts to cover the holes in yesterday's speculation doesn't explain a thing.

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Use some logic. We are talking probabilities. Which is more probable?
The explanation that requires the fewest unknowns. And since you can't correctly name the unknowns in the theory you're trying to dispel, you aren't a good judge of the probability. Your theory requires an endless string of gods and intelligences and entities who supply no testable evidence. They easily fail the test of parsimony.
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Old 17th December 2020, 06:58 PM   #2507
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Wow, an actual, specific, verifiable prediction. With a timeframe short enough for a hit to be reasonably impressive, despite the age of the man in question.

Do you want me to add it to my list? Or start a new one?

Your list is contrived and distorted. But you will do it anyway.

I wanted to add that one should avoid predicting death (or terrible personal tragedy). It is the reason the cards refuse to give an answer.

I am taking a real punt here and only because it has become public speculation. If I am wrong, I am wrong. My wife has pointed out to me that although I get the major predictions right, I am often wrong in trying to figure out what the consequences would be.

The odds are not in favor of my prediction and yes it is specific and short enough. Is there anyone giving odds? Or is it also considered too bad taste?
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Old 17th December 2020, 07:00 PM   #2508
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Wake up to the fact that many legal systems are corrupt. This corruption is why God is going to cause a great die-off and collapse the system.
You mean your "God" is punishing you for lying and God is using the legal system to do so, against you.
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Old 17th December 2020, 07:01 PM   #2509
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Sorry but his statement IS a debate stopper. He refuses to deal with the question I posed. Instead of thinking differently to me he chooses not to think at all.

I think you need to review the question I posed. It is not honest to say that he does not need an explanation for the origin of the universe. Humankind has pondered this question for millennia.

This is a crucial point that atheists use an escape route. Usually they phrase it as "It just is" and try to move to areas that they can debate.

Some at least say "Science does not know or even have a clue, and I since I only accept scientific proof for any idea, I do not know and am not prepared to offer my own hypothesis."

Both of these also end the debate. Why take part? The answer is that they want argue on grounds that they know they can win. What is your response to my question?

I have given a reasoned explanation for my viewpoint and am not asking people to simply agree with me.

Great, let's do that-

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Let me hear your explanation for why "dumb" matter/energy has the attributes for intelligence life (humankind) to emerge? Chance? Hardly.
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
I don’t need to imagine a purpose for the universe.
My highlight in your question. It's a perfectly on-point response to a "why" question to say that there may not be one- this is not "an escape route," it's an answer. That you don't like it because it doesn't make sense in your terms doesn't end the debate, it requires you to do more to uphold your end of it than to just sniff "hardly" at what you can't accept, or even, apparently, imagine- that is ending the debate and refusing to think.

But you do you- keep trying to center the debate around only the areas you can debate.
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Old 17th December 2020, 07:03 PM   #2510
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The military will use anything that harms as a weapon. Emfs harm people but like tobacco it typically does the damage over decades. One could not fight a conventional war by air dropping tons of cigarettes on the enemy.

https://theconversation.com/scientis...ns-work-151730
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Old 17th December 2020, 07:06 PM   #2511
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Santa Claus and God are false comparisons
That's right Santa Claus is based on a real identifiable person who helped people. Children love him.

God is a totally fictional character, from the middle-east who slaughtered all the innocent children in the flood story. Your God hates children.
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Old 17th December 2020, 07:08 PM   #2512
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Your list is contrived and distorted.
In what ways? Be specific.

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But you will do it anyway.
As well she should. You know this is a skeptics forum. You come here claiming to be a prophet of some kind. Why would you expect the response from the venue you have chosen to be anything besides a challenge to provide evidence for those claims? Stop complaining. If you want to be taken seriously here, either submit to the collection of evidence or concede the claim.

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I wanted to add that one should avoid predicting death (or terrible personal tragedy).
You're predicting the deaths of billions of people from coronavirus disease. How is that more acceptable than the testable prediction of some specific person's death?

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If I am wrong, I am wrong.
If you are wrong, will you consider that a hard failure in the context of your claim to be a prophet?

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The odds are not in favor of my prediction...
How do you know that?
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Old 17th December 2020, 07:08 PM   #2513
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
The military will use anything that harms as a weapon.
Don't change the subject.
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Old 17th December 2020, 07:09 PM   #2514
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
The problem is that we all know that the eight ball is a mechanical device giving random answers.
So are your Tarot cards. You missed the joke making fun of you. .
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Old 17th December 2020, 07:15 PM   #2515
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
My highlight in your question. It's a perfectly on-point response to a "why" question to say that there may not be one- this is not "an escape route," it's an answer.
It's also acceptable to transpose the problem. If I pour concrete into a depression in the ground, the peculiar shape of the hardened result is not evidence that the hole was contrived to achieve it. It doesn't matter how remarkable I find the chunk of concrete in retrospect.

That the interactions of matter we see today form a harmonious, stable system in their environment is evidence only of harmony and stability amid disregarded chaos, not evidence of a contrivance.
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Old 17th December 2020, 07:17 PM   #2516
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
So are your Tarot cards. You missed the joke making fun of you. .
Indeed, the point of Tarot is that the mundane mechanics of the cards are supposed to be manipulated in a supernatural way to give a card that contains a specific message to fit the situation, subject to the interpretation of the reader. There's no reason not to suppose that a Magic Eight Ball cannot similarly be manipulated by "the spirits" to produce a result.
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Old 17th December 2020, 07:17 PM   #2517
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I see the benefits to living a moral life according to the wishes of the Christian/Islamic God.
You, like your God would keep killing all the innocent children in the flood, to teach them whose boss?


Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
It will be interesting to see how the world deals with a God driven die-off. Change will be forced upon them.
So again, you and your God want as many innocent people to die as possible... AGAIN.....just to show them whose boss?

You and God are not nice people are you? You wan't to keep killing innocent people.
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Old 17th December 2020, 11:11 PM   #2518
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I keep giving you guys personal anecdotes about the supernatural which, if it exists, is pretty much support for the existence of God. And do not accuse me of lying. No brain farts here either.

Here is another one. Those who are bored can move on and write TLDR.


Yesterday a friend asked my wife if he could borrow our Toyota pickup to collect some cabinets from his guest house and take them home. My wife was a little reluctant to lend him the Kia mini-truck from her business because the business changes hands on 1 January 2021. The friend assured her that the pick-up was big enough.

I was in the process of fixing the turn signals on the pick-up. They would turn on the hazards now and then without the hazards flashing. An obvious fault. The pickup is old (1993) and she was worried that he would get stopped by the police. When he told us that the police always set up a road block close to the guest house she was more worried. So despite my commitments I said I would drive and help him.

Having fixed the turn signals I drove to his house to pick him up. He was going to take his car because he felt he had to put the shelves and drawers in his car. Halfway there, I could not put the pickup into 4th gear. Then it was 3rd gear that would not operate. I struggled to get it into 2nd gear and drove the rest of the way to his house.

If any of you are following my tales you will recall that I have only once ever not reached my destination as a result of the many car faults that resulted in a breakdown.

I told our friend that we must go to the factory to get the Kia mini-truck. I was supposed to have disconnected the batteries of it and the forklift we block the roller door with for the holidays. The foreman had locked his tools away and I did not have mine. A minor plus.

We get to the guest house, and the three cabinets just fit on the back. With a few millimeters on the side and 100 mm at the back. The pick-up would have been totally unsuitable and we would have had to get the mini-truck anyway. And it was quite a journey. I now arrange to tow the pickup home, but decide to see if I can drive it in 2nd gear.

I inspect the pickup clutch. There is hydraulic fluid in it, and I can see the mechanism operating fully. Strange. So with our friend following me I drive it home. No problems with the clutch at all!

I will do some more inspection but I wonder what could have happened. It was serendipitous.

So here is my "luck" which I have an over-abundance of. And just in time to use it to respond to those who say there is no evidence of God. How does science explain such unexplainable events? It cannot. Such events support the existence of intelligent supernatural entities, and God is one of them.
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Old 17th December 2020, 11:23 PM   #2519
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
You, like your God would keep killing all the innocent children in the flood, to teach them whose boss?



So again, you and your God want as many innocent people to die as possible... AGAIN.....just to show them whose boss?

You and God are not nice people are you? You wan't to keep killing innocent people.

Just how innocent are people? I am finding a great deal of evil and corruption in the current society. Time for a clean-up in my opinion. If I die as a result of collateral damage then so be it.

And if souls are reincarnated, as I claim happens, then where is the immorality?

The standard of "innocent children" and "innocent people" is an arbitrary human standard. Why do you use it to object to God? Why apply an anthropomorphic standard to God?

The Infinite Intelligent that is the prime cause is amoral. It created God and Satan. So evil can be punished. If society as a whole has not reigned in the bad guys then they have some culpability.

You may be personally appalled by some of Gods actions. That is not a proof that he does not exist. It is also not proof that God does not act for the long-term good of man - despite some short-term suffering.
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Old 17th December 2020, 11:30 PM   #2520
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Don't change the subject.

This is a multi-subject thread. Or do you set the rules?

The site come up yesterday. It indicates that the military are aware of the harm that microwaves can do. After initial publications, most military scientists keep quiet about it.

Not the phrasing:
"A committee of 19 experts in medicine and other fields concluded that directed, pulsed radiofrequency energy is the “most plausible mechanism” to explain the illness, dubbed Havana syndrome."

Once more, there is no other explanation. If we did not have the microwave explanation we would have to start considering "voodoo curses".
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