[Continuation] The One Covid-19 Science and Medicine Thread Part 2 - Page 81

marting · 27th November 2020, 03:57 PM

COVID-19 Aerosolized Viral Loads, Environment, Ventilation, Masks, Exposure Time, Severity, And Immune Response: A Pragmatic Guide Of Estimates

https://icite.od.nih.gov/covid19/sea...10.03.20206110

It can be shown that over 94% of COVID-19 superspreading events occurred in limited ventilation areas suggesting that aerosolized transmission is a strong contributor to COVID-19 infections. This study helps answer the questions “How long may a person safely remain within various environments” and “What exposure levels could result in immunity without becoming ill via asymptomatic graduated inoculation”. Understanding how COVID-19 infection likelihood, symptom severity, and immune response correlate to aerosolized viral load concentration exposure levels and time durations could enable optimized Non-Pharmaceutical Interventions (NPI) that reduce severe case counts and improve at-large epidemiologic responses.

fromdownunder · 27th November 2020, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Australia is doing a great job fighting thr Virus,but right now they are getting a break countries in the Northern Hemisphere don't have" It's summer down there. Current surge is largely due to the coming of cold weather.

But Australia and New Zealand have just been through Winter after spikes in cases in March/April and outside of Victoria there was almost no Community Transmission in Winter in either country. We just got to Spring and towards Summer having already done the hard yards which, as far as I can tell, nobody in Europe or the Americas ever really did. Well, not to the extent necessary anyway.

Most European countries started opening up when they were still getting hundreds of cases per day. The USA never got below 23,000. That was simply an invitation to the Virus to go forth and multiply.

Norm

Pixel42 · 27th November 2020, 11:17 PM

Covid: Free Vitamin D pills for 2.5 million vulnerable in England

TellyKNeasuss · 27th November 2020, 11:36 PM

I've strayed away from this forum for a few weeks, so I don't know if this has been discussed: a company in Singapore has developed a breathalyzer test that they claim gives results that are more than 90% accurate in a minute:

Quote:

The company’s test uses mass spectrometry to analyze the thousands of volatile organic compounds that people exhale with every breath, to establish a specific signal among those with an active coronavirus infection. Using a machine learning algorithm, this generates a “bio-fingerprint of COVID-19,” said co-founder and CEO Jia Zhunan.

Quote:

The NUS spinout said its ongoing pilot study of 180 people, conducted by the city-state’s National Centre for Infectious Diseases, showed an overall sensitivity of 93% and a specificity of 95%.

https://www.fiercebiotech.com/medtec...athalyzer-test

Tero · 28th November 2020, 07:13 AM

I have not got around to finding out all the details or discussing the mechanisms, but someone on another forum asked me "how the new vaccines work?" and I hastily put this summary of the cells and vaccines together. Do I need to correct this for those few people?

Quote:

The mRNA is delivered to the blood stream and reaches circulating immune cells, that then manufacture the viral protein.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine

The viral like particles infect the number of cells in circulation that they can. They do not produce more virus or more of themselves. Once the vaccine is gone, the new immune cells produced in the bone marrow
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_blood_cell
do not get the vaccine induced spike protein.

The immune system has to learn to respond to this spike protein in the time that the vaccine particles are active and functional.

Capsid · 28th November 2020, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by Tero

I have not got around to finding out all the details or discussing the mechanisms, but someone on another forum asked me "how the new vaccines work?" and I hastily put this summary of the cells and vaccines together. Do I need to correct this for those few people?

The Wiki text is not exactly correct. The vaccine is injected into muscle not the bloodstream. In the muscle, antigen presenting cells take up the vaccine and traffic via the lymphatic system to local lymph nodes where they present antigen to B and T cells.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Puppycow · 28th November 2020, 08:24 AM

Outcomes Related to COVID-19 Treated With Hydroxychloroquine Among Inpatients With Symptomatic Disease - ORCHID

Quote:

Study Design

Randomized
Parallel
Blinded
Placebo

No difference in outcomes found.

Tero · 28th November 2020, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Capsid

The Wiki text is not exactly correct. The vaccine is injected into muscle not the bloodstream. In the muscle, antigen presenting cells take up the vaccine and traffic via the lymphatic system to local lymph nodes where they present antigen to B and T cells.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OK. Viruses spread through the body by blood, though?

Rolfe · 28th November 2020, 12:35 PM

Not necessarily, or not entirely.

Capsid · 28th November 2020, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Tero

OK. Viruses spread through the body by blood, though?

Well SARS-COV-2 is viraemic in less than 5% of infected people and polio is enteric and flu etc. So no.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

marting · 28th November 2020, 01:52 PM

What is the mechanism that results in so much SARS-CoV-2 showing up in sewage?

Bob001 · 28th November 2020, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by marting

What is the mechanism that results in so much SARS-CoV-2 showing up in sewage?

Why wouldn't it? Hasn't human waste always been a primary mechanism of spread for all kinds of infectious disease?

Roger Ramjets · 28th November 2020, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Outcomes Related to COVID-19 Treated With Hydroxychloroquine Among Inpatients With Symptomatic Disease - ORCHID

No difference in outcomes found.

Quelle surprise.

Misguided Use of Hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 The Infusion of Politics Into Science

Quote:

Both patients and clinicians were desperate.

Enter hydroxychloroquine. On March 16, 2020, a study on use of hydroxychloroquine in patients with SARS-CoV-2 was “published” (online via YouTube) by Gautret et al6 (followed 4 days later as a preprint in the International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents) and purportedly demonstrated “a rapid and effective speeding up of their healing process, and a sharp decrease in the amount of time they remained contagious.”. This open-label, nonrandomized study included only 36 hospitalized patients...

However, the politicization of the treatment was a more important factor in promoting interest in use of this drug. On April 4, the US president, “speaking on gut instinct,” promoted the drug as a potential treatment and authorized the US government to purchase and stockpile 29 million pills of hydroxychloroquine for use by patients with COVID-19...

But science doesn't let politics steamroll over it that easily...

Quote:

US health officials, such as members of the Coronavirus Task Force, leaders from the National Institutes of Health, and officers of physician organizations and societies, who resisted being forced to promote the politically motivated use of hydroxychloroquine were correct and should be recognized for their steadfast commitment to science...

The clear, unambiguous, and compelling lesson from the hydroxychloroquine story for the medical community and the public is that science and politics do not mix. Science, by definition, requires diligence and an honest assessment of findings; politics not so much. The number of articles in the peer-reviewed literature over the last several months that have consistently and convincingly demonstrated the lack of efficacy of a highly hyped “cure” for COVID-19 represent the consequence of the irresponsible infusion of politics into the world of scientific evidence and discourse.

lionking · 28th November 2020, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by marting

What is the mechanism that results in so much SARS-CoV-2 showing up in sewage?

Even with 30 days of zero infections in Victoria Australia, traces still show up in sewage in a couple of places. Our experts believe this is due to shedding from people who were infected weeks ago and there is no chance of infection.

marting · 28th November 2020, 11:24 PM

New review of 4 Ivermectin studies shows promise.

https://icite.od.nih.gov/covid19/sea...ordId=33227231

Abstract:
The current management of COVID-19 is mostly limited to general supportive care and symptomatic treatment. Ivermectin is a broad-spectrum anti-parasitic drug used widely for the treatment of onchocerciasis and lymphatic filariasis. Apart from its anti-parasitic effect it also exhibits antiviral activity against a number of viruses both in vitro and in vivo. Hence, we conducted this systematic review and meta-analysis to assess the currently available data on the therapeutic potential of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 as add on therapy. A total of 629 patients were included in the 4 studies and all were COVID-19 RT-PCR positive. Among them, 397 patients received ivermectin along with usual therapy. The random effect model showed the overall pooled OR to be 0.53 (95%CI: 0.29 to0.96) for the primary outcome (all-cause mortality) which was statistically significant (P=0.04). Similarly, the random effect model revealed that adding ivermectin led to significant clinical improvement compared to usual therapy (OR=1.98, 95% CI: 1.11 to 3.53, P=0.02). However, this should be inferred cautiously as the quality of evidence is very low. Currently, many clinical trials are on-going, and definitive evidence for repurposing this drug for COVID-19 patients will emerge only in the future.

Darat · 30th November 2020, 05:26 AM

Continuation thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...5#post13310175

Posted By:Darat

27th November 2020, 03:57 PM	#3201
marting Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,264	COVID-19 Aerosolized Viral Loads, Environment, Ventilation, Masks, Exposure Time, Severity, And Immune Response: A Pragmatic Guide Of Estimates https://icite.od.nih.gov/covid19/sea...10.03.20206110 It can be shown that over 94% of COVID-19 superspreading events occurred in limited ventilation areas suggesting that aerosolized transmission is a strong contributor to COVID-19 infections. This study helps answer the questions “How long may a person safely remain within various environments” and “What exposure levels could result in immunity without becoming ill via asymptomatic graduated inoculation”. Understanding how COVID-19 infection likelihood, symptom severity, and immune response correlate to aerosolized viral load concentration exposure levels and time durations could enable optimized Non-Pharmaceutical Interventions (NPI) that reduce severe case counts and improve at-large epidemiologic responses.
marting Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,264	__________________ Flying's easy. Walking on water, now that's cool.

27th November 2020, 10:09 PM	#3202
fromdownunder Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,720	Originally Posted by dudalb Australia is doing a great job fighting thr Virus,but right now they are getting a break countries in the Northern Hemisphere don't have" It's summer down there. Current surge is largely due to the coming of cold weather. But Australia and New Zealand have just been through Winter after spikes in cases in March/April and outside of Victoria there was almost no Community Transmission in Winter in either country. We just got to Spring and towards Summer having already done the hard yards which, as far as I can tell, nobody in Europe or the Americas ever really did. Well, not to the extent necessary anyway. Most European countries started opening up when they were still getting hundreds of cases per day. The USA never got below 23,000. That was simply an invitation to the Virus to go forth and multiply. Norm
	__________________ Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in Vain Last edited by fromdownunder; 27th November 2020 at 10:13 PM.

27th November 2020, 11:17 PM	#3203
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 13,176	Covid: Free Vitamin D pills for 2.5 million vulnerable in England
	__________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

27th November 2020, 11:36 PM	#3204
TellyKNeasuss Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,658	I've strayed away from this forum for a few weeks, so I don't know if this has been discussed: a company in Singapore has developed a breathalyzer test that they claim gives results that are more than 90% accurate in a minute: Quote: The company’s test uses mass spectrometry to analyze the thousands of volatile organic compounds that people exhale with every breath, to establish a specific signal among those with an active coronavirus infection. Using a machine learning algorithm, this generates a “bio-fingerprint of COVID-19,” said co-founder and CEO Jia Zhunan. Quote: The NUS spinout said its ongoing pilot study of 180 people, conducted by the city-state’s National Centre for Infectious Diseases, showed an overall sensitivity of 93% and a specificity of 95%. https://www.fiercebiotech.com/medtec...athalyzer-test
	__________________ "Facts are stupid things." Ronald Reagan

28th November 2020, 07:13 AM	#3205
Tero Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North American prairie Posts: 2,217	I have not got around to finding out all the details or discussing the mechanisms, but someone on another forum asked me "how the new vaccines work?" and I hastily put this summary of the cells and vaccines together. Do I need to correct this for those few people? Quote: The mRNA is delivered to the blood stream and reaches circulating immune cells, that then manufacture the viral protein. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine The viral like particles infect the number of cells in circulation that they can. They do not produce more virus or more of themselves. Once the vaccine is gone, the new immune cells produced in the bone marrow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_blood_cell do not get the vaccine induced spike protein. The immune system has to learn to respond to this spike protein in the time that the vaccine particles are active and functional.
	__________________ I've deleted the one blog link. You can find the humor blog by searching "the kari report blogspot." Politics blog: https://esapolitics.blogspot.com/

28th November 2020, 07:56 AM	#3206
Capsid Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,743	Originally Posted by Tero I have not got around to finding out all the details or discussing the mechanisms, but someone on another forum asked me "how the new vaccines work?" and I hastily put this summary of the cells and vaccines together. Do I need to correct this for those few people? The Wiki text is not exactly correct. The vaccine is injected into muscle not the bloodstream. In the muscle, antigen presenting cells take up the vaccine and traffic via the lymphatic system to local lymph nodes where they present antigen to B and T cells. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Capsid Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,743

28th November 2020, 08:24 AM	#3207
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 25,904	Outcomes Related to COVID-19 Treated With Hydroxychloroquine Among Inpatients With Symptomatic Disease - ORCHID Quote: Study Design Randomized Parallel Blinded Placebo No difference in outcomes found.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

28th November 2020, 12:31 PM	#3208
Tero Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North American prairie Posts: 2,217	Originally Posted by Capsid The Wiki text is not exactly correct. The vaccine is injected into muscle not the bloodstream. In the muscle, antigen presenting cells take up the vaccine and traffic via the lymphatic system to local lymph nodes where they present antigen to B and T cells. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk OK. Viruses spread through the body by blood, though?
	__________________ I've deleted the one blog link. You can find the humor blog by searching "the kari report blogspot." Politics blog: https://esapolitics.blogspot.com/

28th November 2020, 12:35 PM	#3209
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 47,235	Not necessarily, or not entirely.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

28th November 2020, 12:36 PM	#3210
Capsid Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,743	Originally Posted by Tero OK. Viruses spread through the body by blood, though? Well SARS-COV-2 is viraemic in less than 5% of infected people and polio is enteric and flu etc. So no. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Capsid Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,743

28th November 2020, 01:52 PM	#3211
marting Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,264	What is the mechanism that results in so much SARS-CoV-2 showing up in sewage?
marting Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,264	__________________ Flying's easy. Walking on water, now that's cool.

28th November 2020, 02:55 PM	#3212
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 13,018	Originally Posted by marting What is the mechanism that results in so much SARS-CoV-2 showing up in sewage? Why wouldn't it? Hasn't human waste always been a primary mechanism of spread for all kinds of infectious disease?

28th November 2020, 03:20 PM	#3213
Roger Ramjets Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,378	Originally Posted by Puppycow Outcomes Related to COVID-19 Treated With Hydroxychloroquine Among Inpatients With Symptomatic Disease - ORCHID No difference in outcomes found. Quelle surprise. Misguided Use of Hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 The Infusion of Politics Into Science Quote: Both patients and clinicians were desperate. Enter hydroxychloroquine. On March 16, 2020, a study on use of hydroxychloroquine in patients with SARS-CoV-2 was “published” (online via YouTube) by Gautret et al6 (followed 4 days later as a preprint in the International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents) and purportedly demonstrated “a rapid and effective speeding up of their healing process, and a sharp decrease in the amount of time they remained contagious.”. This open-label, nonrandomized study included only 36 hospitalized patients... However, the politicization of the treatment was a more important factor in promoting interest in use of this drug. On April 4, the US president, “speaking on gut instinct,” promoted the drug as a potential treatment and authorized the US government to purchase and stockpile 29 million pills of hydroxychloroquine for use by patients with COVID-19... But science doesn't let politics steamroll over it that easily... Quote: US health officials, such as members of the Coronavirus Task Force, leaders from the National Institutes of Health, and officers of physician organizations and societies, who resisted being forced to promote the politically motivated use of hydroxychloroquine were correct and should be recognized for their steadfast commitment to science... The clear, unambiguous, and compelling lesson from the hydroxychloroquine story for the medical community and the public is that science and politics do not mix. Science, by definition, requires diligence and an honest assessment of findings; politics not so much. The number of articles in the peer-reviewed literature over the last several months that have consistently and convincingly demonstrated the lack of efficacy of a highly hyped “cure” for COVID-19 represent the consequence of the irresponsible infusion of politics into the world of scientific evidence and discourse.
	__________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good. Last edited by Roger Ramjets; 28th November 2020 at 03:22 PM.

28th November 2020, 03:34 PM	#3214
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 47,178	Originally Posted by marting What is the mechanism that results in so much SARS-CoV-2 showing up in sewage? Even with 30 days of zero infections in Victoria Australia, traces still show up in sewage in a couple of places. Our experts believe this is due to shedding from people who were infected weeks ago and there is no chance of infection.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

28th November 2020, 11:24 PM	#3215
marting Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,264	New review of 4 Ivermectin studies shows promise. https://icite.od.nih.gov/covid19/sea...ordId=33227231 Abstract: The current management of COVID-19 is mostly limited to general supportive care and symptomatic treatment. Ivermectin is a broad-spectrum anti-parasitic drug used widely for the treatment of onchocerciasis and lymphatic filariasis. Apart from its anti-parasitic effect it also exhibits antiviral activity against a number of viruses both in vitro and in vivo. Hence, we conducted this systematic review and meta-analysis to assess the currently available data on the therapeutic potential of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 as add on therapy. A total of 629 patients were included in the 4 studies and all were COVID-19 RT-PCR positive. Among them, 397 patients received ivermectin along with usual therapy. The random effect model showed the overall pooled OR to be 0.53 (95%CI: 0.29 to0.96) for the primary outcome (all-cause mortality) which was statistically significant (P=0.04). Similarly, the random effect model revealed that adding ivermectin led to significant clinical improvement compared to usual therapy (OR=1.98, 95% CI: 1.11 to 3.53, P=0.02). However, this should be inferred cautiously as the quality of evidence is very low. Currently, many clinical trials are on-going, and definitive evidence for repurposing this drug for COVID-19 patients will emerge only in the future.
marting Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,264	__________________ Flying's easy. Walking on water, now that's cool.