IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Coronavirus

Closed Thread
Old 4th December 2020, 08:22 PM   #3081
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,573
In an interview Thursday with CNN's Jake Tapper, President-elect Joe Biden said he will ask "all Americans" to wear face masks during the first one hundred days of his presidency.
Quote:
The President-elect revealed the galvanizing, altruistic, first national rallying call of his administration in an exclusive CNN interview on Thursday with Vice President-elect Kamala Harris, previewing a sharp change of direction when he succeeds President Donald Trump. "Just 100 days to mask, not forever. One hundred days. And I think we'll see a significant reduction," Biden told CNN's Jake Tapper, implicitly acknowledging that the coronavirus could be raging at even more intense levels when he takes office than its current alarming spike.

There is a question, however, whether Biden's calls for national unity will resonate among people who didn't vote for him after Trump's relentless attacks on the legitimacy of his victory in the presidential election. But Biden's call to action may carry greater urgency now that the virus is taking hold in rural areas of the heartland with comparatively rudimentary health care systems, which escaped the first wave of infection that concentrated in many cities that tend to vote for Democrats. CNN link
Dr. Anthony Fauci, who is slated to become Biden's chief medical adviser, called the plan "a good idea."
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th December 2020, 04:49 PM   #3082
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 7,603
*sigh*

Gov. Lee signs order to send the National Guard to hospitals for COVID-19 surge

Tennessee.

Quote:
National Guard members will be used to

Perform authorized diagnostic testing for COVID-19 in health care settings, including but not to limited to hospitals, emergency departments, and alternate care sites (collectively, "Facilities")

Operate public or privately owned, permitted ambulance service vehicles with a licensed service.
Perform authorized nursing and other functions in Facilities
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.
Aridas is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th December 2020, 05:07 PM   #3083
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 50,583
Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Gee, maybe if Lee had mandated masks and few bans on gatherings, he would not have had to do this.
Hopefully that is your point, not that this specific order is wrong.

BTW I suspect that here in California, the warning orders for tthe California National Guard for this have already gone out.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th December 2020, 05:08 PM   #3084
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 50,583
BTW no masks or social distancing at that big Trump rally in Gerogia. Another Trump superspreader event on its way.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th December 2020, 06:11 PM   #3085
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 32,767
At his rally Trump tries to express sympathy for Covid victims but can't help but immediately transition into bragging about how he helped the vaccine process. Then he falsely claims "a lot of people already are vaccinated."
Captain_Swoop is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th December 2020, 06:18 PM   #3086
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,573
Dr. Anthony Fauci -- slated to become President Biden's chief medical advisor and to retain his position as director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) -- said in an interview yesterday with Newsweek, January will be "terrible."
Quote:
Fauci told Newsweek: "The reporting is not accurate for the next few days following a holiday. So what you see is an artificial dip in everything—in cases, in deaths. Usually around two weeks later you start to see the increase in cases, which are then followed subsequently by an increase in hospitalizations and followed by an increase in deaths...I hate to say that but it's the truth and the reality. I do see that happening."" Newsweek link
New cases, hospitalizations and deaths continue to rise at all-time high levels. Sometime between now and tomorrow morning the US will pass 15 million cases, barely five days after we passed 14 million. Polling shows most Americans 'get it.'' Pew found 71% of people polled believe the 'worst is yet to come.'
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Pew Majority believe worst to come.jpg (80.1 KB, 4 views)
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th December 2020, 06:47 PM   #3087
fromdownunder
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,720
Worldometers figures for the past two days show that the USA reported 34% of new infections on the entire planet each day:


208,000 of 620,000


237,000 of 686,000


I really can't...



Norm
__________________
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in Vain


fromdownunder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th December 2020, 06:52 PM   #3088
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 19,083
From Worldometer:
Quote:
United States
Coronavirus Cases:
14,983,425
Deaths:
287,825

New Cases:
208,790
New Deaths:
2,251
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th December 2020, 09:02 PM   #3089
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 7,603
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Gee, maybe if Lee had mandated masks and few bans on gatherings, he would not have had to do this.
Hopefully that is your point, not that this specific order is wrong.

BTW I suspect that here in California, the warning orders for tthe California National Guard for this have already gone out.
FWIW, the only points I had in mind when I posted that is that it really sucks that it's happening/there's good cause for it to happen and as a simple information update.
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.
Aridas is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 05:27 AM   #3090
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 14,874
1 out of 800 people in North Dakota dead of Covid-19 as of Dec4.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/on...-dakota-covid/

and one out of every 576 New Jerseyans.
__________________
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 08:20 AM   #3091
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,573
As a kind of legal buff -- -- I think one of the things I have learned is, in terms of law, public safety always has priority. One of the examples of this was a case involving a railroad involved in interstate transportation. New York City proposed certain restrictions on the operation of trains and the railroad company complained to the Interstate Commerce Commission. The railroad argued, as a regulated industry, only the Interstate Commerce Commission could make rules effecting operations. That the City of New York had no such power. That instead, if the city wanted restrictions it had to file a complaint with the ICC. A federal court eventually ruled, the city had taken action to restrict train movements, the switching of freight cars on city streets during certain hours, in order to safeguard public safety. That the city not only had the right but the duty to ensure that the health and the safety of the public was being protected. That obligation took priority over any other agency or law.

To make this relevant to this thread, this is one of the things that bugs me about people complaining that government has no right to make them stay home, wear a facemask, limit the size of gatherings, force businesses to curtail activities or close. Because of the pandemic these are public safety issues and government not only has the right to make the requirements, they have a duty to do so. Instead, a meaningful, possibly useful, argument would be, the restrictions go too far. That they're not effective enough to warrant the intrusion on individual rights to live as one wishes or to carry on normal business. That might be a hard argument to make, though. Instead I see constant comments on a local news blog that NY Governor Cuomo is a dictator and is acting like a tyrant.

Might as well argue you do have the right, under the first amendment, to yell fire in a crowded theater.
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 09:06 AM   #3092
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 25,541
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
As a kind of legal buff -- -- I think one of the things I have learned is, in terms of law, public safety always has priority. One of the examples of this was a case involving a railroad involved in interstate transportation. New York City proposed certain restrictions on the operation of trains and the railroad company complained to the Interstate Commerce Commission. The railroad argued, as a regulated industry, only the Interstate Commerce Commission could make rules effecting operations. That the City of New York had no such power. That instead, if the city wanted restrictions it had to file a complaint with the ICC. A federal court eventually ruled, the city had taken action to restrict train movements, the switching of freight cars on city streets during certain hours, in order to safeguard public safety. That the city not only had the right but the duty to ensure that the health and the safety of the public was being protected. That obligation took priority over any other agency or law.

To make this relevant to this thread, this is one of the things that bugs me about people complaining that government has no right to make them stay home, wear a facemask, limit the size of gatherings, force businesses to curtail activities or close. Because of the pandemic these are public safety issues and government not only has the right to make the requirements, they have a duty to do so. Instead, a meaningful, possibly useful, argument would be, the restrictions go too far. That they're not effective enough to warrant the intrusion on individual rights to live as one wishes or to carry on normal business. That might be a hard argument to make, though. Instead I see constant comments on a local news blog that NY Governor Cuomo is a dictator and is acting like a tyrant.

Might as well argue you do have the right, under the first amendment, to yell fire in a crowded theater.
Agreed on all counts, although with an asterisk.

As a legal buff, you will recognize the concept of "strict scrutiny". The laws and policies that restrict activity to limit the spread of pandemics sometimes threaten individual rights that are guaranteed under the Constitution. For example, telling people they cannot congregate in a church really is a restriction on the free exercise of religion. Over the centuries since the Constitution was written, it has been recognized that some restrictions on those guaranteed rights really are necessary, Constitution or no Constitution, so at some point the courts formulated a concept of "strict scrutiny" to determine whether or not such restrictions were allowable. When government infringes on those rights, it is incumbent on the government to justify that infringement using that standard. In other words, the government can't just arbitrarily say that this restriction is in the interest of public safety, it must make the case to a court that it really is a compelling interest of government, that the policy actually does protect that interest, and that no lesser protections would protect that interest.

All of those are possible with quarantine restrictions, but the safeguard should be honored, and it might be that some, specific, proposed restrictions might not meet that standard, in the opinion of the judges charged with making that evaluation.
__________________
Yes, yes. I know you are right. But would it hurt you to provide some information?
Meadmaker is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 10:07 AM   #3093
Delphic Oracle
Philosopher
 
Delphic Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 5,415
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Agreed on all counts, although with an asterisk.



As a legal buff, you will recognize the concept of "strict scrutiny". The laws and policies that restrict activity to limit the spread of pandemics sometimes threaten individual rights that are guaranteed under the Constitution. For example, telling people they cannot congregate in a church really is a restriction on the free exercise of religion. Over the centuries since the Constitution was written, it has been recognized that some restrictions on those guaranteed rights really are necessary, Constitution or no Constitution, so at some point the courts formulated a concept of "strict scrutiny" to determine whether or not such restrictions were allowable. When government infringes on those rights, it is incumbent on the government to justify that infringement using that standard. In other words, the government can't just arbitrarily say that this restriction is in the interest of public safety, it must make the case to a court that it really is a compelling interest of government, that the policy actually does protect that interest, and that no lesser protections would protect that interest.



All of those are possible with quarantine restrictions, but the safeguard should be honored, and it might be that some, specific, proposed restrictions might not meet that standard, in the opinion of the judges charged with making that evaluation.
There's some crossover in what you are both saying.

The first hurdle for "strict scrutiny" to clear is "legitimate interest." Public safety is one of those interests. Then we move on to "least restrictive means" to advance that interest.

I'm all for a discussion about how to achieve communal worship safely, to hear concerns about how the restrictions diminish the exercise. There can be a dialogue.

I won't stand for insistence that public safety is not enough to even have the discussion. Then the door is open to gatherings of communities not under the banner of an organized religion to make an "equal protection" complaint. (ETA: not saying anyone is taking that position, but it is out there)

I know of a handful of non-theocratic gatherings on Sundays of people who like the communal bonding, but don't "pray" or "worship" who would feel rightly like they are 2nd class to others because their gathering isn't a "church."
Delphic Oracle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 10:22 AM   #3094
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 25,541
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
There's some crossover in what you are both saying.

The first hurdle for "strict scrutiny" to clear is "legitimate interest." Public safety is one of those interests. Then we move on to "least restrictive means" to advance that interest.

I'm all for a discussion about how to achieve communal worship safely, to hear concerns about how the restrictions diminish the exercise. There can be a dialogue.

I won't stand for insistence that public safety is not enough to even have the discussion. Then the door is open to gatherings of communities not under the banner of an organized religion to make an "equal protection" complaint. (ETA: not saying anyone is taking that position, but it is out there)

I know of a handful of non-theocratic gatherings on Sundays of people who like the communal bonding, but don't "pray" or "worship" who would feel rightly like they are 2nd class to others because their gathering isn't a "church."
Agreed. Any infringement on the right of peaceable assembly should also be subject to the strict scrutiny standard, although a chess club and a church really aren't the same thing, but exactly where to draw the lines is why we have judges. (I use the chess club example because I had decided to start going to a chess club again. I went for the first time in the last week of February last year. Sigh.)

The real point is that simply declaring that something is a public health interest is not enough to give an executive (i.e. governor, mayor, president) blanket authority to do whatever he thinks is a good idea to protect public health. There needs to be judicial oversight of the way that authority is used to see that it does is not used to trample on constitutional rights.

Inevitably, there will be disagreement on particular aspects of policy and just exactly what constitutes a "compelling interest", which I think is the exact phrasing in the "strict scrutiny" precedent. That's ok. Sometimes, these things are a matter of opinion, and we have judges in order that they can judge. Meanwhile, the legislature can also intervene and impose limits on exactly what the executive branch can do. The system of checks and balances can still be applied, even to pandemic control.
__________________
Yes, yes. I know you are right. But would it hurt you to provide some information?
Meadmaker is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 11:31 AM   #3095
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 50,583
Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
FWIW, the only points I had in mind when I posted that is that it really sucks that it's happening/there's good cause for it to happen and as a simple information update.
Update: a Friend of mine who is an officer in the California National Guard got a warning order to get the medical personnel in his unit ready for deployment.
If you did not know, a "warning order"is a "heads up" order to make the preliminary actions for taking an action.The actual order to execute comes a bit later.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 11:43 AM   #3096
Bob001
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 13,017
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Agreed on all counts, although with an asterisk.

As a legal buff, you will recognize the concept of "strict scrutiny". The laws and policies that restrict activity to limit the spread of pandemics sometimes threaten individual rights that are guaranteed under the Constitution. For example, telling people they cannot congregate in a church really is a restriction on the free exercise of religion.
......

Freedom of religion does not mean privilege for religion. As long as religious events are treated like any others there is no restriction. For starters, what's a religion? There's no legal definition. If you exempt "religious services" from public health measures, what would prevent someone from calling their football games or Trump rallies "services?" Suppose such events began with a prayer? Would that get an exemption? Church buildings are subject to building codes, zoning regs, parking limits, health and safety standards, etc. If a permit is required to hold any public event on public lands, then it's required for a religious service, too. Etc., etc. If masks and social distancing and limited capacities are required for all other public events, then there is no justification to exempt religious services. It's downright bizarre that rejection of basic public health measures are treated as some kind of political statement. Most churches care (or used to) about the health of their communities.

The First Amendment protects your right to believe what you want -- or not. It doesn't allow you to impose your beliefs on others, especially to their detriment.

Last edited by Bob001; 6th December 2020 at 11:45 AM.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 11:50 AM   #3097
autumn1971
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,304
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I remember taking my 8th grade history class to see that movie as a field trip when we were studying the Civil War.
OT, but I remember seeing the memorial in Boston when I went there and literally having tears stream down my face.

A few years later my son watched the movie with me and were able to share a bit of a cry
__________________
'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."'
-The Bard
autumn1971 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 12:51 PM   #3098
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 7,603
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Update: a Friend of mine who is an officer in the California National Guard got a warning order to get the medical personnel in his unit ready for deployment.
If you did not know, a "warning order"is a "heads up" order to make the preliminary actions for taking an action.The actual order to execute comes a bit later.
Thank you for the update, much as that got a sigh out of me as well. We can hope that things won't cross the threshold for actual deployment, but... things just aren't looking good on that front.
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.
Aridas is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 01:04 PM   #3099
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 87,908
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Update: a Friend of mine who is an officer in the California National Guard got a warning order to get the medical personnel in his unit ready for deployment.
If you did not know, a "warning order"is a "heads up" order to make the preliminary actions for taking an action.The actual order to execute comes a bit later.
Does the governor not realize those medical people probably have medical jobs in between their volunteer work as part of the National Guard?

Rob Peter to pay Paul.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 01:05 PM   #3100
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 87,908
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Freedom of religion does not mean privilege for religion. ....
It does if you stack the SCOTUS with Evangelicals.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 01:25 PM   #3101
Matthew Best
Philosopher
 
Matthew Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 8,449
Giuliani has apparently tested positive for coronavirus. Presumably that will keep him out of court for a few days?
Matthew Best is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 01:29 PM   #3102
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 87,908
Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Giuliani has apparently tested positive for coronavirus. Presumably that will keep him out of court for a few days?
I'm surprised it took this long.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 01:36 PM   #3103
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 31,321
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
It's the new normal and it's obvious, trump could care less.
No. He could NOT care less. People make this mistake all the time and it really annoys me!
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 01:38 PM   #3104
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 25,541
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Freedom of religion does not mean privilege for religion.
Actually, it kinda does. Applying it gets complicated, but if my religious beliefs require me to do certain things, and under ordinary circumstances those things would be illegal, I would get a free pass on those unless the government passes the strict scrutiny test. And all those questions about where that line is: That's what judges are for, with some interaction between legislators and executives as well.

So: The government wants to forbid assemblies due to Covid.

However: Some assemblies are religious. The Constitution does not allow you to prohibit the free exercise of religion. To prohibit that takes a bit more justification.

So, first, the person wanting to hold a church service has to convince a judge that the assembly is an important part of you exercising your religious beliefs. If you do that, then the government has to demonstrate three things to the relevant judge:

1) The government has a compelling interest in prohibiting the assembly.

That should be easy enough. Saving lives is pretty compelling, and the danger to people who aren't even in the assembly makes it more compelling.

2) The prohibition on assemblies will actually further the government's compelling interest.

That should be easy enough for typical church scenarios. People standing close together and singing has been shown to be a really easy way to spread the virus. It would surely slow the spread if you didn't do that.

3) There isn't anything less that we could do that would still have the desired effect.

Now we get into a tricky spot, depending on what has been banned. If churches promised to apply social distancing, masks, and similar measures, then that ought to be as good or almost as good as banning the church service completely. So, most states that have restricted religious services have actually said that they would be allowed, as long as the number of attendees was limited, and the participants wore masks.

Some people might agree or disagree with those restrictions. Some people want more restrictions. Some people want less. They can make their case to a judge, and let the judge decide. That's their job.
__________________
Yes, yes. I know you are right. But would it hurt you to provide some information?
Meadmaker is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 01:57 PM   #3105
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 32,767
Trump Tweets

@RudyGiuliani, by far the greatest mayor in the history of NYC, and who has been working tirelessly exposing the most corrupt election (by far!) in the history of the USA, has tested positive for the China Virus. Get better soon Rudy, we will carry on!!!
Captain_Swoop is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 02:05 PM   #3106
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,565
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Actually, it kinda does. Applying it gets complicated, but if my religious beliefs require me to do certain things, and under ordinary circumstances those things would be illegal, I would get a free pass on those unless the government passes the strict scrutiny test.
Which is beyond asinine.
__________________
Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question."
Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..."
Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 02:10 PM   #3107
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 25,541
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Which is beyond asinine.
Well, fortunately it isn't just religion. It's any protected constitutional right.
__________________
Yes, yes. I know you are right. But would it hurt you to provide some information?
Meadmaker is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 02:12 PM   #3108
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,565
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Well, fortunately it isn't just religion. It's any protected constitutional right.
Horse ****. It's a protected right for big religions with political support.
__________________
Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question."
Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..."
Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 02:14 PM   #3109
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 29,618
Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Giuliani has apparently tested positive for coronavirus. Presumably that will keep him out of court for a few days?
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I'm surprised it took this long.
I had wondered if he had become infected when the Great Hair Dye incident occurred, and he was wiping his sweaty face everywhere. He’s been taking zero precautions judging by the video I have seen of him and he’s almost certainly infected others. Moron.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 02:22 PM   #3110
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 25,541
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Horse ****. It's a protected right for big religions with political support.
Sometimes the theory and the practice do not align.
__________________
Yes, yes. I know you are right. But would it hurt you to provide some information?
Meadmaker is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 02:32 PM   #3111
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,573
Rudy was already having a rough week month quarter and now this? On top of the, you-know.

Quote:
The fart heard around the political universe from Rudy Giuliani this week was no deep fake, according to a Michigan lawmaker. President Donald Trump's personal attorney went viral overnight Wednesday over a clip in which he appeared to pass gas during an election hearing. Later, a second video seemed to show a different fart. Business Insider
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Pull his finger.jpg (84.7 KB, 4 views)
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 02:35 PM   #3112
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,565
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Sometimes the theory and the practice do not align.
And sometimes they were never intended to.
__________________
Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question."
Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..."
Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 03:43 PM   #3113
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,573
Rudy Giuliani is in the hospital.
Quote:
Rudolph W. Giuliani, the former New York City mayor and President Trump’s personal and campaign lawyer, has tested positive for the coronavirus, Mr. Trump announced on Twitter on Sunday. Mr. Giuliani was at Georgetown University Medical Center, according to a person who was aware of his condition but not authorized to speak publicly. It was unclear why Mr. Trump was the one announcing it. It was also unclear whether Mr. Giuliani, 76, is symptomatic. But at his age, he is in the high-risk category for the virus. New York Times link
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 04:02 PM   #3114
alfaniner
Penultimate Amazing
 
alfaniner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sorth Dakonsin
Posts: 25,064
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

@RudyGiuliani, by far the greatest mayor in the history of NYC, and who has been working tirelessly exposing the most corrupt election (by far!) in the history of the USA, has tested positive for the China Virus. Get better soon Rudy, we will carry on!!!
I've seen some pushback for calling it the "Trump virus". I hope that's a meme that catches on. At this point "China virus" sounds even more jarring than when I first heard it.
__________________
Science is self-correcting.
Woo is self-contradicting.
alfaniner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 04:07 PM   #3115
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 87,908
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

@RudyGiuliani, by far the greatest mayor in the history of NYC, and who has been working tirelessly exposing the most corrupt election (by far!) in the history of the USA, has tested positive for the China Virus. Get better soon Rudy, we will carry on!!!
As opposed to "we'll get you the Regeneron thing."


Either Rudy has had this for a while or he deteriorated fast or he's in the hospital to get the IV Regeneron stuff.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 6th December 2020 at 04:13 PM.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 04:17 PM   #3116
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 87,908
Oh the places Typhoid Rudy's been.

And oh the places Typhoid Rudy's been! :Jaw:


He's already in the hospital. Either Rudy has had this for a while, or he deteriorated fast, or he's in the hospital to get the IV Regeneron monoclonal antibody treatment or any combination of the three.


Newsweek:'How Many People Did Rudy Giuliani Infect?' Twitter Reacts to Trump Lawyer's COVID Diagnosis
Quote:
Shortly after President Donald Trump announced Sunday that his attorney Rudy Giuliani had tested positive with COVID-19, many on Twitter began sharing videos of Giuliani attending crowded events in recents days without wearing a mask.

"How Rudy Giuliani didn't get covid until now is the more interesting question. They're likely getting a #SARSCoV2 monoclonal antibody ready for infusion. This treatment an affinity for politicians and friends, including Trump, Christie, and Carson. Otherwise very hard to come by," physician and scientist Eric Topol tweeted.
And wasn't he supposed to be in quarantine after his son got it? These guys are still relying on unreliable rapid tests in lieu of quarantine despite the obvious failure of using those tests instead of proper quarantine.

Maybe this will put an end to the stupid lawsuits.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 6th December 2020 at 04:31 PM.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 04:22 PM   #3117
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,232
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
No. He could NOT care less. People make this mistake all the time and it really annoys me!
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 04:42 PM   #3118
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 17,219
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Rudy Giuliani is in the hospital.
It was only a matter of time before this happened. Stupid Sidney is next.
__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 04:48 PM   #3119
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 17,219
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I remember taking my 8th grade history class to see that movie as a field trip when we were studying the Civil War.

I've seen that, and "Gettysburg"

Both gut-wrenching movies
__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th December 2020, 05:11 PM   #3120
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 28,602
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And wasn't he supposed to be in quarantine after his son got it? These guys are still relying on unreliable rapid tests in lieu of quarantine despite the obvious failure of using those tests instead of proper quarantine.
Sorry to those who get a bit squeamish about wishing others harm, but I really, really hope he dies, and not just because he's a disgusting old scroat and Trump sycophant, but mostly because he's the bloke who said "People don't die of it [Covid] any more."

Just maybe, that might encourage some of the clowns to wear a ******* mask.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Closed Thread

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:58 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.