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Tags 2020 elections , donald trump , joe biden

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Old 10th November 2020, 04:33 PM   #681
Dr.Sid
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
The Republican Party are going all in! Either they stage an all out coup or they disgrace themselves for generations to come.
This is madness.
They are simply morons. They genuinely believe the election was stolen. Just as Trump. He had great numbers, and the he lost. You can't explain it !
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Old 10th November 2020, 04:41 PM   #682
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
The Republican Party are going all in! Either they stage an all out coup or they disgrace themselves for generations to come.
This is madness.
Or they think havving Trump out campaiging will gin up voters for the Georgia seantorial electins in January...most likely scenario.
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Old 10th November 2020, 04:45 PM   #683
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
From the Washington Post Article:
Quote:
Hopkins’ allegations, without his name, were first aired last week by Project Veritas, an organization that uses deceptive tactics to expose what it says is bias and corruption in the mainstream media. Hopkins agreed to attach his name to the allegations late last week. He was instantly celebrated by Trump supporters.
Veritas - ethically challenged, to say the least.
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Old 10th November 2020, 04:56 PM   #684
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Veritas - ethically challenged, to say the least.
Project Prevaricus.
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Old 10th November 2020, 05:05 PM   #685
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I guess that's a difference - I don't see there being any cost other than the space you give it in your head. All of Trump's bitching and posturing will, at best, introduce some delay. It's a distraction and a waste of time. But it has no material impact on the welfare of the country, nor does it have any affect on the future of the country. It's mostly annoying and embarrassing.
This is the part where I disagree, without necessarily disagreeing with the rest of what you say. Seriously- you don't see any future problems arising from the fact that one of the two major political parties in our country is making an absolute *********** of our electoral process, for no other apparent reason than their political gain? They have already, in the last few years, set the precedent that the only thing that matters in politics is having the numbers needed to obstruct the other party- no need to be right, just have the technical right. They're making mouth-noises about protecting the integrity of the process and the confidence the American voter should have in it, while everything they're actually doing is to the effect of destroying that integrity and confidence. Do you really believe all those people that are being deliberately riled by manufactured evidence to think that Trump is a victim of fraud and theft are just going to sit back calmly and say "oh, well, guess we were wrong. Best of luck to Biden"? They think they are victims as well as Trump, that it's their victory that has been stolen. Evidence and reason aren't going to work to convince them out of something that evidence and reason had no part in convincing them into. And that will be the way going forward.
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Old 10th November 2020, 05:22 PM   #686
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I saw some Biden 46 t-shirts. Maybe they will have to be Biden 47 t-shirts.

Seriously, though, I could imagine Trump doing it, even without the pardon part. He's just the sort of guy who would think walking out would be preferable to waiting around until his last day.
This was my thinking too. I could even imagine him doing it in part to annoy all those who'd bought 'Biden #46' t-shirts.
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Old 10th November 2020, 05:28 PM   #687
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I guess that's a difference - I don't see there being any cost other than the space you give it in your head. All of Trump's bitching and posturing will, at best, introduce some delay. It's a distraction and a waste of time. But it has no material impact on the welfare of the country, nor does it have any affect on the future of the country. It's mostly annoying and embarrassing.
Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
This is the part where I disagree, without necessarily disagreeing with the rest of what you say. Seriously- you don't see any future problems arising from the fact that one of the two major political parties in our country is making an absolute *********** of our electoral process, for no other apparent reason than their political gain? They have already, in the last few years, set the precedent that the only thing that matters in politics is having the numbers needed to obstruct the other party- no need to be right, just have the technical right. They're making mouth-noises about protecting the integrity of the process and the confidence the American voter should have in it, while everything they're actually doing is to the effect of destroying that integrity and confidence. Do you really believe all those people that are being deliberately riled by manufactured evidence to think that Trump is a victim of fraud and theft are just going to sit back calmly and say "oh, well, guess we were wrong. Best of luck to Biden"? They think they are victims as well as Trump, that it's their victory that has been stolen. Evidence and reason aren't going to work to convince them out of something that evidence and reason had no part in convincing them into. And that will be the way going forward.
I agree with Turing. I definitely believe it has a material affect on the country.

Truth matters. Gaslighting creates a great cognitive dissonance with much of the public. It divides us even further. I can resolve differences with people based on the facts, but not if we distrust us each other to what the facts are. I use to have cordial, civil debates with people and then share a beer with them. This is impossible if they think you're a liar and/or the devil.
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Last edited by acbytesla; 10th November 2020 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 10th November 2020, 05:30 PM   #688
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This time, Republicans didn't manage to suppress the vote before the election, so now they try to do it afterwards.

The idea that the people elect their leaders is just upside down for them.
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Old 10th November 2020, 05:35 PM   #689
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
This time, Republicans didn't manage to suppress the vote before the election, so now they try to do it afterwards.

The idea that the people elect their leaders is just upside down for them.
Heck, they're calling for Republican election officials to resign because they did not to a sufficient enough job or rigging the election of failing to ensure a fair election.
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Old 10th November 2020, 05:44 PM   #690
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
Disgrace, madness. Just another day for the GOP.

There's no doubt that they all know that Trump can't win, so they're also faithless, dishonest, sleazy, unprincipled, self-serving... but most of all cowardly, because they know Trump can lash out at them.
No. I actually doubt it. I think they do believe he can win.
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Old 10th November 2020, 05:53 PM   #691
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Do you have a source for the highlighted?
A source? Sure. here it is:-
Quote:
“We have to win the election. We can’t play games. Go out and vote. Do those beautiful absentee ballots, or just make sure your vote gets counted. Make sure because the only way we're going to lose this election is if the election is rigged,” Trump told the group of supporters at the outdoor campaign event. “Remember that. It’s the only way we’re going to lose this election, so we have to be very careful.”

The only way they’re going to win is that way. And we can’t let that happen”
If that source isn't good enough for you then just google it. You will find it's not the only time he has said something similar.

Quote:
Prefereably one with context?
Context matters of course, but it's hard to think of a context where such statements don't mean precisely what they appear to mean. Oh, perhaps he was only joking? Nope, not buying it.

Quote:
My recollection (which could very well be faulty) is that he said he wouldn't accept it without making sure it was legitimate.
Weasel words. Trump's definition of 'legitimate' is him winning.

I don't believe your recollection is faulty, I think it's selective. A reasonable person would take what he said as his word, not try to find a way out. 'legitimate' is one of those outs. Latching onto this word indicates a desperate desire to 'legitimize' statements that are indefensible. But it won't work here. Because we know what Trump means when he says 'legitimate'.
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Old 10th November 2020, 05:58 PM   #692
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
No. I actually doubt it. I think they do believe he can win.
and then?
Do they think the 80% of Americans who believe Biden has been elected will just accept a reversal based on nothing but allegations?

Republicans act as if this is the last Election in history.
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:00 PM   #693
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
No. I actually doubt it. I think they do believe he can win.
They can't win. They might be able to steal it though. But this absolutely would be the end of democracy in the US.

This said, I want a little message discipline among the Democrats. Every interview and speech should lead with the popular vote margin.

How we are pleased that Four million six hundred forty million more Americans voted for President Elect Joe Biden than Donald Trump.

This election was not close and voice of such a large majority requires to be heard if the United States stands for anything.
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:08 PM   #694
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Or Kuatos, as the case may be.
Oh I saw that movie in the cinema back in the day. That's hilarious.
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:11 PM   #695
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Trump Tweets

“I don’t care what state you’re in, this computer voting system is wide open to fraud and intervention.” @LouDobbs

True, and wait until you see what’s coming!
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:12 PM   #696
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
This is the part where I disagree, without necessarily disagreeing with the rest of what you say. Seriously- you don't see any future problems arising from the fact that one of the two major political parties in our country is making an absolute *********** of our electoral process, for no other apparent reason than their political gain? They have already, in the last few years, set the precedent that the only thing that matters in politics is having the numbers needed to obstruct the other party- no need to be right, just have the technical right. They're making mouth-noises about protecting the integrity of the process and the confidence the American voter should have in it, while everything they're actually doing is to the effect of destroying that integrity and confidence. Do you really believe all those people that are being deliberately riled by manufactured evidence to think that Trump is a victim of fraud and theft are just going to sit back calmly and say "oh, well, guess we were wrong. Best of luck to Biden"? They think they are victims as well as Trump, that it's their victory that has been stolen. Evidence and reason aren't going to work to convince them out of something that evidence and reason had no part in convincing them into. And that will be the way going forward.
I agree 100% with you.
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:13 PM   #697
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
It's either a vast, nationwide conspiracy or Trump and his pissant followers are entirely full of ****.
It's either a vast, nationwide conspiracy or Trump and his pissant followers are entirely full of ****. - the Deplorables.

It's either a vast, nationwide conspiracy or Trump and his pissant followers are entirely full of ****. - everyone else.

Actually that's not fair. The Deplorables also know that they and Trump are entirely full of ****, but they think that if they pretend it's a vast nationwide conspiracy they just might be able to steal the election.
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:14 PM   #698
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Republicans act as if this is the last Election in history.
It might be their goal.
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:15 PM   #699
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
They can't win. They might be able to steal it though. But this absolutely would be the end of democracy in the US.

This said, I want a little message discipline among the Democrats. Every interview and speech should lead with the popular vote margin.

How we are pleased that Four million six hundred forty million more Americans voted for President Elect Joe Biden than Donald Trump.

This election was not close and voice of such a large majority requires to be heard if the United States stands for anything.
Latest results I'm seeing show Biden with 76.9 million, Trump with 71.8 million. That's five million, a nice, easily-digested round number; and there's no reason to think that margin will get smaller.

So, I agree with your messaging, if for no other reason than that a popular vote margin like that must really get under Trump's skin, given how he reacted to a much smaller one four years ago. "Five million more! That's not a steal, that's a plain defeat."
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:16 PM   #700
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
The Republican Party are going all in! Either they stage an all out coup or they disgrace themselves for generations to come.
This is madness.
I don't think they are courting disaster.

The fact is that even if all this bluster amounts to nothing, many folks will still believe the election was stolen. The GOP fought the good fight against evil, even if they were thwarted. This defeat will be remembered.

It's not as if the bulk of Republicans think that endless Benghazi hearings were a waste of time or that Hillary was innocent of whatever nefarious scheme that was about.
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:17 PM   #701
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
They can't win. They might be able to steal it though. But this absolutely would be the end of democracy in the US.

This said, I want a little message discipline among the Democrats. Every interview and speech should lead with the popular vote margin.

How we are pleased that Four million six hundred forty million more Americans voted for President Elect Joe Biden than Donald Trump.

This election was not close and voice of such a large majority requires to be heard if the United States stands for anything.
Election is not about majority. That's irrelevant. If Trump actually finds evidence of fraud (which I doubt), no majority would overturn it.
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:28 PM   #702
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
Election is not about majority. That's irrelevant. If Trump actually finds evidence of fraud (which I doubt), no majority would overturn it.
You don't seem to get it. Trump has NOTHING. He's trying to create doubt by getting every Republican he can to blow the same note. I was cheated, I was cheated. But most Americans don't really understand all of this.

But they do understand large numbers. This isn't about 533 votes that gave Florida to Bush in 2000. This is about almost 5 million Americans voting for Biden. And I pretty much guarantee as they get through absentee ballots in California and NYC this number is going to break 5 million.

This is about what the public hears. Can't let Trump's narrative carry the day so you have to give them another one.
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:28 PM   #703
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
No. I actually doubt it. I think they do believe he can win.
Well, I'm saying they're without morals, and you're saying they're without brains, and there's a good argument that we're both right.
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:30 PM   #704
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Latest results I'm seeing show Biden with 76.9 million, Trump with 71.8 million. That's five million, a nice, easily-digested round number; and there's no reason to think that margin will get smaller.

So, I agree with your messaging, if for no other reason than that a popular vote margin like that must really get under Trump's skin, given how he reacted to a much smaller one four years ago. "Five million more! That's not a steal, that's a plain defeat."
I missed this post. I knew it was going to break 5 million. There were too many ballots left in NYC and California to count.
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:33 PM   #705
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Latest results I'm seeing show Biden with 76.9 million, Trump with 71.8 million. That's five million, a nice, easily-digested round number; and there's no reason to think that margin will get smaller.

So, I agree with your messaging, if for no other reason than that a popular vote margin like that must really get under Trump's skin, given how he reacted to a much smaller one four years ago. "Five million more! That's not a steal, that's a plain defeat."
Do you have a cite? Wikipedia was last updated at around noon.

Also, this isn't about getting under his skin it's about what the media leads with.
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Last edited by acbytesla; 10th November 2020 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:34 PM   #706
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I don't think they are courting disaster.

The fact is that even if all this bluster amounts to nothing, many folks will still believe the election was stolen. The GOP fought the good fight against evil, even if they were thwarted. This defeat will be remembered.

It's not as if the bulk of Republicans think that endless Benghazi hearings were a waste of time or that Hillary was innocent of whatever nefarious scheme that was about.
That's actually a pretty good point. The idea (or hope) that there probably won't be any real future effects from the well-poisoning of the electoral process the GOP is indulging in for political gain right now is kind of belied by the possibility (at least) that this **** show right now is an effect of the well-poisoning they've been indulging in for political gain for at least eight years. That future is now...
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:34 PM   #707
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Do you have a cite? Wikipedia was last updated at around noon.
I like The Guardian's tracker this year.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...arizona-nevada
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:38 PM   #708
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Do you have a cite? Wikipedia was last updated at around noon.
Try this- it should be the MSN Election 2020 Results Map.


ETA- Delphic Oracle's source seems to show results identical to mine.
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Last edited by turingtest; 10th November 2020 at 06:42 PM. Reason: ETA
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:39 PM   #709
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I missed this post. I knew it was going to break 5 million. There were too many ballots left in NYC and California to count.
I'm confident it will reach 6 million. Lots of uncounted votes still to go.
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:43 PM   #710
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
I'm confident it will reach 6 million. Lots of uncounted votes still to go.
And it looks like the bulk of them are in CA and NY.
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:46 PM   #711
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Do you have a cite? Wikipedia was last updated at around noon.

Also, this isn't about getting under his skin it's about what the media leads with.
Well, that's true, messaging is more important. I have no objection to the bonus, though.
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:46 PM   #712
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Try this- it should be the MSN Election 2020 Results Map.
They rounded the numbers.

Cook Political
Biden: 76,968,878.
Trump: 72,031,686
Margin: 4,937,192

https://cookpolitical.com/2020-natio...r-vote-tracker
Almost 5 million...
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:50 PM   #713
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I like The Guardian's tracker this year.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...arizona-nevada
Biden 76,884,026
Trump. 71,833,797

Margin.: 5,050,229
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:51 PM   #714
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The two different methods receive different levels of scrutiny. For example, you have to show an ID in person but a signature is acceptable on a mail in in the same state.
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
This is also true in pretty much every state.
Not in California. If you vote by mail or in person, a signature is required. That's all, so the two vote validation methods are really only one.
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:51 PM   #715
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Well, that's true, messaging is more important. I have no objection to the bonus, though.
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:52 PM   #716
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I guess that's a difference - I don't see there being any cost other than the space you give it in your head. All of Trump's bitching and posturing will, at best, introduce some delay. It's a distraction and a waste of time. But it has no material impact on the welfare of the country, nor does it have any affect on the future of the country. It's mostly annoying and embarrassing.
OMG!

Do you live in in a cave?

Maybe there are no Trumpers where you are showing up to demonstrate in camo with their rifles slung over their shoulders. Around here while murders have been limited to one or two at a time, that may not hold when their QAnon romper-room leader exits the WH.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 10th November 2020 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:54 PM   #717
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Not in California. If you vote by mail or in person, a signature is required. That's all, so the two vote validation methods are really only one.
Not sure what you're saying. A signature is required pretty much everywhere. They'll reject your ballot in Washington State if you don't sign the affidavit that comes with the ballot.

If you vote in person, you sign the registrar.
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Last edited by acbytesla; 10th November 2020 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:57 PM   #718
Fast Eddie B
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post

But they do understand large numbers. This isn't about 533 votes that gave Florida to Bush in 2000. This is about almost 5 million Americans voting for Biden. And I pretty much guarantee as they get through absentee ballots in California and NYC this number is going to break 5 million.
I think the flaw in that reasoning is the large numbers of Americans that simply don’t believe those numbers are legitimate.

Just today I saw a petition calling for a recount or a new election outright.

And a pickup with “2020 Fraud Election” painted on the rear window.

And numerous Facebook posts calling the election fraudulent.

For those folks, no number, no matter how large, will be seen as legitimate.
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Old 10th November 2020, 07:01 PM   #719
eerok
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
OMG!

Do you live in in a cave?

Maybe there are no Trumpers where you are showing up to demonstrate with their rifles slung over their shoulders. Around here while murders have been limited to one or two at a time, that may not hold when their QAnon room-leader exits the WH.
Yeah, this a crapstand beyond belief. It's insane.
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Old 10th November 2020, 07:02 PM   #720
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I don't think they are courting disaster.

The fact is that even if all this bluster amounts to nothing, many folks will still believe the election was stolen. The GOP fought the good fight against evil, even if they were thwarted. This defeat will be remembered.
And Bingo was his name-o.
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