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Tags Congressional hearings , donald trump , impeachment , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 21st October 2019, 02:50 PM   #841
theprestige
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Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger View Post
Agreed. It's perfectly fair to draw the obvious adverse inference when someone fails to produce documents requested by a board of directors or congressional committee.
Oh, indeed. I'm not sure you understand the nature of my argument, nor the points on which we actually disagree.
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Old 21st October 2019, 02:53 PM   #842
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Until I found out his involvement with Theranos, I assumed Mattis understood Trump as well as I did, and believed the nation would be better for having someone like himself as Secretary of Defenese. That is, he joined the cabinet not out of respect or loyalty for Trump, but to ensure a certain amount of sanity and professionalism in the area of national defense. And when he left, I assumed he'd given it his best effort, and needed a break. Now? I'm not so sure.

What about you? What did you think of Mattis, before he became Secretary of Defense? Did your opinion of him change when you learned he'd "joined Team Trump" and taken a Cabinet position? Did your opinion of him change when he stepped down from that role?
To be honest, I wasn't really familiar with Mattis before he joined Team Trump. That wasn't the gist of what I was referring to, anyway:

What I was referring to is how you seem to hold it against Mattis because he got conned (or maybe you think he was in on the con?) by Elizabeth Holmes. I'm saying you shouldn't hold it against him simply because he got conned--After all, you are being conned by Donald Trump as we speak.

That was my point.
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Old 21st October 2019, 02:54 PM   #843
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger View Post
Agreed. It's perfectly fair to draw the obvious adverse inference when someone fails to produce documents requested by a board of directors or congressional committee.
Oh, indeed. I'm not sure you understand the nature of my argument, nor the points on which we actually disagree.
I agree with your reply as well. Indeed, I doubt whether even you understand the nature of your argument, nor the points on which we actually disagree.
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Old 21st October 2019, 03:07 PM   #844
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Trump today mocks the US Constitution. "You people with your phony Emoluments Clause".
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Old 21st October 2019, 03:13 PM   #845
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Trump today mocks the US Constitution. "You people with your phony Emoluments Clause".
This particular Trmp statement reminded me of that old joke from Groucho Marx:

"Who are you going to believe?

Me or your own lying eyes?"
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Old 21st October 2019, 03:30 PM   #846
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
This particular Trmp statement reminded me of that old joke from Groucho Marx:

"Who are you going to believe?

Me or your own lying eyes?"
Groucho?

Trump has gone from calling the news "Fake" to referring to the Constitution as "phony". The Republican chairman to the homeland security committee just called the FBI and the CIA as untrustworthy.

They really are trying to turn the world upside down.
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Old 21st October 2019, 03:37 PM   #847
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
To be honest, I wasn't really familiar with Mattis before he joined Team Trump. That wasn't the gist of what I was referring to, anyway
I'm not familiar with Mattis either, but I found this quite illuminating :


https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...riefing-229865


I think he's been shaped by the military culture he's spent his adult life in, which can make him seem too trusting in other settings.



Quote:
What I was referring to is how you seem to hold it against Mattis because he got conned (or maybe you think he was in on the con?) by Elizabeth Holmes. I'm saying you shouldn't hold it against him simply because he got conned--After all, you are being conned by Donald Trump as we speak.
I think you'll find theprestige is talking about Mattis, not Trump. Any minute now...


What I do know about Mattis is his delicious line about Trump winning his spurs. And not just because I'm a Spurs fan.
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Old 21st October 2019, 03:41 PM   #848
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Groucho?



Trump has gone from calling the news "Fake" to referring to the Constitution as "phony". The Republican chairman to the homeland security committee just called the FBI and the CIA as untrustworthy.



They really are trying to turn the world upside down.
Is he calling the constitution phony, or is he alleging that the complaint against him is pseudo constitutional and phony?

It seems like your rebuttal depends on begging the question.
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Old 21st October 2019, 03:48 PM   #849
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Is he calling the constitution phony, or is he alleging that the complaint against him is pseudo constitutional and phony?

It seems like your rebuttal depends on begging the question.
You'll make any excuse for him. That we can count on.

Trump's use of the government to enrich himself is obvious. This man lies about everything. He lied to avoid taxes by understating the value of his properties and lied to lenders overstating the values of those same properties.

Do you really think it's proper for the President to steer business to himself?
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Old 21st October 2019, 03:51 PM   #850
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Theprestige, do you think Trump holding the G7 Summit at his Doral property would have been violating the Emoluments Clause?
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Old 21st October 2019, 03:54 PM   #851
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Is he calling the constitution phony, or is he alleging that the complaint against him is pseudo constitutional and phony?

It seems like your rebuttal depends on begging the question.
Here's the quote in context (near the end of the video, maybe 5/6th of the way through.)


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...t-g-7-n1069606

No way to tell what he means.
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Old 21st October 2019, 03:56 PM   #852
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You'll make any excuse for him. That we can count on.

Trump's use of the government to enrich himself is obvious. This man lies about everything. He lied to avoid taxes by understating the value of his properties and lied to lenders overstating the values of those same properties.

Do you really think it's proper for the President to steer business to himself?
I'm wondering were the Saudis stayed in NYC prior to 2016? Was it Trump Int'l or other hotels?
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Old 21st October 2019, 03:58 PM   #853
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Theprestige, do you think Trump holding the G7 Summit at his Doral property would have been violating the Emoluments Clause?
Or this?
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/208
Quote:
U.S. Code § 208.Acts affecting a personal financial interest
Quote:
(a)Except as permitted by subsection (b) hereof, whoever, being an officer or employee of the executive branch of the United States Government, or of any independent agency of the United States, a Federal Reserve bank director, officer, or employee, or an officer or employee of the District of Columbia, including a special Government employee, participates personally and substantially as a Government officer or employee, through decision, approval, disapproval, recommendation, the rendering of advice, investigation, or otherwise, in a judicial or other proceeding, application, request for a ruling or other determination, contract, claim, controversy, charge, accusation, arrest, or other particular matter in which, to his knowledge, he, his spouse, minor child, general partner, organization in which he is serving as officer, director, trustee, general partner or employee, or any person or organization with whom he is negotiating or has any arrangement concerning prospective employment, has a financial interest—
Shall be subject to the penalties set forth in section 216 of this title
.
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Old 21st October 2019, 04:04 PM   #854
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Trump has gone from calling the news "Fake" to referring to the Constitution as "phony". The Republican chairman to the homeland security committee just called the FBI and the CIA as untrustworthy.
The meltdown has not been contained, evidently.

Quote:
They really are trying to turn the world upside down.
Trump is being consumed by L'Affaire DNC Server, and taking all his intestinal worms down the gullet with him. It's a convoluted construct, of which he can have only the foggiest concept : he knows Italy's in it (from recent public ramblings) but not that Mifsud (who he?) was an Italian asset who set up poor Georgie the Greek.


L'Affaire DNC Server puts me in mind of Palmerston on the Schleswig-Holstein question : "Only three people understand it. One is mad, one is dead, the third is me and I've forgotten." Only Childlike Empress can understand this question.
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Old 21st October 2019, 04:05 PM   #855
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I'm wondering were the Saudis stayed in NYC prior to 2016? Was it Trump Int'l or other hotels?
They also leased office space in Trump Tower after he was elected POTUS.
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Old 21st October 2019, 04:13 PM   #856
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Is he calling the constitution phony, or is he alleging that the complaint against him is pseudo constitutional and phony?
Is Trump incapable of communicating? Or does he obfuscate deliberately? What's your opinion? IMO, of course, he's incapable of communicating, [SNIP].
Edited by kmortis:  Removed to comply with Rule 12
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Last edited by kmortis; 22nd October 2019 at 03:28 AM.
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Old 21st October 2019, 04:15 PM   #857
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Is he calling the constitution phony, or is he alleging that the complaint against him is pseudo constitutional and phony?

It seems like your rebuttal depends on begging the question.
His exact words seemed to cast doubt on the reality of the emoluments clause.

Of course he is abysmal at expressing himself.
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Old 21st October 2019, 04:15 PM   #858
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You'll make any excuse for him. That we can count on.

Trump's use of the government to enrich himself is obvious. This man lies about everything. He lied to avoid taxes by understating the value of his properties and lied to lenders overstating the values of those same properties.

Do you really think it's proper for the President to steer business to himself?
Dear Leader is always right...
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Old 21st October 2019, 04:18 PM   #859
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
No way to tell what he means.
Nor what he doesn't mean. What Trump says can mean whatever you dream. That's how it works.
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Old 21st October 2019, 04:18 PM   #860
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Theprestige, do you think Trump holding the G7 Summit at his Doral property would have been violating the Emoluments Clause?
I'd like to know this too.
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Old 21st October 2019, 04:24 PM   #861
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At one point in the Cabinet meeting he referred to a trade agreement with North Korea.

ETA: Kinda off topic I know

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Old 21st October 2019, 05:54 PM   #862
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Is he calling the constitution phony, or is he alleging that the complaint against him is pseudo constitutional and phony?
And once again, Trump is literal when it's convenient, and metaphorical when it's not.
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Old 21st October 2019, 06:34 PM   #863
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
From the book: Mattis wanted Theranos devices on the field, informing treatment of troops in realtime. This was routed to the Army's office of regulatory compliance. The compliance officer raised ethical concerns about Theranos' regulatory strategy, which he shared with the FDA. The FDA also found the strategy concerning. Mattis knew this. Instead of prompting him to take a closer look at the company, it prompted him to summon the Army officer and make him explain himself.

The upshot of that meeting was that Mattis agreed that Theranos devices didn't meet regulations necessary to actually be used on troops in the field. Instead, it was proposed that Theranos do a more limited trial, using anonymized blood samples. While this wouldn't save lives, it would at least prove Theranos' capability to do accurate blood tests on small samples. Theranos didn't have this capability, and never followed through with the trial.

Even though Mattis supposedly wanted this tech in the field with his troops, he apparently did not notice that the company whose board he joined never actually made any real attempt to get there.

And it's not so much about what Mattis knew and when. It's about the fiduciary responsibility of a board of directors to direct the company. There were things he should have known, but didn't. Like the fact that Theranos never actually did any kind of calibrating study, where their results were compared to known-good results. The revenue projections they were showing the board were based on partnership contracts that were never produced when requested by board members. Etc.

There's a lot of basic stuff that Theranos was doing wrong, that should have been noticeable to anyone who asked even simple questions. Just the failure to produce definitive documents when requested by board members should have been enough. Assuming Mattis were actually interested in that.
So he got taken in by a fraud (he did lose money on the whole thing) just like a lot of other people. That's why you soured on him? Really? It's not because he broke ranks with (and mocked) the filthy Russian whore you're so enamored of? That's not it?
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Old 21st October 2019, 06:36 PM   #864
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Is he calling the constitution phony, or is he alleging that the complaint against him is pseudo constitutional and phony?

It seems like your rebuttal depends on begging the question.
dupe
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Old 21st October 2019, 06:40 PM   #865
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Is he calling the constitution phony, or is he alleging that the complaint against him is pseudo constitutional and phony?

It seems like your rebuttal depends on begging the question.
Why would you think this? He's demonstrated his stupidity and dishonesty so many times. He said, "You people with this phony Emoluments Clause." That's all there is to it. No need to look for deeper meanings. It's what he said and if he doesn't like it, the stupid bitch should learn his place and keep his mouth shut.

Anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear knows he's not a loyal American. Why is it so hard for you to think he thinks a part of the Constitution isn't real? I understand how you need to find ways to tell yourself you're still a loyal American in spite of your vote for a Russian whore.
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Old 21st October 2019, 09:49 PM   #866
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
<snip>

And it's not so much about what Mattis knew and when. It's about the fiduciary responsibility of a board of directors to direct the company. There were things he should have known, but didn't.

<snip>

I thought boards of directors were nothing but sinecures for the rich and powerful and their offspring, with the sole purpose of enabling them to skim yet more wealth off the top at the expense of hapless mutual funds and pension investments.

Maybe Hunter wasn't such a bad guy after all?
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Old 21st October 2019, 09:59 PM   #867
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I was very wary of someone called "Mad Dog".
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Old 22nd October 2019, 01:15 AM   #868
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Do you really think it's proper for the President to steer business to himself?
And money donated to children with cancer. Let's not forget that.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 01:22 AM   #869
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Time magazine has posted a list they will keep updated of every subpoena for documents connected with the inquiry, and when the deadline for each is or was

At the moment there are 8 subpoenas where the deadline has passed.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 03:11 AM   #870
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I was very wary of someone called "Mad Dog".
Het hates that name.
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Old 23rd October 2019, 08:55 AM   #871
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So it looks like at least some Republicans are still behind Trump on the whole impeachment thing...

From: https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...ment-testimony
House Republicans stormed a closed-door hearing Wednesday morning to protest Democrats' impeachment inquiry, breaking up the deposition of a top Defense Department who was testifying about President Trump's dealings with Ukraine.
...
Some of Republicans who barged into the hearing room were in possession of cellphones, a violation of the rules governing the so-called sensitive compartmented information facility.


Of course, everyone here should recognize that while the hearings aren't necessarily public, the Republicans do have representation on the committees performing the inquiry. This is just an attempt at a distraction.

And for the party that complained about Hillary's emails, breaking security protocols by bringing cell phones into a room where they should not be is a little bit hypocritical.
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Old 23rd October 2019, 09:00 AM   #872
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I kind of wish the media, at least the headlines and bylines, would make more distinction between "Impeachment" and "Conviction through Impeachment."

I keep reading things like "Impeachment grows more likely" and "Inner circle tells Trump impeachment is inevitable" and aren't clear if they are talking the House starting Impeachment Proceedings (which is gonna happen... whenever) and Trump being impeached in the way the masses think of the term; being removed from office which isn't gonna happen.
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Old 23rd October 2019, 09:03 AM   #873
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
So it looks like at least some Republicans are still behind Trump on the whole impeachment thing...

From: https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...ment-testimony
House Republicans stormed a closed-door hearing Wednesday morning to protest Democrats' impeachment inquiry, breaking up the deposition of a top Defense Department who was testifying about President Trump's dealings with Ukraine.
...
Some of Republicans who barged into the hearing room were in possession of cellphones, a violation of the rules governing the so-called sensitive compartmented information facility.


Of course, everyone here should recognize that while the hearings aren't necessarily public, the Republicans do have representation on the committees performing the inquiry. This is just an attempt at a distraction.

And for the party that complained about Hillary's emails, breaking security protocols by bringing cell phones into a room where they should not be is a little bit hypocritical.
Maybe they were taking a leaf from the book of their white supremacist base and were livestreaming their shenanigans?
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Old 23rd October 2019, 09:03 AM   #874
Segnosaur
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From: https://www.thedailybeast.com/former...is-not-a-crime
...former acting U.S. Attorney General Matthew Whitaker defended the president by claiming “abuse of power is not a crime.”...
Whitaker stated. “What evidence of a crime do you have? So the Constitution—abuse of power is not a crime.”


So I guess we can end the impeachment proceedings.

Seriously, that seems almost as bad as Mulvaney's "Trump is still in the hospitality business" or Giuliani's "Trump didn't do it but he did" as far as making Trump look bad.
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Old 23rd October 2019, 09:06 AM   #875
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
From: https://www.thedailybeast.com/former...is-not-a-crime
...former acting U.S. Attorney General Matthew Whitaker defended the president by claiming “abuse of power is not a crime.”...
Whitaker stated. “What evidence of a crime do you have? So the Constitution—abuse of power is not a crime.”
I.... this.... I mean he--





I have nothing.
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Old 23rd October 2019, 09:09 AM   #876
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Theprestige, do you think Trump holding the G7 Summit at his Doral property would have been violating the Emoluments Clause?
I think it's debatable. Meadmaker started a thread to debate that and related legal questions recently, but it fell apart almost instantly due to lack of enthusiasm for actually debating such questions.

Feel free to head back over to that thread, if you find you're now enthusiastic about it. I won't debate it here, though.
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Old 23rd October 2019, 09:11 AM   #877
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I kind of wish the media, at least the headlines and bylines, would make more distinction between "Impeachment" and "Conviction through Impeachment."

I keep reading things like "Impeachment grows more likely" and "Inner circle tells Trump impeachment is inevitable" and aren't clear if they are talking the House starting Impeachment Proceedings (which is gonna happen... whenever) and Trump being impeached in the way the masses think of the term; being removed from office which isn't gonna happen.
I agree with an addition.

There is currently an Impeachment inquiry going on. This is not Impeachment. But the Republicans are all in a twist because it's not in public. How many inquiries and/or investigations are conducted in public?
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Old 23rd October 2019, 09:11 AM   #878
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I.... this.... I mean he--





I have nothing.
Don't worry one of the Trumpers will be along any minute to.... "HEY LOOK A SQUIRREL!" why this makes perfect sense.
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Old 23rd October 2019, 09:12 AM   #879
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I think it's debatable. Meadmaker started a thread to debate that and related legal questions recently, but it fell apart almost instantly due to lack of enthusiasm for actually debating such questions.

Feel free to head back over to that thread, if you find you're now enthusiastic about it. I won't debate it here, though.
It's ******* debatable? Just how far backwards are you prepared to bend? You were asked a direct question and you danced around it. Answer the question. Stand for something.
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Old 23rd October 2019, 09:14 AM   #880
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
I agree with an addition.

There is currently an Impeachment inquiry going on. This is not Impeachment. But the Republicans are all in a twist because it's not in public. How many inquiries and/or investigations are conducted in public?
Don't worry about it. It's in the same folder as the "we can't confirm a SCOTUS justice in a President's final year in office!"
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