Rioters storm and occupy the US Capitol - Page 78

bruto · 27th February 2021, 08:20 AM

I think they really thought they were the in crowd, with special privilege and that their leader would affirm it. The political philosophy of their leaders is a mishmash of Pealing platitudes, comic book vigilantism, Randian exceptionalism and decaffeinated Thoreau, culminating in what the author Frank Wilhoit characterizes as the single tenet of conservatism: that "there must be an in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, and out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."

Resume · 27th February 2021, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by dann

Don't!

Too late

Mumbles · 27th February 2021, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by dann

They expected to be rewarded when they had reinstated Trump, so they wanted to make it easy for the New Republican Order to identify the people who deserved medals and invitations to his inauguration.

The simpler explanation is that most of them...just aren't that bright. Fools have been posting their own crime photos since at least back when Tom was everyone's friend - the cops routinely mocked them for snitching on themselves during press conferences.

Distracted1 · 27th February 2021, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by dann

They expected to be rewarded when they had reinstated Trump, so they wanted to make it easy for the New Republican Order to identify the people who deserved medals and invitations to his inauguration.

https://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/

Teri Gross recently broadcast an interview on NPR with a photographer "embedded" with the rioters.
Worth a listen, some interesting takes from the journalist- many not at all what one might expect.

ETA The show from Feb. 25

Gord_in_Toronto · 27th February 2021, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Distracted1

https://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/

Teri Gross recently broadcast an interview on NPR with a photographer "embedded" with the rioters.
Worth a listen, some interesting takes from the journalist- many not at all what one might expect.

ETA The show from Feb. 25

This one: https://www.wrvo.org/post/reporters-...lence#stream/0

Actual video here: https://www.newyorker.com/news/video...-capitol-siege (I know it may have been previously posted but . . . . )

SezMe · 27th February 2021, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by bruto

I think they really thought they were the in crowd, with special privilege and that their leader would affirm it. The political philosophy of their leaders is a mishmash of Pealing platitudes, comic book vigilantism, Randian exceptionalism and decaffeinated Thoreau, culminating in what the author Frank Wilhoit characterizes as the single tenet of conservatism: that "there must be an in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, and out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."

Although it's a common reference, I think most of today's "conservatives" are not, in fact, conservatives but hide behind that respectable label. Trump was/is no conservative. I'd guess damn few of the CPAC attendees are really conservative. In this, I think of conservatives as believing in fiscal restraint, personal responsibility, a cautious foreign policy, etc.

In contrast, most outspoken GOPers are gung-ho on military might expressed around the world bolstered by a seemingly unlimited budget, federalism only to the extent the states restrict abortion as much as possible and restrict guns as little as possible.

I suppose Mitt Romney is the closest Republican who stands by conservative values and he's persona non grata to Republicans from top leaders down to the mouth-breathers.

Mumbles · 27th February 2021, 06:32 PM

Been telling y'all for years: "Limited government" and "police can kill people on sight, based on their skin color" are entirely incompatible. The GOP is very specifically "limited government" for straight white christian men, especially wealthy ones.

bruto · 27th February 2021, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by SezMe

Although it's a common reference, I think most of today's "conservatives" are not, in fact, conservatives but hide behind that respectable label. Trump was/is no conservative. I'd guess damn few of the CPAC attendees are really conservative. In this, I think of conservatives as believing in fiscal restraint, personal responsibility, a cautious foreign policy, etc.

In contrast, most outspoken GOPers are gung-ho on military might expressed around the world bolstered by a seemingly unlimited budget, federalism only to the extent the states restrict abortion as much as possible and restrict guns as little as possible.

I suppose Mitt Romney is the closest Republican who stands by conservative values and he's persona non grata to Republicans from top leaders down to the mouth-breathers.

I would agree, and would have used a different term, but I was quoting. I think the persons passing
themselves off as conservative are radical reactionaries.

e.t.a. I also agree with Mumbles. The supposed advocates of limited government do not want limited government at all. Their idea of "limited" government is that of dictators: Limited not in power but in complexity and cost.

acbytesla · 27th February 2021, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by SezMe

Although it's a common reference, I think most of today's "conservatives" are not, in fact, conservatives but hide behind that respectable label. Trump was/is no conservative. I'd guess damn few of the CPAC attendees are really conservative. In this, I think of conservatives as believing in fiscal restraint, personal responsibility, a cautious foreign policy, etc.

In contrast, most outspoken GOPers are gung-ho on military might expressed around the world bolstered by a seemingly unlimited budget, federalism only to the extent the states restrict abortion as much as possible and restrict guns as little as possible.

I suppose Mitt Romney is the closest Republican who stands by conservative values and he's persona non grata to Republicans from top leaders down to the mouth-breathers.

The so called "conservative" ideology has been spoiled almost from day one. This dates me, but whatever. The first politician who ran on this idea of limited government and truly embraced the "conservative" label was Barry Goldwater. Goldwater was hawkish and against almost all social programs. But wouldn't give a damn if you were atheist or gay or a minority. That was the individual's choice. A true conservative right up until 1980 would be pro-choice, have no problem with civil or gay rights.

It was Reagan's alliance with the Christian right in 1980 that changed that. But Reagan himself didn't care or even like the alliance.

Today conservatism is really some bizarre Christian nationalism. More akin to NAZIsm than it is true conservativism.

SuburbanTurkey · 1st March 2021, 05:25 AM

Quote:

ederal investigators probing the death of a U.S. Capitol Police officer killed in the Jan. 6 riot have zeroed in on a suspect seen on video appearing to spray a chemical substance on the officer before he later collapsed and died, two people familiar with the matter told The Associated Press.

The FBI has obtained video that shows the person spraying Brian Sicknick and other law enforcement officers during the Jan. 6 riot, the people said. But they cautioned that federal agents haven’t yet identified the suspect by name and the act hasn’t been directly tied to Sicknick’s death.

https://apnews.com/article/capitol-s...9bcf8db70a4c3f

Seems tenuous, but it'll be extremely funny if some CHUD catches a murder charge for spraying a cop with a less-lethal weapon. Imagine getting a life sentence for accidentally killing a cop with bear spray while your fellow CHUDs are getting lesser charges for beating them with flagpoles and fire extinguishers.

dann · 1st March 2021, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

The so called "conservative" ideology has been spoiled almost from day one. This dates me, but whatever. The first politician who ran on this idea of limited government and truly embraced the "conservative" label was Barry Goldwater. Goldwater was hawkish and against almost all social programs. But wouldn't give a damn if you were atheist or gay or a minority. That was the individual's choice. A true conservative right up until 1980 would be pro-choice, have no problem with civil or gay rights.

It was Reagan's alliance with the Christian right in 1980 that changed that. But Reagan himself didn't care or even like the alliance.

Today conservatism is really some bizarre Christian nationalism. More akin to NAZIsm than it is true conservativism.

Quote:

Reelected in 1958, Goldwater opposed social welfare programs and continued to criticize the Supreme Court on its school integration stance. He voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964. King said of Goldwater’s voting record, “While not himself a racist, Mr. Goldwater articulates a philosophy which gives aid and comfort to the racists.” (King, 16 July 1964).
Goldwater, Barry M. (Stanford University, The Martin Luther King, Jr. Research and Education Institute)

That seems to encapsulate the difference between conservatives and Nazis.

Bob001 · 3rd March 2021, 11:00 PM

Congress cancels Thursday sessions for fear of new attack on the Capitol. After all, it's supposed to be the day of Trump's inaugural.
https://www.npr.org/2021/03/03/97331...ck-on-congress

The Great Zaganza · 3rd March 2021, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by Bob001

Congress cancels Thursday sessions for fear of new attack on the Capitol. After all, it's supposed to be the day of Trump's inaugural.
https://www.npr.org/2021/03/03/97331...ck-on-congress

what more proof do you need?

Skeptic Ginger · 4th March 2021, 01:42 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

https://apnews.com/article/capitol-s...9bcf8db70a4c3f

Seems tenuous, but it'll be extremely funny if some CHUD catches a murder charge for spraying a cop with a less-lethal weapon. Imagine getting a life sentence for accidentally killing a cop with bear spray while your fellow CHUDs are getting lesser charges for beating them with flagpoles and fire extinguishers.

If/when they find him I'm sure they can prosecute for the bear spray incident. More than that will really depend on the autopsy.

But if you shove someone down and they die from a brain injury, it doesn't matter that a thousand people before you pushed a person down and the person didn't die.

SuburbanTurkey · 4th March 2021, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

If/when they find him I'm sure they can prosecute for the bear spray incident. More than that will really depend on the autopsy.

But if you shove someone down and they die from a brain injury, it doesn't matter that a thousand people before you pushed a person down and the person didn't die.

Seems like a real longshot, but if this is what happens, it's like a real life example of someone rolling a critical failure in D&D.

SuburbanTurkey · 4th March 2021, 06:10 AM

Quote:

U.S. suspends federal agent who joined crowd outside Capitol during rampage, lawyer says

One of Ibrahim’s lawyers, Gretchen Gaspari, said DEA officials told Ibrahim that they were putting him on leave and suspending his security clearance “because of his presence on Jan. 6.”

She said Ibrahim, who was off duty but carrying his service weapon at the time, was part of the crowd outside the Capitol as Trump supporters stormed the building in a bid to stop Congress from certifying Democrat Joe Biden’s presidential election victory.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...KCN2AV2XC?il=0

First fed implicated.

SuburbanTurkey · 4th March 2021, 09:34 AM

My boy straight-up not having a good time. You hate to see it.

Quote:

!! WHOA: US Capitol defendant Richard Barnett -- man accused of putting feet on Pelosi desk - is *screaming* at attorneys and judge during his court hearing right now.

Upset he's been locked up "for a whole month"... "it's not fair"

Judge just recessed hearing for "5 mins"

https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/s...95714968920069

Shalamar · 4th March 2021, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

My boy straight-up not having a good time. You hate to see it.

https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/s...95714968920069

He's just being affected by evil liberal cancel culture. He should go free. /s

sphenisc · 4th March 2021, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

My boy straight-up not having a good time. You hate to see it.

https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/s...95714968920069

Fortunately the police rushed to restrain him five hours later.

Bob001 · 4th March 2021, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...KCN2AV2XC?il=0

First fed implicated.

From the link:

Quote:

Gaspari said Ibrahim was outside the Capitol because “it was a historic event.” She said he did not pass a set of metal barricades outside the building that were quickly overrun by the crowd.

Not defending the guy, but if he didn't actually cross the barriers, let alone enter the Capitol, he might not have done anything wrong legally.

SuburbanTurkey · 4th March 2021, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bob001

From the link:

Not defending the guy, but if he didn't actually cross the barriers, let alone enter the Capitol, he might not have done anything wrong legally.

I'm assuming a fed would have the good sense to not make a statement that incriminates himself.

Bob001 · 4th March 2021, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

I'm assuming a fed would have the good sense to not make a statement that incriminates himself.

Well, if he's lying there's a good chance that there's a video to prove it.

Dr. Keith · 4th March 2021, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by sphenisc

Fortunately the police rushed to restrain him five hours later.

Well done, again.

SuburbanTurkey · 4th March 2021, 10:44 AM

"Bullhorn Lady" Rachel Powell gets 8 count felony indictment, including weapons and violence charges. She was armed with a wooden pole and an ice axe and is also charged for breaking a window to enter the building.

https://beta.documentcloud.org/docum...4-rachelpowell

Belz... · 4th March 2021, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

If/when they find him I'm sure they can prosecute for the bear spray incident. More than that will really depend on the autopsy.

But if you shove someone down and they die from a brain injury, it doesn't matter that a thousand people before you pushed a person down and the person didn't die.

I'd charge every single person present there as accessories. Attacking the heart of your country's democracy should not deserve any mercy or quarter.

Skeptic Ginger · 4th March 2021, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Bob001

From the link:

Not defending the guy, but if he didn't actually cross the barriers, let alone enter the Capitol, he might not have done anything wrong legally.

He's also not charged with any crimes:

Quote:

A DEA spokeswoman declined to comment on Ibrahim’s suspension. He has not been charged with a crime.

His security clearance is an issue.

These agencies are trying to clean right-wing extremists from their ranks. This is as bad or worse than some of the suspensions/firings over FB posts.

And nothing like calling attention to yourself:

Quote:

Ibrahim worked in a DEA office in the Los Angeles suburbs. Gaspari said he had turned in his resignation before Jan. 6, but withdrew it before it took effect.

And: Federal Agent Sends His Capitol Pics To DEA Chat Group - Gets Suspended - Loses Gun & Badge

Delphic Oracle · 4th March 2021, 04:14 PM

Maj. Gen. William Walker did something a bit out of the ordinary. He didn't feign confusion over details of timing or make pitiful asides about technocratic details of bureaucratic procedure. He did the subtle equivalent of holding up a piece of paper with his boss's face on it with "talk to this guy (and his boss, too!)" under it.

Bob001 · Yesterday, 01:07 AM

Trump State Dept. appointee arrested for Capitol assault:

Quote:

Federico Klein was arrested Thursday in Virginia, an FBI spokesperson said.
....
The FBI says in court documents that Klein can be seen resisting officers, attempting to take items from them, and assaulting them with a riot shield. The documents allege he “violently shoved the shield into an officer’s body in an attempt to breach the police line."
....
The court documents say Klein was working at the State Department on Jan. 6, possessed top-secret security clearance and resigned Jan. 19.

Government records show Klein worked on Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign and was hired at the State Department in January 2017.

Government files show that at least into 2020, Klein was serving as a political appointee at the State Department as a special assistant in the Bureau of Western Hemisphere Affairs.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fo...id=mailsignout

Babbylonian · Yesterday, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by Bob001

Trump State Dept. appointee arrested for Capitol assault:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fo...id=mailsignout

Obviously, another Antifa plant.

Squeegee Beckenheim · Yesterday, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

My boy straight-up not having a good time. You hate to see it.

https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/s...95714968920069

Yeah, two things about this. One, it perfectly encapsulates the entitlement of people of a certain mindset. Two, calling a recess for 5 minutes seems like a mild reaction from the judge.

SuburbanTurkey · Yesterday, 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

Yeah, two things about this. One, it perfectly encapsulates the entitlement of people of a certain mindset. Two, calling a recess for 5 minutes seems like a mild reaction from the judge.

Courts as supposed to be impartial, but being a dick like this definitely puts a fat thumb on the scale in a negative way. This guy probably has a fair chance of getting released on bond pending trial, but having a freakout like this isn't going to help him one bit.

Armitage72 · Yesterday, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

Yeah, two things about this. One, it perfectly encapsulates the entitlement of people of a certain mindset. Two, calling a recess for 5 minutes seems like a mild reaction from the judge.

It reminds me of the woman who was filmed freaking out while being arrested, complaining that she was being treated like a black person.

Bob001 · Yesterday, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by Armitage72

It reminds me of the woman who was filmed freaking out while being arrested, complaining that she was being treated like a black person.

I suspect she didn't say "black person."

SezMe · Today, 10:28 PM

Is there a site devoted to keeping track of all the people arrested due to their involvement in Jan. 6? I've looked but haven't been successful.

surrogate · Today, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by SezMe

Is there a site devoted to keeping track of all the people arrested due to their involvement in Jan. 6? I've looked but haven't been successful.

There is this from USA Today. Not sure if it is what you are looking for.

27th February 2021, 08:20 AM	#3081
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 27,768	I think they really thought they were the in crowd, with special privilege and that their leader would affirm it. The political philosophy of their leaders is a mishmash of Pealing platitudes, comic book vigilantism, Randian exceptionalism and decaffeinated Thoreau, culminating in what the author Frank Wilhoit characterizes as the single tenet of conservatism: that "there must be an in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, and out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)

27th February 2021, 09:24 AM	#3083
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,430	Originally Posted by dann They expected to be rewarded when they had reinstated Trump, so they wanted to make it easy for the New Republican Order to identify the people who deserved medals and invitations to his inauguration. The simpler explanation is that most of them...just aren't that bright. Fools have been posting their own crime photos since at least back when Tom was everyone's friend - the cops routinely mocked them for snitching on themselves during press conferences.
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,430

27th February 2021, 10:57 AM	#3084
Distracted1 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 5,524	Originally Posted by dann They expected to be rewarded when they had reinstated Trump, so they wanted to make it easy for the New Republican Order to identify the people who deserved medals and invitations to his inauguration. https://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/ Teri Gross recently broadcast an interview on NPR with a photographer "embedded" with the rioters. Worth a listen, some interesting takes from the journalist- many not at all what one might expect. ETA The show from Feb. 25
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.

27th February 2021, 12:19 PM	#3085
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,439	Originally Posted by Distracted1 https://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/ Teri Gross recently broadcast an interview on NPR with a photographer "embedded" with the rioters. Worth a listen, some interesting takes from the journalist- many not at all what one might expect. ETA The show from Feb. 25 This one: https://www.wrvo.org/post/reporters-...lence#stream/0 Actual video here: https://www.newyorker.com/news/video...-capitol-siege (I know it may have been previously posted but . . . . )
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

27th February 2021, 06:32 PM	#3087
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,430	Been telling y'all for years: "Limited government" and "police can kill people on sight, based on their skin color" are entirely incompatible. The GOP is very specifically "limited government" for straight white christian men, especially wealthy ones.
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,430

27th February 2021, 08:24 AM	#3082
Resume Troublesome Passenger Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 18,849	Originally Posted by dann Don't! Too late

27th February 2021, 05:51 PM	#3086
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 24,996	Originally Posted by bruto I think they really thought they were the in crowd, with special privilege and that their leader would affirm it. The political philosophy of their leaders is a mishmash of Pealing platitudes, comic book vigilantism, Randian exceptionalism and decaffeinated Thoreau, culminating in what the author Frank Wilhoit characterizes as the single tenet of conservatism: that "there must be an in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, and out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." Although it's a common reference, I think most of today's "conservatives" are not, in fact, conservatives but hide behind that respectable label. Trump was/is no conservative. I'd guess damn few of the CPAC attendees are really conservative. In this, I think of conservatives as believing in fiscal restraint, personal responsibility, a cautious foreign policy, etc. In contrast, most outspoken GOPers are gung-ho on military might expressed around the world bolstered by a seemingly unlimited budget, federalism only to the extent the states restrict abortion as much as possible and restrict guns as little as possible. I suppose Mitt Romney is the closest Republican who stands by conservative values and he's persona non grata to Republicans from top leaders down to the mouth-breathers.

27th February 2021, 06:52 PM	#3088
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 27,768	Originally Posted by SezMe Although it's a common reference, I think most of today's "conservatives" are not, in fact, conservatives but hide behind that respectable label. Trump was/is no conservative. I'd guess damn few of the CPAC attendees are really conservative. In this, I think of conservatives as believing in fiscal restraint, personal responsibility, a cautious foreign policy, etc. In contrast, most outspoken GOPers are gung-ho on military might expressed around the world bolstered by a seemingly unlimited budget, federalism only to the extent the states restrict abortion as much as possible and restrict guns as little as possible. I suppose Mitt Romney is the closest Republican who stands by conservative values and he's persona non grata to Republicans from top leaders down to the mouth-breathers. I would agree, and would have used a different term, but I was quoting. I think the persons passing themselves off as conservative are radical reactionaries. e.t.a. I also agree with Mumbles. The supposed advocates of limited government do not want limited government at all. Their idea of "limited" government is that of dictators: Limited not in power but in complexity and cost.
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard) Last edited by bruto; 27th February 2021 at 06:57 PM.

27th February 2021, 07:18 PM	#3089
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,302	Originally Posted by SezMe Although it's a common reference, I think most of today's "conservatives" are not, in fact, conservatives but hide behind that respectable label. Trump was/is no conservative. I'd guess damn few of the CPAC attendees are really conservative. In this, I think of conservatives as believing in fiscal restraint, personal responsibility, a cautious foreign policy, etc. In contrast, most outspoken GOPers are gung-ho on military might expressed around the world bolstered by a seemingly unlimited budget, federalism only to the extent the states restrict abortion as much as possible and restrict guns as little as possible. I suppose Mitt Romney is the closest Republican who stands by conservative values and he's persona non grata to Republicans from top leaders down to the mouth-breathers. The so called "conservative" ideology has been spoiled almost from day one. This dates me, but whatever. The first politician who ran on this idea of limited government and truly embraced the "conservative" label was Barry Goldwater. Goldwater was hawkish and against almost all social programs. But wouldn't give a damn if you were atheist or gay or a minority. That was the individual's choice. A true conservative right up until 1980 would be pro-choice, have no problem with civil or gay rights. It was Reagan's alliance with the Christian right in 1980 that changed that. But Reagan himself didn't care or even like the alliance. Today conservatism is really some bizarre Christian nationalism. More akin to NAZIsm than it is true conservativism.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

1st March 2021, 05:25 AM	#3090
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,014	Quote: ederal investigators probing the death of a U.S. Capitol Police officer killed in the Jan. 6 riot have zeroed in on a suspect seen on video appearing to spray a chemical substance on the officer before he later collapsed and died, two people familiar with the matter told The Associated Press. The FBI has obtained video that shows the person spraying Brian Sicknick and other law enforcement officers during the Jan. 6 riot, the people said. But they cautioned that federal agents haven’t yet identified the suspect by name and the act hasn’t been directly tied to Sicknick’s death. https://apnews.com/article/capitol-s...9bcf8db70a4c3f Seems tenuous, but it'll be extremely funny if some CHUD catches a murder charge for spraying a cop with a less-lethal weapon. Imagine getting a life sentence for accidentally killing a cop with bear spray while your fellow CHUDs are getting lesser charges for beating them with flagpoles and fire extinguishers.
	__________________ Gobble gobble Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 1st March 2021 at 05:27 AM.

1st March 2021, 05:40 AM	#3091
dann Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 13,611	Originally Posted by acbytesla The so called "conservative" ideology has been spoiled almost from day one. This dates me, but whatever. The first politician who ran on this idea of limited government and truly embraced the "conservative" label was Barry Goldwater. Goldwater was hawkish and against almost all social programs. But wouldn't give a damn if you were atheist or gay or a minority. That was the individual's choice. A true conservative right up until 1980 would be pro-choice, have no problem with civil or gay rights. It was Reagan's alliance with the Christian right in 1980 that changed that. But Reagan himself didn't care or even like the alliance. Today conservatism is really some bizarre Christian nationalism. More akin to NAZIsm than it is true conservativism. Quote: Reelected in 1958, Goldwater opposed social welfare programs and continued to criticize the Supreme Court on its school integration stance. He voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964. King said of Goldwater’s voting record, “While not himself a racist, Mr. Goldwater articulates a philosophy which gives aid and comfort to the racists.” (King, 16 July 1964). Goldwater, Barry M. (Stanford University, The Martin Luther King, Jr. Research and Education Institute) That seems to encapsulate the difference between conservatives and Nazis.
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

3rd March 2021, 11:00 PM	#3092
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 12,641	Congress cancels Thursday sessions for fear of new attack on the Capitol. After all, it's supposed to be the day of Trump's inaugural. https://www.npr.org/2021/03/03/97331...ck-on-congress

3rd March 2021, 11:01 PM	#3093
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,681	Originally Posted by Bob001 Congress cancels Thursday sessions for fear of new attack on the Capitol. After all, it's supposed to be the day of Trump's inaugural. https://www.npr.org/2021/03/03/97331...ck-on-congress what more proof do you need?
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

4th March 2021, 01:42 AM	#3094
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,995	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey https://apnews.com/article/capitol-s...9bcf8db70a4c3f Seems tenuous, but it'll be extremely funny if some CHUD catches a murder charge for spraying a cop with a less-lethal weapon. Imagine getting a life sentence for accidentally killing a cop with bear spray while your fellow CHUDs are getting lesser charges for beating them with flagpoles and fire extinguishers. If/when they find him I'm sure they can prosecute for the bear spray incident. More than that will really depend on the autopsy. But if you shove someone down and they die from a brain injury, it doesn't matter that a thousand people before you pushed a person down and the person didn't die.
	Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 4th March 2021 at 01:43 AM.

4th March 2021, 05:11 AM	#3095
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,014	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger If/when they find him I'm sure they can prosecute for the bear spray incident. More than that will really depend on the autopsy. But if you shove someone down and they die from a brain injury, it doesn't matter that a thousand people before you pushed a person down and the person didn't die. Seems like a real longshot, but if this is what happens, it's like a real life example of someone rolling a critical failure in D&D.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

4th March 2021, 06:10 AM	#3096
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,014	Quote: U.S. suspends federal agent who joined crowd outside Capitol during rampage, lawyer says One of Ibrahim’s lawyers, Gretchen Gaspari, said DEA officials told Ibrahim that they were putting him on leave and suspending his security clearance “because of his presence on Jan. 6.” She said Ibrahim, who was off duty but carrying his service weapon at the time, was part of the crowd outside the Capitol as Trump supporters stormed the building in a bid to stop Congress from certifying Democrat Joe Biden’s presidential election victory. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...KCN2AV2XC?il=0 First fed implicated.
	__________________ Gobble gobble Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 4th March 2021 at 06:13 AM.

4th March 2021, 09:34 AM	#3097
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,014	My boy straight-up not having a good time. You hate to see it. Quote: !! WHOA: US Capitol defendant Richard Barnett -- man accused of putting feet on Pelosi desk - is screaming at attorneys and judge during his court hearing right now. Upset he's been locked up "for a whole month"... "it's not fair" Judge just recessed hearing for "5 mins" https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/s...95714968920069
	__________________ Gobble gobble

4th March 2021, 09:38 AM	#3098
Shalamar Dark Lord of the JREF Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Somewhere Else Posts: 4,966	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey My boy straight-up not having a good time. You hate to see it. https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/s...95714968920069 He's just being affected by evil liberal cancel culture. He should go free. /s
	__________________ "The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."

4th March 2021, 09:50 AM	#3099
sphenisc Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,387	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey My boy straight-up not having a good time. You hate to see it. https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/s...95714968920069 Fortunately the police rushed to restrain him five hours later.
sphenisc Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,387	__________________ "The cure for everything is salt water - tears, sweat or the sea." Isak Dinesen

4th March 2021, 09:55 AM	#3100
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 12,641	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...KCN2AV2XC?il=0 First fed implicated. From the link: Quote: Gaspari said Ibrahim was outside the Capitol because “it was a historic event.” She said he did not pass a set of metal barricades outside the building that were quickly overrun by the crowd. Not defending the guy, but if he didn't actually cross the barriers, let alone enter the Capitol, he might not have done anything wrong legally.

4th March 2021, 10:00 AM	#3101
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,014	Originally Posted by Bob001 From the link: Not defending the guy, but if he didn't actually cross the barriers, let alone enter the Capitol, he might not have done anything wrong legally. I'm assuming a fed would have the good sense to not make a statement that incriminates himself.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

4th March 2021, 10:18 AM	#3102
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 12,641	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey I'm assuming a fed would have the good sense to not make a statement that incriminates himself. Well, if he's lying there's a good chance that there's a video to prove it.

4th March 2021, 10:21 AM	#3103
Dr. Keith Not a doctor. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 22,574	Originally Posted by sphenisc Fortunately the police rushed to restrain him five hours later. Well done, again.
	__________________ Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.

4th March 2021, 10:44 AM	#3104
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,014	"Bullhorn Lady" Rachel Powell gets 8 count felony indictment, including weapons and violence charges. She was armed with a wooden pole and an ice axe and is also charged for breaking a window to enter the building. https://beta.documentcloud.org/docum...4-rachelpowell
	__________________ Gobble gobble

4th March 2021, 01:03 PM	#3105
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 91,441	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger If/when they find him I'm sure they can prosecute for the bear spray incident. More than that will really depend on the autopsy. But if you shove someone down and they die from a brain injury, it doesn't matter that a thousand people before you pushed a person down and the person didn't die. I'd charge every single person present there as accessories. Attacking the heart of your country's democracy should not deserve any mercy or quarter.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

4th March 2021, 01:25 PM	#3106
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,995	Originally Posted by Bob001 From the link: Not defending the guy, but if he didn't actually cross the barriers, let alone enter the Capitol, he might not have done anything wrong legally. He's also not charged with any crimes: Quote: A DEA spokeswoman declined to comment on Ibrahim’s suspension. He has not been charged with a crime. His security clearance is an issue. These agencies are trying to clean right-wing extremists from their ranks. This is as bad or worse than some of the suspensions/firings over FB posts. And nothing like calling attention to yourself: Quote: Ibrahim worked in a DEA office in the Los Angeles suburbs. Gaspari said he had turned in his resignation before Jan. 6, but withdrew it before it took effect. And: Federal Agent Sends His Capitol Pics To DEA Chat Group - Gets Suspended - Loses Gun & Badge
	Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 4th March 2021 at 01:30 PM.

4th March 2021, 04:14 PM	#3107
Delphic Oracle Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 5,367	Maj. Gen. William Walker did something a bit out of the ordinary. He didn't feign confusion over details of timing or make pitiful asides about technocratic details of bureaucratic procedure. He did the subtle equivalent of holding up a piece of paper with his boss's face on it with "talk to this guy (and his boss, too!)" under it.

Yesterday, 01:07 AM	#3108
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 12,641	Trump State Dept. appointee arrested for Capitol assault: Quote: Federico Klein was arrested Thursday in Virginia, an FBI spokesperson said. .... The FBI says in court documents that Klein can be seen resisting officers, attempting to take items from them, and assaulting them with a riot shield. The documents allege he “violently shoved the shield into an officer’s body in an attempt to breach the police line." .... The court documents say Klein was working at the State Department on Jan. 6, possessed top-secret security clearance and resigned Jan. 19. Government records show Klein worked on Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign and was hired at the State Department in January 2017. Government files show that at least into 2020, Klein was serving as a political appointee at the State Department as a special assistant in the Bureau of Western Hemisphere Affairs. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fo...id=mailsignout

Yesterday, 02:01 AM	#3109
Babbylonian Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 13,500	Originally Posted by Bob001 Trump State Dept. appointee arrested for Capitol assault: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fo...id=mailsignout Obviously, another Antifa plant.

Yesterday, 05:05 AM	#3110
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,254	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey My boy straight-up not having a good time. You hate to see it. https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/s...95714968920069 Yeah, two things about this. One, it perfectly encapsulates the entitlement of people of a certain mindset. Two, calling a recess for 5 minutes seems like a mild reaction from the judge.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

Yesterday, 05:06 AM	#3111
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,014	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim Yeah, two things about this. One, it perfectly encapsulates the entitlement of people of a certain mindset. Two, calling a recess for 5 minutes seems like a mild reaction from the judge. Courts as supposed to be impartial, but being a dick like this definitely puts a fat thumb on the scale in a negative way. This guy probably has a fair chance of getting released on bond pending trial, but having a freakout like this isn't going to help him one bit.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

Yesterday, 06:17 AM	#3112
Armitage72 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 5,263	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim Yeah, two things about this. One, it perfectly encapsulates the entitlement of people of a certain mindset. Two, calling a recess for 5 minutes seems like a mild reaction from the judge. It reminds me of the woman who was filmed freaking out while being arrested, complaining that she was being treated like a black person.

Yesterday, 09:52 PM	#3113
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 12,641	Originally Posted by Armitage72 It reminds me of the woman who was filmed freaking out while being arrested, complaining that she was being treated like a black person. I suspect she didn't say "black person."

Today, 10:28 PM	#3114
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 24,996	Is there a site devoted to keeping track of all the people arrested due to their involvement in Jan. 6? I've looked but haven't been successful.

Today, 10:31 PM	#3115
surrogate Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Somewhere within the Orion Arm (aka NJ, USA) Posts: 449	Originally Posted by SezMe Is there a site devoted to keeping track of all the people arrested due to their involvement in Jan. 6? I've looked but haven't been successful. There is this from USA Today. Not sure if it is what you are looking for.